If you think a QB switch will fix this, you are not paying attention. Canada has to go
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2023 Pittsburgh Steelers. Banged up team loses to Buffalo. Looking ahead to 2024 now (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godsbrother
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Sure, the Steelers offense didn't look great, but the Patriots defense is pretty solid. The NE D held the Dolphins last week to 13 points and 300 yards . . . and the Fins lit up the Ravens for 42 points and 550 yards. The Browns allowed 55 points combined to the Panthers and Jets. If the Steelers can't score against CLE, then there is a legit problem.
steelers1080
Footballguy
I was wrong. I thought signing Trubisky was a good idea to be a stop gap until they drafted a QB next year. We drafted the QB this year instead, and they should be starting him. They won't, but they should be.
Trubisky is missing reads, locking onto his 1st receiver option, and missing throws. His poor mechanics, always throwing off his back foot, are part of why he's so inaccurate. The game yesterday did not appear to have great play calling, but watching Trubisky stare down his 1st read or check down when WRs were open down field was not Canada's fault. They should have moved on from Canada after last season in my opinion, the non-stop runs on 1st down are killing me.
What they should do: Start Kenny Pickett this week against the Browns.
It's a short week, idgaf. If Trubisky gets hurt mid-game Pickett will be expected to be ready to go; he knows the playbook and imo looked more composed and dynamic in the pre-season. This also gives him 2 games to get acclimated before facing the Bills. At this point I think it's too late to move on from Canada, I don't think releasing him and promoting from within will help turn things around.
Some argue that starting a rookie before they're ready can "ruin them". In my opinion, this is only of they sustain major injury. Many great QBs were not so great their rookie season. We need to know by the end of 2022 if we have a QB we can work with or if Pickett is not the long term answer.
What they will do: Wait to start Pickett sometime after the bye.
Tomlin is too cautious and won't start Pickett unless Mitch gets hurt. If Mitch is replaced before the bye, I would not be shocked if Rudolph starts. I'm a Tomlin truther, but some of his personnel decisions rankle me. And his "we don't live in our fears" mantra is complete BS. Mitch will be given every opportunity to succeed, and then some. I don't think he gets pulled for Pickett until the season has already been f***ed.
I'm not sure Pickett is the answer, but I am 85% sure Trubisky is not the answer and that's enough for me. We're wasting a good defense with poor play calling and QB play. Ben might have won the game Saturday... a QB that isn't even in the league anymore. That's not a boast about Ben so much as a roast about our current state of affairs.
Trubisky is missing reads, locking onto his 1st receiver option, and missing throws. His poor mechanics, always throwing off his back foot, are part of why he's so inaccurate. The game yesterday did not appear to have great play calling, but watching Trubisky stare down his 1st read or check down when WRs were open down field was not Canada's fault. They should have moved on from Canada after last season in my opinion, the non-stop runs on 1st down are killing me.
What they should do: Start Kenny Pickett this week against the Browns.
It's a short week, idgaf. If Trubisky gets hurt mid-game Pickett will be expected to be ready to go; he knows the playbook and imo looked more composed and dynamic in the pre-season. This also gives him 2 games to get acclimated before facing the Bills. At this point I think it's too late to move on from Canada, I don't think releasing him and promoting from within will help turn things around.
Some argue that starting a rookie before they're ready can "ruin them". In my opinion, this is only of they sustain major injury. Many great QBs were not so great their rookie season. We need to know by the end of 2022 if we have a QB we can work with or if Pickett is not the long term answer.
What they will do: Wait to start Pickett sometime after the bye.
Tomlin is too cautious and won't start Pickett unless Mitch gets hurt. If Mitch is replaced before the bye, I would not be shocked if Rudolph starts. I'm a Tomlin truther, but some of his personnel decisions rankle me. And his "we don't live in our fears" mantra is complete BS. Mitch will be given every opportunity to succeed, and then some. I don't think he gets pulled for Pickett until the season has already been f***ed.
I'm not sure Pickett is the answer, but I am 85% sure Trubisky is not the answer and that's enough for me. We're wasting a good defense with poor play calling and QB play. Ben might have won the game Saturday... a QB that isn't even in the league anymore. That's not a boast about Ben so much as a roast about our current state of affairs.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Outsider's perspective is teams do weird #### all the time. Why did Belichick give a billion dollars to Hunter Henry, Jonnu Smith, Nelson Agholor and Kendrick Bourne? Why did Tomlin roll with a QB that literally everyone knows makes Jared Goff look good? Nobody knows. All I know is I took Pickett in the FBG auction draft and need Tomlin to come to his senses sooner rather than later. Mitch Trubisky has no business being a starting NFL QB.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So, who was the player that forgot to get on the field for the muffed punt? Apparently we only had 10 guys out there, which allowed for an untouched Patriot that contributed to the muff and recovery.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
There was a play in the 4th Q I think, Mitch was scrambling to his left and eventually he ends up in almost a curl up position on his side, only 1 defender on him, just looked awful when you didn't see what happened to begin with. He looks like an inferior NFL starting QB most fo the time.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Just thinking out loud . . . if PIT rolls with Pickett and he isn't ready, is there a chance they could ruin him moving forward? In the past, top QB prospects that started early on got rocked and became gun shy, and a lot of them didn't work out and never really developed. That's probably not as big a thing as in the past, but is PIT better off if Pickett comes in and looks worse that Mitch does? Yeah, I get that what we don't know about Pickett is likely more alluring than what we know about Trubisky . . . but maybe if they wait until the mid-point in the season Pickett might be on more solid ground? Or in today's NFL is it better to just throw rookie QBs out to the wolves and have them learn by doing?
apalmer
Footballguy
Wouldn't want to ruin him by playing him behind a bad offensive line like Cincy did with Burrow....oh, wait.....
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Agree
steelers1080
Footballguy
The argument against playing him is outweighed heavily by the benefits of playing him, in my opinion. He'll get real NFL experience which every QB needs and he's already an older rookie. He showed more decisive play during the preseason and better mechanics than Trubisky already. The longer we wait into the season, the less chance we get a really good look at what he's capable of.
We need to know prior to this upcoming draft which seems to have a handful of excellent QB prospects. Many amazing QBs started their rookie season paired with a mediocre/bad O-line and a solid defense and turned out just great. A lot of them had bad rookie seasons, but outside of injury, if a guy falls apart because he played poorly as a rookie, I'm not convinced he would have the mentality to be great. Peyton was terrible as a rookie, turned out pretty ok. Also, we need to see Kenny in Canada's offense. If Pickett only gets a few games at the end of the season to play, and he manages to go 2-1 or 3-1 then Tomlin might think, "Hey, Canada's offense is working with Pickett!" when it might be Pickett overcoming an obstacle. We need at least 8-9 games this season of them paired together.
There are more ideal conditions under which to start him, after fixing our O-line, replacing our offensive coordinator, and building up the Defense more, but you can't fix any of that during this season.
This season is not lost, but its potential might be if we don't switch sooner rather than later. Also, I'd rather have Pickett go 5-10 than have Trubisky go 7-8 the rest of the way. Either way we miss the playoffs, but one can hold us back for multiple seasons. Trubisky is being paid like a backup, lets just make the move.
All that said, I don't think Tomlin switches before the Bye, possibly not even until after the 2nd Bengals game. The best time to have started Pickett is last week so he'd have the Pats, Browns, and Jets to start with. The 2nd best time is this week. Let's hope that Tomlin at least goes for Option 3 of "After the Browns game."
Prediction: Tomlin starts Trubisky til the Bye and he looks godawful against the Dolphins and Eagles as we get blown out. He managed to win against the Browns and Jets, so we're 3 - 5 going into the Bye. Tomlin for some reason keeps Trubisky starting and he craters again against the Saints and Bengals. Now we're 3-7. THEN Tomlin decides to make the switch after hearing KENNY, KENNY, KENNY for 9 damn weeks. Kenny starts against the Colts and goes on a tear winning 6 of the final 7 games but 9-8 isn't good enough to make the playoffs.
Mitch has graded as an average NFL starter in both games this year. That is with terrible play calling. There is no chance Pickett can match that. I am still skeptical his career ceiling is that let alone his rookie play.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Pickett might be worse than Mitch, but it would be nice to figure that out ASAP since we have to make QB decisions moving forward. Mitch is not the long term answer in Pittsburgh. He was paid like a backup and the Steelers used a 1st round pick on a QB. Most people seem to be assuming that Pickett will start at some point during the season, why delay the inevitable?
Tomlin always says he doesn't live in his fears, but his actions are usually very conservative/cautious. There is sometimes benefit to staying the course and giving time to develop, but sometimes people show you who they are and what they're capable of, and you should believe them.
Most people think that. But Tomlin doesn't. As always, he is coaching to win
steelers1080
Footballguy
True, guess it's just a difference in philosophy and a disagreement on what gives the Steelers the best chance to win.
If he was coaching to win Trubisky would be on the bench. He is terrible.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
A screw up, no doubt, but that muff was 100% on Gunner. That was a super easy catch with zero wind on a bone-dry field.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The offensive line is bad - yes. The play calling sucks - yes. Trubisky has not looked good - yes. But I do not agree with starting Pickett in a short week.
IMO they need to open up the offense, extend vertically and use the middle of the field. Take advantage of Johnson, Pickens, Claypool and Freirmuth. Let Trubisky play a week with this kind of a game plan and if he sucks you bail on him and you have 10 days to prepare Pickett to start against the Jets.
IMO they need to open up the offense, extend vertically and use the middle of the field. Take advantage of Johnson, Pickens, Claypool and Freirmuth. Let Trubisky play a week with this kind of a game plan and if he sucks you bail on him and you have 10 days to prepare Pickett to start against the Jets.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Trubisky has never extended vertically or used the middle of the field, ever. How can we expect that to just start?
Also, he's not very good at it when he does take shots because of his poor mechanics and throwing off his back foot. There was a route last Sunday where Pickens ran a perfect comeback route and Trubisky threw it out of bounds 6-8 yards short of him, he was way off. Pickens threw his hands up like "C'mon, man".
The Steelers might win this Thursday, but I don't think it will be because of Trubisky so much as because our defense and playmakers. The highlights so far this year have come from WRs and TEs making plays on bad passes.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Well they went out and got Trubisky and had all offseason and preseason to look at him so they must have seen something they like. It may be possible that this is all they want in a QB and if that is the case switching to Pickett isn't going to solve that.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Gross. I guess the standard isn't the standard anymore. The Steelers striving for mediocrity at the most important position on the field.
I would assume that Trubisky wasn't the check down king during training camp since he wasn't going to get hit, and wasn't throwing every pass off balance. If they saw that all offseason and were like, "Yeah, this feels right." Then I have more concern about Tomlin. Hopefully he's watching these games going, this is not acceptable, even if we won. And if Trubisky does not improve quickly, hopefully he moves on. I truly believe this team has a chance to compete with any team, especially if Watt comes back healthy, but I don't think Trubisky can lead this team consistently.
I still believe that Tomlin is in the top 25% of coaches in the NFL, but if he plays Trubisky for 9+ games with no change in production then I'm going to start to question his judgement.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I do think there is a bit of "play conservative on offense and let the defense win the game" in Tomlin but I certainly don't think he is stupid and he will realize there is a big difference between playing conservative vs lethargic, which is what we have been seeing.
I think Canada/Trubisky gets this week and possibly next but if things don't improve he's going to need to make a change in the offense in either or both.
I know everyone in here thinks they ate experts, but Tomlin knows much more than you do about football. He also has way more information than you do.
PFF as a 3rd opinion says Mitch is playing decently, but you probably know more about evaluating film than they do.
PFF as a 3rd opinion says Mitch is playing decently, but you probably know more about evaluating film than they do.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Haha, fair. I agree that Tomlin knows way more about football, but there are 100% times when the head coaches think they know best but are overthinking things.
The Falcons head coach complaining that real football isn't fantasy football and they're just trying to win games to justify not utilizing Kyle Pitts. Ok, it's not fantasy football, but you draft a very talented tight end at #3 overall and need playmaking, it's obvious they should use their playmaker.
Or games where afterwards HC's say "We have to try and use X star player more." Yeah, you should, and you have direct control over that.
Just because they're well versed does not mean they don't make errors.
Tomlin certainly makes some mistakes. He hired Canada for 1. On the whole he is one of the best to ever walk the sidelines and they have a spot in Canton waiting for him.
apalmer
Footballguy
Well, so far it's certainly been a good week to rip the PITT passing game.
steelers1080
Footballguy
They might be missing both pass rushers then, Clowney already ruled out.
If the offense is stagnant in the 1st half, perfect time to give Kenny some play? Against a team that Joe Flacco just beat...
Godsbrother
Footballguy
While I think Trubisky should get the start on Thursday I absolutely agree to pull him if he stinks up the joint in the 1st half. If Tomlin was willing to yank Rudolph for Duck mid-game, he should be willing to do the same for Pickett.
Like us, Cleveland is not a good team right now and this should be a winnable game.
steelers1080
Footballguy
I wonder, if the Steelers suck like crazy on Thursday if Khan is like, this is not how my first season as GM is going to go, and he fires Canada and replaces him with Mike Sullivan. Other than waiting for the bye week, using a 10-day break is the next best time to implement serious change.
If the Steelers lose to the Browns with the offense scoring 14 or less points, and they make 0 changes before the game against the Jets... Yikes.
If the Steelers lose to the Browns with the offense scoring 14 or less points, and they make 0 changes before the game against the Jets... Yikes.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Did I read correctly that Canada does not allow for audibles on certain plays at all? Including just flipping the play from one side to the other?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
That is what Trubisky said which is bizarre considering that the reason he is starting over Pickett is his experience. If you're going to stick to the play called you might as well go with the rookie.
Incidentally, much of the Steelers come-backs last year were the result of Ben going no-huddle after giving up on the game plan.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Wasn't the touch down drive last week during the hurry-up offense when the QB has more control?
steelers1080
Footballguy
Expected, no. Hoped, maybe.
Canada Schmanada. with this O line no OC is likely to look good.
but yeah, hoped not expected, but at this point it appears likely i was wrong, hoping for improved O line play.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I think Tomlin is doing it right. I mean really why would you want to start a rookie QB against the Pats D. Let Mitch run the gauntlet through the Pats, Browns, Bills, Bucs, and bring in Pickett after the bye. This is by far the most rational approach and the right decision regardless of how the season ends up playing out.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
The downside is that if Trubisky doesn’t play better, the Steelers could lose every one of those games effectively knocking them out of a playoff shot. Wouldn’t it be nice for this team to be sitting close to .500 when Watt returns?
Tanner9919
Footballguy
any team that signs Trubisky to be their starting QB deserves to be a dog in hell with the devil pushing a vacuums at them for eternity. ala Family guy skit
This dude is the single worst high draft pick QB since Tim Couch. just a lousy stinkin job by the Steelers front office hiring the guy in the first place. stupidity 101
This dude is the single worst high draft pick QB since Tim Couch. just a lousy stinkin job by the Steelers front office hiring the guy in the first place. stupidity 101
steelers1080
Footballguy
Post-Bye we have Saints, Bengals, Ravens Twice, Colts, Raiders, Browns. The Colts have sucked recently but should be a good D, Browns will be good when healthy, Ravens always have our number, Saints are typically a good D, Raiders have 2 great pass rushers, it's not an easier stretch.
The easy stretch was Pats (weak O), Browns (all hurt with Brissett), and Jets...
The next weakest stretch might be 2 weeks after the bye, Colts followed by Falcons, depending on if the Colts managed to turn things around. That would leave 7 games in the season and most likely our season would have already been decided. Pickett might be able to save a winning season (9-8), or not, but there's not really a "perfect" time to give him the nod.
How many QBs have been "ruined" by playing them too early? David Carr, and who else? Also, Pickett isn't like Mahomes who probably benefitted a ton from sitting for a year. Mahomes' college game was nothing like running an offense in the NFL, he needed to sit to have a chance at success. Jordan Love sat too, how's that working out for him?
Pickett was selected, in part, because he should be ready to go and run an NFL offense. I'm firmly in the camp of QBs need to play to get experience and improve. Plenty of QBs drafted in the 1st round have started day 1 and turned out just fine. Trying to pick and choose the best time to get them out there just means you don't have confidence in their success.
We have a great D (with Watt), we have great playmakers, we have a crappy O-line but many of them are new so it could improve, we have a terrible OC, we currently have a bad QB. If this team comes out against the hapless Browns and gains less than 200 yards in the air and scores 1 TD on offense, they have to change something. I'm ok with them giving Canada the boot and giving Mitch a chance with the replacement OC (Mike Sullivan maybe? Not great, but hopefully not worse than Canada). But something has to change. Our offense is one of the worst in the entire NFL right now.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
For the night games (and sometimes day) I often DVR the game and then catchup to Live because I need to get the kids to bed etc. With Amazon doing a Live Stream, am I able to Watch From Start or am I going to click the Live Stream and just be watching in Real Time at whatever time I can get downstairs?
timschochet
Footballguy
I strongly doubt Tomlin is thinking about which opponents are tougher than others. It’s the NFL; they’re all really tough. The problem isn’t the opponents, it’s the offensive line. And it’s Canada’s play calling which is way too conservative. And it’s probably Trubisky’s decision making as well. All 3 are related.
steelers1080
Footballguy
There is a record option, but I'm not sure how it works.
Statorama
Footballguy
There's plenty of QBs that played early and failed, but it's hard to tell if they were "ruined" or were just overvalued in the first place (Couch? McNown? Throwin Samoan?). But for every Peyton Manning that played right away and worked through it, there's an Aaron Rogers that sat for a year and turned out to be great.
This Pickett situation reminds me a lot of when Carson Palmer was drafted by the Bengals and sat for a full year behind Jon Kitna. Kitna took every snap in 2003 with Palmer on the bench. Turned out ok for everyone involved, and Kitna proved to be a valuable backup/mentor/friend to Palmer when CP took the reins full time in 2004
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
From Amazon FAQ:
Go to any Thursday Night Football game and select “Record Thursday Night Football” or “Add to Watchlist and Record” to enable recordings for the full season. Enabling this feature before the game starts will provide you access to the full game replay and the ability to watch from the beginning if joining late. Enabling this feature during the game will provide you access to the full game replay only, but limited ability to scrub back to earlier in the broadcast. Enabling this feature after the game will provide you access to future game replays and the ability to watch from the beginning.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Prediction for Tonight's Game: Steelers and Browns both look inept, Steelers win 13-10, only TD coming on a Defensive TD. Trubisky throws for less than 200 yards again. Offense has changed 0% even after all the talk.
Prediction based on Steelers' Podcasts: Steelers and Browns look terrible in the 1st half, score is 6 - 3 Browns. Coming out of halftime Kenny Pickett runs onto the field and proceeds to throw a touchdown each to Pickens, Diontae, Claypool, and Muuuuuth. Warren also gets more snaps than Harris since Harris still looks a bit gun-shy. Steelers win 31-9.
Prediction based on Steelers' Podcasts: Steelers and Browns look terrible in the 1st half, score is 6 - 3 Browns. Coming out of halftime Kenny Pickett runs onto the field and proceeds to throw a touchdown each to Pickens, Diontae, Claypool, and Muuuuuth. Warren also gets more snaps than Harris since Harris still looks a bit gun-shy. Steelers win 31-9.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
You should be able to pause and rewind at any time the game is going on.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Daaaangerous pass
steelers1080
Footballguy
Well, Pickens looked amazing when he got opportunities. That final missed TD would have been an easy TD if it was on target instead of almost a pick. Would have had the kickoff prior to the 2 minute warning with 1 timeout.
Also, we scored 17 against the Browns. The Jets scored 31 and the Panthers scored 24.
Mitch looked decent at times, but we went 3 and out too often. Also, those passes over the middle to Muth were there all game, especially after BOTH of their LBs went down. Not sure if that is more Canada's fault or Mitch's, probably a combo.
I think a 2% chance that Pickett plays next week against the Jets, I just don't see Tomlin making a change unless Mitch gets hurt. He'll point to the 2 good drives and not all the 3 and outs. Some people will blame the D but they're gassed and I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that the offense can put up more than 23 points in today's NFL.
Before the season I thought the Steelers might be a 10-11 win team based on our Defense and offensive playmakers, even with Mitch and the weak O-line. But I also thought we might start the year 3-1. Now, if Mitch starts 17, I think we maybe win 6. Pickett might not do better, but I think he has more upside. At this point there's little to lose; don't start Pickett, miss the playoffs, do start Pickett, who knows. Flacco has always been decent against the Steelers, I think if Mitch plays next Sunday, we lose.
Also, we scored 17 against the Browns. The Jets scored 31 and the Panthers scored 24.
Mitch looked decent at times, but we went 3 and out too often. Also, those passes over the middle to Muth were there all game, especially after BOTH of their LBs went down. Not sure if that is more Canada's fault or Mitch's, probably a combo.
I think a 2% chance that Pickett plays next week against the Jets, I just don't see Tomlin making a change unless Mitch gets hurt. He'll point to the 2 good drives and not all the 3 and outs. Some people will blame the D but they're gassed and I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that the offense can put up more than 23 points in today's NFL.
Before the season I thought the Steelers might be a 10-11 win team based on our Defense and offensive playmakers, even with Mitch and the weak O-line. But I also thought we might start the year 3-1. Now, if Mitch starts 17, I think we maybe win 6. Pickett might not do better, but I think he has more upside. At this point there's little to lose; don't start Pickett, miss the playoffs, do start Pickett, who knows. Flacco has always been decent against the Steelers, I think if Mitch plays next Sunday, we lose.
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