crushedspirit
Footballguy
I think ND's decision to not play in a bowl game seems a little too driven by emotion. Some of those kids will never play again and I think they'll regret it. End your season and career on a high, not like this.
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2025 College Football Thread: Lane Kiffin suddenly feels compelled to read morals clause of contract (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am going talk ND even harder now!
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I still don't get the hypocrisy thing. It seems to me that in order for ND to not be hypocritical in the eyes of some, they would have had to not advocate for themselves (when no one else will) and instead fix the entire broken system. I mean, ND has weight but they can't fix this gawd awful mess we have now, they can only try to do their best with what we got which means advocating for their position that if they are indeed ranked 12 or better that they get into the 12 team playoffs.
I believe that the MOU says if they go to a 16 team playoff then they would be guaranteed in if they are ranked 15 or better.
I believe that the MOU says if they go to a 16 team playoff then they would be guaranteed in if they are ranked 15 or better.
Capella
Footballguy
In 2023 FSU had I believe 25 players sit out after the snub. I cannot tell you the damage playing in that bowl game did to the program. They should have neverrrrrrrrr played. I imagine Notre Dame would have had similar sitouts.
General Malaise
Footballguy
They're the same thing in here and you know it.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Very possible but there are also guys who will never get another chance to be on the field again.
Sparky Polastri
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
I don't think that's possible.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Essentially he wants me to stop posting.
Sparky Polastri
Footballguy
None of the others did more with less.Heisman finalists released : Love, Mendoza, Pavia, Sayin
How can it not be Mendoza?
PAVIA!
(I don't think he will win, but I'd really like it if he does. And he had 826 yards rushing this year too).
FairWarning
Footballguy
I agreeNone of the others did more with less.Heisman finalists released : Love, Mendoza, Pavia, Sayin
How can it not be Mendoza?
PAVIA!
(I don't think he will win, but I'd really like it if he does. And he had 826 yards rushing this year too).
bigbottom
Footballguy
None of the others did more with less.Heisman finalists released : Love, Mendoza, Pavia, Sayin
How can it not be Mendoza?
PAVIA!
(I don't think he will win, but I'd really like it if he does. And he had 826 yards rushing this year too).
Interesting to note that the finalists that are QBs finished with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th highest QB ratings in college football. The QB who finished first in QB rating is Jayden Maiava of USC. I don’t believe he deserves consideration, but was just an interesting outcome.
Link: https://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr
Sparky Polastri
Footballguy
He was fun to watch too.None of the others did more with less.Heisman finalists released : Love, Mendoza, Pavia, Sayin
How can it not be Mendoza?
PAVIA!
(I don't think he will win, but I'd really like it if he does. And he had 826 yards rushing this year too).
Interesting to note that the finalists that are QBs finished with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th highest QB ratings in college football. The QB who finished first in QB rating is Jayden Maiava of USC. I don’t believe he deserves consideration, but was just an interesting outcome.
Link: https://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
Lets be honest, Pavia deserves to be a finalist, but he probably only got an invite, because they knew his mom would show up too...
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Sparky Polastri
Footballguy
Is there even an ounce of self awareness in that group, anywhere? They are the same way in academics (what I am most familiar with having to deal with them on three different projects in 6 years of my post doc).
Jayded
Footballguy
I'm watching....
1. They're not emotionally leaving the ACC - his primary concern is he called Jim Phillips (ACC Commish) and told him what he didn't like was happening 3.5 weeks ago and they continued to do whatever was discussed in spite of communicating the issue. So he feels like it was weird for them to say, "We have a relationship and this is a problem" to find them keep doing it. Didn't specifically say what or how, but clearly comes across as feeling unheard given 24 other sports are in the ACC + the football relationship as well. Relationship is "strained" but "never say never about things healing."
2. Reiterated his main concern is the process, not specific teams that made it. Talked at length with Greg Sankey and they both are closer aligned in the next approach (both want 16 teams), but feels like there needs to be something more concrete on criteria that is communicated. If they still didn't make it, at least all teams would know the criteria so teams know what they need to do, if anything, to make it. Said if they had opened as #19 behind Miami the first week because H2H mattered, ok climb the hill if we can, but at least we'd know where we stood. Starting 8 places ahead of Miami in initial ranking and winning all remaining games by 30+ ppg makes no sense to suddenly have H2H come in when it should have come in far earlier in his opinion.
3. Said the call for the Pop Tart Bowl came within an hour of the committee decision and needed reply within an hour or two. Freeman pulled the captains, told them to talk to the team, and said make a non-emotional decision about this. "You can be disappointed, but be rational in your next decision." The captains came back and said the team already knew of multiple NFL opt outs, transfers, and injuries getting surgery to not want to take the field as a different team than the one that started in Miami or ended at Stanford and would rather go out as the brotherhood that was vs. some different version. They have exams next week and then Christmas and preferred to go spend it with family.
Max Power
Footballguy
Im a ND fan and losing 2 games means the committee controls their destiny. We knew that by week 3. That said, the ND team that finished the year wasn't the same team that started 0-2.
Chris Ashe figured out the Defense and CJ made major strides in his first season as a starter.
This ND team was a contender and anyone watching them play knew that.
Chris Ashe figured out the Defense and CJ made major strides in his first season as a starter.
This ND team was a contender and anyone watching them play knew that.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Special news release for @General Malaise
Notre Dame has landed a verbal commitment from Anderson High School (Ohio) defensive back Ace Alston.
The four-star, Class of 2027 cornerback out of the Cincinnati area gave the Irish his verbal nod over Oregon, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Tennessee, LSU, Penn State, USC and the in-state Buckeyes.
Notre Dame has landed a verbal commitment from Anderson High School (Ohio) defensive back Ace Alston.
The four-star, Class of 2027 cornerback out of the Cincinnati area gave the Irish his verbal nod over Oregon, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Tennessee, LSU, Penn State, USC and the in-state Buckeyes.
bigbottom
Footballguy
This just goes to show how blindsided they were by the committee’s decision. They hadn’t even considered the possibility of not making the playoffs and thinking about whether they would accept a bowl invite.
Moe.
Footballguy
I find this to be really disingenuous. Miami was so low due to the timing of the first set of rankings. They had just lost two of three and looked meh. As they started to recover and play better and stack wins they were able to rapidly move up. I called that in this very thread the week the rankings came out and was dismissed in here. It wasn’t difficult to see. It was the right thing to do (start them low and move them up) due to the timing of it all.
We talk about the bias of ranking teams early and how that has an outsized impact on how they are evaluated. Yet here the argument is they started us high so there are no tack-backsides? Get outta here.
As you mentioned the other day - Notre Dame has a September problem. It sucks to lose games early and feel like you can’t recover but guess what - that’s one of the consequences of not being in a conference, your schedule is going to be front-loaded and you gotta be ready to go. This is how you want it so deal with it.
jm192
Footballguy
This is why I have zero pity for ND right now. They want to have it both ways.
It's not reasonable to expect the ACC to treat you like a full conference member in football when you are in fact--not a full conference member in football. Miami is an ACC member. The ACC has a financial benefit if an ACC team makes the field. They also just owe it to their members to advocate for their members.
Notre Dame wants to remain separate in football because of the financials. Then they want to cry and say "But we're a member in all these other sports that aren't as financially rewarding." Then the ACC should advocate for you in basketball and tennis and volleyball. But you're not a football member.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Nah, you're the only person in here who makes me feel better about my vomitous posts.
General Malaise
Footballguy
They'll go straight to 24 before they go to 16. And then the USC's of the world will start complaining.
Alright, I'm done being childish.
Jayded
Footballguy
I'd also note, remember he's a first time AD as weird as that sounds. He formerly was head of NBC Sports, but he's an alumni. So media communication is what he knows and contracts with media entities. I do think it helps color how he sees the world more than people realize and the naivety in some respects could be expected (not that it's a good thing at all).
But agreed. He very much sounded like, "They told us 'win and you're in' and we did - wtf." That was naive, and especially after last week's Bama move because of how they fought back so hard and deserved a bump to #9.
For him to be right, he'd have to also be right about firm criteria up front, and as many discussed yesterday, it's fluid. We don't know if H2H is 20% of the math or 80% or what. I'm not sure it'll ever get there either, but his tone at least was right on that front - "I'd rather know what I need to do than sit there in surprise and disappointment if I'm one of the kids in that room feeling like I did everything I was asked of me to do." Easy retort is win the first two games, which would have solve this for sure, but his point about being 9th initially and then winning by 30+ ppg says the criteria moves. It does....and they need to accept it or work to solidify it with the CFP committee and conferences going forward or be subject to it again next year and following years.
General Malaise
Footballguy
He was fun to watch too.None of the others did more with less.Heisman finalists released : Love, Mendoza, Pavia, Sayin
How can it not be Mendoza?
PAVIA!
(I don't think he will win, but I'd really like it if he does. And he had 826 yards rushing this year too).
Interesting to note that the finalists that are QBs finished with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th highest QB ratings in college football. The QB who finished first in QB rating is Jayden Maiava of USC. I don’t believe he deserves consideration, but was just an interesting outcome.
Link: https://www.espn.com/college-football/qbr
NOT IN PERSON WHEN CHEERING FOR THE OTHER TEAM!!!!111 Dude doesn't miss. He was like a monster in a horror movie, just kept coming at you, impervious to the slings and arrows trying to thwart him.
jm192
Footballguy
There actually 1 incredibly clear black and white criteria that will 100% get you in. Win your conference championship game. That's it. Do that. That's how you take all of the grey out.
Notre Dame doesn't want to, and so we need a different answer. But for every team that doesn't win their conference championship game--there is some degree of grey. There is some risk of thinking you're in and finding out you're wrong.
But there's this huge elephant in the room, and ND is like, no give us a better answer. I've gone from feeling bad for the program to being annoyed. You don't want to join a conference, you can deal with the consequences. It's like when 1 kid punches the other and gets punched back. Then they tell on the 2nd kid. And then they keep ignoring the part where they threw the first punch when it's brought up. "But...Billy hit me! What do you not understand."
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You're not even an ACC football conference member. He can call all he wants but Phillips is obligated to push his full time members. It was never against ND they just happened to be the head to head opponent. You all were the ones that were butt hurt, knew your resume sucked, and didn't want any attention created over it. Why should the ACC bend over to appease ND?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I need to stop posting because you should never feel better about that.
Nah, you're the only person in here who makes me feel better about my vomitous posts.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Duke is reading this post very confused.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Well, I mean, they bend over for all the other conferences... so....
GregR
Footballguy
As stated, Duke is looking at your post and shaking their head.
But hey they fixed it next year. The Power 4 want their guaranteed spot even for an unranked conference champ. They get it. Notre Dame wants their spot if they are top 12 in a field of 12. They get it.
Haven't seen bitching in here about the conference part yet, but I'm sure it's coming, right?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I just saw this that was originally an X post... I can't say that I agree wholly but it is hard to argue the general gist of it all....
Bowl Games = dying
Conference Championships = dying
CFP = disaster
Transfer Portal = disaster
NIL = out of control
Heisman Trophy = irrelevant
ESPN= making millions
Things are great!
Bowl Games = dying
Conference Championships = dying
CFP = disaster
Transfer Portal = disaster
NIL = out of control
Heisman Trophy = irrelevant
ESPN= making millions
Things are great!
General Malaise
Footballguy
The leadership at the ACC helps further my understanding of how the South lost the Civil War. Total gong show over there. Fire everybody and start fresh.
Moe.
Footballguy
The ND’s AD’s critique of the process reads like he thinks the point is for the committee to provide an objective evaluation of his team in a vacuum. Rankings are relative - they got passed by Miami, nobody said ND did anything wrong. Every aspect of this makes it seem like ND fans think they are the center of the universe.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
How on earth is the CFP a disaster?
General Malaise
Footballguy
Billions....
Rick Neuheisal (sp?) was on DP yesterday and had an interesting idea: Play the Bowl Games at the beginning of the year. I don't know how you do that, but people far smarter than me can figure it out.
Then roll out the regular season with 2 OCC/tune-up games and then play a conference schedule.
24 teams get an invite to post-season play.
Open up the Heisman voting to the public along with the sports' writers. Make us care. And attach a PHAT monetary award to the finalists with a giant check to the winner.
This has been Kige Ramsey for Yahoo Sports.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I do find it funny that for all the 'head to head matters' talk..... Duke, a 7-5 team played for and won the conference championship over Miami who beat them during the season and sat and watched the game at home... well... who are we kidding, they watched the other real game that was on like the rest of us.
GregR
Footballguy
Head to head doesn't usually get used in multi-team ties where not everyone played head to head or the same number of H2H games.
Unless you're in fantasy football leagues with bad rules.
So nothing odd there.
jm192
Footballguy
I mean I simplified it. But if ND was ranked top 12 and had won their conference championship, there's no problem.
I understand a conference representing 16+ teams saying "We should get a spot." Surely you don't mean to imply that's as reasonable as ONE university asking for it's own spot?
And I still haven't seen a ND fan acknowledge that the lack of a conference/conference championship game is a real issue. It's a problem when Alabama loses in their conference Championship game. But...what happens in ND's conference championship game?
"I haven't seen anyone complain about it..." really demonstrates the entitled attitude of ND fans and the program as a whole. "We'll just bury our heads in the sand and act like everyone's unreasonable for bringing it up...or better yet, don't acknowledge it at all. We don't owe anyone an answer. The world owes us a playoff spot no matter what."
We hear about teams that lost in their conference championship game should be punished.
We hear about how the ACC WRONGED their "partner" Notre Dame.
But by God, don't you bring up the fact that we could join a conference but won't do so!
Chadstroma
Footballguy
It is a subjective process of course but there complaint, which I challenge you to tell me is wrong, is that it is completely up to their subjective feelings with no established criteria or guidance. His biggest point which I think is absolutely on the nail, is that the ranking previous are absolutely worthless and meaningless when you rank one team ahead of another in all the rankings.... neither team plays and then you flip those teams. Or even more concerning to me, the week before when ND trounced Stanford as they should have and Alabama struggled against Auburn as they should not have and they flip those schools because 'going for it on 4th down was impressive' what?
I get it... all the haters are going to have their moment taking shots at ND. Laugh it up fuzzball. I get it. That is sports.
But I am not going to take anyone serious who tries to defend the current system. You can't be a serious sports fan and think CFB has it right.
GregR
Footballguy
I don't think Bowl Games are dying. But they are going to change.
They are still better than watching December NBA or college basketball. So they will keep happening.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of them shrink somewhat though. They were already bloated before NIL and the transfer rules. Now, there's less incentive for teams with good backups to play. But the more middling teams who might be trying to make a better case to recruits than their season made, are probably still going to play much of the time.
Though not all the time. 11 teams declined bowl bids. That's not a small number.
They are still better than watching December NBA or college basketball. So they will keep happening.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the number of them shrink somewhat though. They were already bloated before NIL and the transfer rules. Now, there's less incentive for teams with good backups to play. But the more middling teams who might be trying to make a better case to recruits than their season made, are probably still going to play much of the time.
Though not all the time. 11 teams declined bowl bids. That's not a small number.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Doesn't NASCAR do that now with their biggest race first or something (i obviously do not follow racing)
I guess you could do all the rival games then instead of end of the season? Otherwise, I am not sure how you get these matchups.... I guess you could do rankings? 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, etc... it would give us all a quicker idea of who really is who in college football.
I like the out of the box thinking... not sure I think it works or not though.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Like I said, I don't wholly agree but I think it is widely agreed on that having Tulane and JMU in the playoffs shows that the current playoff set up is not optimal.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I said funny.... not odd.
Head to head has to matter.... well.... except for our Championship game where we are going to not put in our clearly best team in the conference that spanked the mediocre team we got in there.
That is funny.
Moe.
Footballguy
Let’s agree to stop using the word hater unironically. I promise you I am not a Notre Dame hater.
re: the bolded - we already knew all that
I don’t agree with your last sentence. It’s really really easy to build a new system from scratch that’s better than what we have now. Nobody thinks this is utopia. It’s the best we can do given all the contracts in place currently. They’ll continue to tweak it. In the long-term we’re trending in the right direction but it’s still frustrating in the moment.
GregR
Footballguy
No actually it wasn't a problem for Alabama when they lost in their conference championship game.
It looked like the majority opinion in here before the rankings came out was that out of ND, Miami and Alabama, that Alabama should be the one that dropped.
My "I haven't seen anyone complain about" statement was that people complained when they heard ND guaranteed themself a spot if they actually finish in the top 12. So you'd think if a team actually getting one of 12 spots when they finish in the top 12 is unjust enough to complain about, that they'd really complain about rules that would let an unranked team in potentially.
Anyway. The system sucks. I said long ago the top 12 teams should get in if there are 12 playoff spots.
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