Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
that ones a head scratcher. looks like Raiders took a chance on him for a year at $2.5M and he showed enough for Jags to give him 3/30? for that guy? eesh. sorry, not eagles news, but glad we didn't sign that bum.
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2022 Philadelphia Eagles - Leave Gannon in Arizona and let’s run through the NFC again in 2023. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Noid
- Start date
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Also pretty pumped we didn’t tender Singleton too
DJackson10
Footballguy
Carolina his QB coach from his rookie year is there and Clemson is only 3 hrs from Bank of America Stadium. NO I have no idea. Doesn't matter because Eagles dropped their interest after their PI came back last year. I heard there's PROOF HE'S GUILTY but the DA didn't have enough undoubtedly to go through with a trial and guy a guilty verdict and jail time.
However what really concerns them is Watson apparently is taking no accountability here at all and trying to play himself as the victim. He's also not taking things seriously at all. HOU wants him gone. Multiple teams dropped interest in him because of all of this. Plus there's still 4 Civil suits left to go through.
If Watson had shown more accountability and handled things a lot better I could see a lot more teams interested but he chose to play the Victim rather then say I F up, I'm sorry, I'll let this be a learning experience etc.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I've gone on rants about JuJu being a fit but to save everyone time basically he's a great run blocker as a WR which we'll need being run first. He's young at 25, he's a hard nosed player when he's on and reminds me a lot of Hines Ward in doing the dirty work at WR. He's also not gonna let some of these cheap shot punk Defenders mess with his teammates. Plays on the Slot but can play Outside. I still expect us to draft another WR but JuJu is perfect for this offense.
The question becomes then do we have the QB to run it or will we be headed into 23 looking and wondering about an Upgrade again?
DJackson10
Footballguy
Pittsburgh is similar to Philly though in terms of football fans. I know neither city wants to admit it but we both expect the same from our football teams. Hard work blue collared teams who have a history of priding their organizations on Defense and great ownership. The fans expect hard work and will love you for going all out. JuJu comes with some DeSean Jackson Quirks but Juju Lays out Burfict after AB gets cheap shot and you can tell this guy has a mean/tough streak. The Pitt fans loved him after that play. I think JuJu is similar to Embiid. Let them be themselves to an extent as long as they know when it's game time it's time to work. I didn't want JuJu in the draft because of bad USC Nelson Agholar memories but since he became a Steeler Ive wanted him here ever since.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I love this move Reddick was drafted with the pick right before Barnett in that Draft in Philly. Reddick was a monster at Temple and wanted him then. ARZ didn't use him like Carolina who had some of the coaches from TU including Rhule HC. Reddick is I believe 2nd in the league with sacks in the last two yrs. He's going to fill the SLB and then on passing downs move to DE and rush the QB. I can see the Eagles possible using more 3-4 defense, 4-2-5 and other gimmicky packages for Sweat/Reddick mixing in Graham still and whoever we get in the draft hopefully. Jonathan Gannon has a new toy to play with and he's salivating at the mouth.
A guy like Reddick can change everything in this defensive scheme too.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I heard there were targets they wanted higher up but were not going to trade up to get them. This allows them now depending what they do rest in FA to go BPA on guys even more.
DJackson10
Footballguy
He has good game plan prep work. Like I said his schemes and prep are amazing. He learned from Vic Fangio or his schemes and such are similar to his what I heard. Eagles problem is the talent was pretty barren besides a few guys. With more talent Gannon can run his scheme more properly. Usually the first year is feeling everything out and seeing where guys are especially rebuilding teams. 2nd yrs is where you start to find out who's legit
DJackson10
Footballguy
They got him a nice Tackle and former NFC East guy too. in Scheirf.
LAC is spending the stupid money.
DJackson10
Footballguy
A little sad to see him go. Cool story and definitely easy to root for. Made it to the NFL and on a roster and recored 2 seasons of over 1OO sacks. Not many guys can say they did that even considering his lack of skills elsewhere on the field
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I have no doubt in my mind that Jalen Hurts is not the QB of the future. He lacks arm strength and accuracy.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Interesting, poor accuracy? He's probably at the bottom of the league for on target throws then?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Problem with using statistics, they can paint whatever picture you want them to.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Yes, that darned stat of "how often does your pass go where you want it" paints a misleading picture of accuracy.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I think many of us wish it was that simple and he really was that accurate lol. As always, the conversation is much more nuanced than that. When over 65% of your passes are under 10 yards (next to last in the league) you will seem accurate. Over 10 yards he was like 4th worst in the league. That’s before you get into a laundry list of other issues.
The good is that he did get better from 2020 to 2021. Sirianni did a great job of getting guys open (second best in the league IIRC) and this will be his first year in the same offense in like 5-6 years. Hoping that clears up some of the processing issues and allows him to get to a 2nd and 3rd read before running.
The million dollar question will be how much did the league figure Sirianni and Hurts out heading into ‘23? If we can’t scheme guys open for these short passes, can Hurts still succeed?
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babydemon90
Footballguy
I think his accuracy is fine. The issue isn't him not able to throw it where he wants, but him reading a defense and wanting to throw it at the right time to the right person. He's not inaccurate - he's slow on his reads.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
It’s better than it was but definitely not “fine” yet. Have to hope it keeps improving. We can win with him but he has a lot of areas to clean up as a passer.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Now he’s talking to Cleveland? What’s the connection there?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Terpman22
Footballguy
Somewhat true, but usually a statement made when its against a certain narrative, like Hurts isn't accurate. If it was way way down below 60% I'd tend to lean that way too. He is still developing too.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
You can throw a completed pass that isn't accurate. Case in point, when Hurts throws the slant, the WRs ALWAYS have to reach behind them. That isn't an accurate pass even if it's a completion.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I feel ya there. Also why I'm not a fan of nextgen stats as well, b/c a lot of time its subjective like "QBR"
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
This. I couldn't say it any more succinctly than this. I'm convinced his problem is slowing the game down, mentally, and seeing the field and the defense faster. He often seems to make the reads a half-beat too slow, or get tunnel vision and look to run. That is all pretty typical of a young QB, especially one who has relied on his athleticism to make plays.
I'm not convinced whether he can actually make that leap. He has so many great qualities, including natural leadership and work ethic. And I think he is smart enough and has a good football IQ. He doesn't have a Mike Vick or Randall cannon, but his arm is plenty good enough to be a starter. I definitely think it's a worthy risk giving him this year as a starter and watching his development.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Also, just to Djax the thread with some back to back posting:
From a Reuben Frank article last week.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
FWIW Cunningham, Vick and McNabb have a similar style to Hurts, however, Hurts would be considered the least talented by a large margin than those guys.
We can win with him and he can improve but the bar that’s been set is not a high one. He was pretty poor in a lot of ways as a passer. He’s not gonna shred anyone. He’s never gonna be the guy that gets us points with 20 seconds on the clock and that’s fine. We just need a good supporting cast. Add some more quality FA’s and nail this draft and we can surround him with a lot of talent.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
from PFR, strictly stats from 2021 without any narrative or bias:
- 432 pass attemps rank 21/32
- 265 completions rank 22/32
- 61.3% completion rate rank 26/32
- 3144 yards passing rank 21/32
- 16 TD's rank 23/32
- 9 INT rank 8/32, 2.1% of attempts good for rank 12/32
- 7.1 yards/attempt rank 15/32
- 11.9 yards/completion rank 5/32
- 87.2 passer rating for the season rank 22/32
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
i wanted to separate this comment from the stats above. i made a few observations during the season that too often his goes to his first read, which seems to be always deep down field, then look to run and then scramble. felt like there was hardly any second looks underneath, whether that's by design or him just not looking there or could be the receivers not getting open. so agreeing with you guys that his read progression is problem #1 and it shows in the stats, if the deep look is there, he's been generally money.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
He is given simple reads by design. He is a single read QB and was for all of last season. I have the benefit of watching his games through the All-22 view and he misses a TON, like a whole lot, of open guys on her field before running. Even if you don’t believe or trust what I’m saying there’s many who breakdown tape and see the same. Part of this could be he’s not good at processing the information or just has poor awareness as a passer. His lack of arm talent doesn’t all him to be late on reads either. A good example was the pick in the TB game where Smith was wide open. I’m willing to at least see if part of the late reads is him getting a second year of the same offense though. That will be telling.
He’s actually poor throwing over 10 yards as well. I don’t have it in front of me at the moment but his QBR on this throws was 4th from the bottom.
His path to success, in my opinion, is to keep running and buying time when he can. He was actually really good at extending plays and not getting hurt for a while. He has to keep getting stronger and more accurate as well across the board. Like another poster mentioned, he completes passes but they’re not the best throws.
The path to being replaced is if he doesn’t adjust much, if any, and continues to be single read. Teams will take away what he’s good at and he doesn’t have enough in the arsenal to change his stripes. 65% of passes under 10 yards can not be a thing this season.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Also, all the 20’s as a passer just isn’t competent either. If we want to speculate he can improve that’s fine but these are not numbers of a competent QB when you see who’s in these same discussions as far as ranks go.
Insein
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I'm with you on this. I'm just trying not to state the obvious here in terms of team thinking even though I know most feel the same way as us.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And those 20’s come against arguably the easiest schedule I can recall as well.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I've heard conflicting reports about this that he doesn't want to go there and HOU wants him in the NFC. It could be CLEV is interested and he's just hearing them out before he declines them
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
i wanted to be a team player here and not go the path of constantly beating that drum against Hurts, but completely agree with this observation and seen the same. i watched most of his games last year, he left a lot of yards on the field in so many games. some of that is in his control and we need to see improvements, but i'm of the camp he isn't the long term answer as of yet.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I like using them because it helps paint a more accurate picture of the player. But what I don't like is people using them like the holy grail. When I posted on the MLB boards this was when Analytics starting becoming the new phase in baseball. There were some on the forums and then journalist in the league using things like WAR and all as the holy grail of stats. You just can't use these analytics like that. They are there to help advance your understanding not be the determining factor.
PFF does create some controversy at times as sometimes their advanced stats don't match what you see with the eye test. I forget which player it was on the Eagles but their advanced grades had him graded better at his position then what you saw on the field. Sometimes that is true. however the player was eventually cut I think played another year and hasn't been heard from since in the league
DJackson10
Footballguy
How many of those throws were over 1O yards though? I think thats the issue people have with him.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I see its time for the monthly (weekly?) Hurts bashing. Is anyone claiming he should be the QB of the future beyond '22? I haven't seen it. But he will be the QB in '22. He just is. Maybe he'll improve, maybe not. But man, some people just can't seem to pass on an opportunity to bash the guy.
Not sure why this is coming up now - again. We missed out on Watson/Wilson/Rodgers. Hurts will be our '22 QB. Our QB in '23 - ????? Jeez.
Not sure why this is coming up now - again. We missed out on Watson/Wilson/Rodgers. Hurts will be our '22 QB. Our QB in '23 - ????? Jeez.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And even with that said, I’m not out on him completely. I do think having a second year in the offense is bigger than people realize. He may be used the way he is because he hasn’t had the same offense in 5-6 years. I love our talent on the OL and the weapons appear to be growing as well. The running game is also pretty good. The offense can still succeed with him though. Next year is a very big season for him and Sirianni. I guess the team in general actually. Gannon also has to show he can get the scheme going as well.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
fair comment, but it's not bashing. i think most of us who have been critical of him also root for him, but doesn't mean we can't talk about where we think he is in his game.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
It’s no different than bashing Fletcher Cox, our LBer, Gannon etc. we beat the dead horse this time of year lol
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Yep. None of them are above the criticism and as much as I can’t stand players I want them to do well. If Brandon Graham comes back next year he’ll be a good example of that lol. I’ll always love him but I know he’s done as a player so it’s a catch 22
DJackson10
Footballguy
We forgot to add all the games they had where he put up garbage stats at the end so his numbers looked better though. I think we need take that into consideration here and that worries me. Could Hurts win in the league? probably but he needs everything going right for him because he's not going to improvise himself as he doesn't have those skillsets. That might be my biggest problem with a QB like Hurts. He needs everything going right for him to succeed. When it works it Keeps QB cost down but at what point do you say screw it and upgrade?
Thankfully I think the team is going to use this year to evaluate and then if he's not the guy they will move on after the season.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
That’s always a tough decision. There’s more “system QB’s” than not if you look around the league. Look at the lengths Minnesota has gone to to keep theirs. It’s a tough spot to be in but in for sure.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
We also did not tender Boston Scott as well
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Eagles agreed to terms on 1-year contracts with WR Greg Ward and DB Andre Chachere.
Also tendered OL Nate Herbig.
Also tendered OL Nate Herbig.
DJackson10
Footballguy
This tells me they are getting another RB either in FA or Bringing Howard Back. I would say higher chance of a Sanders trade had Scott been tendered. Can see Scott coming back on a lower deal as well.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Marcus Williams agrees to 5-year, $70M deal with Ravens
Various Eagles beat guys and some others saying Eagles offered a similar deal to Williams
Various Eagles beat guys and some others saying Eagles offered a similar deal to Williams
JetMaxx
Footballguy
I’m a big Hurts fan and love when players have his talent, work ethic, leadership and accountability. But he is a limited player. Average at best arm strength, average at best accuracy and is below average at seeing the field and throwing with anticipation. A major gripe is that his weaknesses do a big time disservice to Devonta Smith. Smith needs a QB that excels at those qualities in order to maximize his talent and productivity.
babydemon90
Footballguy
On the stat " Intended air yards per pass attempt - Average depth of target, whether completed or not"DJackson10 said:
Jalen Hurts ranked #4 in the league (9.0).
He drops a bit in " Completed air yards per completion - yards the ball traveled in the air past the line of scrimmage prior to a completion". In that he's down at #9 (6.3).
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