2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (1 Viewer)

[Borden]

53-man roster projection from Buffalo Rumblings fan site:

QB: Taylor, Manuel, Cassel

RB: McCoy, K. Williams, Dixon, Brown

FB: Felton

WR: Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Goodwin, Easley, Hogan, Thigpen

TE: Clay, Mulligan, Gray

OL: Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Miller, Henderson, Urbik, Kouandjio, Richardson

DL: K.Williams, C.Bryant, R.Bryant, Charles

ER: M.Williams, J.Hughes, Lawson, Enemkpali, R.Johnson, Groves

LB: Bradham, P.Brown, Steward, Tarpley

CB: Gilmore, McKelvin, Darby, Robey, Brooks, Butler

S: A.Williams, Graham, D.Williams, Rambo

ST: Carpenter, Schmidt, Sanborn

some guys that may still make it (IMO): D.Thompson, C.Gragg, Carrington, Meeks, Gay

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2015/9/1/9238517/2015-buffalo-bills-53-man-roster-projection-preseason-week-4

They missed Dareus

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

They missed Dareus

good point. I think it's because he's suspended for the opener so that opens up an extra roster spot.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

People view Cassel as the "safe" option but he turns it over all the time.

This x100. I have no idea why people think he's this rock solid safe guy with a high floor. He sucks. "Hope we keep him just in case"...who cares if he has to play guess what, we're f***ed.

 

[Borden]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in response to my post. I'm talking about Fred Jackson, in a very specific situation.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

I don't even think the Seahawks have a RB on their roster.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in response to my post. I'm talking about Fred Jackson, in a very specific situation.

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

3rd or 4th best? really? based on what criteria?

 

[Steve Tasker]

People view Cassel as the "safe" option but he turns it over all the time.

This x100. I have no idea why people think he's this rock solid safe guy with a high floor. He sucks. "Hope we keep him just in case"...who cares if he has to play guess what, we're f***ed.

The turnovers thing is a big point for me that I feel people have glossed over. They see a guy like Cassel, journeyman QB, limited mobility, short passing game, and they think smart, safe, ball-control offense.

Over the last 4 seasons, combined, Cassel's TD/INT ratio is 30/34. Cassel had a very good season on a very good Patriots team in 2008 - 3,693 yards, 21/11 TD/INT - and another very good year with the Chiefs in 2010 - 3,116 yards, 27/7 TD/INT. In those two seasons, he was 20-10 as a starter. In the other 5 seasons of his career where he played meaningful minutes (ignoring 2005-2007 with NE), he's 13-28 as a starter with a 46/50 TD/INT ratio.

If those 2008 and 2010 seasons were a year or so ago, I'd chalk it up to maybe a fluke and be all for giving him another shot. But those are 4+ seasons away now, and he's shown himself to just not be a very good QB. Maybe he's got a spot on this team as a veteran backup but I'm glad he's not the starter.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

3rd or 4th best? really? based on what criteria?

Maybe best is the wrong word. Valuable or even string is probably more accurate.

Of course valuable is debatable, but this is how I think the Bills are it:

Brown is McCoy's backup because he most closely resembles McCoy. Karlos Williams and Dixon both are bigger short yardage type backs and both play special teams. They all make less money than Fred, are younger and bring something to the table that he doesn't. Fred is a mix of the two styles.

Of course they lost veteran leadership, a great receiver and great pass blocker, but I simply think he didn't fit any specific role that they envisioned.

 

[Borden]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in response to my post. I'm talking about Fred Jackson, in a very specific situation.

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

It's very relevant to the teams caliber and the pick up of Jackson in this case. Both teams are a defense based and run first offense with a high level starting running back. Both have (or will have next year) high end players that will need to get paid. Both teams are looking for Jackson to be a back up. The difference is that the successful team (that has a reputation for good roster moves) decides that they want to bring in Jackson. Where as the non-playoff team cuts him. So yes it's relevant because in similar situations the better team sees the value in him while the other team let's it slip away.I think that our difference is that I think Jackson has the same role on both teams. Probably the primary back up but maybe behind or sharing duties with oneach other guy (guessing Karlos and Turban).

 

[The Duff Man]

Rumblings are coming in that Cassel will be cut.

Once EJ actually...ahem....developed :coaching: Matt became an overpriced safety blanket they no longer needed.

I wonder how all the folks at WGR like crow, had to listen to the postgame all the way home where they were convinced Cassel would be named the starter. But....but....HE GOT ALL THE PRACTICE WITH THE ONES! Who could have seen this coming??

Maybe people who dont just parrot what the talking heads are saying.

Confirmation bias at its best....only acknowledge the facts that reinforce what you already believe.....EJ sucks.

 

[humpback]

Rumblings are coming in that Cassel will be cut.

Once EJ actually...ahem....developed :coaching: Matt became an overpriced safety blanket they no longer needed.

I wonder how all the folks at WGR like crow, had to listen to the postgame all the way home where they were convinced Cassel would be named the starter. But....but....HE GOT ALL THE PRACTICE WITH THE ONES! Who could have seen this coming??

Maybe people who dont just parrot what the talking heads are saying.

Confirmation bias at its best....only acknowledge the facts that reinforce what you already believe.....EJ sucks.

How does Taylor being named the starter, and Cassel (potentially) getting cut, prove that EJ doesn't suck?

 

[GroveDiesel]

So Fred is good enough for a team that went to back to back Super Bowl but not good enough for the team that has the longest playoffs draught? Don't give that "cap issues" bs either. Seattle has their own issues but they are going to try to make it work.

RB depth isn't even remotely correlated with caliber of team. Super Bowl teams generally don't obsess over and invest heavily in the most fungible position in sports like the Bills do.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say in response to my post. I'm talking about Fred Jackson, in a very specific situation.

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

It's very relevant to the teams caliber and the pick up of Jackson in this case. Both teams are a defense based and run first offense with a high level starting running back. Both have (or will have next year) high end players that will need to get paid. Both teams are looking for Jackson to be a back up. The difference is that the successful team (that has a reputation for good roster moves) decides that they want to bring in Jackson. Where as the non-playoff team cuts him. So yes it's relevant because in similar situations the better team sees the value in him while the other team let's it slip away.I think that our difference is that I think Jackson has the same role on both teams. Probably the primary back up but maybe behind or sharing duties with oneach other guy (guessing Karlos and Turban).

I suppose you think that Lynch and McCoy are similarly styled RBs too.

 

[The Duff Man]

Rumblings are coming in that Cassel will be cut.

Once EJ actually...ahem....developed :coaching: Matt became an overpriced safety blanket they no longer needed.

I wonder how all the folks at WGR like crow, had to listen to the postgame all the way home where they were convinced Cassel would be named the starter. But....but....HE GOT ALL THE PRACTICE WITH THE ONES! Who could have seen this coming??

Maybe people who dont just parrot what the talking heads are saying.

Confirmation bias at its best....only acknowledge the facts that reinforce what you already believe.....EJ sucks.

How does Taylor being named the starter, and Cassel (potentially) getting cut, prove that EJ doesn't suck?

We dont have proof one way or the other...which is why I find it comical that some were convinced he is a bust that the Bills were showcasing to trade because they couldnt understand why else he would start the third game.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Rumblings are coming in that Cassel will be cut.

Once EJ actually...ahem....developed :coaching: Matt became an overpriced safety blanket they no longer needed.

I wonder how all the folks at WGR like crow, had to listen to the postgame all the way home where they were convinced Cassel would be named the starter. But....but....HE GOT ALL THE PRACTICE WITH THE ONES! Who could have seen this coming??

Maybe people who dont just parrot what the talking heads are saying.

Confirmation bias at its best....only acknowledge the facts that reinforce what you already believe.....EJ sucks.

where are these rumblings? Rex said they would keep 3 QBs on the roster yesterday.

 

[humpback]

Rumblings are coming in that Cassel will be cut.

Once EJ actually...ahem....developed :coaching: Matt became an overpriced safety blanket they no longer needed.

I wonder how all the folks at WGR like crow, had to listen to the postgame all the way home where they were convinced Cassel would be named the starter. But....but....HE GOT ALL THE PRACTICE WITH THE ONES! Who could have seen this coming??

Maybe people who dont just parrot what the talking heads are saying.

Confirmation bias at its best....only acknowledge the facts that reinforce what you already believe.....EJ sucks.

How does Taylor being named the starter, and Cassel (potentially) getting cut, prove that EJ doesn't suck?

We dont have proof one way or the other...which is why I find it comical that some were convinced he is a bust that the Bills were showcasing to trade because they couldnt understand why else he would start the third game.

Again, not following your logic. A couple of good series in a preseason game doesn't mean he isn't a bust, and we don't know that they weren't showcasing to trade.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

@TBNbucky: @Fred22Jackson on GM Doug Whaley: "There’s only one person in that organization that I haven’t gotten honesty from, and that was him.”

 

[JFS171]

Maybe best is the wrong word. Valuable or even string is probably more accurate.

Of course valuable is debatable, but this is how I think the Bills are it:

Brown is McCoy's backup because he most closely resembles McCoy. Karlos Williams and Dixon both are bigger short yardage type backs and both play special teams. They all make less money than Fred, are younger and bring something to the table that he doesn't. Fred is a mix of the two styles.

Of course they lost veteran leadership, a great receiver and great pass blocker, but I simply think he didn't fit any specific role that they envisioned.

So you believe if McCoy goes down that Bryce Brown inherits his role? Isn't it pretty clear Karlos Williams is the number 2 guy?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Maybe best is the wrong word. Valuable or even string is probably more accurate.

Of course valuable is debatable, but this is how I think the Bills are it:

Brown is McCoy's backup because he most closely resembles McCoy. Karlos Williams and Dixon both are bigger short yardage type backs and both play special teams. They all make less money than Fred, are younger and bring something to the table that he doesn't. Fred is a mix of the two styles.

Of course they lost veteran leadership, a great receiver and great pass blocker, but I simply think he didn't fit any specific role that they envisioned.

So you believe if McCoy goes down that Bryce Brown inherits his role? Isn't it pretty clear Karlos Williams is the number 2 guy?

Yes, I think Brown becomes the main guy if McCoy is out. He's the most similar to McCoy.

I don't think it's all that clear who exactly is the #2 right now thanks to all the injuries. It was looking like it could be Karlos, but then he had surgery for whatever it was. Even if that's the case, I want to be clear that I'm differentiating between the #2 RB and the backup RB. I think it's possible that Williams or Dixon get the 2nd most carries while McCoy is healthy, but that Brown would become the starter if McCoy was out.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Maybe best is the wrong word. Valuable or even string is probably more accurate.

Of course valuable is debatable, but this is how I think the Bills are it:

Brown is McCoy's backup because he most closely resembles McCoy. Karlos Williams and Dixon both are bigger short yardage type backs and both play special teams. They all make less money than Fred, are younger and bring something to the table that he doesn't. Fred is a mix of the two styles.

Of course they lost veteran leadership, a great receiver and great pass blocker, but I simply think he didn't fit any specific role that they envisioned.

So you believe if McCoy goes down that Bryce Brown inherits his role? Isn't it pretty clear Karlos Williams is the number 2 guy?

nothing is that clear yet, but Brown is a more similar runner to McCoy.

Williams can't do the types of things that McCoy does. If McCoy were to be injured, I assume they would use a committee approach. With McCoy healthy though, I think Williams will probably be the RB who contributes the most each week just in terms of goalline/short yardage/change of pace type work.

 

[Sabertooth]

Does Bryce have much dynasty value?

 

[Steve Tasker]

@TBNbucky: @Fred22Jackson on GM Doug Whaley: "There’s only one person in that organization that I haven’t gotten honesty from, and that was him.”

Daaaaaamn

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

GMs haven't been kind to Fred.

Lynch, Spiller, Brown, McCoy, Williams etc.

Always trying to replace him.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

@ByTimGraham: Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

 

[flysack]

@ByTimGraham: Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

Wow.

It didn't seem like a Rex move, I'll say that. He's the type that likes guys for veteran leadership, as long as they can contribute as role players (much like Parcells, who had a whole recurring cast of these guys follow him around). That was Fred.

 

[drewd_21]

GM doing his job....wow!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

@ByTimGraham: Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

Ouch. I've given Whaley a lot of benefit of the doubt on some of his moves, and he has built a good roster, but I can't see why he would cut a guy like Jackson unless the coaching staff agreed. That's inexplicable given how trivial the cap implications are.

 

[Mortimer Ichabod]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

 

[Gottabesweet]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

It's all ridiculous. The Buffalo media blows everything out of the water. They are all hacks. It's pathetic there's a petition trying to bring him back with 10,000 signatures.

Whaley was doing his job, he shouldn't have to get Pegula's permission who has a hard-on for all his nostalgic past players. Someone other than Whaley wanted to cut him in March but somebody stepped in.

Football is a business, Bruce, Thurman and Andre all left with much more success. Fred will be on the wall in 5 years it'll be ok. Bills fans got butthurt when Moorman freaking left. People need to get over it. Whaley would be wise to announce a contract extension with Dareus next week before the opener both for PR/team. Use that money you saved by cutting Fred.

rant over.

 

[Gottabesweet]

People view Cassel as the "safe" option but he turns it over all the time.

This x100. I have no idea why people think he's this rock solid safe guy with a high floor. He sucks. "Hope we keep him just in case"...who cares if he has to play guess what, we're f***ed.

The turnovers thing is a big point for me that I feel people have glossed over. They see a guy like Cassel, journeyman QB, limited mobility, short passing game, and they think smart, safe, ball-control offense.

Over the last 4 seasons, combined, Cassel's TD/INT ratio is 30/34. Cassel had a very good season on a very good Patriots team in 2008 - 3,693 yards, 21/11 TD/INT - and another very good year with the Chiefs in 2010 - 3,116 yards, 27/7 TD/INT. In those two seasons, he was 20-10 as a starter. In the other 5 seasons of his career where he played meaningful minutes (ignoring 2005-2007 with NE), he's 13-28 as a starter with a 46/50 TD/INT ratio.

If those 2008 and 2010 seasons were a year or so ago, I'd chalk it up to maybe a fluke and be all for giving him another shot. But those are 4+ seasons away now, and he's shown himself to just not be a very good QB. Maybe he's got a spot on this team as a veteran backup but I'm glad he's not the starter.

I can't believe they are keeping all three, part of me wants Simms to dominate the Lions backups Thursday and have them thing long and hard about cutting Cassel to save that 4.75m

 

[Ilov80s]

@ByTimGraham: Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

Ouch. I've given Whaley a lot of benefit of the doubt on some of his moves, and he has built a good roster, but I can't see why he would cut a guy like Jackson unless the coaching staff agreed. That's inexplicable given how trivial the cap implications are.

Is there any chance Whaley did it as a favor to Jackson? He knew that he was eventually going to be on the bubble and likely cut, so Whaley did early to give Jackson a better chance to sign somewhere else?

 

[humpback]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

Stevie was traded, not cut. I don't remember there being nearly the backlash as there was over the Fred cut.

The Moorman thing was surprisingly a big deal, but I think it says a lot about the state of the franchise at the time that the most beloved player was the punter....

I agree with the rest of your comments though.

 

[humpback]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

So because Fred has been the leader for a while now and nothing has happened, leadership is over-rated?

Those situations were entirely different- neither of those guys was nearly the leader that Jackson was, they were both moved after yet another 6-10 season with no reason to be optimistic about the next one, Stevie had a much bigger contract that was part of it and that was a trade so they actually got something in return, etc.

There was so much turnover with this team this year, and expectations are higher than they've been in years, it would have been nice to have kept one of their captains, who had a modest salary, and who can still contribute some on the field.

 

[JFS171]

WGR 550 Buffalo's Sal Cappacio reports the Bills are "having internal debate" on whether or not to release QB Matt Cassel.

Cassel has had an up-and-down six months in Buffalo, going from struggling badly to having a so-so training camp and preseason. Meanwhile, Tyrod Taylor has lit Buffalo on fire with his legs and earned the starting job. E.J. Manuel has performed in the preseason with a 146.9 passer rating, giving him the edge over Cassel. Releasing Cassel would save the Bills $4.75 million against the cap.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

GM doing his job....wow!

Part of a GM's job is to work hand in hand with his Head Coach and provide players that both agree fit their vision for the team's success. Rex was already sabotaged by one GM during his brief career. Trust me in that you want a GM and HC that are on the same page.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm not outraged by Jackson being released -- a little sad, but its like that anytime your team releases a class act who's been around for a while. I also agree that Buffalo media seem to be overplaying this. If Rex and Whaley came to the conclusion that Jackson just did have enough left in the tank to justify another year over some of the other guys, well, that's football. Most guys don't get to retire on their own terms.

I just don't like the implication that he was pushed out by Whaley over Rex's objections. If that's what happened, then I would have a problem with that. Rex knows his locker room better than Whaley does.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

So because Fred has been the leader for a while now and nothing has happened, leadership is over-rated?

Those situations were entirely different- neither of those guys was nearly the leader that Jackson was, they were both moved after yet another 6-10 season with no reason to be optimistic about the next one, Stevie had a much bigger contract that was part of it and that was a trade so they actually got something in return, etc.

There was so much turnover with this team this year, and expectations are higher than they've been in years, it would have been nice to have kept one of their captains, who had a modest salary, and who can still contribute some on the field.

2.3M is actually a good amount to keep a backup RB when you have Karolos Williams, Boobie, Brown. Oh yeah and McCoy you are paying a boatload to. You have guys like Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn all will get big pay days and Bradham as well coming due.

It's business he's not needed. He's easily replaced on the field. Off the field and leadership they'll be fine with guys like Kyle, Wood, Mario, etc.

 

[FUBAR]

Yeah, and your position is silly. I love Fred, but he would have been Buffalo's 3rd or 4th best RB. He's quite clearly Seattle's 2nd best RB. How good the rest of the teams are is irrelevant.

3rd or 4th best? really? based on what criteria?

Maybe best is the wrong word. Valuable or even string is probably more accurate.

Of course valuable is debatable, but this is how I think the Bills are it:

Brown is McCoy's backup because he most closely resembles McCoy. Karlos Williams and Dixon both are bigger short yardage type backs and both play special teams. They all make less money than Fred, are younger and bring something to the table that he doesn't. Fred is a mix of the two styles.

Of course they lost veteran leadership, a great receiver and great pass blocker, but I simply think he didn't fit any specific role that they envisioned.

you're probably right but if a coaching staff can't envision a role for their best returning offensive player (yeah, Watkins would probably be better this year but he wasn't last year), they seem to be doing it wrong.

ETA: if it was a question of expected value added vs. price, that's understandable.

 

[humpback]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

So because Fred has been the leader for a while now and nothing has happened, leadership is over-rated?

Those situations were entirely different- neither of those guys was nearly the leader that Jackson was, they were both moved after yet another 6-10 season with no reason to be optimistic about the next one, Stevie had a much bigger contract that was part of it and that was a trade so they actually got something in return, etc.

There was so much turnover with this team this year, and expectations are higher than they've been in years, it would have been nice to have kept one of their captains, who had a modest salary, and who can still contribute some on the field.

2.3M is actually a good amount to keep a backup RB when you have Karolos Williams, Boobie, Brown. Oh yeah and McCoy you are paying a boatload to. You have guys like Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn all will get big pay days and Bradham as well coming due.

It's business he's not needed. He's easily replaced on the field. Off the field and leadership they'll be fine with guys like Kyle, Wood, Mario, etc.

I'm guessing it's one of if not the lowest salaries for an offensive captain in the NFL, and $2.3mil isn't going to make any difference when it comes to signing those other guys. Just because they overpaid guys like McCoy and Cassel doesn't mean they should compound things by shipping off a guy like Jackson, especially in the manner it reportedly went down.

No one is saying this is catastrophic by any stretch, but it's just another head-scratcher from an organization which doesn't inspire much confidence to begin with.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 1h1 hour ago

Whaley did speak with Terry and Kim Pegula before Fred Jackson was cut. Two sources tell me they were surprised w/decision but supported.

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 1h1 hour ago

Source w/direct knowledge of Jackson's release: "Going rogue doesn't mean Whaley didn't tell the owners before he did it."

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 1h1 hour ago

There are a lot of key people in football operations, coaching staff and administration who were left out.

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 1h1 hour ago

Whaley made a decision many important people didn't know was coming.

Tim Graham ‏@ByTimGraham 55m55 minutes ago

He deviated from the wishes of football ops and made the decision without any heads up.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Doug Farrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar Sep 1

Fred Jackson gave up no sacks, four hits and five hurries in 81 pass-blocking snaps last season. This is about more than Marshawn's buddy.

that seems pretty damn good to me. not sure why so many in here are quick to write him off as a useless player. I'd still take him for pass protection, receiving ability, and running between the tackles over Brown. That doesn't even account for his huge impact off the field.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Doug Farrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar Sep 1

Fred Jackson gave up no sacks, four hits and five hurries in 81 pass-blocking snaps last season. This is about more than Marshawn's buddy.

that seems pretty damn good to me. not sure why so many in here are quick to write him off as a useless player. I'd still take him for pass protection, receiving ability, and running between the tackles over Brown. That doesn't even account for his huge impact off the field.

Agreed, and he can still tote the ball as adequately as Boobie, at least. I hate that move. We'll have to see how it pans out.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Sal Capaccio ‏@SalSports 3h3 hours ago

Source tells me Whaley absolutely did talk to Pegulas before Fred was cut; it was some members of coaching staff not in agreement.

Sal Capaccio ‏@SalSports 3h3 hours ago

From same source: Pegulas signed off on the move after conversation with Whaley. Again, some coaches were not on board with the move.

 

[JFS171]

E.J. Manuel is expected to open the season as the Bills' No. 2 quarterback.

He's earned it with a phenomenal preseason. Manuel has completed 20-of-30 passes (66.7 percent) for 358 yards (11.9 YPA) and a 4:0 TD:INT ratio. GM Doug Whaley still "strongly supports" Manuel, whom Whaley picked 16th overall in 2013. Matt Cassel is expected to be released by Saturday afternoon.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Doug Farrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar Sep 1

Fred Jackson gave up no sacks, four hits and five hurries in 81 pass-blocking snaps last season. This is about more than Marshawn's buddy.

that seems pretty damn good to me. not sure why so many in here are quick to write him off as a useless player. I'd still take him for pass protection, receiving ability, and running between the tackles over Brown. That doesn't even account for his huge impact off the field.

Because they have Felton, Clay and others and all sorts of different formations with Roman. - He's a good pass blocker yes, but that can be schemed replaced and has with all the motion, and h-back sets this year. We aren't relying on the RB as much to stand and chip/block like Hackett did.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

So because Fred has been the leader for a while now and nothing has happened, leadership is over-rated?

Those situations were entirely different- neither of those guys was nearly the leader that Jackson was, they were both moved after yet another 6-10 season with no reason to be optimistic about the next one, Stevie had a much bigger contract that was part of it and that was a trade so they actually got something in return, etc.

There was so much turnover with this team this year, and expectations are higher than they've been in years, it would have been nice to have kept one of their captains, who had a modest salary, and who can still contribute some on the field.

2.3M is actually a good amount to keep a backup RB when you have Karolos Williams, Boobie, Brown. Oh yeah and McCoy you are paying a boatload to. You have guys like Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn all will get big pay days and Bradham as well coming due.

It's business he's not needed. He's easily replaced on the field. Off the field and leadership they'll be fine with guys like Kyle, Wood, Mario, etc.

I'm guessing it's one of if not the lowest salaries for an offensive captain in the NFL, and $2.3mil isn't going to make any difference when it comes to signing those other guys. Just because they overpaid guys like McCoy and Cassel doesn't mean they should compound things by shipping off a guy like Jackson, especially in the manner it reportedly went down.

No one is saying this is catastrophic by any stretch, but it's just another head-scratcher from an organization which doesn't inspire much confidence to begin with.

Disagree 2.3M is alot and they can carry it over on top of next years cap. So cutting Cassel potentially and Fred would save over 7M onto the cap next year. They will be pinching pennies to stay under the cap even with a rich owner who can shell out alot of GTD' money. Better to cut a guy a year soon, than later.

Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn IS apart of this 2.3M decision.

 

[humpback]

Jackson is 34. Not many 34 year old RBs are able to contribute at a high level. Betting on Fred Jackson to be the exception is bad business.

Ray Rice looked GREAT in his last full preseason before averaging 3.1 ypc at age 27.

I understand the love all Bills fans have for Fred..but he is still a 34 year old RB. 34...

I don't think people were expected Fred to contribute at a high level on the field.

Leadership is over-rated he's been the leader for awhile now, Nothing has happened, plenty of other likeable guys and the Bills have other guys that can pass protect just as well as Fred did for a back.

Felton, Harvin, Gray also all can play the H-back type roll if injury occured. Deep at the position.

They just need to PR stop this storm. It was bad when Stevie Johnson and Moorman got cut. Sign Dareus and all will be forgot.

So because Fred has been the leader for a while now and nothing has happened, leadership is over-rated?

Those situations were entirely different- neither of those guys was nearly the leader that Jackson was, they were both moved after yet another 6-10 season with no reason to be optimistic about the next one, Stevie had a much bigger contract that was part of it and that was a trade so they actually got something in return, etc.

There was so much turnover with this team this year, and expectations are higher than they've been in years, it would have been nice to have kept one of their captains, who had a modest salary, and who can still contribute some on the field.

2.3M is actually a good amount to keep a backup RB when you have Karolos Williams, Boobie, Brown. Oh yeah and McCoy you are paying a boatload to. You have guys like Gilmore, Dareus, Glenn all will get big pay days and Bradham as well coming due.

It's business he's not needed. He's easily replaced on the field. Off the field and leadership they'll be fine with guys like Kyle, Wood, Mario, etc.

I'm guessing it's one of if not the lowest salaries for an offensive captain in the NFL, and $2.3mil isn't going to make any difference when it comes to signing those other guys. Just because they overpaid guys like McCoy and Cassel doesn't mean they should compound things by shipping off a guy like Jackson, especially in the manner it reportedly went down.

No one is saying this is catastrophic by any stretch, but it's just another head-scratcher from an organization which doesn't inspire much confidence to begin with.

Disagree 2.3M is alot and they can carry it over on top of next years cap. So cutting Cassel potentially and Fred would save over 7M onto the cap next year. They will be pinching pennies to stay under the cap even with a rich owner who can shell out alot of GTD' money. Better to cut a guy a year soon, than later.

Dareus, Gilmore and Glenn IS apart of this 2.3M decision.

$2.3mil is a rounding error when you're talking about the amount of money those guys are going to get- there is no way that is going to be a deciding factor when it comes to whether or not they extend them. This is also ignoring the very real possibility that Fred would have restructured for less money if they had asked.

Penny wise, pound foolish.