2025 Cleveland Browns - JOK Out for the Season (7 Viewers)

[amnesiac]

Is Cam Ward some obvious must take QB? I have no idea, haven't watched him.

Edit,....just watched a highlight reel. Honestly not that impressed.

Ward made a big jump this year, not unlike Jayden Daniels last year (not saying he's in that tier). I think he has a huge arm, nice accurary, and good athleticism. Seems like a first round pick but probably not a slam dunk top 3 pick. I think Cleveland should be very interested in him if he's not taken 1.

i honestly think they don't have much choice.

gotta take a QB and hope they can get him up to speed.

No.
We are already set back a few years, let's not set ourselves back a few more.
If he's the guy sure, but no to taking a QB just to take a QB

if they don't hit on a QB, they're done anyway.

they don't care if they set the franchise back a few more years.

 

[ghostguy123]

Is Cam Ward some obvious must take QB? I have no idea, haven't watched him.

Edit,....just watched a highlight reel. Honestly not that impressed.

Ward made a big jump this year, not unlike Jayden Daniels last year (not saying he's in that tier). I think he has a huge arm, nice accurary, and good athleticism. Seems like a first round pick but probably not a slam dunk top 3 pick. I think Cleveland should be very interested in him if he's not taken 1.

i honestly think they don't have much choice.

gotta take a QB and hope they can get him up to speed.

No.
We are already set back a few years, let's not set ourselves back a few more.
If he's the guy sure, but no to taking a QB just to take a QB

if they don't hit on a QB, they're done anyway.

they don't care if they set the franchise back a few more years.

I've already said I'm on board with cutting watson, trading everyone, and trading the #2 pick.
Barring a miracle QB pick we are gonna suck for a while anyway

 

[Hankmoody]

I've already said I'm on board with cutting watson, trading everyone, and trading the #2 pick.
Barring a miracle QB pick we are gonna suck for a while anyway

This team made the playoffs two years ago with Flacco. Serious question, I haven't followed CLE closely lately, but has so much changed that the core talent can't get back there quickly?

 

[IHEARTFF]

Is Cam Ward some obvious must take QB? I have no idea, haven't watched him.

Edit,....just watched a highlight reel. Honestly not that impressed.

Ward made a big jump this year, not unlike Jayden Daniels last year (not saying he's in that tier). I think he has a huge arm, nice accurary, and good athleticism. Seems like a first round pick but probably not a slam dunk top 3 pick. I think Cleveland should be very interested in him if he's not taken 1.

i honestly think they don't have much choice.

gotta take a QB and hope they can get him up to speed.

No.
We are already set back a few years, let's not set ourselves back a few more.
If he's the guy sure, but no to taking a QB just to take a QB

if they don't hit on a QB, they're done anyway.

they don't care if they set the franchise back a few more years.

12/14 playoff teams have a 1st round qb and 1 of those 2 is Russ whose team will be demolished

 

[ghostguy123]

I've already said I'm on board with cutting watson, trading everyone, and trading the #2 pick.
Barring a miracle QB pick we are gonna suck for a while anyway

This team made the playoffs two years ago with Flacco. Serious question, I haven't followed CLE closely lately, but has so much changed that the core talent can't get back there quickly?

Quickly? Sure, add in a stud QB for cheap and we can get back.
Otherwise if we take a rookie QB who will eventually be good the core guys will be old and washed by then.

 

[MAC_32]

Watson suffers setback in recovery

Came here to post this. How convenient this is for CLE. This sets the stage for them to fail his physical next year and get out from a big portion of the albatross that contract is on the cap. If he can't pass the physical, which in my mind is a foregone conclusion, they can waive him with an injury settlement and only eat $80M on the cap - and if they designate him a post-June 1st cut (not sure they can on injury settlements) it could only be $28M on 2025 with the balance pushed to 2026.

I can't be convinced there is not orchestrated tomfoolery afoot between both parties.

 

[MAC_32]

I've already said I'm on board with cutting watson, trading everyone, and trading the #2 pick.
Barring a miracle QB pick we are gonna suck for a while anyway

This team made the playoffs two years ago with Flacco. Serious question, I haven't followed CLE closely lately, but has so much changed that the core talent can't get back there quickly?

You'll get a different answer depending on you ask. I don't think this team is nearly as bad as we saw last year. I think the front office / coaching staff saw this coming a mile away, that's why they're still here. They told Jimmy / DePodesta what was going to happen with Watson under center, they were ordered to move forward anyway. That's why we saw this time last year them fixing something that wasn't broken. Unlike the others, Van Pelt wasn't on board, so he got pushed out, then Callahan followed him out. Pretty sure I wrote it here, but the moves they made were to put Watson in a position to be successful...or the scapegoat.

The players then saw what was already known soon after reporting to camp. This guy can't play. And disengaged. This year was so sloppy and unfocused because of that, they had zero faith in the most important position in sports from day one at the Greenbriar. Why else would a team rally behind the fourth QB of the season a middle aged dad to rally into the playoffs then turn around and do...this...less than a year later. Don't get me wrong, I have concerns about the age of this core. I'm nervous about trying to fix this with 2025 in mind vs something sustainable going forward, I'm just saying the situation is not as dire as many think.

 

[amnesiac]

Watson suffers setback in recovery

Came here to post this. How convenient this is for CLE. This sets the stage for them to fail his physical next year and get out from a big portion of the albatross that contract is on the cap. If he can't pass the physical, which in my mind is a foregone conclusion, they can waive him with an injury settlement and only eat $80M on the cap - and if they designate him a post-June 1st cut (not sure they can on injury settlements) it could only be $28M on 2025 with the balance pushed to 2026.

I can't be convinced there is not orchestrated tomfoolery afoot between both parties.

fair. but the insurance company has millions of reasons to discover if that's true.

 

[Hankmoody]

fair. but the insurance company has millions of reasons to discover if that's true.

Impossible to dispute, the injury was on national television. Watson isn't gonna help them, he'll get his payday and fade off into nothingness and not even have to pretend to report to work for it.

 

[ghostguy123]

fair. but the insurance company has millions of reasons to discover if that's true.

Impossible to dispute, the injury was on national television. Watson isn't gonna help them, he'll get his payday and fade off into nothingness and not even have to pretend to report to work for it.

I kinda hope so.
It would be weird though to have a reported setback, like, now though.

 

[Soulfly3]

Ward is a good QB. Potential to be quite good.

He's absolutely the pick at 2.... Problem is, I think he goes 1. Which then changes the convo to Shadeur. At which point, we have a problem.

 

[amnesiac]

fair. but the insurance company has millions of reasons to discover if that's true.

Impossible to dispute, the injury was on national television. Watson isn't gonna help them, he'll get his payday and fade off into nothingness and not even have to pretend to report to work for it.

nobody is disputing the original injury, the dispute would be if they are slow-rolling the recovery.

maybe there's an independent medical examiner that has to sign off on the claim?

i'm not really sure how it works.

 

[MAC_32]

fair. but the insurance company has millions of reasons to discover if that's true.

Impossible to dispute, the injury was on national television. Watson isn't gonna help them, he'll get his payday and fade off into nothingness and not even have to pretend to report to work for it.

nobody is disputing the original injury, the dispute would be if they are slow-rolling the recovery.

maybe there's an independent medical examiner that has to sign off on the claim?

i'm not really sure how it works.

If I'm right, and they play this right, it'll be very difficult if not impossible to prove.

The timeline for recovery from an achilles tear has improved in recent years, but that is if one puts in the work. Does Watson actually have the motivation to do that? I'd argue the opposite. If he can collect his cash and never play for the Browns again, I think he'll consider that a win. The Browns are obviously motivated to let this drag out as well- the longer he's out, the more cap space they recoup via insurance. Will they be able to milk it the whole season? I think so. It can easily take a year to return to competition. The timing of this 'setback' announcement is also very convenient as it essentially resets the clock. 'Setback' can also mean many different things, anywhere from a re-tear to it doesn't feel right.

Will the insurance company be motivated to prove fraud? Yes, of course. Will they apply more resources given the money at stake? Oh, yeah. Will they be able to actually develop a case? Well...

 

[ffmail4me]

So what are the Chances of Chubb returning to pre-injury form? Are we holding out hope or no?

 

[amnesiac]

So what are the Chances of Chubb returning to pre-injury form? Are we holding out hope or no?

hard to say.

he looked good at times, and clearly he still has the strength.

it’s really down to if he can regain his burst.

it wont be for lack of trying.

 

[amnesiac]

Stefanski has lost his grace

 

[MAC_32]

So what are the Chances of Chubb returning to pre-injury form? Are we holding out hope or no?

My opinion is little different than before the season. He was never going to be himself in 2024, it was all a matter of how close could he get. As amnesiac said, his burst wasn't there, but everything else was. This is the offseason we find out if he can regain that juice, but that won't play itself out until after games start. Hope for some tea leaves once camp opens, but I'd be surprised if there's any good news between now and then- it can only be bad.

 

[menobrown]

Re-rupturing his achilles should all but guarantee the Browns getting an unexpected $44m in cap space in 2026.

 

[Joe Schmo]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/can-browns-cut-deshaun-watson-contract/

Have no idea what the insurance does for the contract but at some point the Browns have to gulp hard and swallow. I'm not mad.

 

[ghostguy123]

How exactly does this insurance work?
It gives us back cap space?? Watson obviously still gets paid I would assume, correct?

 

[menobrown]

How exactly does this insurance work?
It gives us back cap space?? Watson obviously still gets paid I would assume, correct?

If he can't play in 2025 his contract is insured for $44m. Watson of course gets paid, but the insurance company would owe the Browns $44m and yes they would get that cap space back but not till 2026.

I don't know what insurance they bought on his contract past 2025. I don't know what happens if he's deemed healthy enough to play at some point in 2025, would guess insurance would pay $2.58M per game he's not deemed healthy enough to play.

And of course the Browns would like to say he's not going to be healthy enough to play at any point next year to recoup all the $44M but to get that money it would need to be properly documented and likely stand up to an insurance company investigation.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

How exactly does this insurance work?
It gives us back cap space?? Watson obviously still gets paid I would assume, correct?

If he can't play in 2025 his contract is insured for $44m. Watson of course gets paid, but the insurance company would owe the Browns $44m and yes they would get that cap space back but not till 2026.

I don't know what insurance they bought on his contract past 2025. I don't know what happens if he's deemed healthy enough to play at some point in 2025, would guess insurance would pay $2.58M per game he's not deemed healthy enough to play.

And of course the Browns would like to say he's not going to be healthy enough to play at any point next year to recoup all the $44M but to get that money it would need to be properly documented and likely stand up to an insurance company investigation.

If the Browns get 44mil in cap space in 2026, they could potentially cut him and only have ~35mil in dead cap on his contract. Not exactly great, but not bad considering.

 

[menobrown]

How exactly does this insurance work?
It gives us back cap space?? Watson obviously still gets paid I would assume, correct?

If he can't play in 2025 his contract is insured for $44m. Watson of course gets paid, but the insurance company would owe the Browns $44m and yes they would get that cap space back but not till 2026.

I don't know what insurance they bought on his contract past 2025. I don't know what happens if he's deemed healthy enough to play at some point in 2025, would guess insurance would pay $2.58M per game he's not deemed healthy enough to play.

And of course the Browns would like to say he's not going to be healthy enough to play at any point next year to recoup all the $44M but to get that money it would need to be properly documented and likely stand up to an insurance company investigation.

If the Browns get 44mil in cap space in 2026, they could potentially cut him and only have ~35mil in dead cap on his contract. Not exactly great, but not bad considering.

Even if they get 2025 covered they still owe him right around $100M guaranteed and all that would be a dead cap hit.

 

[MAC_32]

Even if they get 2025 covered they still owe him right around $100M guaranteed and all that would be a dead cap hit.

Quick skim, I don't think it's quite that much, but regardless the $ will be spread out. Assuming he's cut in 2026 I believe these are the Browns responsibilities assuming $44m in cap relief via insurance.

Cut pre June 1
2026- $56m
2027- $18m
2028- $9m

Cut post June 1
2026- $29m
2027- $45m
2028- $9m

Based on that, I suspect this news results in them seeing what a pre June 1 cut looks like. For future roll over purposes, post June 1 may still make the most sense, but there's at least a conversation now whereas before pre June 1 wasn't feasible.

 

[menobrown]

Even if they get 2025 covered they still owe him right around $100M guaranteed and all that would be a dead cap hit.

Quick skim, I don't think it's quite that much, but regardless the $ will be spread out. Assuming he's cut in 2026 I believe these are the Browns responsibilities assuming $44m in cap relief via insurance.

Cut pre June 1
2026- $56m
2027- $18m
2028- $9m

Cut post June 1
2026- $29m
2027- $45m
2028- $9m

Based on that, I suspect this news results in them seeing what a pre June 1 cut looks like. For future roll over purposes, post June 1 may still make the most sense, but there's at least a conversation now whereas before pre June 1 wasn't feasible.

It's that much and of course they can spread it out but they'll be spreading out $100M.

This is what they owe on the cap after the 2025 season.

$46m base
$53.826M in prorated bonus.

This all goes to dead cap space if cut. Unless they re-structure his contract again if he's cut before June 1 in 2026 they'll have to deal with about a $100M dead cap hit on their 2026 books. If they cut him with a post June 1 designation this drops to $72m on the 2026 books and $26m would carry over.

 

[amnesiac]

I’m the last one to understand all the cap stuff, but don’t they also have some cap rollover from 24 into 25 as well?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Watson suffers setback in recovery

Came here to post this. How convenient this is for CLE. This sets the stage for them to fail his physical next year and get out from a big portion of the albatross that contract is on the cap. If he can't pass the physical, which in my mind is a foregone conclusion, they can waive him with an injury settlement and only eat $80M on the cap - and if they designate him a post-June 1st cut (not sure they can on injury settlements) it could only be $28M on 2025 with the balance pushed to 2026.

"Hey Coach, I'm ready for my first day of rehab!"
"Great to have you back, Deshaun! The team doctor suggests you start off by running the three-cone shuttle drill for two hours straight. He says that will really help strengthen your Achilles."
"Um, OK. Should I stretch first?"
"We'd prefer you didn't"

 

[Hankmoody]

"Hey Coach, I'm ready for my first day of rehab!"
"Great to have you back, Deshaun! The team doctor suggests you start off by running the three-cone shuttle drill for two hours straight. He says that will really help strengthen your Achilles."
"Um, OK. Should I stretch first?"
"We'd prefer you didn't"

Even better, he rolled it on his own and it re-tore the achilles.

Convenient.

Browns' Watson tears Achilles again, has surgery

Cleveland Browns QB Deshaun Watson underwent surgery Thursday after tearing his Achilles for a second time, the team announced, adding that Watson "will likely miss significant time during the 2025 season."

www.espn.com

 

[Hankmoody]

$46m base
$53.826M in prorated bonus.

This all goes to dead cap space if cut. Unless they re-structure his contract again if he's cut before June 1 in 2026 they'll have to deal with about a $100M dead cap hit on their 2026 books. If they cut him with a post June 1 designation this drops to $72m on the 2026 books and $26m would carry over.

They don't need to cut him if it's insured and pays out, they can just put him on IR and get it credited back. I'm speculating that if they release him with an injury settlement then 2026 would also be credited but there may be funky stuff with that and they might just have to hold him through 2025 first.

 

[Joe Schmo]

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2025/01/10/browns-deshaun-watson-contract-insurance-meaning/

 

[MAC_32]

I’m the last one to understand all the cap stuff, but don’t they also have some cap rollover from 24 into 25 as well?

Yes, probably $40+ million, allowing them to spend more than everyone else in the league again. With this future relief waiting in 2026 they don't have to be as restrictive this year if they find good buys.

 

[Wingnut]

I’m the last one to understand all the cap stuff, but don’t they also have some cap rollover from 24 into 25 as well?

Yes, probably $40+ million, allowing them to spend more than everyone else in the league again.

Yep. Cleveland has the 2nd most rollover in the league behind San Francisco.

NFL Teams Finalize 2025 Salary Cap Carryover | Over the Cap

NFL Teams Finalize 2025 Salary Cap Carryover | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

 

[amnesiac]

I just saw a mock suggesting the Browns take a RB at 1.2, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen all week.

 

[amnesiac]

Why Browns jumped on Bloomgren

 

[Bracie Smathers]

can't ever trade Myles. Do whatever it takes to keep him and build around him.
One great defensive player that takes down the QB is a difference maker.
Offenses require nearly every single player to do their job, with 'near' perfect timing. If one offensive player breaks down, moves too soon, too far left/right or misses an assignment, the play blows up.
If ten of eleven defensive players suck but one stud blows up the play, the offensive play blows up.
Myles is that guy. We can't ever trade him because he may go down as the best defensive end in NFL history. We keep him at all costs and build around him. Rookie QB be damned.

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

​

Browns Sacks
Name	Sacks
Myles Garrett	14.0
Za'Darius Smith	5.0
Dalvin Tomlinson	3.0
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	3.0
Ogbonnia Okoronkwo	3.0
Isaiah McGuire	2.5
Jordan Hicks	2.0
Shelby Harris	1.5
Quinton Jefferson	1.0
Michael Hall	1.0
Devin Bush	1.0
Cameron Thomas	1.0
Alex Wright	1.0
Grant Delpit	1.0
Maurice Hurst	0.5
Winston Reid	0.5

​

 

[MAC_32]

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

Well, yeah. Moving Myles means not trying to compete now. I don't think it's something they'll do, but that's the start of the hypothetical if-then

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

Well, yeah. Moving Myles means not trying to compete now. I don't think it's something they'll do, but that's the start of the hypothetical if-then

I posted that yesterday at:

• Yesterday at 2:21 PM

Almost 24 hours later we get this.
-------------------------------------------------
Zac Jackson
@AkronJackson
Andrew Berry said at the Senior Bowl today he wouldn't listen to any offers for Myles Garrett and the Browns are not trading their star pass rusher
2:31 PM · Jan 28, 2025

 

[ghostguy123]

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

Well, yeah. Moving Myles means not trying to compete now. I don't think it's something they'll do, but that's the start of the hypothetical if-then

I posted that yesterday at:

• Yesterday at 2:21 PM

Almost 24 hours later we get this.
-------------------------------------------------
Zac Jackson
@AkronJackson
Andrew Berry said at the Senior Bowl today he wouldn't listen to any offers for Myles Garrett and the Browns are not trading their star pass rusher
2:31 PM · Jan 28, 2025

Another one of those "I have to say something like this" responses

 

[ghostguy123]

can't ever trade Myles. Do whatever it takes to keep him and build around him.
One great defensive player that takes down the QB is a difference maker.
Offenses require nearly every single player to do their job, with 'near' perfect timing. If one offensive player breaks down, moves too soon, too far left/right or misses an assignment, the play blows up.
If ten of eleven defensive players suck but one stud blows up the play, the offensive play blows up.
Myles is that guy. We can't ever trade him because he may go down as the best defensive end in NFL history. We keep him at all costs and build around him. Rookie QB be damned.

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

​

Browns Sacks
Name	Sacks
Myles Garrett	14.0
Za'Darius Smith	5.0
Dalvin Tomlinson	3.0
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	3.0
Ogbonnia Okoronkwo	3.0
Isaiah McGuire	2.5
Jordan Hicks	2.0
Shelby Harris	1.5
Quinton Jefferson	1.0
Michael Hall	1.0
Devin Bush	1.0
Cameron Thomas	1.0
Alex Wright	1.0
Grant Delpit	1.0
Maurice Hurst	0.5
Winston Reid	0.5

​

Myles can have 45 sacks next year and we'd win 5 games.

 

[amnesiac]

can't ever trade Myles. Do whatever it takes to keep him and build around him.
One great defensive player that takes down the QB is a difference maker.
Offenses require nearly every single player to do their job, with 'near' perfect timing. If one offensive player breaks down, moves too soon, too far left/right or misses an assignment, the play blows up.
If ten of eleven defensive players suck but one stud blows up the play, the offensive play blows up.
Myles is that guy. We can't ever trade him because he may go down as the best defensive end in NFL history. We keep him at all costs and build around him. Rookie QB be damned.

If we lose Myles, we have no pass rush.

​

Browns Sacks
Name	Sacks
Myles Garrett	14.0
Za'Darius Smith	5.0
Dalvin Tomlinson	3.0
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	3.0
Ogbonnia Okoronkwo	3.0
Isaiah McGuire	2.5
Jordan Hicks	2.0
Shelby Harris	1.5
Quinton Jefferson	1.0
Michael Hall	1.0
Devin Bush	1.0
Cameron Thomas	1.0
Alex Wright	1.0
Grant Delpit	1.0
Maurice Hurst	0.5
Winston Reid	0.5

​

Myles can have 45 sacks next year and we'd win 5 games.

That's preposterous!!

We'd win at least 6!!!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

So, you're saying sacks mean nothing?
Ok, let's look at the three games we won.
1st win the Jags sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 2 sacks = win
2nd win the Baltimore Ravens sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 3 times for a positive 1 sack = win
3rd win the Pittsburgh Steelers sacked us 1 time, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 3 sacks = win
In the three games we won the opponent sacked us a combined 5 times.
In the three games we won Myles Garrett sacked the opponent 5 times alone equaling the three teams combined defenders/pass rushers.
In the 13 games we lost the opponent sacked us a combined 61 times or 4.7 times per game.
In the 13 games we lost we sacked the opponent a combined 30 times or 1.7 times per game.
Hmmnn, looks like sacks mean something especially in terms of games won and lost.

 

[Snotbubbles]

So, you're saying sacks mean nothing?
Ok, let's look at the three games we won.
1st win the Jags sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 2 sacks = win
2nd win the Baltimore Ravens sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 3 times for a positive 1 sack = win
3rd win the Pittsburgh Steelers sacked us 1 time, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 3 sacks = win
In the three games we won the opponent sacked us a combined 5 times.
In the three games we won Myles Garrett sacked the opponent 5 times alone equaling the three teams combined defenders/pass rushers.
In the 13 games we lost the opponent sacked us a combined 61 times or 4.7 times per game.
In the 13 games we lost we sacked the opponent a combined 30 times or 1.7 times per game.
Hmmnn, looks like sacks mean something especially in terms of games won and lost.

Eagles got rid of their top sack guy from 2023 (Haasan Reddick - 11.0 (16.0 in 2022)) and did ok. I said this in the Garrett player thread. Garrett turns 30 this year. Two questions.

1. How much longer does he have being a dominant player?

2. How many years is it going to take for Cleveland to build a contender around him? If the answer to this question is 1 or 2, keep him. If the answer to this question is 3+, trade him for a haul.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What is step-1 for Cleveland?
They retained their head coach after going 3-14? Stefanski has two 11-win seasons out of 5 for Cleveland, considering it's the Browns I can understand why they retained him

-What is happening at Quarterback? I don't think anyone on these boards truly knows what the plan is. Can Watson even return in 2025? I heard he tore the achilles again somehow while he was recovering from the 1st achilles tear, that would seem like a career crippler. Is it possible he never throws an NFL pass again? Whatever the outcome it seems like Cleveland would be wise to draft another QB and either Sanders or Cam Ward seem like an easy selection. I think Cam Ward is pretty wild and a little too sure of himself after watching all of his football games this year. He is easily the best QB to ever put on a Hurricanes Jersey since Vinny Testaverde won the Heisman in '86. He's definitely that good but is he as good as other recent Top 5-10 QB picks over the last 3 years? There is a reason he decided to come back and transfer to Miami.

What is the situation with the OL and DL? That's where you win football games. Do they need to go in a new direction at RB? The Draft has a lot of names
The Draft has some quality QBs IMHO in the 2nd-3rd-4th round range, any chance the Browns would want to do something else at No 2 instead of Sanders/Ward, what about Hunter?
Then go get a QB in the 2nd or early 3rd, that's what Pete Carroll's plan will likely be for LVR, just saying there are other ways to approach this off season

 

[ghostguy123]

So, you're saying sacks mean nothing?
Ok, let's look at the three games we won.
1st win the Jags sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 2 sacks = win
2nd win the Baltimore Ravens sacked us 2 times, we sacked them 3 times for a positive 1 sack = win
3rd win the Pittsburgh Steelers sacked us 1 time, we sacked them 4 times for a positive 3 sacks = win
In the three games we won the opponent sacked us a combined 5 times.
In the three games we won Myles Garrett sacked the opponent 5 times alone equaling the three teams combined defenders/pass rushers.
In the 13 games we lost the opponent sacked us a combined 61 times or 4.7 times per game.
In the 13 games we lost we sacked the opponent a combined 30 times or 1.7 times per game.
Hmmnn, looks like sacks mean something especially in terms of games won and lost.

I agree.....which is why this team needs to suck for a couple years (on purpose) and try and build a team.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Eagles got rid of their top sack guy from 2023 (Haasan Reddick - 11.0 (16.0 in 2022)) and did ok.

Haasan Reddick is 6'1 and 240 lbs. He has 59 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
Myles Garrett is 6'4 and 272 lbs. He has 102.5 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
He has won the past two consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards.
Hassan Reddick over the past two years has 36 solo tackles, 0 blocked kicks, and 2 forced fumbles.
Myles Garrett over the past two years has 73 solo tackles, 2 blocked kicks, and 7 forced fumbles and faces double and triple teams and forces opponents to game-plan specifically for him.
Myles has had virtually nothing in terms of complimentary pass rushers to take heat off of him.
Reddick was part of a deep rotation of pass rushers that included Brandon Graham, Jalen Carter, Fletcher Cox, and Jordan Davis.
Myles Garrett is a first ballot HOFer.
Haasan is not and isn't comparable to Myles nor is any player in the league at this time and the team has announced they aren't dealing at any price.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Eagles got rid of their top sack guy from 2023 (Haasan Reddick - 11.0 (16.0 in 2022)) and did ok.

Haasan Reddick is 6'1 and 240 lbs. He has 59 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
Myles Garrett is 6'4 and 272 lbs. He has 102.5 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
He has won the past two consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards.
Hassan Reddick over the past two years has 36 solo tackles, 0 blocked kicks, and 2 forced fumbles.
Myles Garrett over the past two years has 73 solo tackles, 2 blocked kicks, and 7 forced fumbles and faces double and triple teams and forces opponents to game-plan specifically for him.
Myles has had virtually nothing in terms of complimentary pass rushers to take heat off of him.
Reddick was part of a deep rotation of pass rushers that included Brandon Graham, Jalen Carter, Fletcher Cox, and Jordan Davis.
Myles Garrett is a first ballot HOFer.
Haasan is not and isn't comparable to Myles nor is any player in the league at this time and the team has announced they aren't dealing at any price.

Keep Garrett, then. I don't really care, I would trade the guy.

 

[amnesiac]

30/13=2.308

 

[ghostguy123]

Eagles got rid of their top sack guy from 2023 (Haasan Reddick - 11.0 (16.0 in 2022)) and did ok.

Haasan Reddick is 6'1 and 240 lbs. He has 59 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
Myles Garrett is 6'4 and 272 lbs. He has 102.5 sacks in the 8 years he's played in the league.
He has won the past two consecutive Defensive Player of the Year awards.
Hassan Reddick over the past two years has 36 solo tackles, 0 blocked kicks, and 2 forced fumbles.
Myles Garrett over the past two years has 73 solo tackles, 2 blocked kicks, and 7 forced fumbles and faces double and triple teams and forces opponents to game-plan specifically for him.
Myles has had virtually nothing in terms of complimentary pass rushers to take heat off of him.
Reddick was part of a deep rotation of pass rushers that included Brandon Graham, Jalen Carter, Fletcher Cox, and Jordan Davis.
Myles Garrett is a first ballot HOFer.
Haasan is not and isn't comparable to Myles nor is any player in the league at this time and the team has announced they aren't dealing at any price.

Do we expect Myles to do BETTER in the coming couple years??
As awesome as he was the last couple years......zero playoff wins and we got the #2 pick this year. I also don't expect the rest of the supporting cast to magically get better especially with the Watson contract.
I'm in favor of trading him for the right compensation. Two 1sts from a team like Philly probably does NOT do it for me.

 

[MAC_32]

What is step-1 for Cleveland?
They retained their head coach after going 3-14? Stefanski has two 11-win seasons out of 5 for Cleveland, considering it's the Browns I can understand why they retained him

-What is happening at Quarterback? I don't think anyone on these boards truly knows what the plan is. Can Watson even return in 2025? I heard he tore the achilles again somehow while he was recovering from the 1st achilles tear, that would seem like a career crippler. Is it possible he never throws an NFL pass again? Whatever the outcome it seems like Cleveland would be wise to draft another QB and either Sanders or Cam Ward seem like an easy selection. I think Cam Ward is pretty wild and a little too sure of himself after watching all of his football games this year. He is easily the best QB to ever put on a Hurricanes Jersey since Vinny Testaverde won the Heisman in '86. He's definitely that good but is he as good as other recent Top 5-10 QB picks over the last 3 years? There is a reason he decided to come back and transfer to Miami.

What is the situation with the OL and DL? That's where you win football games. Do they need to go in a new direction at RB? The Draft has a lot of names
The Draft has some quality QBs IMHO in the 2nd-3rd-4th round range, any chance the Browns would want to do something else at No 2 instead of Sanders/Ward, what about Hunter?
Then go get a QB in the 2nd or early 3rd, that's what Pete Carroll's plan will likely be for LVR, just saying there are other ways to approach this off season

With Garrett, the defense is ready to compete, but it'd be a whole not nicer if JOK is able to recover.

The O is a different story. There's enough there if an alpha QB were available. There are cracks throughout the foundation that could crush someone not ready to come in and be the guy.

Njoku is great, but it'd be nice to have someone along side of him. Jeudy and Tillman are a good start to a wr room, but more is needed. Ford / Chubb could be a formidable rb duo, but not something to bet on now. The starting OL might be ok or better, especially going back to the original scheme and with competent coaching. That said, Bitonio is old, Jones can't be trusted yet, and Pocic is a JAG.

The reason why I'm not doom and gloom is despite how horrific last season was, the locker room never broke. That tells me this team has strong leadership they trust. I just can't look at this team from a pragmatic perspective and honestly say they are just a couple pieces away from competing. That appears to be the direction they're taking though.

 

[amnesiac]

What is step-1 for Cleveland?
They retained their head coach after going 3-14? Stefanski has two 11-win seasons out of 5 for Cleveland, considering it's the Browns I can understand why they retained him

-What is happening at Quarterback? I don't think anyone on these boards truly knows what the plan is. Can Watson even return in 2025? I heard he tore the achilles again somehow while he was recovering from the 1st achilles tear, that would seem like a career crippler. Is it possible he never throws an NFL pass again? Whatever the outcome it seems like Cleveland would be wise to draft another QB and either Sanders or Cam Ward seem like an easy selection. I think Cam Ward is pretty wild and a little too sure of himself after watching all of his football games this year. He is easily the best QB to ever put on a Hurricanes Jersey since Vinny Testaverde won the Heisman in '86. He's definitely that good but is he as good as other recent Top 5-10 QB picks over the last 3 years? There is a reason he decided to come back and transfer to Miami.

What is the situation with the OL and DL? That's where you win football games. Do they need to go in a new direction at RB? The Draft has a lot of names
The Draft has some quality QBs IMHO in the 2nd-3rd-4th round range, any chance the Browns would want to do something else at No 2 instead of Sanders/Ward, what about Hunter?
Then go get a QB in the 2nd or early 3rd, that's what Pete Carroll's plan will likely be for LVR, just saying there are other ways to approach this off season

With Garrett, the defense is ready to compete, but it'd be a whole not nicer if JOK is able to recover.

The O is a different story. There's enough there if an alpha QB were available. There are cracks throughout the foundation that could crush someone not ready to come in and be the guy.

Njoku is great, but it'd be nice to have someone along side of him. Jeudy and Tillman are a good start to a wr room, but more is needed. Ford / Chubb could be a formidable rb duo, but not something to bet on now. The starting OL might be ok or better, especially going back to the original scheme and with competent coaching. That said, Bitonio is old, Jones can't be trusted yet, and Pocic is a JAG.

The reason why I'm not doom and gloom is despite how horrific last season was, the locker room never broke. That tells me this team has strong leadership they trust. I just can't look at this team from a pragmatic perspective and honestly say they are just a couple pieces away from competing. That appears to be the direction they're taking though.

they made that decision when they didn't flush the HC/GM.

honestly, a LOT of things need to go right for them to be competitive, but we've seen what this team is capable of when they have a competent QB.