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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (2 Viewers)
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think that’s the answer. The organization is choosing their coach over an over-priced center.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I am in the minority, but would have zero issues with giving him a max as a fellow small market fan. He's only 23 and still has upside worth the risk.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Would love this if happens. Thought it could be the best scenario as Suns are limited in what they can take back. We get a much better rim protector and big with an outside game. Ayton hasn't been much better than anything the Suns have had the past several years, hasn't developed a shot from outside and a motor that runs MAYBE half the time.
He's nowhere near a max player. I've yet to hear anyone here in Phoenix say "We want Ayton back". Suns have been able to piece together his productive in the middle for year. More sad to see Javale as a limited minute big at a reasonable cost go than will be Ayton at what he's wanting.
Time to move on
Him quitting on the team Game 7 in the most important game of the year was a fitting end to his tenure in Phoenix. Really couldn't have been any more fitting.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Time to work on a Phx/Bkn/Ind/LAL mega fake trade.Would love this if happens. Thought it could be the best scenario as Suns are limited in what they can take back. We get a much better rim protector and big with an outside game. Ayton hasn't been much better than anything the Suns have had the past several years, hasn't developed a shot from outside and a motor that runs MAYBE half the time.
He's nowhere near a max player. I've yet to hear anyone here in Phoenix say "We want Ayton back". Suns have been able to piece together his productive in the middle for year. More sad to see Javale as a limited minute big at a reasonable cost go than will be Ayton at what he's wanting.
Time to move on
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Yeah he had another nice game yesterday. Swider keeps shooting lights out too. They're going to need to make room for these guys. Not sure how that happens. The Warriors already stole McClung from them this summer, looks like he'll be a contributor off the back of the bench.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Phx: AD & KD
BRKN: Bridges Westbrook and a bunch of 1s / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
IND: Quitter, Cam Johnson and a 1st or 2 / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
LAL: Turner / Kyrie / Hield / Crowder / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
LFG
mr. furley
Footballguy
https://www.reddit.com/?count=250&after=t3_vwfdcq
This is an attempt to have an "objective" answer for THIS CHALLENGE, inspired by this comment.
The biggest challenge for this is, what indicator should we use to evaluate player impact? I used this survey by HoopsHype with various NBA executives and analytics departments that sought to see what metric front offices value the most. I used EPM from DunksAndThrees.com, which was the 2nd in the list. I used it over DPM because I found the site easier to use than Darko.app, but this shouldn't be that much of a difference. With that out of the way, I used Basketball Reference to get the players that played major minutes (min. 900 minutes played, which weeded out Mike Muscala and Andre Iguodala, etc., as top 100 players). I then used Spotrac to gather all the contract details of the players that met the minimum amount of minutes played, and removed players that do not currently have a contract. I then added an arbitrary constraint that the maximum players for a position is 4 (otherwise the team will have 8 centers).
The criteria laid by the OP of the challenge is that it's a 14-man team with a maximum of 2 rookie contracts. I then take the liberty of shifting a player to another position depending on the resulting EPM (otherwise, we'd have a starter that has lower EPM than all of the reserves). The positions here are from Basketball Reference. The methodology is maximizing the total EPM while spending the salary cap without going over it. I used Excel OpenSolver, as the native Solver add-in by Excel only accepts 200 variable entries (281 qualifying players is above the maximum).
The result is this team, with 41.5 total EPM and a salary of $123,574,504. The rookie contracts are Darius Garland and Desmond Bane.
Starting 5:
PG: Darius Garland ($8,920,795): 4.1 EPM
SG: Dejounte Murray ($16,571,120): 3.6 EPM
SF/SG: Desmond Bane ($2,130,240): 3.6 EPM
PF/C: Robert Williams ($10,937,502): 3.6 EPM
Nikola Jokic ($33,047,804): 9.2 EPM
Bench:
Gary Payton II, SG ($8,300,000): 3.5 EPM
Jakob Poeltl, C ($9,398,148): 3.4 EPM
Isaiah Hartenstein, C ($7,804,878): 3.4 EPM
P.J. Tucker, PF ($10,490,000): 2.1 EPM
Jarred Vanderbilt, PF ($4,374,000): 1.7 EPM
Ricky Rubio, PG ($5,853,659): 1.3 EPM
Javonte Green, SF ($1,815,677): 1.2 EPM
Isaiah Roby, PF ($1,930,681): 0.5 EPM
Kenrich Williams, SF ($2,000,000): 0.3 EPM
This is an attempt to have an "objective" answer for THIS CHALLENGE, inspired by this comment.
The biggest challenge for this is, what indicator should we use to evaluate player impact? I used this survey by HoopsHype with various NBA executives and analytics departments that sought to see what metric front offices value the most. I used EPM from DunksAndThrees.com, which was the 2nd in the list. I used it over DPM because I found the site easier to use than Darko.app, but this shouldn't be that much of a difference. With that out of the way, I used Basketball Reference to get the players that played major minutes (min. 900 minutes played, which weeded out Mike Muscala and Andre Iguodala, etc., as top 100 players). I then used Spotrac to gather all the contract details of the players that met the minimum amount of minutes played, and removed players that do not currently have a contract. I then added an arbitrary constraint that the maximum players for a position is 4 (otherwise the team will have 8 centers).
The criteria laid by the OP of the challenge is that it's a 14-man team with a maximum of 2 rookie contracts. I then take the liberty of shifting a player to another position depending on the resulting EPM (otherwise, we'd have a starter that has lower EPM than all of the reserves). The positions here are from Basketball Reference. The methodology is maximizing the total EPM while spending the salary cap without going over it. I used Excel OpenSolver, as the native Solver add-in by Excel only accepts 200 variable entries (281 qualifying players is above the maximum).
The result is this team, with 41.5 total EPM and a salary of $123,574,504. The rookie contracts are Darius Garland and Desmond Bane.
Starting 5:
PG: Darius Garland ($8,920,795): 4.1 EPM
SG: Dejounte Murray ($16,571,120): 3.6 EPM
SF/SG: Desmond Bane ($2,130,240): 3.6 EPM
PF/C: Robert Williams ($10,937,502): 3.6 EPM
Nikola Jokic ($33,047,804): 9.2 EPMBench:
Gary Payton II, SG ($8,300,000): 3.5 EPM
Jakob Poeltl, C ($9,398,148): 3.4 EPM
Isaiah Hartenstein, C ($7,804,878): 3.4 EPM
P.J. Tucker, PF ($10,490,000): 2.1 EPM
Jarred Vanderbilt, PF ($4,374,000): 1.7 EPM
Ricky Rubio, PG ($5,853,659): 1.3 EPM
Javonte Green, SF ($1,815,677): 1.2 EPM
Isaiah Roby, PF ($1,930,681): 0.5 EPM
Kenrich Williams, SF ($2,000,000): 0.3 EPM
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Teams were built different back then IMO. Lots of contributors. The Bullets team that beat the Seattle team had 6 players average double digits on a team that only scored 110 per game. (Hayes, Dandridge, Grevey, Unseld, Henderson, Kupchak), plus two more guys that averaged over 9 ppg. Elvin Hayes was obviously the glue that held it all together with 21 ppg/13 rpg. Just a different style of ball in those 1960/70s teams for a lot of reasons (how they drafted, salary cap, refs, coaching)
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
He has been on the market for how long? Not a single team has offered him a deal or offered the max for a sign and trade. It is stupid for the Pacers or anyone to be offering the max.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Yeah, Phx and Ind would LOVE that deal - LA and Bkn not so much.Phx: AD & KD
BRKN: Bridges Westbrook and a bunch of 1s / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
IND: Quitter, Cam Johnson and a 1st or 2 / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
LAL: Turner / Kyrie / Hield / Crowder / any salary crap PHX needs to throw in
I was thinking something like:
Phx - KD
LA - Kyrie, Hield
Ind - Ayton, Westbrook, LA 1st
Bkn - Bridges, Cam Johnson, THT, Turner, 4 Phx 1sts
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
The downside to paying the max (or anywhere close to it) heavily outweighs the upside with Ayton.
If the guy's motor runs as cold as his does, as often as it does, at 23, w/o star money, a strike away from a 55 game suspension, #####ing/whining/complaining and quitting on a winning team......
I'd pay him Jonas/Capela non-elite big type money in that $15-20m/yr range. Anything above that, no thanks.
If the guy's motor runs as cold as his does, as often as it does, at 23, w/o star money, a strike away from a 55 game suspension, #####ing/whining/complaining and quitting on a winning team......
I'd pay him Jonas/Capela non-elite big type money in that $15-20m/yr range. Anything above that, no thanks.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
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identikit
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Ayton is in the league's substance abuse program. It might be called something else, but his next strike is a 55 game ban.
nirad3
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Ayton has already violated the NBA drug policy once and was suspended 25 games. Next offense is 55 games. 3rd is a min 2 year ban. (Edit: msudaisy beat me to it)
No one here wants him back. Would be nice to get a solid big in return. Paul is going to make any center relevant offensively. Getting a rim protector and one that is a threat on those high screens on the perimeter would be nice
No one here wants him back. Would be nice to get a solid big in return. Paul is going to make any center relevant offensively. Getting a rim protector and one that is a threat on those high screens on the perimeter would be nice
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Don’t forget the former MVP and triple double machine Westbrook (and one of their 1st for the trouble of taking on his salary).
Capella
Footballguy
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
The last year I did fantasy basketball, two of my top four picks were Ayton and John Collins the year they both were suspended for violating the substance abuse program. Good times.
mr. furley
Footballguy
this Horton-Tucker kid's name gets thrown about a lot as some highly valuable chip
can someone who follows the Lakers explain his long-term potential to me? i see he's only 21 and has three years in the league.
is he going to be a guy that's still kicking around at 36 having developed in to a steady lead guard or something?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I don't see it the few times I have watched the Lakers play. The other problem is a team taking him back is going to have to start talking extension with him after this year and they really don't know what he is yet.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't think he's anything special, but could be useful. He has long arms, is good around the basket on offense, is a decent passer. I'd be really surprised if he lasts that long. He didn't get utilized well last year, as the roster was a mess and they tried to fit him in places he didn't belong. Maybe Ham can get more out of him.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
He’s shown flashes of great upside as a finisher, distributor, and defender (freakish long arms). His problem is that those flashes come when he’s not with LeBron on the court since he needs the ball in his hands more and operates best in space. Add in Westbrook into the mix and Tucker took a step back last year since he didn’t have as much time in his comfort zone. Still one of the few guys with upside and a mid-sized contract (signed just last year), so that’s why he gets thrown into a lot of deals.
nirad3
Footballguy
Like msudaisy noted above, I don't see it either. He flashes some offensive smoothness but it's way too inconsistent. Why Pelinka thinks he's this ultra-valuable asset is beyond me.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It's not that Pelinka thinks he's an ultra valuable asset, as much as Pelinka knows he's pretty much the only remotely valuable asset (player wise) they have. Maybe someone would be interested in the youngsters they just picked up down the road, but right now Tucker is the only thing like a marketable player commodity on the roster.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
And one of the few (he, Nunn, Walker) that don’t have either a max or a min contract for trade purposes.
nirad3
Footballguy
Fair points all around. I sense much frustration for us Laker fans in '22-23. I'm still pretty bitter they went for Russ instead of Hield.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
TNT sucks less than all the other "assets" they have. And is young.
Gives them something....anything...to talk about
Gives them something....anything...to talk about
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Deal! Westbrook and THT plus two 1sts for Kyrie and Hield. Send it in to the Commish. You drive a hard bargain Mr. Johnson.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I never offered anything back. Two firsts s wand Westbrick für a conditional secondDeal! Westbrook and THT plus two 1sts for Kyrie and Hield. Send it in to the Commish. You drive a hard bargain Mr. Johnson.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You are also getting cap space next year and probably sending back a bad contract. There isn't a team in the league that can just take his deal and not send anything back.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
What would a KD coming back to OKC trade look like? Lord knows they have the assets.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Mitchell to the Knicks heating up again.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
EJ Liddell - torn ACL
Moe.
Footballguy
SGA makes 35 million/year or something like that so it wouldn’t be that hard to make it work.
I think it’s more likely they get involved in a multi-team deal and try to get Simmons. Obviously Durant doesn’t want to go to OKC so it won’t happen, but even if he did I think it’d be difficult to thread the needle from the Thunder’s perspective and keep enough for the team to be competitive but also satisfy Brooklyn’s demands. Similar position to what Toronto is dealing with.
the moops
Footballguy
Anytime you get a chance to blow your wad, in one offseason, on two 6 foot tall defensively challenged point guards, you just gotta go for it
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Can someone explain the mid-season tournament to me?
offdee
Footballguy
Guess they want to somewhat mimic what Soccer does, and add excitement to a long ### NBA season. Sounds like they want to also counter-act load management and ultimately players not giving an F anymore about a majority of the regular season. And for sure there is an additional revenue aspect here.
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The tournament has been in the works for years and was devised to give players more opportunities to win trophies and more competition to keep the season interesting for fans.
"As one of our general managers said at the meeting, there's very few things that you can win in the NBA. I mean, when you think about European soccer, for example, they have the FA Cup and they have other tournaments throughout the season," NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said in 2014. "I could imagine if we were to look at some sort of mid-season tournament I would imagine doing something in Vegas. This would be a terrific neutral site location."
While the event's timeframe would be more compressed than a European soccer league tournament, the NBA is looking to use those domestic tournaments as a model.
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The modern NBA fan is more likely to binge on a Netflix series over the weekend instead of following a network storyline for 22 episodes. So, of course, watching an 82-game slog seems longer and more tedious than ever. The NBA recognizes this shift in attitudes and has seen it trickle down to its own workforce. Players are mentally and physically checking out earlier in the year, load management has watered down the regular-season product, and Kyrie Irving seemingly dips out for a couple weeks of PTO every winter.
Even Commissioner Adam Silver thinks the NBA regular season sucks and is trying to throw some seasoning over it without ruining the recipe completely. In an interview with Yahoo Sports during the most recent All-Star weekend, Silver broached the idea of shortening the schedule permanently to incorporate a midseason tournament.
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The NBA is discussing a new In-Season Tournament that would begin as soon as the 2023-24 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. With the Play-In Tournament here to stay given its success, concepts are beginning to ramp up on another competitive event.
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