2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (8 Viewers)

[Steeler]

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher.

Who cares? (Other than you).

 

[Steeler]

2 playoff wins in 13 seasons is a success given their QBs

You have to be trolling now... Tomlin had Big Ben for 10 of those 13 seasons.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

Playoff records:
Cowher 12 - 9
Tomlin 8 - 9

Cowher never coming back so Steeler fans need to get over that I'm sorry but he left and never returned to coaching for good reason. He should have had at least 3 SB wins with that talent in their prime probably more. He's smart and stayed in TV.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher.

Who cares? (Other than you).

I don't care in fact I'd love Steelers love to fire Tomlin then see they won't even sniff 7 wins this time of the year and who the fans will blame next. Same fans who think Pickett is a legit NFL QB.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.

I can get behind a lot of what you are saying but Cowher remaining retired from coaching was his choice, not because he could not get a job.

He could have gotten a job but any great coach you have to force out of coaching. He underperformed given the talent he had and think he knew that and wanted to take less on TV.

 

[crushedspirit]

If Tomlin goes to a rebuild team or one needing many fixes, he will fail. To that I have zero doubts, especially if a QB is one of those needs.

We'll see. I could easily see Tomlin going to a new team and succeeding quickly. The Commanders or Chargers could be a spot to hit the ground running. The Bills would be wild.

He could probably even turn the Bears into a playoff team if someone else hired the OC.

I noticed all 3 you listed have QBs in place, LOL. Anyways, if Tomlin wants any chance at success anywhere, he would have to be willing to completely change who he is. That means letting others run the offense without his vision of what he likes, first and foremost. This Steeler offense is in his vision, make absolutely no mistakes about it. He would also need assistants who can gameplan, especially in playoffs. He can watch and learn, or maybe take the day off and let others do that part for him.

 

[HellToupee]

Saw this sobering fact on twitter today

Playoff wins since 2011:

Pittsburgh Steelers: 3
Pittsburgh Pirates: 3

 

[menobrown]

If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.

I can get behind a lot of what you are saying but Cowher remaining retired from coaching was his choice, not because he could not get a job.

He could have gotten a job but any great coach you have to force out of coaching. He underperformed given the talent he had and think he knew that and wanted to take less on TV.

I don't understand the bolded. He had loyalty to the Steelers and went through a significant personal tragedy and just did not want to return. You are wildy off base, and as someone mentioned, have entered trolling phase with some of your anti-Cowher comments. I'm all for a debate on Tomlin vs Cowher, but that does not mean you have to tear someone down to build the other guy up.

Cowher had complete teams that lacked a QB. When he got one he won a SB. Had he won with any of the QB's before he got Big Ben it would have been in conversation with Ravens and Dilfer as worst QB's to win a SB in the modern era and took one of the best defenses of all time to pull off and it happened once. In other words an incredible feat no matter how strong the rest of the roster might have been to win a SB with that caliber of QB play.

I have always viewed it as an orginazational failute to not get more aggressive, to turn over every stone, to improve the QB play during most of Cowher's ternure. But not acknowledging the importance of that position and the success he had with the likes of O'Donnell, Kordell and even Tommy Maddox is either a blind spot for you or you just don't care to have a real convo because you are more keen on trolling.

 

[crushedspirit]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

Should listen to people who can view the situation w/o emotion. That said I'm not a fan of either just hate horrible incorrect takes but hopefully fans will get their wish hire someone else and turns Pickett into a starting QB. That won't happen but stranger things has happened.

 

[belljr]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

Should listen to people who can view the situation w/o emotion. That said I'm not a fan of either just hate horrible incorrect takes but hopefully fans will get their wish hire someone else and turns Pickett into a starting QB. That won't happen but stranger things has happened.

You mean the horrible incorrect takes like Cowher couldn't find another job. He had a cushy gig and after his wife died from cancer he chose not to do it. Those kind of horrible takes?

 

[crushedspirit]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

Should listen to people who can view the situation w/o emotion. That said I'm not a fan of either just hate horrible incorrect takes but hopefully fans will get their wish hire someone else and turns Pickett into a starting QB. That won't happen but stranger things has happened.

Sorry, but with all due respect, you have no idea what Cowher built and accomplished with QBs similar to Pickett/Mitch/Mason at his disposal. The fact he event went where he did with O'Donnell, Stewart, Tomczak, and Maddox is a true coaching feat to be honest. You didn't watch these guys play and understand how average to subpar they really were. He finally got a QB in Ben, and went 5-1 with a SB win in the first two years. If one can't acknowledge what these accomplishments were, and how much Tomlin's don't measure up in comparison, then it's probably time to step back.

I've been watching this team since the late 80s during Noll's final seasons as coach.

 

[steelers1080]

I wouldn't be shocked if any of the scenarios below played out.

• Tomlin fired, all new staff (probably only if we have a losing season).
• Team lets go of offensive assistants and defensive coordinator, resets at all levels except Tomlin.
• Team doesn't fire anyone, hires Faulkner as OC.

For now, I'd prefer option 2 with a hard push to go after a QB, either in the draft or via trade. But I assume most fans want option 1. I think as it stands right now, there's an 80% chance our starting QB for 2024 is not on the team. If Kenny is the starter in 2024, I think it's because Art II said so.

Also, I don't think Omar's seat should be even slightly warm. His picks have been excellent so far, and the free agents he went after have helped a lot. If not for some unfortunate luck at ILB, he would have really hit on a lot of holes. We can nitpick that the Steelers should have gone after a better Center, but there were so many holes to fill and he really did a great job.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

Should listen to people who can view the situation w/o emotion. That said I'm not a fan of either just hate horrible incorrect takes but hopefully fans will get their wish hire someone else and turns Pickett into a starting QB. That won't happen but stranger things has happened.

Sorry, but with all due respect, you have no idea what Cowher built and accomplished with QBs similar to Pickett/Mitch/Mason at his disposal. The fact he event went where he did with O'Donnell, Stewart, Tomczak, and Maddox is a true coaching feat to be honest. You didn't watch these guys play and understand how average to subpar they really were. He finally got a QB in Ben, and went 5-1 with a SB win in the first two years. If one can't acknowledge what these accomplishments were, and how much Tomlin's don't measure up in comparison, then it's probably time to step back.

I've been watching this team since the late 80s during Noll's final seasons as coach.

Agree to disagree but was watching them since the 70s.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

Don't listen to a non Steeler fan who is just a fan of Tomlin, and is obviously trolling.

Wasting your time really.

Should listen to people who can view the situation w/o emotion. That said I'm not a fan of either just hate horrible incorrect takes but hopefully fans will get their wish hire someone else and turns Pickett into a starting QB. That won't happen but stranger things has happened.

You mean the horrible incorrect takes like Cowher couldn't find another job. He had a cushy gig and after his wife died from cancer he chose not to do it. Those kind of horrible takes?

The list is too long on the incorrect horrible takes in this thread. I can only lead a horse to water...
I hope Steeler fans get their wish and Tomlin is gone and see how great Mitch and Pickett is under new coaching staff. Good luck.

 

[3C's]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

John Madden left at 42.

 

[crushedspirit]

I wouldn't be shocked if any of the scenarios below played out.

• Tomlin fired, all new staff (probably only if we have a losing season).
• Team lets go of offensive assistants and defensive coordinator, resets at all levels except Tomlin.
• Team doesn't fire anyone, hires Faulkner as OC.

For now, I'd prefer option 2 with a hard push to go after a QB, either in the draft or via trade. But I assume most fans want option 1. I think as it stands right now, there's an 80% chance our starting QB for 2024 is not on the team. If Kenny is the starter in 2024, I think it's because Art II said so.

Also, I don't think Omar's seat should be even slightly warm. His picks have been excellent so far, and the free agents he went after have helped a lot. If not for some unfortunate luck at ILB, he would have really hit on a lot of holes. We can nitpick that the Steelers should have gone after a better Center, but there were so many holes to fill and he really did a great job.

Let me ask you this. If Tomlin still has control of the offense in his identity, what good will option 2 do for us?

That option only works if he's told to stay out of the way, like his early days when both Arians and LeBeau ran things for him.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher. Less talent and in their prime all time great players. I'm not a Steeler fan in fact I don't care for them I'd love nothing more than they get rid of him. He'd be hired in a heart beat.
Tomlin never had the in their prime best player are their position players than Cowher that's not even debatable. If Cowher had Pickett and Mitch as his QB he'd be lucky to have 7 wins and in the playoff hunt right now. When he retired he was smart to have stayed in TV.
Facts are facts both have same amount of SB wins and Tomlin has never had a losing record and coached more years. Even if they finish with losing record this year still fewer than Cowher.
Here's a valid question for Steeler fans, how many wins do you think Tomlin should have this year with Pickett and Mitch as your QBs? Two QBs who nobody outside Steeler Nation views as a starting QB. Why is Tomlin blamed for Pickett when he didn't personally draft him?
I'd love nothing more for Tomlin to leave and under new coach they sink to the worst of the league and see who their fans blame then.

Tomlin's run of non-losing seasons is a truly meaningless stat. And you're probably right, no way could Cowher ever win with bad QB play. I mean, it's not like 80% of his career came with some mix of O'Donnell, Kordell, Tomczak, Maddox, and Graham under center LOL.

Putting it simply:

Cowher's teams won at least 1 playoff game in 8 of 15 years
2 of the ones where he didn't were his first two years after taking over a crappy team from Noll.

Tomlin's teams have won at least 1 playoff game in only 4 of his 17 years
2 of the past 13
0 of the past 7
2 of the ones where he did were in the 4 years after inheriting a contender from Cowher.

You need to realize that it's been a 13 year run of mediocrity, not just 1 or 2. The farther away he got from the core of talent Cowher left him, the worse he's been.

If you don't see that, there's really no way to argue the point.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher. Less talent and in their prime all time great players. I'm not a Steeler fan in fact I don't care for them I'd love nothing more than they get rid of him. He'd be hired in a heart beat.
Tomlin never had the in their prime best player are their position players than Cowher that's not even debatable. If Cowher had Pickett and Mitch as his QB he'd be lucky to have 7 wins and in the playoff hunt right now. When he retired he was smart to have stayed in TV.
Facts are facts both have same amount of SB wins and Tomlin has never had a losing record and coached more years. Even if they finish with losing record this year still fewer than Cowher.
Here's a valid question for Steeler fans, how many wins do you think Tomlin should have this year with Pickett and Mitch as your QBs? Two QBs who nobody outside Steeler Nation views as a starting QB. Why is Tomlin blamed for Pickett when he didn't personally draft him?
I'd love nothing more for Tomlin to leave and under new coach they sink to the worst of the league and see who their fans blame then.

Tomlin's run of non-losing seasons is a truly meaningless stat. And you're probably right, no way could Cowher ever win with bad QB play. I mean, it's not like 80% of his career came with some mix of O'Donnell, Kordell, Tomczak, Maddox, and Graham under center LOL.

Putting it simply:

Cowher's teams won at least 1 playoff game in 8 of 15 years
2 of the ones where he didn't were his first two years after taking over a crappy team from Noll.

Tomlin's teams have won at least 1 playoff game in only 4 of his 17 years
2 of the past 13
0 of the past 7
2 of the ones where he did were in the 4 years after inheriting a contender from Cowher.

You need to realize that it's been a 13 year run of mediocrity, not just 1 or 2. The farther away he got from the core of talent Cowher left him, the worse he's been.

If you don't see that, there's really no way to argue the point.

Yeah don't mention the SB win that's meaningless as well as the other wins postseason those don't count now right? Tomlin has won way more games than they should have over the past 13 years. They should have had multiple seasons with top 4 or 5 worst records.
Yes you're right, it's meaningless that a coach never had a losing season going on multiple decades of coaching and a SB win those coaches grows on trees right? It's meaningless when a head coach makes the hall of fame listing their wins, nobody judged a coach by his wins that's meaningless. Also any great coach can take a Pickett and Mitch and turn into postseason wins and a SB. It's his fault that the owner wanted Kenny Pickett and their next coach will be a legit one and take them into the postseason with wins and a SB. Maybe they can beg Cowher to come back now that his daughters are grown and he will transform Pickett into next Big Ben and the Tomlin haters can tell everyone see they were right.

 

[crushedspirit]

A HoF QB will get you wins single handedly, which Ben did many multiple times a season. Ask Hoodie in NE what life is like without Brady carrying him.

 

[WaltonGoggins]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

John Madden left at 42.

one coach before you were born

A HoF QB will get you wins single handedly, which Ben did many multiple times a season. Ask Hoodie in NE what life is like without Brady carrying him.

Exactly.

 

[3C's]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

John Madden left at 42.

one coach before you were born

A coach before who was born? I was quite alive during Madden's coaching career, as well as noll's. And I could come up with more names but that was just one that popped into my head. Cowher essentially chose a path similar to Madden.

 

[Steelers4Life]

If Tomlin ever gets into the HoF, he can turn to Cowher and Ben and hand them the trophy.

What kills me is that they're both viewed similarly.

Cowher took over a team that had been barely .500 for a decade and turned them into a perennial contender despite never having a franchise QB until his last few years. He never went more than 3 years without WINNING a playoff game. Other than his first two seasons when they went one and done, he won at least one playoff game in 8 of the next 13 years. And while it's fine to knock him that the QB position was neglected for so long and it contributed heaviily to the AFCC losses, he got to an AFC Championship game then and won a Super Bowl as soon as he landed Roethlisberger.

Tomlin took over a team that had 2 AFCC losses and a Super Bowl win in the 5 previous seasons, won for a few more years with that core, and has only seen his team win a playoff game in 2 of the last 13 seasons with a total of 3, with none coming in the last 7 seasons. I don't understand why he has the reputation he does.

They're not remotely similar. Tomlin isn't half the coach Cowher was.

I think Cowher is viewed way more favorably than he should be. I'd argue he's move overrated and smart he never got back into coaching and stayed on TV. Very telling because great coaches at his age don't leave and never try and coach again. Great ones usually have to be forced out or their age they just can't do it anymore.
Tomlin has a better winning % record than Cowher. Tomlin has never had a losing season, Cowher has had multiple. Hard to find someone whose coached for almost 20 years without one single season less than .500. Cowher had way better talent than Tomlin. If you want to be angry blame the people who are drafting players like Pickett who nobody thought they should have in first round just because he's a local kid. Heard owners wanted him.
A head coach is as good as his QB. You could argue their record should be much worse given their starter and backup are awful quarterbacks who should never start. It's not as if Tomlin demanded Steelers to draft Pickett.
If Tomlin was fired he'd be recruited hard by multiple teams immediately. No question. I don't care who Steelers get with Pickett as their QB they would probably be worse I am shocked they have 7 wins and argue this looks better for Tomlin.

If a coach is as good as his QB, that speaks volumes in that comparison. It's not just about one year. It's about the last THIRTEEN years.

Cowher built a franchise from nothing when he took over into a perrenial contender WITHOUT a good QB. 3 of his 4 AFC Championship game losses were to Brady and Elway and his Super Bowl loss was a competition between O'Donnell and Aikman. Once he got Ben, he got his Super Bowl.

Tomlin turned a franchise from a perrenial contender into the trash it is now WITH a first ballot HOF QB for nearly his entire tenure. His winning percentage is what it is, but we're now looking at the 6th time in 7 season with 9 or fewer wins. The one team that won more was very lucky early and flamed out at the end.

People can buy into the media's narrative and look at a regular W-L record if they want to. And Tomlin is fine if mediocrity is the ultimate goal, and that would be a step up for some franchises. But the Steelers used to have higher standards than that.

Tomlin better than Cowher in every metric and non metric.
Cowher had infinitely better players who were in their prime. Does Tomlin have full draft control and wanted Pickett? I seem to remember not. If Cowher had Pickett, Mitch and old Big Ben he'd have way more below .500 seasons than he ended up having which are MORE than Tomlin has (zero so far).
If Cowher was so great he wouldn't have stayed retired.
Cowher only had 1 SB win with a young and prime Big Ben one of the best WR and RB and dominate defense. He actually is a worse coach than the talent he had. People forget this or too young and never followed his teams year in year out.
Facts are Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, Cowher has multiple. This might be his first with Mitch and Pickett. 7 wins. That's great coaching.
Tomlin never had to talent in their prime that Cowher had.
Cowher should have had more success and considered a disappointment given the dominate talent on both sides of the ball.
I think people see Cowher on TV and see he won a SB and have severe revisionist history or never followed him and believe he was way better than he actually was.
People who say Cowher is light years better than Tomlin can't back it up stats wise or not for good reason.

Pretty much the entire post is speculation and Tomlin has had a ton of talented players. He had one of the greatest defenses ever and to his credit did win a Super Bowl with that team. He also had Ben for almost his entire tenure (Cowher had garbage at QB for most of his tenure). Let’s also not forget about an offense that featured Ben, Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown.

It's not speculation saying Tomlin has fewer (zero to date) losing seasons than Cowher. Less talent and in their prime all time great players. I'm not a Steeler fan in fact I don't care for them I'd love nothing more than they get rid of him. He'd be hired in a heart beat.
Tomlin never had the in their prime best player are their position players than Cowher that's not even debatable. If Cowher had Pickett and Mitch as his QB he'd be lucky to have 7 wins and in the playoff hunt right now. When he retired he was smart to have stayed in TV.
Facts are facts both have same amount of SB wins and Tomlin has never had a losing record and coached more years. Even if they finish with losing record this year still fewer than Cowher.
Here's a valid question for Steeler fans, how many wins do you think Tomlin should have this year with Pickett and Mitch as your QBs? Two QBs who nobody outside Steeler Nation views as a starting QB. Why is Tomlin blamed for Pickett when he didn't personally draft him?
I'd love nothing more for Tomlin to leave and under new coach they sink to the worst of the league and see who their fans blame then.

Tomlin's run of non-losing seasons is a truly meaningless stat. And you're probably right, no way could Cowher ever win with bad QB play. I mean, it's not like 80% of his career came with some mix of O'Donnell, Kordell, Tomczak, Maddox, and Graham under center LOL.

Putting it simply:

Cowher's teams won at least 1 playoff game in 8 of 15 years
2 of the ones where he didn't were his first two years after taking over a crappy team from Noll.

Tomlin's teams have won at least 1 playoff game in only 4 of his 17 years
2 of the past 13
0 of the past 7
2 of the ones where he did were in the 4 years after inheriting a contender from Cowher.

You need to realize that it's been a 13 year run of mediocrity, not just 1 or 2. The farther away he got from the core of talent Cowher left him, the worse he's been.

If you don't see that, there's really no way to argue the point.

Yeah don't mention the SB win that's meaningless as well as the other wins postseason those don't count now right? Tomlin has won way more games than they should have over the past 13 years. They should have had multiple seasons with top 4 or 5 worst records.
Yes you're right, it's meaningless that a coach never had a losing season going on multiple decades of coaching and a SB win those coaches grows on trees right? It's meaningless when a head coach makes the hall of fame listing their wins, nobody judged a coach by his wins that's meaningless. Also any great coach can take a Pickett and Mitch and turn into postseason wins and a SB. It's his fault that the owner wanted Kenny Pickett and their next coach will be a legit one and take them into the postseason with wins and a SB. Maybe they can beg Cowher to come back now that his daughters are grown and he will transform Pickett into next Big Ben and the Tomlin haters can tell everyone see they were right.

Honestly, you talk like someone who's watched the Steelers from afar but you really haven't paid much attention to what's really going on. You look at stats and records and listen to ESPN talking heads and soundbites. You're debating with people who've paid attention to everything they've done for decades.

It's like you don't even realize that Ben was 25 when Tomlin took over. Tomlin's teams didn't overachieve, and it's laughable for anyone to suggest they did.

Tomlin won a Super Bowl with the team he inherited that had just won one two years earlier. Most of his success and reputation is built on what he did in his first 4 years with that core of talent, because his teams haven't done **** since the Super Bowl loss to Green Bay. Cowher won his Super Bowl with a team he built and had far better sustained success for his entire tenure as coach. He never went 4 years without winning a playoff game despite not having a legit QB until his 13th year of coaching. Tomlin is about to have his 7th with no end in sight. Big difference.

As long as you're only looking at 2023, there's no point in debating anything with you. Tomlin was a mediocre coach long before Pickett or Trubisky came to Pittsburgh, and this isn't about anything from this year. It's the culmination of everything he's done and hasn't done since Cowher's talent started trickling away.

 

[crushedspirit]

We already know what Tomlin is without Ben, as we have a 2019 season at 8-8, a 2022 season of 9-8, and now 7-6

Cowher had 7 of his 13 seasons with no HoF QB at 10+ wins while playing 1 less game.

 

[3C's]

Bill Cowher And Coaches Retiring Early

It’s been nearly a decade since Bill Cowher stopped coaching, but that hasn’t done much to keep his name out of the rumor mill every December and January. After all, Cowher was both very successful and very young when he retired, and NFL folks believe those dots can be connected to mean he won’t...

www.footballperspective.com

 

[steelers1080]

New plan!

1. Fire both coordinators (half done).
2. Hire Brian Griese to run the offense, Tomlin has very little control and is told short leash for 2024.
3. Hire Anthony Weaver as DC (hurts the Ravens at the same time)
4. Trade 2 1sts, Diontae Johnson & Alex Highsmith for 1st overall to draft Caleb Williams.
5. Use freed up cap space on a Center & ILBs, also draft C/ILB/CB/T

This is if they keep Tomlin.
If they fire Tomlin, hire Jim Harbaugh. He won't last as long but we'll probably win 2 AFC Championships in 5 years before he leaves.

 

[fred_1_15301]

New plan!

1. Fire both coordinators (half done).
2. Hire Brian Griese to run the offense, Tomlin has very little control and is told short leash for 2024.
3. Hire Anthony Weaver as DC (hurts the Ravens at the same time)
4. Trade 2 1sts, Diontae Johnson & Alex Highsmith for 1st overall to draft Caleb Williams.
5. Use freed up cap space on a Center & ILBs, also draft C/ILB/CB/T

This is if they keep Tomlin.
If they fire Tomlin, hire Jim Harbaugh. He won't last as long but we'll probably win 2 AFC Championships in 5 years before he leaves.

Do you think that package could get them # 1 overall pick? That feels light to me. The Steelers may be drafting in the teens.

 

[crushedspirit]

New plan!

1. Fire both coordinators (half done).
2. Hire Brian Griese to run the offense, Tomlin has very little control and is told short leash for 2024.
3. Hire Anthony Weaver as DC (hurts the Ravens at the same time)
4. Trade 2 1sts, Diontae Johnson & Alex Highsmith for 1st overall to draft Caleb Williams.
5. Use freed up cap space on a Center & ILBs, also draft C/ILB/CB/T

This is if they keep Tomlin.
If they fire Tomlin, hire Jim Harbaugh. He won't last as long but we'll probably win 2 AFC Championships in 5 years before he leaves.

I'm not sold on Caleb, and wouldn't pay that price for him, but I wouldn't be against unloading TJ and Minkah for some high draft pieces.

I like the hiring of OC and DC from the outside, and Mikey told he has no say on who and stays out of telling them how to run things. I doubt that happens though since he knows other teams will give him power.

 

[irish eyes]

.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Hire Anthony Weaver as DC

No! You can't have him.

 

[sm8680]

Big Ben played 3 years for Bill Cowher. In his second year he won the Superbowl. Third year has the motorcycle accident Steelers go 8-8. Bill Cowher retires. For the next x amount of years Bill Cowher next head coaching gigs talks continue. He'd have easily been hired if wanted to get back in. Just like someone will bite on Mike Tomlin if the Steeler's sunset him.

Steeler's hire Tomlin in 2007 then the next year win the Superbowl in Ben's 5 year. Around that time of the first and 2nd Super Bowl a lot of greedy Pittsburghers including me had thought that Big Ben had a real chance of surpassing Terry Bradshaw's 4 Super bowl wins. Ask yourself what if Big Ben doesn't get into a motorcycle accident and what if Cowher stays a few more years. There were other circumstances to Cowher wanting to retire.

For me I can't wait to see if and when Big Ben goes into the hall of fame and who he chooses to represent himself. You can like Ben the player. But I can't help but think that Steelers wasted Big Ben's last 13 years. You could argue his last few years he was a shell of himself(Elway & Manning won near the end of their careers). Plus, every time I hear a coach mention how hard of a worker Kenny Pickett is and how he's the first player in and last player out. Like the coach keeps drilling this into the media's head as if this is a reason why he will be successful in the league is questionable at best. But in the back of my mind a dig at Big Ben. Really Mitch TooRisky is the highest paid backup at 8 million. Really Why???

For Mike Tomlin fans keep in mind Steeler's fans are very passionate about their team. Like a lot of other teams out there. There's was a lot of fan ire surrounding Chuck Noll's last years. Prior to Bill Cowher winning the Superbowl there were a lot of outlandish comments and ire directed at him. Simply put Mike Tomlin is near the end. You don't lose in consecutive weeks to 2 bottom dweller team, 2-win teams and survive. Maybe you do if your owner is asleep at the wheel.

The stats geek in me. All I keep hearing is Tomlin has never had a losing season.
I just pulled what I'm terming the middling stats.

Bill Cowher
3 losing seasons
2(6 win season) - (Able to draft Big Ben)
1(7 win season)
1(8 win season)
2(9 win seasons)

Mike Tomlin 170-99
No losing seasons
3(8 win seasons)
4(9 win seasons)


Bill Belichick's effect
Cowher's record
Browns 7-2
Patriots 1-4

Tomlin's 3-13 against Patriots

National media is all over the Brady - Belichick situation. Saying Brady made Belichick. If there's a takeaway here if you don't have a franchise QB you literally have a low probability of winning a Super Bowl. Sure, there's the outliers like Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, some say Jeff H. But if you're a fan of your team you want to win Super Bowls and that's the bottom line.

 

[3C's]

Woooooo, we're back in the playoffs!

 

[fred_1_15301]

Woooooo, we're back in the playoffs!

My 9 year old was scoreboard watching today and I asked him why even bother? He was not very happy with me. Kids amirite!!??

 

[irish eyes]

Woooooo, we're back in the playoffs!

My 9 year old was scoreboard watching today and I asked him why even bother? He was not very happy with me. Kids amirite!!??

I would prefer to not see them get beat by 40 in a playoff game.

 

[Godsbrother]

At the moment both Watt and Highsmith are in concussion protocol and if both miss the chances of a victory is not good, even against a banged up mediocre team.

 

[steelers1080]

New plan!

1. Fire both coordinators (half done).
2. Hire Brian Griese to run the offense, Tomlin has very little control and is told short leash for 2024.
3. Hire Anthony Weaver as DC (hurts the Ravens at the same time)
4. Trade 2 1sts, Diontae Johnson & Alex Highsmith for 1st overall to draft Caleb Williams.
5. Use freed up cap space on a Center & ILBs, also draft C/ILB/CB/T

This is if they keep Tomlin.
If they fire Tomlin, hire Jim Harbaugh. He won't last as long but we'll probably win 2 AFC Championships in 5 years before he leaves.

Do you think that package could get them # 1 overall pick? That feels light to me. The Steelers may be drafting in the teens.

No, I think it'd take 1, 1, Watt, but I don't want to trade Watt no matter what.

 

[steelers1080]

At the moment both Watt and Highsmith are in concussion protocol and if both miss the chances of a victory is not good, even against a banged up mediocre team.

But, this would be just like the Steelers. Lose to crap teams, then beat teams we shouldn't.

If this is a case of history repeating itself, we'll win against Indy, Cincy, and Seattle, but will need to beat the Ravens to make the playoffs. The Ravens bench starters because playoffs are locked in, and we lose to the backups to miss the playoffs.

 

[Godsbrother]

At the moment both Watt and Highsmith are in concussion protocol and if both miss the chances of a victory is not good, even against a banged up mediocre team.

But, this would be just like the Steelers. Lose to crap teams, then beat teams we shouldn't.

If this is a case of history repeating itself, we'll win against Indy, Cincy, and Seattle, but will need to beat the Ravens to make the playoffs. The Ravens bench starters because playoffs are locked in, and we lose to the backups to miss the playoffs.

Yes that does sound like a familiar story. I just don't think this team has it in them to win any of these games

 

[steelers1080]

Reports that Bill is done in New England no matter what happens the rest of the season. Pretty wild that if the Steelers lose out, both Tomlin and BB could be on the market.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Reports that Bill is done in New England no matter what happens the rest of the season. Pretty wild that if the Steelers lose out, both Tomlin and BB could be on the market.

I think there is a 0% chance Tomlin is elsewhere unless they are approached with a Godfather trade offer that puts the Gruden trade to shame.

He may need to clean house on assistants though. You have WRs and TEs not running routes. Miscommunication all over the field etc.

 

[pecorino]

The fans can clamor all they want, Tomlin is not going anywhere. Two weeks ago when the Steelers were 7-4, a case could have been made that he was doing his best work as a coach ever. They had no business being 7-4, they just had a nice bounce-back win after letting Canada go, Pickett looked to be on a mildly upward trajectory. Since then, yes, they laid two eggs and the old, bad coaching habits continue. Nonetheless, play it out--the Steelers end the season 8-9 or 9-8 with a team that eked out victories to get there. The QB will have one more year to prove whether he can do it or not. They're not going to toss Tomlin at this point.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The fans can clamor all they want, Tomlin is not going anywhere. Two weeks ago when the Steelers were 7-4, a case could have been made that he was doing his best work as a coach ever. They had no business being 7-4, they just had a nice bounce-back win after letting Canada go, Pickett looked to be on a mildly upward trajectory. Since then, yes, they laid two eggs and the old, bad coaching habits continue. Nonetheless, play it out--the Steelers end the season 8-9 or 9-8 with a team that eked out victories to get there. The QB will have one more year to prove whether he can do it or not. They're not going to toss Tomlin at this point.

I tend to agree. Not with the idea that he was doing his best coaching, because it was just a series of lucky breaks and unsustainable success to get to 7-4. But the other stuff I do.

However, with the Steelers struggles there's been more national AND local scrutiny on what his actual track record is. People are noticing that despite his non-losing regular seasons, his teams have been an afterthought in the playoffs since the 2010 season.

Loyalty is huge. But once it starts negatively impacting the Steelers brand that's been so valuable, I don't think anything is impossible. I think this year is reinforcing the need to bring in an innovative mind externally to develop a new QB and utilize the talent on offense.

 

[irish eyes]

Minkah calling out players not wanting to work hard enough. Tomlin's response, " he's probably just talking about smiling in the face of adversity". What?? That's all you need to know when a player questions work ethic & the coach blows it off with another stupid phrase. It can't get any worse. He's become a laughingstock.

 

[Godsbrother]

Watt and Highsmith both clear concussion protocol and will play vs the Colts on Saturday.

 

[steelers1080]

Watt and Highsmith both clear concussion protocol and will play vs the Colts on Saturday.

And Taylor is still out.

 

[steelers1080]

Minkah calling out players not wanting to work hard enough. Tomlin's response, " he's probably just talking about smiling in the face of adversity". What?? That's all you need to know when a player questions work ethic & the coach blows it off with another stupid phrase. It can't get any worse. He's become a laughingstock.

I think you've made an incorrect assumption that what he says to the media is what gets said behind closed doors. If he only said platitudes he wouldn't routinely be ranked as one of the coaches players want to play for.

That said, he does not seem to be good at hiring assistants, outside of Brian Flores.

We could have had Flores as DC and Slowik as OC. Mistakes were made.

 

[steelers1080]

Reports that Bill is done in New England no matter what happens the rest of the season. Pretty wild that if the Steelers lose out, both Tomlin and BB could be on the market.

I think there is a 0% chance Tomlin is elsewhere unless they are approached with a Godfather trade offer that puts the Gruden trade to shame.

He may need to clean house on assistants though. You have WRs and TEs not running routes. Miscommunication all over the field etc.

I would have said that before the season, but I think that if we lose the last 4 games, there's a 40% chance we move on.

I think my ideal scenario would be if they kept Tomlin, cleaned house when it came to Coordinators & Assistants (Except Karl Dunbar and some of the Def Assistants), and Omar/Weidl hired the new coordinators who would have control over the staff they hired.

It would also be nice if we hired up-and-coming talent, instead of re-treads who failed repeatedly elsewhere (I.E., Canada, Sullivan, Teryl Austin, etc.).

 

[H8fulHuck]

Reports that Bill is done in New England no matter what happens the rest of the season. Pretty wild that if the Steelers lose out, both Tomlin and BB could be on the market.

I think there is a 0% chance Tomlin is elsewhere unless they are approached with a Godfather trade offer that puts the Gruden trade to shame.

He may need to clean house on assistants though. You have WRs and TEs not running routes. Miscommunication all over the field etc.

Could see an organization take that shot at trading for Coach T. Enough turmoil surrounding the Steelers makes it plausible enough to make an offer too good to refuse.

Flip the script with Chicago. Tomlin loves Fields right? Chicago loves defense. Draft capital is there. Big time need of a head coach.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Reports that Bill is done in New England no matter what happens the rest of the season. Pretty wild that if the Steelers lose out, both Tomlin and BB could be on the market.

I think there is a 0% chance Tomlin is elsewhere unless they are approached with a Godfather trade offer that puts the Gruden trade to shame.

He may need to clean house on assistants though. You have WRs and TEs not running routes. Miscommunication all over the field etc.

Could see an organization take that shot at trading for Coach T. Enough turmoil surrounding the Steelers makes it plausible enough to make an offer too good to refuse.

Flip the script with Chicago. Tomlin loves Fields right? Chicago loves defense. Draft capital is there. Big time need of a head coach.

I think it is more likely Fields ends up in Pitt with Tomlin, than the other way around.

 

[H8fulHuck]

agree with you 100%, but i like the idea of coach heading to Chicago and we get the first? pick next year and then some. great way to attract a new HC/OC to develop the #1 QB prospect.