belljr
Footballguy
Joe Burrow was the most sacked QB this past year and I think most hurried. So it's doable with a bad oline. Not saying it shouldn't be addressed
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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godsbrother
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crushedspirit
Footballguy
Watched him again today, and I'll stick with my thoughts that he has the highest potential of any in this draft class. Needs the right landing spot though, which is imperative for his growth.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The Senior Bowl just proved to me that none of these QBs is worth a 1st round pick. The O-lines were getting dominated by the D-lines, but the passes were inaccurate, poorly timed, and underwhelming. Willis had some nice runs, but he's definitely run first if things break down and if he does decide to throw he's often off balance and wildly off target. I went back and watched a few of Willis' games, it's weird how often his WRs have to go to the ground to catch the ball. They almost never are able to catch the ball in stride.
Carson Strong looked hapless out there, underthrowing open WRs even though he's known for his deep ball. Pickett looked the best, but he wasn't very impressive. He had a high completion percentage on short throws with 1 long throw only completed because the WR made a great play on the ball. He said he underthrew it because the WR ran the wrong route, but it wasn't a high percentage play for sure.
Ridder, after seeing his game against Bama I just have 0 faith that he'll be good against NFL defenses. Maybe if he has a year to develop, but his skill set isn't worth a 1st to me, none of them are.
Also based on the Senior Bowl scuttlebutt, I'm 90% sure the Steelers are taking a QB in the first, possibly trading up for one. Not excited about that.
Based on the senior bowl and how player grades have been looking there's so many options at O-line, D-line, WR, ILB, S, CB, all with higher grades than the QBs. Trying to prepare myself in advance for disappointment in April.
There were some great D-line guys at the Senior Bowl, and Pitre looked like a baller at Safety.
Carson Strong looked hapless out there, underthrowing open WRs even though he's known for his deep ball. Pickett looked the best, but he wasn't very impressive. He had a high completion percentage on short throws with 1 long throw only completed because the WR made a great play on the ball. He said he underthrew it because the WR ran the wrong route, but it wasn't a high percentage play for sure.
Ridder, after seeing his game against Bama I just have 0 faith that he'll be good against NFL defenses. Maybe if he has a year to develop, but his skill set isn't worth a 1st to me, none of them are.
Also based on the Senior Bowl scuttlebutt, I'm 90% sure the Steelers are taking a QB in the first, possibly trading up for one. Not excited about that.
Based on the senior bowl and how player grades have been looking there's so many options at O-line, D-line, WR, ILB, S, CB, all with higher grades than the QBs. Trying to prepare myself in advance for disappointment in April.
There were some great D-line guys at the Senior Bowl, and Pitre looked like a baller at Safety.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Possibly Matt Corral falls to 20?steelers1080 said:
I think I'd rather gamble on him than take any of the others guys based on their showing at the Senior Bowl.
Agree though, this probably ain't the year for a QB.
streamkeeper
Footballguy
I think it might be time for the Steelers to do something very un-Steeler like and go get a top FA.
I just can't get comfortable with sacrificing the current roster for what will probably an over valued fist rounder this year.
I just can't get comfortable with sacrificing the current roster for what will probably an over valued fist rounder this year.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I don't think any of these QBs seem worthy of a first round pick given the other holes. I also would not trade for a QB not named Wilson or Watson (which won't happen anyway).
Sign trubiski or just go and see what you have between Rudolph and Haskins (who is a similar reclamation as Trubiski).
I just don't know that a 3-way battle is the best way to find your starter -- which makes me think if they sign a QB it will be a tier even below Trubiski/Mariota etc.
Sign trubiski or just go and see what you have between Rudolph and Haskins (who is a similar reclamation as Trubiski).
I just don't know that a 3-way battle is the best way to find your starter -- which makes me think if they sign a QB it will be a tier even below Trubiski/Mariota etc.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
The thought of Corral as a Steeler makes me want to
. We've all seen the Johnny Manziel show, and I would appreciate the Steelers not trying to pick up the option on a reboot of that. Smurfy, mostly-RPO QBs tend to get treated very, very harshly in the NFL.Your last sentence is the correct answer: This ain't the year to take a QB in the first. Shore up both lines, improve the defensive backfield, take you lumps with what you have/can scrounge at QB for a year.
The last week or so I can't say I disagree with this line of thinking. As we've all been discussing guys like Trubisky/etc in here, I joked about them bringing in Tyrod Taylor as some kind of "veteran presence" for Haskins and Rudolph and calling it a day. The more I think about it, the less that sort of move would surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me, were it to happen, if Taylor outplayed both Rudolph and Haskins pretty decidedly in training camp. :bagshead:
Scenario: Waste a draft pick on a non-1st worthy QB to get the 5th year option in place, bring in a Taylor-type, and then cut either Haskins or the Taylor-type as camp progresses depending on who shows better.
I hope something like that isn't the approach they're leaning toward, but it's not like they didn't bring in Kent Graham and roll him out there once upon a time either.
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5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
I agree....at Offensive Tackle and Center. Maybe at ILB.
The "top" FA QB available is whom though? Guys like Rodgers and Wilson are going to require trades, so they're out. "Experts' seem to think it's Winston, coming off an ACL rehab. Ummm, I guess the Steelers'd lead the league in Publix crab legs acquired, if nothing else.
Given age, etc, the top two or three guys are probably Winston, Bridgewater and Trubisky. I'd wager they all are likely to get a lot more traction than I'm giving any of them credit for, so no idea what it might take to land any of them.
Next few rungs down and you're talking either older guys who have proven to be "meh" like Dalton, Fitzpatrick, and Taylor, a few guys that aren't totally "old" yet, but aren't "young" either, like Mariotta and maybe Brissett, etc., or "never was" types like McCarron, Rosen, et al.
Hell, I think I've talked myself full circle and now don't really want them to draft a QB early OR pick up a FA from anyone outside maybe two names from that group.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The offseason is wacky with people's attempts to drum up clicks, there's articles out saying the Steelers should trade a 2nd "and maybe more" for Justin Fields. You know, that player that the Bears spent multiple firsts, and more, to get.
The FO is doing their due diligence on QBs, as they should be, but the discussions between Tomlin and members of Willis' extended family have me worried that they're already revealing their interest. My hope is that the Steelers showing significant interest in QBs will mean they go out of our reach. Hopefully some combo of the Falcons, Panthers, Broncos, Eagles, Saints take QBs ahead of us. One of these top QBs will probably last until our pick in the 2nd, just take one then (Corral, Picket, Willis, Strong, Howell, Ridder). Or preferably, don't.
The FO is doing their due diligence on QBs, as they should be, but the discussions between Tomlin and members of Willis' extended family have me worried that they're already revealing their interest. My hope is that the Steelers showing significant interest in QBs will mean they go out of our reach. Hopefully some combo of the Falcons, Panthers, Broncos, Eagles, Saints take QBs ahead of us. One of these top QBs will probably last until our pick in the 2nd, just take one then (Corral, Picket, Willis, Strong, Howell, Ridder). Or preferably, don't.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Please don't waste that cap space on any overpriced FA QB. That's my biggest wish for this off season.
steelers1080
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Steelers interviewed Louis Riddick for GM job. Hopefully if he's given the job he won't be given any input in personnel decisions... His mock drafts, especially for the Steelers, are not great. He proposed Solomon Thomas over Myles Garrett because he was "safer". I'm sure every GM and GM candidate has had their blunders in personnel evaluation, but because Riddick has been in the media his are more apparent.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
With the cap space the Steelers are set to have, and the notion that players love Tomlin and Riddick, this could really be a free agent game changer for the organization.
My only thing is I suspect this won't be a long-term job for Riddick. He has too many other options. Longest he would stay is until Tomlin retired.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I doubt that long with the Steelers. Eventually he will be burned out or it will be truly time for a change.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
They are also reportedly going to interview Dowden and Dodds, who both have extensive scouting backgrounds, and have been a part of building some good teams.
Pass on Riddick. Has too much of a Mayock vibe.
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steelers1080
Footballguy
Tomlin is only 49 and definitely still has the drive. If the Steelers are able to get a franchise QB in the next 2-3 years, I would not be shocked if he sticks around as long as that QB. If the Steelers don't get a solid QB in the next 2-3 years and decline further, then he might not be given the opportunity to retire and might be asked to, or not renewed. I think that even if we have a crap QB, this is the type of team to win 6+ games each year based on Defense and RB alone. Idk how many 6-11 seasons it would take to move on, sounds like Art II is firmly in Tomlin's camp.
I doubt we'll ever know to what extent Mayock had control in Oakland/Vegas. I would not be shocked if Gruden made the decisions in round 1 and let Mayock take the later picks, like Crosby and Renfrow.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Maybe, but I'm not sold on Riddick at all. The other two guys I listed have the track records of success.
steelers1080
Footballguy
100%, I don't want Riddick, was just saying I don't see Tomlin walking away willingly for a long time.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Hilliard replaced at WR coach by Frisman Jackson. He was the WRs coach for the Panthers working with Moore and Curtis Samuel. Not sure how good he is, but Hilliard wasn't improving the WRs corps so I'm fine with a change. Some WRs were apparently upset about Hilliard not being renewed, but considering we only have 2 guys signed for next year they can get over it.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Frisman Jackson will always have that one huge fantasy Week One from, like, 2005 to point to, so I'm sure he'll get mad respect in the WR room quickly.
steelers1080
Footballguy
He was apparently the WR coach at NC State when Matt Canada was the OC there and our RB coach was the RB coach there, so there's previous experience with other staff.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Not sure whether that is a recipe for success or not -- a whole staff from NC State?
Hillard kind on unceremoniously non-renewed was a surprise. He didn't seem great though.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Ray Fittipaldo's first mock draft:
- Pick 20 - Trevor Penning, OT
- Pick 52 - Jalen Tolbert, WR
- Pick 84 - Travis Jones, NT
- 4th Round Comp Pick - Marquis Hayes, OL
- Pick 223 - Smoke Monday, S
- Pick 239 - Connor Heyward, HB/TE
steelers1080
Footballguy
My 2 favorite mocks for rounds 1-3 are a bit different than what I've been seeing. The first is WR/OT/DT and the second is LB/S/DT
- 1 - Jameson Williams, WR, Bama: An allstar WR that was projected to be a top 10 pick until he tore his ACL at the end of the year. He gets a ton of separation and was averaging over 20 yards per catch this season. The Steelers only have 2 WRs signed currently, and there are rumblings about a possible Claypool trade (though I doubt it). Chase is evidence of how a game changing WR corps can lead to team success.
- 2 - Darian Kinnard, OL, Kentucky: Graded out as one of the best run blockers in college football and could end up playing RT or Guard, both needs. By the time the draft rolls around he could be gone by pick 50, but right now he's a great option and would be a road grader for Najee for years to come.
- 3 - Perrion Winfrey, DT, Oklahoma: He dominated during the senior bowl and would be a solid asset on our D-line which may be very thin next year, and definitely by 2023 when Tuitt and Alualu will be free agents.
- 1 - Nakobe Dean, ILB, Georgia:
- 2 - Jalen Pitre, S, Baylor: He would be an immediate upgrade to Edmunds who has shown ability around the line of scrimmage as well as in coverage. He performed excellently all year and at the senior bowl against high end talent. He had many tackles for loss and a few sacks this year and we need a SS to pair with Minkah.
- 3 - Perrion Winfrey, DT, Oklahoma: Still the best option in a defense heavy draft.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Williams probably isn't doing much next year after his injury though. Might get a few games late on from him.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
I don't mind Penning at all. He's got an edge to him. Supposed to be strong as hell too. The competition question is going to be there, of course. Guys that big shouldn't be as athletic as he is though. I did a pile of mocks last week on a couple sites and he was the guy at OL that was consistently available at 20, FWIW.
I like Pitre, the player, a good bit. His size makes me worry he's going to be getting hurt...a lot...if he's going to be the same sort of "in the box" player he was at Baylor.
I like Pitre, the player, a good bit. His size makes me worry he's going to be getting hurt...a lot...if he's going to be the same sort of "in the box" player he was at Baylor.
Boone22
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Tomlin hasn't had a playoff win since 2016. The last five seasons, three playoff appearances and One Game And Done each time. I also find the "Name On The Back Of The Helmet" issue unsettling. Clearly all his players were not on board and he didn't care and it had nothing to do with winning football games.
The reality of the situation is the Rooney Rule is named after the owners of the Steelers. If there is only one black Super Bowl winning coach in the NFL right now and he's fired, what does that say when all that's left is Lovie Smith in his 60s and as a stop gap and Mike McDaniel whom many people won't consider as "really black"
Can Tomlin get this team to another Super Bowl? That's a looming question that is clouded by things other actually winning football games. The trend is clear
- Former non elite back up QB
- Former high level offensive coordinator/QB coach with top 5 offensive production and deep playoff runs
- Late 30s to early 40s in age range
- From a "hot" coaching tree. We've seen a massive number of coaches spawn from the Walsh and Belichick tree, and you could argue the Reid and Billick and Shanahan tree pushed out a good number of coaches as well. Right now the hottest coaching tree is McVay. That means the new hot young coaching candidate might be Zac Robinson of the Rams.
If it's not Tomlin, as of today, then it should be Ken Dorsey. Checks off all the boxes to help groom a QBOTF, which is the most critical issue in winning in the current trends of the game.
I don't see Tomlin without Big Ben making it. He's just wildly arrogant and without a HOF level QB1, that's just not going to work when losses mount. It's going to be one of those Bobby Bacala with his quotations book type situations. Tomlin's staged one liners seem interesting to fans when the team is winning, but if the team collapses, it will start to look like when Dave Stewart was too far removed from being a Cy Young winner and was still doing his death glare while being shelled game after game at the last couple of years of his career.
Core Walsh methodology is an absolute in the NFL - Better to get rid of someone a year too early than a year too late.
Steelers don't want to wait for the next wave of QBs coaches to turn into high level offensive coordinators. So many have been swept up in the last few offseason coaching cycles that if they don't move on Dorsey now, he might be gone by the time they realize it's time to move past Tomlin.
It's like Carmella Soprano arguing with her mother. She had to pay for every bit of the lifestyle Tony gave her, but her mother and especially her father's construction business got to ride for free. In this scenario, Big Ben is Carmella ( kind of fitting with the high maintenance diva routine) and Tomlin are the geriatric hanger ons.
This game is ruthless. You can't hang onto what someone did for you last year. Or hasn't done since 2016. If that's the case here, offer Tomlin something in the front office.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Daniel Jeremiah said on a podcast that everyone currently thinks that the Steelers are going to get Willis.
To pretty much guarantee he would be available we would probably need to trade up to 7 to get ahead of the Broncos and Atlanta. That would almost certainly take a future 1st. Two 1st round picks plus to get Willis is a terrible idea.
To pretty much guarantee he would be available we would probably need to trade up to 7 to get ahead of the Broncos and Atlanta. That would almost certainly take a future 1st. Two 1st round picks plus to get Willis is a terrible idea.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Preach.
Wonder who "everyone" is though? "Everyone currently sitting at Daniel Jeremiah's desk"?
Steeler
Footballguy
I was going to like this until your last sentence - not interested in drafting a QB this year (especially in the first round).
steelers1080
Footballguy
Todd McShay came away from the Senior Bowl pretty convinced the Steelers were very interested in the 1st round QBs, but during the senior bowl practice coverage there were multiple reports of how interested Tomlin/Rooney/Colbert were in Willis. This feels like it would require a similar trade to what KC did to get Mahomes, 1st, 3rd, future 1st. They moved from 27 to 10 and we'd probably have to move to 5 or 7 to get ahead of the other QB needy teams. That said, I highly doubt the end result would be the same. We don't have an Andy Reid or Eric Bieniemy to help Willis develop, and his game tape is not even close to NFL ready.Preach.
Wonder who "everyone" is though? "Everyone currently sitting at Daniel Jeremiah's desk"?
After rewatching game tape for the top 6 QBs it's very clear that none of them would be ready next season. None of them are great at ball placement, they struggle to hit pass catchers in stride, Willis especially can't control ball speed, everything comes out like a fastball even short passes, and they don't show any reliable pocket awareness. If Willis even feels a hint of a rush he takes off running, even if it's 3rd and long and he has no shot of getting a 1st down. In the Senior Bowl it was the end of the quarter and they had 1 play to get a TD and instead of taking a shot at the endzone he took off and ran. He gained a lot of yards but had 0 chance to score, and to me that showed a lack of situational awareness or overconfidence in his abilities.
The closer the draft gets the more I'm convinced that the Steelers are going to take a QB in the 1st round and it will be a big mistake.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Dumb dumb dumb if they give up that for Willis. Use your damn picks on other players, sign a stop gap QB and worry about drafting a QB another year. Willis is not a good passer and probably never will be. Reminds me of Jalen Hurts, who also couldn’t throw it that well and hasn’t improved from his Senior Bowl and I think Hurts is a better passer than Willis.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Sounds like something Tomlin would do. If they take him AND give up picks, they will be bad for a long time.
Not that my track record is perfect by any means, but that's an especially egregious call. Garrett was the most no-brainer #1 pick(that wasn't a QB) of the last 20 years. You probably have to go all the way back to Orlando Pace in 1997. Meanwhile, many people, including myself, didn't view Thomas as a top-10 pick, because he was a tweener between DE and DT.
I assumed that was one of the songs Snoop is gonna do at the Halftime show.
belljr
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't think they would trade 2 #1s and a #3, at least I hope they don't. Personally I wouldn't take Willis even he is sitting there at #20.
steelers1080
Footballguy
I'm hoping that Willis and Picket go top 11 and the Steelers FO is content to wait and see if any of QBs 3-6 last until our 2nd or 3rd round picks. It just feels like one or 2 of them are going to drop way more than expected currently. There is so much talent that will be there at 20 at positions of need, it would be a shame to waste that pick.
Are any of these QBs really that much better than Mason or Dwayne? None of them are very accurate, only Willis is especially mobile, none lead the pass catchers well or anticipate well, and all of them are bad at reading defenses...
Are any of these QBs really that much better than Mason or Dwayne? None of them are very accurate, only Willis is especially mobile, none lead the pass catchers well or anticipate well, and all of them are bad at reading defenses...
I think Sam Howell is pretty accurate, and pretty mobile. He's my favorite QB in the class, though he's likely not Week 1 ready like Pickett, who feels like he's gonna be another Teddy Bridgewater, where he's an NFL QB for sure, but not a guy you want long-term. Howell has sky-high upside in my opinion.
Strong is accurate, though a complete statue, and has more a 2nd round guy. Ridder reads defenses well.
I'd take any of these guys(or Willis, or Corral) over what they currently have, and I say that as a Rudolph defender. We saw this year how much the team can overcome poor QB play, so it probably makes sense to shoot for ceiling, which is Howell or Willis in my opinion.
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steelcityman
Footballguy
No QB in this class is worth trading up for. Save those picks to trade up next year, if they need to trade up. Fix OL, DL, iLB, WR with this years draft. Sign DBs in free agency, since the steelers dont know how to draft them, and OL(maybe C).
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steelers1080
Footballguy
https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2022/2/11/22929028/the-steelers-need-to-learn-how-to-keep-a-secret-pittsburgh-malik-willis-nfl-draft-rumor-mike-tomlin
This does feel really true of Tomlin and our Front Office, they hide their hand terribly because almost every 1st round pick gets a visit and dinner with Tomlin and Colbert. We got sniped for William Jackson III and in the year when all 3 ILB prospects went right before our pick. Everybody and their cousin seems to know the Steelers crushes before the draft day even arrives, except for Edmunds which wasn't a pleasant surprise.
It seems like they just can't be bothered to partake in that aspect of the gamesmanship, but that does seem to put us at a disadvantage. One can only hope that this year is a smokescreen and that they aren't really head over heels for Willis, but the Steelers don't seem to be operating with any ulterior motives. If the front office sends out vibes that they love a player, it's probably just true.
This does feel really true of Tomlin and our Front Office, they hide their hand terribly because almost every 1st round pick gets a visit and dinner with Tomlin and Colbert. We got sniped for William Jackson III and in the year when all 3 ILB prospects went right before our pick. Everybody and their cousin seems to know the Steelers crushes before the draft day even arrives, except for Edmunds which wasn't a pleasant surprise.
It seems like they just can't be bothered to partake in that aspect of the gamesmanship, but that does seem to put us at a disadvantage. One can only hope that this year is a smokescreen and that they aren't really head over heels for Willis, but the Steelers don't seem to be operating with any ulterior motives. If the front office sends out vibes that they love a player, it's probably just true.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I have a lot of respect for what Roethlisberger accomplished in his career. All good things must come to an end. From my perspective that includes Johnny Unitas, Bert Jones, Peyton Manning, and much too soon Andrew Luck. I especially have a special place in my heart for those that grew up in their formative years (teens to young adulthood) with one quarterback. When they retire it's like a death in the family. But let me assure you there will be others to replace that void and better times are ahead. Except for "insert team here".
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I agree.steelers1080 said:
They must feel confident they will get him because they haven't disguised interest. The part about them openly interviewing Malik's family is what made me think this isn't a smokescreen.
Willis is interesting. Huge upside.
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