2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (8 Viewers)

[3C's]

I'd love to see the looks on some of your faces the day Tomlin gets elected to the Hall of Fame. Yes, he will make it. The media, who votes on it, absolutely loves the guy.

Losing games to bad teams is what he has done for years, but looking at this year on a macro level, 7-6 with the horrible QB play they have had is still impressive.

Chuck Knoll was a HOF coach but there came a point where it was time for him to go.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

We really lack leadership on offense in the huddle too. Lots of young guys. Cole tries to lead but he sucks too bad.

 

[Blick]

Drafting KP was going to either put the franchise back on track or set it back years. Unfortunately, it looks like the latter.

I'm not going to defend Tomlin. In fact, I'm finally coming around to the idea of replacing him. But without average QB play, every mistake and bad decision gets magnified. I think that's we are now.

 

[Dizzy]

I'd love to see the looks on some of your faces the day Tomlin gets elected to the Hall of Fame. Yes, he will make it. The media, who votes on it, absolutely loves the guy.

Losing games to bad teams is what he has done for years, but looking at this year on a macro level, 7-6 with the horrible QB play they have had is still impressive.

Who gives a **** about the Hall of Fame? Nobody pays attention to that crap. I'll tell you who is NOT going into the HOF... any Steelers GM associated with this current roster.

I miss Big Ben.

Finally. Some honesty.

 

[kupcho1]

Steelers put up 18 points to a team averaging under 5 points a game the last 3 games and 3.5 the last two games, the offense did its job because 18 points 'should' have been enough.
Pats jumped out to a big lead and that was the ball game.

This guy gets it.
Steeler fans love beating up on the offense, and not without good reason. But why the defense continues to get a pass after giving up 21 to the Pats and 24 to the Cardinals (including a 99 yard TD drive) is beyond me.

The most interesting thing about last night's game is that both fan bases should be disappointed. Hopefully the Pats pick is the one after the player that could do them the most good. That would be fantastic.

I think the best reason for getting rid of Tomlin (trade, maybe?) is that we can finally tear it down and build it back up, rather than worry about a non-losing streak.

 

[kupcho1]

I'd love to see the looks on some of your faces the day Tomlin gets elected to the Hall of Fame. Yes, he will make it. The media, who votes on it, absolutely loves the guy.

I'm fine with that.
Andy Reid will make the HOF and he got run out of Philadelphia.
McCarthy may make the HOF and he got run out of Green Bay.

It happens.

 

[Max55]

That 4th and 2 was as bad as 4th and goal on sunday. Wtf??

And the lack of targets for Pickens is alarming. But the line seems to get pushed backwards a lot causing some poor decisions. Mitch made some very questionable throws that should have been picked. Start Rudy.

Was driving and just listening to local sports talk radio. One of the guys said he watched Pickens “a lot” during the game last night. And he could tell almost every time by the way he lined up, his body language, etc if the play might involve him or not.

Pickens hasn’t accomplished enough yet to be a diva.

 

[Max55]

I'd love to see the looks on some of your faces the day Tomlin gets elected to the Hall of Fame. Yes, he will make it. The media, who votes on it, absolutely loves the guy.

Losing games to bad teams is what he has done for years, but looking at this year on a macro level, 7-6 with the horrible QB play they have had is still impressive.

So what? He should be in the hall of fame.

But it’s ok for him to get into the hall of fame and acknowledging a need for a head coaching change. They can be mutually exclusive events.

Just ask Belichick.

 

[3C's]

Steelers put up 18 points to a team averaging under 5 points a game the last 3 games and 3.5 the last two games, the offense did its job because 18 points 'should' have been enough.
Pats jumped out to a big lead and that was the ball game.

This guy gets it.
Steeler fans love beating up on the offense, and not without good reason. But why the defense continues to get a pass after giving up 21 to the Pats and 24 to the Cardinals (including a 99 yard TD drive) is beyond me.

The most interesting thing about last night's game is that both fan bases should be disappointed. Hopefully the Pats pick is the one after the player that could do them the most good. That would be fantastic.

I think the best reason for getting rid of Tomlin (trade, maybe?) is that we can finally tear it down and build it back up, rather than worry about a non-losing streak.

And from that point of view, what is Tomlin's supposed forte? Defense. And supposedly he has his thumb on the Def/DC so if the defense is to blame and those things are true about Tomlin and the defense then he needs his share of the blame for the sub-standard defensive performance.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

That 4th and 2 was as bad as 4th and goal on sunday. Wtf??

And the lack of targets for Pickens is alarming. But the line seems to get pushed backwards a lot causing some poor decisions. Mitch made some very questionable throws that should have been picked. Start Rudy.

Was driving and just listening to local sports talk radio. One of the guys said he watched Pickens “a lot” during the game last night. And he could tell almost every time by the way he lined up, his body language, etc if the play might involve him or not.

Pickens hasn’t accomplished enough yet to be a diva.

How can you tell the difference? It seems that every play doesn't involve him.

You are right that he hasn't earned it yet -- but he also hasn't been given enough opportunities. There is a serious lack of leadership on offense. The coaching staff is pretty bad. But firing Tomlin will make it worse though, as I have 0 confidence in Art Rooney. Players do want to play for Tomlin. If he is gone, nobody is coming to play for the cheap old man owner who meddles too much.

 

[Max55]

That 4th and 2 was as bad as 4th and goal on sunday. Wtf??

And the lack of targets for Pickens is alarming. But the line seems to get pushed backwards a lot causing some poor decisions. Mitch made some very questionable throws that should have been picked. Start Rudy.

Was driving and just listening to local sports talk radio. One of the guys said he watched Pickens “a lot” during the game last night. And he could tell almost every time by the way he lined up, his body language, etc if the play might involve him or not.

Pickens hasn’t accomplished enough yet to be a diva.

How can you tell the difference? It seems that every play doesn't involve him.

You are right that he hasn't earned it yet -- but he also have been given enough opportunities. There is a serious lack of leadership on offense. The coaching staff is pretty bad. But firing Tomlin will make it worse though, as I have 0 confidence in Art Rooney. Players do want to play for Tomlin. If he is gone, nobody is coming to play for the cheap old man owner who meddles too much.

I personally probably can’t tell the difference.

But I believe Dorin on 93.7. He did play in the NFL and seems to know what he’s talking about.

 

[Dizzy]

How's that QB class of 2025 looking? PIT already won too many games this year to draft a possible franchise QB.

This off-season... maybe fire Tomlin, hire Hackett, go 1-16, draft Arch Manning, bring in Frank Reich as the OC... win it all in 2028.

Man, this GM stuff is easy!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

How's that QB class of 2025 looking? PIT already won too many games this year to draft a possible franchise QB.

This off-season... maybe fire Tomlin, hire Hackett, go 1-16, draft Arch Manning, bring in Frank Reich as the OC... win it all in 2028.

Man, this GM stuff is easy!

QB class this season is deep. But there are a lot of holes to fill too. But they should not let KP preclude the drafting of a QB.

Reich or McDaniels as OC/Asst. HC would be a good move.

Heyward and Fitz both are intimating that certain players are not putting in the effort or work to properly execute and need benched . . . . .

 

[crushedspirit]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he should actually send Cowher and Ben to accept on his behalf.

 

[fred_1_15301]

A 6 year old would have drawn up a better play than 4th and 2. I’m typing that with a complete straight face.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

A 6 year old would have drawn up a better play than 4th and 2. I’m typing that with a complete straight face.

Tomlin said that they wanted to be aggressive, and that the deep route(s) were the primary play call too. Mitch said the safety was favoring Pickens, so he threw to DJ and that it was not a great throw.

We have no QB. We have no Center. We have no leadership on O.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

He should have another ring though. Mendenhall fumbled away the game against GB.

 

[fred_1_15301]

A 6 year old would have drawn up a better play than 4th and 2. I’m typing that with a complete straight face.

Tomlin said that they wanted to be aggressive, and that the deep route(s) were the primary play call too. Mitch said the safety was favoring Pickens, so he threw to DJ and that it was not a great throw.

We have no QB. We have no Center. We have no leadership on O.

There is nothing Tomlin can say to justify that call with that QB. It was a blunder. Period. But at the end of the day, the loss was probably a better outcome for the team. It’s just that I don’t have faith in their ability to hit on the draft.

 

[crushedspirit]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

Anyone who thinks they are similar just look over this fact of which one built a team from the ground up, and which was handed the keys to a stacked team with top assistants in place.

Makes me wonder if they're too young to remember, or don't like facts getting in the way of being a Toimlin fan.

 

[steelcityman]

They hit on the draft as much as any other team. Khan and Weidle know what they are doing. Thats the only part I feel good about. I'd go as far as to say trade assets for picks, and that means Tomlin, Johnson, Najee, Friermuth, Minkah and maybe even Watt. This team is really broken. 1-2 pieces via the draft wont fix it. They need 8-10 new pieces(rebuild). And new coaches up and down the coaching staff.
What scares me is them hitting another grand slam on the coaching hire. Noll, Cowher and Tomlin, whats that, 55+ years, 3 coaches and all won super bowl. The chance of a real loser coach is kind of real.

 

[fred_1_15301]

The Steelers can’t even beat the dinosaur version of BB. He should take over for Rooney because he truly owns us.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

He should have another ring though. Mendenhall fumbled away the game against GB.

Maybe. That 2010 defense was great, but after that fumble, they gave up another drive and a 3rd TD pass from Rodgers. IMO A slow start in that game killed them, not Mendenhall's fumble.

 

[crushedspirit]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

He should have another ring though. Mendenhall fumbled away the game against GB.

Maybe. That 2010 defense was great, but after that fumble, they gave up another drive and a 3rd TD pass from Rodgers. IMO A slow start in that game killed them, not Mendenhall's fumble.

They were chasing the entire game, and Rodgers did what most good QBs do against the vaunted Steeler D come playoff time.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

Is Johnson a sneaky play? Believe Mitch threw the TD to him last game. Not sure how many targets he gave him or was it just that one since I didn't watch the game. Either way good sign to come for Johnson getting more looks / looks in the redzone?

Would stay away from all Steelers..

This advice is unchanged, and as correct today as it was back in July.

So Johnson wasn't a sneaky play because Mitch threw him a TD prior game and yesterday.

 

[steelers1080]

Rumors that Kenny was on his way to getting benched before Canada was fired. Not sure if that means he still has a short leash, he was moving the ball much better against the Bengals, but still no scoring and missing wide open receivers/RBs/TEs. Just not seeing them at all.

We might have seen Mitch this week even if Kenny didn't get hurt last week. And there must be something behind the scenes with Mason that we just don't know about. Or, they don't think he can survive behind our O-line.

I still think Kenny could develop into a decent QB, like in the 10-16 range, but I'm a bit more convinced that the Steelers might make a move at QB this offseason.

Rooney has a thing for KP apparently. He is who dictated they draft him. He apparently went against Tomlin who was leaning towards benching KP in lieu of firing Canada. So, unless Mitch shows he is infinitely better than KP in executing the offense, I think we are stuck with KP and have kids gloves on (small ones) in our handling of him. Which means not drafting a QB in rounds 1-3 in this deep QB draft. So we are screwed.

I do think a new OC will help Kenny, but it feels like he's got a cap due to his vision of the field and ability to be decisive. The ball should be out before the WR turns around, not thrown after they're open and the defender is closing.

If Rooney butts in and prevents them from getting another QB that would be a shame, but I don't think we're going to draft top 10 in the next 3 years purely because of our defense.

I heard rumblings about trading for Justin Fields if they take Caleb Williams. Has anyone been following Fields since college? I have only been hearing about how terrible the Bears are and how much Fields fumbles. He is definitely more athletic, but is he "fixable"?

I think that is a very real possibility. According to my friend, there was a deal in place to move up and draft Fields had he fallen to the Chargers.

Rooney apparently inserts himself a good bit. I have said this before, but my understanding is that the Steelers had finished their whole war room/draft rankings and did not have KP with a first round rating (they did have Pickens and Leal with 1st round grades). KP was their top rated QB, but there was no intent to draft him in the first round until Haskins died and Rooney said "We need to draft a QB in the first round."

Glad we didn't take Leal in the 1st with how that's worked out. Feels like he's still underutilized. Overall not loving the job Austin is doing. Seeing Watts and Loudermilk on the field and Benton on the sidelines doesn't seem like the most effective use of personnel...

Curious what you see Austin doing wrong. On the play where KP got hurt, Cal was perfect wide open for a TD before Kenny gave up on the primary route and ran the ball. I recall seeing him trot out on the field in a goal to go situation thinking, this play has to be designed for Cal either primary or misdirection for a run.

Without checking stats, Austin has been sure handed and IMO under utilized as a speed threat. Kid has good hands, not just a track guy.

Haha, sorry for the confusion, I mean our DC Austin. I don't think his schemes/play calling puts us in the best position to succeed play after play. Also, per Minkah's comments after the game not sure if everyone is being coached up well enough.

And his delay in using rookies when they're putting better tape out there is old-school thinking that holds us back.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Picking KP really did set the team back 5 years and is causing the team to waste big time talent on D. That was my worry when he was drafted and I wish I was wrong.

 

[steelers1080]

A 6 year old would have drawn up a better play than 4th and 2. I’m typing that with a complete straight face.

I mean, 2 guys were open underneath. It wasn't the play call that was the issue. Mitch just heaved it for 0 reason. Diontae was drawing away 2 defenders, that was his role that play, the pass should have never gone his way.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

A 6 year old would have drawn up a better play than 4th and 2. I’m typing that with a complete straight face.

I mean, 2 guys were open underneath. It wasn't the play call that was the issue. Mitch just heaved it for 0 reason. Diontae was drawing away 2 defenders, that was his role that play, the pass should have never gone his way.

That is true. The deep routes apparently were the primary reads. He should have gone underneath for the 1st. Not sure if he had time though.

 

[Chemical X]

this is what happens when you miss on a qb. it can set a franchise adrift. you guys had big ben. heck, you had bradshaw. my jets remain aimlessly adrift searching.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Their defense hasn't "been getting a pass" in here this season. Certainly not from me. I have pointed out with regularity how lousy their yardage against has been, pretty much from jump. They've just disguised it by getting a ton of turnovers/sacks. Their run defense in particular has been an embarrassment most games.

At this point, a head coaching change isn't going to matter much if the philosophy remains the same. They need more play makers, period, especially on offense. They need to dispense with this antiquated idea that you can sustain long-term success in today's NFL by focusing on the running game and cheaping out at QB. It just doesn't work anymore. It's dinosaur football. At the very best, say you hit on having a good line/run scheme (they have neither, but that's beside the point right now), what do you wind up with? The Titans? Ehhh....no, thanks. I'm good.

 

[crushedspirit]

If you watch that replay on the 4th and 2, Robinson was wide open underneath. Mitch didn't even look that way which probably means Johnson was the 1st read.

 

[steelers1080]

Last night's game was just sad. Losing to two of the 3 worst teams in the league is pathetic. Kyler is back so maybe the Cards are better than their record, and the Pats weren't starting Mac Jones, so maybe they have improved too, but they were teams that at least on paper, we should have beaten.

I've been on Tomlin's side (for the most part) for a long time, but it's getting so hard. It feels like whenever the game is on the line he so often makes the wrong call, and his personnel decisions about players and coaches just looks worse and worse.

Why can't this team ever seem prepared? Not only coming into the game, but several times each week we have to call timeouts because we run out of time or don't have the right number of players on the field. That comes down to coaching, either Coordinators or HC.

I do believe that if we had a top 8 QB, we would probably be 11-2 right now and 0 people would be complaining. Our defense let up 14 pts last night (Mitch gave away the other 7), but after that they allowed 0. The defense is capable of locking people down, but our offense just can't keep up if they make even the slightest mishap.

It feels like an Andy Reid moment. He had a stretch of mediocre to poor seasons with the Eagles, and then a change was needed to jump start both Reid and the Eagles. It was better for both parties. I wish we could somehow jumpstart Tomlin but it feels like the beginning of the end. I do think that whatever team he coaches next will probably have a ton of success, and that we might have regrets about whoever steps in to fill Tomlin's shoes.

Keep in mind that it won't be Dan Rooney making the decision.

 

[crushedspirit]

If Tomlin goes to a rebuild team or one needing many fixes, he will fail. To that I have zero doubts, especially if a QB is one of those needs.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

This just in ... Steelers are the 5 seed right now.

If Pats win tomorrow Browns move into your spot and Texans into 7th spot.

Even crazier...if Texans lose to NYJ the Steelers are back in as long as Colts and Browns both do not win.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Last night's game was just sad. Losing to two of the 3 worst teams in the league is pathetic. Kyler is back so maybe the Cards are better than their record, and the Pats weren't starting Mac Jones, so maybe they have improved too, but they were teams that at least on paper, we should have beaten.

I've been on Tomlin's side (for the most part) for a long time, but it's getting so hard. It feels like whenever the game is on the line he so often makes the wrong call, and his personnel decisions about players and coaches just looks worse and worse.

Why can't this team ever seem prepared? Not only coming into the game, but several times each week we have to call timeouts because we run out of time or don't have the right number of players on the field. That comes down to coaching, either Coordinators or HC.

I do believe that if we had a top 8 QB, we would probably be 11-2 right now and 0 people would be complaining. Our defense let up 14 pts last night (Mitch gave away the other 7), but after that they allowed 0. The defense is capable of locking people down, but our offense just can't keep up if they make even the slightest mishap.

It feels like an Andy Reid moment. He had a stretch of mediocre to poor seasons with the Eagles, and then a change was needed to jump start both Reid and the Eagles. It was better for both parties. I wish we could somehow jumpstart Tomlin but it feels like the beginning of the end. I do think that whatever team he coaches next will probably have a ton of success, and that we might have regrets about whoever steps in to fill Tomlin's shoes.

Keep in mind that it won't be Dan Rooney making the decision.

I can respect the optimism, but I don't understand why this feels all that different. We've been here before and there have been plenty of bad losses over Tomlin's tenure.

In a different organization, this wouldn't feel like the beginning of the end. When a coach has 3 playoff wins in 13 years and only 2 seasons where a playoff game was even won, the seat would've gotten pretty hot years ago. Not the Steelers though, and Tomlin has been coasting along. This isn't just a mediocre stretch. It's been a mediocre 13 years, progressively getting worse but held together by a 1st ballot HOF QB. Now that Ben is gone, it's imploding.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

 

[fred_1_15301]

This just in ... Steelers are the 5 seed right now.

If Pats win tomorrow Browns move into your spot and Texans into 7th spot.

Even crazier...if Texans lose to NYJ the Steelers are back in as long as Colts and Browns both do not win.

The Steelers are unlikely to win another game this year. Playing out scenarios is fun and all but it’s not happening.

 

[steelers1080]

If Tomlin goes to a rebuild team or one needing many fixes, he will fail. To that I have zero doubts, especially if a QB is one of those needs.

We'll see. I could easily see Tomlin going to a new team and succeeding quickly. The Commanders or Chargers could be a spot to hit the ground running. The Bills would be wild.

He could probably even turn the Bears into a playoff team if someone else hired the OC.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

This just in ... Steelers are the 5 seed right now.

If Pats win tomorrow Browns move into your spot and Texans into 7th spot.

Even crazier...if Texans lose to NYJ the Steelers are back in as long as Colts and Browns both do not win.

The Steelers are unlikely to win another game this year. Playing out scenarios is fun and all but it’s not happening.

Can't speculate but it's immaterial winning 7 games with Pickett and Mitch can't see any other coach out there would have done better. These are 2 QB who shouldn't be starting in the NFL. If Steelers finish below .500 that's Tomlin's first still less than Cowher.
Not saying Tomlin is this incredible coach but people who are blaming him can't be taken seriously no one can turn those QBs into better players.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

 

[fred_1_15301]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

 

[menobrown]

If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.

I can get behind a lot of what you are saying but Cowher remaining retired from coaching was his choice, not because he could not get a job.

 

[Steeler]

If Steelers finish below .500 that's Tomlin's first still less than Cowher.

This is a meaningless stat. Two playoff wins in 13 seasons is a better indicator of success, especially for a franchise that claims they are trying to win the SB every year.

 

[Steeler]

Not saying Tomlin is this incredible coach but people who are blaming him can't be taken seriously no one can turn those QBs into better players.

You are too focused on this year.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher. Less talent and in their prime all time great players. I'm not a Steeler fan in fact I don't care for them I'd love nothing more than they get rid of him. He'd be hired in a heart beat.
Tomlin never had the in their prime best player are their position players than Cowher that's not even debatable. If Cowher had Pickett and Mitch as his QB he'd be lucky to have 7 wins and in the playoff hunt right now. When he retired he was smart to have stayed in TV.
Facts are facts both have same amount of SB wins and Tomlin has never had a losing record and coached more years. Even if they finish with losing record this year still fewer than Cowher.
Here's a valid question for Steeler fans, how many wins do you think Tomlin should have this year with Pickett and Mitch as your QBs? Two QBs who nobody outside Steeler Nation views as a starting QB. Why is Tomlin blamed for Pickett when he didn't personally draft him?
I'd love nothing more for Tomlin to leave and under new coach they sink to the worst of the league and see who their fans blame then.

 

[Steeler]

Playoff records:
Cowher 12 - 9
Tomlin 8 - 9

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Steelers finish below .500 that's Tomlin's first still less than Cowher.

This is a meaningless stat. Two playoff wins in 13 seasons is a better indicator of success, especially for a franchise that claims they are trying to win the SB every year.

What franchise doesn't say their are trying to win a SB every year? That's a meaningless statement. If your owner wanted to draft Pickett that's the opposite of trying to win the SB every year, that won't ever happen. And sorry it's not a meaningless stat, what coach whose fans want to fire every year has had that many years w/o one losing record playing QBs who shouldn't start?
2 playoff wins in 13 seasons is a success given their QBs that's actually way better they should have zero playoff appearances or maybe one on luck with zero wins.

 

[fred_1_15301]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher. Less talent and in their prime all time great players. I'm not a Steeler fan in fact I don't care for them I'd love nothing more than they get rid of him. He'd be hired in a heart beat.
Tomlin never had the in their prime best player are their position players than Cowher that's not even debatable. If Cowher had Pickett and Mitch as his QB he'd be lucky to have 7 wins and in the playoff hunt right now. When he retired he was smart to have stayed in TV.
Facts are facts both have same amount of SB wins and Tomlin has never had a losing record and coached more years. Even if they finish with losing record this year still fewer than Cowher.
Here's a valid question for Steeler fans, how many wins do you think Tomlin should have this year with Pickett and Mitch as your QBs? Two QBs who nobody outside Steeler Nation views as a starting QB. Why is Tomlin blamed for Pickett when he didn't personally draft him?
I'd love nothing more for Tomlin to leave and under new coach they sink to the worst of the league and see who their fans blame then.

But if you’re giving credit to Tomlin for the “success “ he’s having with these QBs , what about the success Cowher had with the likes of Kordell and O’Donnell?