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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

The Jets had a few bad drops on what should have been huge gains, plus a couple of big gainers called back due to penalty. 1 sack, zero picks, passing up and down the field at will. The defense sucked last night.

 
The way Roman called all those plays so that Tyrod missed easy throws to sustain drives was bullcrap, and clearly he deserved to be fired.  

 
Two different people in my office asked me this morning how I can stand to be a Bills fan.  And those people are both Vikings fans, FFS.  When Vikings fans start feeling sorry for you, there is a problem.  

 
IMO, the defense was a ####### disaster last night.  Vanilla rush packages, single coverage on WRs and got carved up.  Fitz had a good game as did the receivers, but you would've thought he was the best QB in the NFL from watching that game last night, not a journeyman who has never led a team to the playoffs.

 
Borden said:
Still the defense "wasn't that bad" is only in comparison to how awful their box score was. They were still really bad. 
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I wouldn't say they were really bad, but again, I seem to be in the minority. That said, do you think a better DC would have made a difference? I think they were just a little outmatched.

However, on the offensive side. I think it's 75% on the OC, and 25% on Tyrod. You simply can't have one of the best WRs in the game and only target him a few times. And the run game hasn't been called any better. It's been just as terrible. Let's run McCoy up the middle from the shotgut every single play...

 
Pretty sure debating how good Roman was is kind of pointless.  Don't think he was really fired for poor performance. 

Seems like Rex knows he's going to be fired sooner than later and is just trying to do anything to shake things up or MAYBE salvage something here.  Desperation.  Not an awful firing, not a good firing, just the first step in what is going to be a long year in Buffalo that will end in Rex being out of a job likely before the season ends.

 
I'm starting to suspect that being known as a Bills fan is starting to undermine my colleague's assessment of my own professional competence.  I think that for them, it's kind of like finding out that your boss is a flat-earther or believes in alien abductions or something.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I'm starting to suspect that being known as a Bills fan is starting to undermine my colleague's assessment of my own professional competence.  I think that for them, it's kind of like finding out that your boss is a flat-earther or believes in alien abductions or something.  
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Totally agree. I've become so ashamed to tell folks who I follow lately. Fortunately I live in Lions territory, so nobody can really throw stones.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
I wouldn't say they were really bad, but again, I seem to be in the minority. That said, do you think a better DC would have made a difference? I think they were just a little outmatched.

However, on the offensive side. I think it's 75% on the OC, and 25% on Tyrod. You simply can't have one of the best WRs in the game and only target him a few times. And the run game hasn't been called any better. It's been just as terrible. Let's run McCoy up the middle from the shotgut every single play...
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The "better DC" question is strange because I think Rex runs HIS defense regardless of his players skill sets. This will of course cause problems. That and arrogance are Rex's problems. I can't pick apart his play by play calls. He studies teams and is way better than me personally (obviously) but I do think there is better DCs out there. It's not just a matter of in game play calls. **Rex might actually be really good at this.** This isn't a scrub defense so they shouldn't look like they are. That's usually a sign of a coach misusing his players. His scheme and his game plan in general might be the problem. 

 
Plorfu said:
Schefter reporting the new OC will actually be Anthony Lynn.
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Correct, this is new OC.

flysack said:
Isn't Chris Palmer a one-time HC of the Browns?

If so, then yes, that sound you hear is me choking on my own disgust.
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Thank god it is NOT him. Palmer was once the OC when #1 QB pick Tim Couch busted. He then went on to be the OC for Houston when another #1 QB pick, David Carr, was sacked a record number of times and is still in the fetal position to this day.

 
ScottNorwood said:
yep
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I was actually trying to do the multi-quote thing, and couldn't cancel the post, so I tried just deleting the content and surprisingly it let me post that.

(It's kind of a pain you have to quote all posts and piece it together to quote a series of comments. Or am I still doing it wrong?)

 
thecatch said:
Roman wasn't good in SF either. Their team success just masked it. 
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Oh believe me, I'm not saying he shouldn't be fired. I'm just saying that when Greg Salas is your guy (Sammy I believe to be not 100% but 100% game planned for) and Tyrod is your QB and you still put up 31, maybe other heads need to roll first. 

 
higgins said:
Thank god it is NOT him. Palmer was once the OC when #1 QB pick Tim Couch busted. He then went on to be the OC for Houston when another #1 QB pick, David Carr, was sacked a record number of times and is still in the fetal position to this day.
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Lol

I picture Carr sitting in a fetal position in a padded cell rocking back and forth muttering "Domanick Davis or Domanick Williams. Domanick Davis or Domanick Williams..."

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
That actually wouldn't surprise me at all if he ends up being the next HC.

I wonder if they could do it before week 4...
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Yes! Actually probably not but yes! I'm excited. The Pats allowed him to interview for the Browns HC job during their playoff bye week. 

Give him full support too. "If you want to keep Whaley go ahead. If not that's fine too. You are in complete control and we are committed to you long term. Here's your giant contract. Let's do this." Don't go in and try to nickel and dime him or play games. Get it done and go all in. I'd have all the current people in place but give him total free reign. Everything from trainers to locker rooms to whatever. He can do it himself or hire whoever he wants to do it. 

 
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Grigs Allmoon said:
Right, the Jets caught a lot of big breaks at really opportune times. Tough to stop a team like that without your best player.
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To add to the above, the other thing to keep in mind is that the defense was on the field all game. Time of possession was almost 2:1. That D got gassed early.

 
That tends to happen when you give up a 15 play drive to open the game and allow them to score on every possession in the 1st half. They sucked last night, time to admit it and move on.

 
Rex Ryan - DT - Bills



The Sporting News' Alex Marvez reports the Bills' front office forced coach Rex Ryan to fire OC Greg Roman as a "sacrificial lamb" following Thursday night's embarrassing home loss to the Jets.
Per Marvez, the front office "leaned on" Rex to make a "significant change" in hopes of "appeasing a disgruntled fan base." Ryan couldn't fire himself -- and certainly wouldn't fire his brother Rob -- so he fired Roman, who took the Bills' offense from No. 26 in offensive DVOA in 2014 to No. 9 in 2015, and scored 24 points Thursday night against a tough Jets defense. Meanwhile, Rex's defense finished No. 24 in DVOA in 2015 after ranking No. 2 under Jim Schwartz in 2014, and coughed up 37 points at home to the Jets. Marvez also confirms Rex himself "is feeling the heat" following an 0-2 start. The Bills are set up to start 0-4 with the Cardinals and Patriots next on the schedule.

 
 
Source: Sporting News
Sep 16 - 3:58 PM


 
humpback said:
Rex Ryan - DT - Bills



The Sporting News' Alex Marvez reports the Bills' front office forced coach Rex Ryan to fire OC Greg Roman as a "sacrificial lamb" following Thursday night's embarrassing home loss to the Jets.
Per Marvez, the front office "leaned on" Rex to make a "significant change" in hopes of "appeasing a disgruntled fan base." Ryan couldn't fire himself -- and certainly wouldn't fire his brother Rob -- so he fired Roman, who took the Bills' offense from No. 26 in offensive DVOA in 2014 to No. 9 in 2015, and scored 24 points Thursday night against a tough Jets defense. Meanwhile, Rex's defense finished No. 24 in DVOA in 2015 after ranking No. 2 under Jim Schwartz in 2014, and coughed up 37 points at home to the Jets. Marvez also confirms Rex himself "is feeling the heat" following an 0-2 start. The Bills are set up to start 0-4 with the Cardinals and Patriots next on the schedule.

 
 
Source: Sporting News
Sep 16 - 3:58 PM
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Hiring Rex Ryan was the worst thing they've done since handing Fitz that massive contract.

They should have made Schwartz the HC. I'm not sure he would do much better, but defense wouldn't have declined and he may have found a good OC to fix the offense.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
To add to the above, the other thing to keep in mind is that the defense was on the field all game. Time of possession was almost 2:1. That D got gassed early.
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That's certainly partly on the offense, but the first Jets drive was like 8.5 minutes long thanks in large part to the terrible play of Gilmore. It's not like they were playing great and then got tired and fell apart. They sucked from the very beginning.

In Rex's defense, the Bills lost Ragland, Lawson and Dareus before the season even started. That's a huge kick in the balls to lose that much talent and almost 50% of your front 7 like that.

But I agree with the sentiment that Rex forces his scheme and refuses to adjust to his personnel. That's the hallmark of a mediocre coach at best.

 
GroveDiesel said:
That's certainly partly on the offense, but the first Jets drive was like 8.5 minutes long thanks in large part to the terrible play of Gilmore. It's not like they were playing great and then got tired and fell apart. They sucked from the very beginning.

In Rex's defense, the Bills lost Ragland, Lawson and Dareus before the season even started. That's a huge kick in the balls to lose that much talent and almost 50% of your front 7 like that.

But I agree with the sentiment that Rex forces his scheme and refuses to adjust to his personnel. That's the hallmark of a mediocre coach at best.
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Gilmore got his ### whooped all game. I was there last night and you could see the WRs pointing at Gilmore when they lined up on him so Fitz was aware of the matchup. They targeted him all night and he kept getting beat. He was late turning his head numerous times and other times just got flat out beat. On the first drive alone he gave up 3 first downs. Darby was beat a few times as well, but Gilmore is looking for that big contract for being a lockdown corner. All guys have bad games, but I don't remember the last time a "lock down" corner in his prime had a game this bad. 

Going into the game the players talked about how they play zone to confuse Fitz, but they were in man most of the game. The first drive they had them on 3rd & long several times and Gilmore gave up 3 of them. They forced 2 fumbles and couldn't recover them. It should've been no points but they ended with 3, and then things got better for the Jets after that. 

One thing that disgusts me is how little pressure the Bills get. Even last year there were maybe 2 or 3 games where they really got after the quarterback. I don't care about sacks. I like to see the QB being forced to get the ball off fast because of the pressure. Rex, with this exotic defense, hasn't been able to get #### for pressure since he's been here. Fitz had plenty of time to throw, especially on 3rd down last night. He can send 7 guys and still not get there, which is what blows my mind. While Schwartz rarely blitzed and just let his front 4 get after the QB and it worked. Rex sends extra guys and is less effective.

Ever since Marrone opted out, I was advocating for the team to promote Schwartz and hire a new OC. But they went with Rex, who prioritized scheme over personnel which resulted in the team no longer being a top 10 defense. Granted, the Bills wouldn't have had Tyrod or Incognito had Rex not been around I don't think, but all it would have done was given us an earlier draft pick this year, that we wouldn't have used on Shaq Lawson because we wouldn't have needed to rebuild the defense.

Right now the BIlls will be lucky to be 1-3 heading into week 5. I'm fully expecting the team to be 0-4. They lost 2 of the winnable games in a year where they were going to be hovering around .500. After an 0-4 start we should really put Cardale out there and see what happens. If Tyrod doesn't get his #### together then I imagine they will be opting out of his contract, especially with the $27m salary he's due to make in 2017.

 
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Being local to the Buffalo air-waves and my bestie being a long time Bills fan, as well as myself formerly being a beat reporter for another site, I have a pretty good view of the team, even though I am not a Bills booster, but a few things I should bring up.  First off, there were reports that the Bills were looking at dumping Roman during the off-season, why I'm not sure, since it seemed that the O was a pleasant surprise last year with the development of Tyrod.  It didn't happen then, but it did yesterday.  Even though Rex claims it was his choice, I kind of doubt it.  Sticking Rex's RB/assistant head coach Lynn to fill that role only puts Rex in the hot-seat even more. Roman was the highest paying OC in the NFL, why I'm not sure.  What I question is, are coaching staffs salaries all guaranteed? I would assume no, but..... 

Rex signed a 5 yr $25 mill contract 18 games ago, so if the Pegula's dump Rex tomorrow or at the end of the season, they'll be on the hook for the rest of that contract, assuming head coaches' contracts are fully guaranteed?  That might not still happen, no matter what the down and out/beat up fan base says or wants.  As for Roman, GM Whaley brought in some pieces to help the O, McCoy via a trade and Clay via free agency, to name a few, but Roman never worked Clay into the offense like his salary dictated.  Roman took a lot of heat for his play-calling, in particular using up too much time to pick a play.  A good example where I found his play calling very questionable was last weekend against Baltimore.  He has a skinny small QB in Tyrod with the ball on the 1 yd line and he does a QB Sneak for no gain? Huh????

As for Whaley, his drafts have been weak and risky and not paid off so I can see Whaley gone next.  I would assume Rex stays at least one more year, since his players love him, unless they just crap out to finish the year with a record like 4-12 or worse.  Sure he's a PITA and arrogant SOB often. 

 
It's hard to put a "grade" on Whaley, mostly because the organization is a mess and it's unclear who makes what decisions, but I think they need to clean house. Not necessarily right now, there is no saving this season anyway, but take their time and identify who they want to put their faith in to lead them in the future. Let's be honest, Buffalo isn't on the top of anyone's list, so they're going to have to do a good job selling it. I think the fact that they finally have stable ownership, and at least a decent amount of talent on the field, makes them less unattractive than they've been in a long time, but they're still probably going to have to take a leap of faith on a college coach or someone in the lower ranks on an NFL team. Identify who they want, take time making sure it's a good fit, give them full control and let them do their thing. I'm not sure if the Pegula's are willing to do that, but that's what needs to happen IMO.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
I don't think Whaley is going anywhere, unless bringing Rex in was 100% on him, and Pegula was against it, or he and Pegula really don't get along.

This team has more talent than any team we've seen in Buffalo in a long time.
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The Pegulas were directly involved in hiring Rex.  Whaley didn't make that decision on his own... It's not even clear whether he had much of a choice.  This was also around the time they were looking at bringing in another personnel guy (i.e., Bill Polian) to work above Whaley.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
Right, the Jets caught a lot of big breaks at really opportune times. Tough to stop a team like that without your best player.
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Come on now.  The Bills got their collective asses handed to them.  Breaks went both ways.  What if Robey-Coleman doesn't return that fumble for six?

The Bills were outcoached and outplayed.  The Jets were the better team Thursday night, by a lot.

 
I have no idea what to think with this team.

A couple of thoughts though. Last year they were 8-8 which is ok.

Rex tends to get some things right and some other things wrong this much we know.

I don't know if it was the defensive scheme was a problem vs the Jets or was it the WR's just flat out beat up on the Bills secondary? It also looked like Fitz had a ton of time and or confidence to just chuck the ball to his receivers and let them make plays.  The offense was not good in the game despite them scoring 24 points. They did not sustain any long drives and the only things that were positive was Taylor making plays as opposed to considering good offensive coordinating.  

Last week the offense let them down in a game they probably should have won. Roman seemed to struggle to get Sammy involved enough ever in his time as the coordinator; that is embarrassing from any coordinator who needed to make him the priority. Game 1 he did not do it and game 2 he did not do it. I get Watkins was slightly hurting this passed week but he was playing and looked adequate enough to make some plays.  

They lost to a good Jets team at home and lost to a who knows what type of Ravens team on the road.  I really have no idea who the Bills are. 

 
humpback said:
It's hard to put a "grade" on Whaley, mostly because the organization is a mess and it's unclear who makes what decisions, but I think they need to clean house. Not necessarily right now, there is no saving this season anyway, but take their time and identify who they want to put their faith in to lead them in the future. Let's be honest, Buffalo isn't on the top of anyone's list, so they're going to have to do a good job selling it. I think the fact that they finally have stable ownership, and at least a decent amount of talent on the field, makes them less unattractive than they've been in a long time, but they're still probably going to have to take a leap of faith on a college coach or someone in the lower ranks on an NFL team. Identify who they want, take time making sure it's a good fit, give them full control and let them do their thing. I'm not sure if the Pegula's are willing to do that, but that's what needs to happen IMO.
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Doesn't seem likely:

Ian RapoportVerified account‏@RapSheet

Bills owners Kim & Terry Pegula had private meetings with key offensive players Fri. before firing Greg Roman. Rex Ryan was not in the room

 
6:18 AM - 18 Sep 2016

 
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It's not a good thing because it shows that the decision-making/FO structure is absolutely ####ed from the very top. Trust me, as a Skins fan who dealt with these type of "Snyder meeting with players" stories all the way up until this current regime got things back on track.

Now maybe Rex is basically a lame duck and this isn't indicative of bigger organizational problems...but its still not good (other than maybe for short-term fantasy production) and it sets a really, really bad precedent with your star offensive players and the locker room in general. 

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
It's not a good thing because it shows that the decision-making/FO structure is absolutely ####ed from the very top. Trust me, as a Skins fan who dealt with these type of "Snyder meeting with players" stories all the way up until this current regime got things back on track.

Now maybe Rex is basically a lame duck and this isn't indicative of bigger organizational problems...but its still not good (other than maybe for short-term fantasy production) and it sets a really, really bad precedent with your star offensive players and the locker room in general. 
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I have absolutely no problem with it in this scenario. Should it become a trend, which I doubt it will, then yes it would be a problem.

 
It doesn't seem to me like Whaley has the control GMs need. 

I have never believed that hiring Rex was his call. And if it wasn't, there is also little he can do to get Roman fired for mishandling the offense. 

Other than go to the owner and get them to do it. 

In the off season they need to give one person control and hold them accountable, whether that is Whaley or someone else. 

 
The Duff Man said:
It doesn't seem to me like Whaley has the control GMs need. 

I have never believed that hiring Rex was his call. And if it wasn't, there is also little he can do to get Roman fired for mishandling the offense. 

Other than go to the owner and get them to do it. 

In the off season they need to give one person control and hold them accountable, whether that is Whaley or someone else. 
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GM's don't do the hiring/firing of assistant coaches.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
I have absolutely no problem with it in this scenario. Should it become a trend, which I doubt it will, then yes it would be a problem.
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You should have a huge problem with this. Owners and players should not be meeting behind a HC's back and making decisions on any level.

Rex is a #####, but he's deep in the NFL coaching brotherhood. This could easily effect your next head coaching search, who wants to coach under owners like this if they have any other options?

 
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