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2025 College Football Thread: Taylor Swift demonstrates true love to fiancee by attending Big 12 football game (5 Viewers)

"capable of earning a legitimate degree" is just a lot lower bar than it's being made out to be, IMO.

This whole conversation is dumb to me. Idk if that's because I've actually done it and know how it works or because it's laughable how good ND marketing is that it's oh so difficult a school. Getting in is far harder than being there. Just like Stanford and Duke and Vandy and all the Ivies and all the other tough spots. If you put the top 50% of almost any college in the country into one of these schools to begin with, those students would all do just fine. The top 5-10%? They'd be fighting to be top of their class at ND too.

Biggest eye roll ever.
Yea... take an SEC football team, Oregon, Ohio St, transplant them at ND or Stanford or Northwestern. Then let's see how they do. I am not sure about Stanford and Northwestern but I know at ND they are required to take 12 units in fall while I know schools in the SEC (not sure all but I would bet that all do) allow for 9 units. I can't take anyone seriously who is going to make the argument that recruiting is the same among all D1 schools, thay admissions just let's whoever in and the student life rigor is the same among schools. That just isn't reality.

Even bigger eye roll.
12 units is the lightest course load a student can take at the University of Oklahoma and be considered a full time student. Which you must be to maintain an academic or athletic scholarship. Which, by the way, as an alum of both that school and Stanford, I'd happily say is a significantly less elite university than ND or Stanford or Duke etc. I'd also say that I know plenty of people from ND and Stanford and Duke and Harvard etc that I think are definitely not any smarter or better at school than plenty of people at OU. Athletes included.

12 units is also a laughably light course load IMO. But over 8 years of graduate and undergraduate education I took 12 in a semester one time and never dropped below 18 otherwise. I took the 12 because I needed to study for the bar exam at the same time.

You're also making a straw man. Nobody said it's the same at all schools. Just that the differences aren't remotely as meaningful as the hyper ND stanning seems to believe.

I'm going to bow out. It feels like I'm having a discussion with people who don't know how elite schools work or why they are elite.

Feel free to have the last word.
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?
I assumed he'd have more money available to him and get paid more.
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?
I assumed he'd have more money available to him and get paid more.

He might also get those.

You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?
I assumed he felt the grass tasted greener at LSU.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.

Maybe it has changed. You folks are likely more knowledgeable than I am.

They also could just be recruiting more effectively. Some coaches are better at that than others. I wouldn't necessarily assume better classes means lower standards. But maybe so.

I think I'm mostly just interested to know it seems lots don't think it's easier to get athletes into LSU than Notre Dame. That's a new one for me.
 
"capable of earning a legitimate degree" is just a lot lower bar than it's being made out to be, IMO.

This whole conversation is dumb to me. Idk if that's because I've actually done it and know how it works or because it's laughable how good ND marketing is that it's oh so difficult a school. Getting in is far harder than being there. Just like Stanford and Duke and Vandy and all the Ivies and all the other tough spots. If you put the top 50% of almost any college in the country into one of these schools to begin with, those students would all do just fine. The top 5-10%? They'd be fighting to be top of their class at ND too.

Biggest eye roll ever.
Yea... take an SEC football team, Oregon, Ohio St, transplant them at ND or Stanford or Northwestern. Then let's see how they do. I am not sure about Stanford and Northwestern but I know at ND they are required to take 12 units in fall while I know schools in the SEC (not sure all but I would bet that all do) allow for 9 units. I can't take anyone seriously who is going to make the argument that recruiting is the same among all D1 schools, thay admissions just let's whoever in and the student life rigor is the same among schools. That just isn't reality.

Even bigger eye roll.
12 units is the lightest course load a student can take at the University of Oklahoma and be considered a full time student. Which you must be to maintain an academic or athletic scholarship. Which, by the way, as an alum of both that school and Stanford, I'd happily say is a significantly less elite university than ND or Stanford or Duke etc. I'd also say that I know plenty of people from ND and Stanford and Duke and Harvard etc that I think are definitely not any smarter or better at school than plenty of people at OU. Athletes included.

12 units is also a laughably light course load IMO. But over 8 years of graduate and undergraduate education I took 12 in a semester one time and never dropped below 18 otherwise. I took the 12 because I needed to study for the bar exam at the same time.

You're also making a straw man. Nobody said it's the same at all schools. Just that the differences aren't remotely as meaningful as the hyper ND stanning seems to believe.

I'm going to bow out. It feels like I'm having a discussion with people who don't know how elite schools work or why they are elite.

Feel free to have the last word.
My last word is this...

I love a ton of your posts that offer great insight, knowledge and experience in several threads that I have interest in coming from your background. Many of those posts I think something along the lines of "Wow, that is awesome to get a chance to learn from him" after reading. I appreciate you and those posts.

However, there are some posts that like this one where I come away thinking "Wow, he certainly got the elitist attitude down from being at his elite school."

I hope to see more of the first and less of the second because I can't get enough of those great posts and less of these that ignore what I write and basically say you are dumb and know nothing and below me posts.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.

Maybe it has changed. You folks are likely more knowledgeable than I am.

They also could just be recruiting more effectively. Some coaches are better at that than others. I wouldn't necessarily assume better classes means lower standards. But maybe so.

I think I'm mostly just interested to know it seems lots don't think it's easier to get athletes into LSU than Notre Dame. That's a new one for me.
I don't think it's easier for an athlete that is very good.

The guys on back of roster? Those guys are from a more restricted pool at better academic schools.

You could also tell me it's easier to recruit LA and MS and Houston based players to LSU vs ND because of geography, culture, wanting their families to be able to see them, etc.

What I know not to be the case is that if there are 20 four and five star QBs, maaaaaaaybe 2 are so bad academically that they couldn't go to ND if the ND staff wanted them. And I just think that isn't a meaningful impact on recruiting ability.

One thing people are underestimating here is how many good recruits are also kind of dumb. That number is fairly small. Most athletes capable of playing at the highest levels are pretty bright. You have to know and remember too much about the sport you play.

Are there exceptions to every rule? Yes. But that's why they're called exceptions.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.

Maybe it has changed. You folks are likely more knowledgeable than I am.

They also could just be recruiting more effectively. Some coaches are better at that than others. I wouldn't necessarily assume better classes means lower standards. But maybe so.

I think I'm mostly just interested to know it seems lots don't think it's easier to get athletes into LSU than Notre Dame. That's a new one for me.
I don't think it's easier for an athlete that is very good.

The guys on back of roster? Those guys are from a more restricted pool at better academic schools.

You could also tell me it's easier to recruit LA and MS and Houston based players to LSU vs ND because of geography, culture, wanting their families to be able to see them, etc.

What I know not to be the case is that if there are 20 four and five star QBs, maaaaaaaybe 2 are so bad academically that they couldn't go to ND if the ND staff wanted them. And I just think that isn't a meaningful impact on recruiting ability.

One thing people are underestimating here is how many good recruits are also kind of dumb. That number is fairly small. Most athletes capable of playing at the highest levels are pretty bright. You have to know and remember too much about the sport you play.

Are there exceptions to every rule? Yes. But that's why they're called exceptions.

Thanks. As I said, I think it's interesting when I find that something I thought most people think actually don't think. So that's always helpful to know.

I assumed most people thought coaching at schools with higher academic admission standards was more challenging because they're not able to accept the same pool of players other schools with lower standards can.

I assumed most people thought a recruit might qualify for Georgia, but not Georgia Tech. Or might get into Tennessee, but not Vanderbilt.

I always like learning something there so thanks.
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?

Don't know about Kelley but after Gary Anderson left Wisconsin after one (successful) season he openly acknowledged it was due to clashing with the admissions people over academic standards for his recruits. He paid a $3m contact buyout and went to Oregon St. Anderson initially said he was moving to Oregon St. for family reasons, and the WI AD Barry Alvarez was somewhat vague as to the reasons, but both later admitted publicly it was because the players Anderson recruited were denied admission. The only reason I mention it is because for whatever reason, these coaches (and honestly the schools) don't often admit this publicly. There is this (for me very strange) idea that the school or coach is failing or even cheating or taking a shortcut if they recruit good football players to play football, rather than good students to play football.

I'm beating a dead horse again, but this entire conversation, which for me is extremely bizarre, exists only because we are so obsessively dedicated to the fraud of college amateurism and the myth of the "student athlete."
 
"capable of earning a legitimate degree" is just a lot lower bar than it's being made out to be, IMO.

This whole conversation is dumb to me. Idk if that's because I've actually done it and know how it works or because it's laughable how good ND marketing is that it's oh so difficult a school. Getting in is far harder than being there. Just like Stanford and Duke and Vandy and all the Ivies and all the other tough spots. If you put the top 50% of almost any college in the country into one of these schools to begin with, those students would all do just fine. The top 5-10%? They'd be fighting to be top of their class at ND too.

Biggest eye roll ever.
Yea... take an SEC football team, Oregon, Ohio St, transplant them at ND or Stanford or Northwestern. Then let's see how they do. I am not sure about Stanford and Northwestern but I know at ND they are required to take 12 units in fall while I know schools in the SEC (not sure all but I would bet that all do) allow for 9 units. I can't take anyone seriously who is going to make the argument that recruiting is the same among all D1 schools, thay admissions just let's whoever in and the student life rigor is the same among schools. That just isn't reality.

Even bigger eye roll.
12 units is the lightest course load a student can take at the University of Oklahoma and be considered a full time student. Which you must be to maintain an academic or athletic scholarship. Which, by the way, as an alum of both that school and Stanford, I'd happily say is a significantly less elite university than ND or Stanford or Duke etc. I'd also say that I know plenty of people from ND and Stanford and Duke and Harvard etc that I think are definitely not any smarter or better at school than plenty of people at OU. Athletes included.

12 units is also a laughably light course load IMO. But over 8 years of graduate and undergraduate education I took 12 in a semester one time and never dropped below 18 otherwise. I took the 12 because I needed to study for the bar exam at the same time.

You're also making a straw man. Nobody said it's the same at all schools. Just that the differences aren't remotely as meaningful as the hyper ND stanning seems to believe.

I'm going to bow out. It feels like I'm having a discussion with people who don't know how elite schools work or why they are elite.

Feel free to have the last word.
My last word is this...

I love a ton of your posts that offer great insight, knowledge and experience in several threads that I have interest in coming from your background. Many of those posts I think something along the lines of "Wow, that is awesome to get a chance to learn from him" after reading. I appreciate you and those posts.

However, there are some posts that like this one where I come away thinking "Wow, he certainly got the elitist attitude down from being at his elite school."

I hope to see more of the first and less of the second because I can't get enough of those great posts and less of these that ignore what I write and basically say you are dumb and know nothing and below me posts.

Wait. Are you saying the University of Oklahoma is an Elite school?
 
Don't know about Kelley but after Gary Anderson left Wisconsin after one (successful) season he openly acknowledged it was due to clashing with the admissions people over academic standards for his recruits.

Thanks. That's the kind of thing I assumed was happening.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"
 
"capable of earning a legitimate degree" is just a lot lower bar than it's being made out to be, IMO.

This whole conversation is dumb to me. Idk if that's because I've actually done it and know how it works or because it's laughable how good ND marketing is that it's oh so difficult a school. Getting in is far harder than being there. Just like Stanford and Duke and Vandy and all the Ivies and all the other tough spots. If you put the top 50% of almost any college in the country into one of these schools to begin with, those students would all do just fine. The top 5-10%? They'd be fighting to be top of their class at ND too.

Biggest eye roll ever.
Yea... take an SEC football team, Oregon, Ohio St, transplant them at ND or Stanford or Northwestern. Then let's see how they do. I am not sure about Stanford and Northwestern but I know at ND they are required to take 12 units in fall while I know schools in the SEC (not sure all but I would bet that all do) allow for 9 units. I can't take anyone seriously who is going to make the argument that recruiting is the same among all D1 schools, thay admissions just let's whoever in and the student life rigor is the same among schools. That just isn't reality.

Even bigger eye roll.
12 units is the lightest course load a student can take at the University of Oklahoma and be considered a full time student. Which you must be to maintain an academic or athletic scholarship. Which, by the way, as an alum of both that school and Stanford, I'd happily say is a significantly less elite university than ND or Stanford or Duke etc. I'd also say that I know plenty of people from ND and Stanford and Duke and Harvard etc that I think are definitely not any smarter or better at school than plenty of people at OU. Athletes included.

12 units is also a laughably light course load IMO. But over 8 years of graduate and undergraduate education I took 12 in a semester one time and never dropped below 18 otherwise. I took the 12 because I needed to study for the bar exam at the same time.

You're also making a straw man. Nobody said it's the same at all schools. Just that the differences aren't remotely as meaningful as the hyper ND stanning seems to believe.

I'm going to bow out. It feels like I'm having a discussion with people who don't know how elite schools work or why they are elite.

Feel free to have the last word.
My last word is this...

I love a ton of your posts that offer great insight, knowledge and experience in several threads that I have interest in coming from your background. Many of those posts I think something along the lines of "Wow, that is awesome to get a chance to learn from him" after reading. I appreciate you and those posts.

However, there are some posts that like this one where I come away thinking "Wow, he certainly got the elitist attitude down from being at his elite school."

I hope to see more of the first and less of the second because I can't get enough of those great posts and less of these that ignore what I write and basically say you are dumb and know nothing and below me posts.

Wait. Are you saying the University of Oklahoma is an Elite school?
No. But he did say he went to Stanford too which is.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.

Maybe it has changed. You folks are likely more knowledgeable than I am.

They also could just be recruiting more effectively. Some coaches are better at that than others. I wouldn't necessarily assume better classes means lower standards. But maybe so.

I think I'm mostly just interested to know it seems lots don't think it's easier to get athletes into LSU than Notre Dame. That's a new one for me.
I don't think it's easier for an athlete that is very good.

The guys on back of roster? Those guys are from a more restricted pool at better academic schools.

You could also tell me it's easier to recruit LA and MS and Houston based players to LSU vs ND because of geography, culture, wanting their families to be able to see them, etc.

What I know not to be the case is that if there are 20 four and five star QBs, maaaaaaaybe 2 are so bad academically that they couldn't go to ND if the ND staff wanted them. And I just think that isn't a meaningful impact on recruiting ability.

One thing people are underestimating here is how many good recruits are also kind of dumb. That number is fairly small. Most athletes capable of playing at the highest levels are pretty bright. You have to know and remember too much about the sport you play.

Are there exceptions to every rule? Yes. But that's why they're called exceptions.

Thanks. As I said, I think it's interesting when I find that something I thought most people think actually don't think. So that's always helpful to know.

I assumed most people thought coaching at schools with higher academic admission standards was more challenging because they're not able to accept the same pool of players other schools with lower standards can.

I assumed most people thought a recruit might qualify for Georgia, but not Georgia Tech. Or might get into Tennessee, but not Vanderbilt.

I always like learning something there so thanks.

Chad posted the data upthread showing that while academic admission standards vary greatly between ND and Oregon on SAT/ACT scores for the general student population, the difference is close to negligible when it comes to athletic recruits.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?

Don't know about Kelley but after Gary Anderson left Wisconsin after one (successful) season he openly acknowledged it was due to clashing with the admissions people over academic standards for his recruits. He paid a $3m contact buyout and went to Oregon St. Anderson initially said he was moving to Oregon St. for family reasons, and the WI AD Barry Alvarez was somewhat vague as to the reasons, but both later admitted publicly it was because the players Anderson recruited were denied admission. The only reason I mention it is because for whatever reason, these coaches (and honestly the schools) don't often admit this publicly. There is this (for me very strange) idea that the school or coach is failing or even cheating or taking a shortcut if they recruit good football players to play football, rather than good students to play football.

I'm beating a dead horse again, but this entire conversation, which for me is extremely bizarre, exists only because we are so obsessively dedicated to the fraud of college amateurism and the myth of the "student athlete."
Kelly was on record as saying that he left in order to win a Championship. I think he worded it something along the lines of "getting the resources in order to win a Championship." Sure, the massive payday surely didn't hurt.... it was, at the time at least, I believe the largest contract for a football coach.

If you think about it there are many good reasons why a coach isn't going to outright say "I am going to LSU because I can't recruit the players I want to get at ND and academics is a big part of that." as you are basically pooing on your new University's academics.

The resources was a way to make it sound better if you ask me. Some of the resources he asked for have been done (like a dedicated Chef) and many of the others are planned or in process (like a phased plan to upgrade the football complex).

The truth was Kelly was known as a lazy recruiter at ND, delegating heavily to assistants. I find it funny when I hear how he now says he is selective aiming for recruits instead of chasing stars but was on record saying “The best player in the state of Louisiana... wants to be a Tiger.” highlighting the geographic pipeline. I didn't hate him when he was at ND but he wasn't someone you got excited about either- Freeman has shown that pretty much everything about him leaving ND for LSU was excuses and that a top notch dynamic head coach like Freeman can use the ND strengths and minimize it's weaknesses in recruiting.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)

Does anyone hate USC though?
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.

Makes sense.
The internet says:

Oklahoma University was founded when the land was part of a Territory in 1890.

17 years later, when it was merged with another Territory and became a state, the university was renamed to "The University of Oklahoma," but the original nickname of OU stuck.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.

Maybe it has changed. You folks are likely more knowledgeable than I am.

They also could just be recruiting more effectively. Some coaches are better at that than others. I wouldn't necessarily assume better classes means lower standards. But maybe so.

I think I'm mostly just interested to know it seems lots don't think it's easier to get athletes into LSU than Notre Dame. That's a new one for me.
I don't think it's easier for an athlete that is very good.

The guys on back of roster? Those guys are from a more restricted pool at better academic schools.

You could also tell me it's easier to recruit LA and MS and Houston based players to LSU vs ND because of geography, culture, wanting their families to be able to see them, etc.

What I know not to be the case is that if there are 20 four and five star QBs, maaaaaaaybe 2 are so bad academically that they couldn't go to ND if the ND staff wanted them. And I just think that isn't a meaningful impact on recruiting ability.

One thing people are underestimating here is how many good recruits are also kind of dumb. That number is fairly small. Most athletes capable of playing at the highest levels are pretty bright. You have to know and remember too much about the sport you play.

Are there exceptions to every rule? Yes. But that's why they're called exceptions.

Thanks. As I said, I think it's interesting when I find that something I thought most people think actually don't think. So that's always helpful to know.

I assumed most people thought coaching at schools with higher academic admission standards was more challenging because they're not able to accept the same pool of players other schools with lower standards can.

I assumed most people thought a recruit might qualify for Georgia, but not Georgia Tech. Or might get into Tennessee, but not Vanderbilt.

I always like learning something there so thanks.

Chad posted the data upthread showing that while academic admission standards vary greatly between ND and Oregon on SAT/ACT scores for the general student population, the difference is close to negligible when it comes to athletic recruits.

Thanks. Yes, I read that but would like to see more than an AI summary on it. I've just read so much stuff like @CletiusMaximus posted, "Don't know about Kelley but after Gary Anderson left Wisconsin after one (successful) season he openly acknowledged it was due to clashing with the admissions people over academic standards for his recruits." that I'd like to see more.
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.

Makes sense.
The internet says:

Oklahoma University was founded when the land was part of a Territory in 1890.

17 years later, when it was merged with another Territory and became a state, the university was renamed to "The University of Oklahoma," but the original nickname of OU stuck.

There you go!
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"
I have never heard anyone say "Man, I hate Purdue." or Northwestern, Illinois, etc (thinking of schools around the Chicago area that I would hear people talk about in conversation) but ND? Ohhhh yea. People love to hate ND.

I think a great way to judge hate is by how many rivalries exist.

For example: The one thing you can do to unite a Chief, Bronco and Charger fan (if you could find one) is ask them who they hate. 100% it will be the Raiders. Notre Dame has... gee, I don't know how many rivalries that exist with other schools.
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
Yep, we Oregon fans do not like it when others call Oregon OU. It is U of O.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)
The thing about USC to hate was two things....

The first which was a hate out of jealousy was the number of amazingly hot girls that go to that school. Seriously a magnet for hotness to the point I have been convinced part of their admission process for girls a simple question of how hot are they.
The second was that 90% of the guys that go there are douche bags (maybe your son was one of those exceptions... one of my closest friends being one and his brother in law another.... my youth pastor was not fully a douche but you could tell he went to USC lol)
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)

Does anyone hate USC though?
Yes I do. But my main hatred goes to Washington.
 
I think the biggest feather in Notre Dame‘s cap with respect to its recruiting success is that it is widely understood that their NIL budget is much lower than other top programs. That combined with the geographic wasteland that is South Bend and it’s really quite remarkable!

😉
 
I think the biggest feather in Notre Dame‘s cap with respect to its recruiting success is that it is widely understood that their NIL budget is much lower than other top programs. That combined with the geographic wasteland that is South Bend and it’s really quite remarkable!

😉
Yea.... go to USC where as long as you can dodge the bullets on your way out be at the beach in 30 minutes with hotties everywhere you look on campus or go to ND where..... pretty much all there is ND unless you drive two hours to Chicago which doesn't have near the youth night life that L.A. has..... just that to me is amazing.

Also, that Indiana is not a powerhouse of top blue chips coming out of there and they don't really have a geographic pipeline but pull from all over the country.

ND has some very unique pluses and some big negatives when it comes to recruiting.
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
Yep, we Oregon fans do not like it when others call Oregon OU. It is U of O.
People call is anything other than Oregon? They really should just change the name to Knight University though. Imagine the uniform possibilities.....
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)
The thing about USC to hate was two things....

The first which was a hate out of jealousy was the number of amazingly hot girls that go to that school. Seriously a magnet for hotness to the point I have been convinced part of their admission process for girls a simple question of how hot are they.
The second was that 90% of the guys that go there are douche bags (maybe your son was one of those exceptions... one of my closest friends being one and his brother in law another.... my youth pastor was not fully a douche but you could tell he went to USC lol)

Ha, you’re not wrong. My son reports that douches were indeed plentiful on campus. As for him, he’s about the least douchey person I know. The girls may have had something to do with it, but I think the climate was a much bigger factor in him choosing to attend USC over ND. On that note, coming from a big Catholic school in Texas, he knows a number of kids who went to Notre Dame. His guy friends tell him that if you meet a cute girl freshman year, you’ll have a shot with her for maybe a semester. But by spring, they’ll be dating a football player.
 
You wouldn't think he'd have a wider pool of players available because it was easier to get players into LSU than Notre Dame?
Based on the number of (reputed) high level recruits ND has pulled so far this year (according to previous posts), either ND's standards have gotten a lot lower, or high school football players have gotten a lot smarter.

I know which one I'd believe to be true.
Sigh.

I think there is a lot of hate for ND- easily a top ten and I would say has to be in the top three for schools that people love to hate. And anything I state as a ND fan will be returned with poo on it.
I feel that the following statements are pretty much universally accepted. Whether they are real (as I believe) or perceived (as Instinctive tells us)- perception is reality. Alabama is not recruiting kids saying "if you come to Alabama, you are coming to one of the most prestigious Universities in the country and coming away with an elite degree." For some students that is a pitch they want to hear, for others, they want the academics. And every single student has their own pool of drives, desires and wants out of what school they want to go to.

  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

Two thoughts:

1. It's been my experience that almost all "hate" for schools is inflated by the school's fan base. It's human nature to play that up.
2. The hate that's there is almost always self inflicted and justified. The most hated teams are mostly agreed to be the most obnoxious fan bases. As a UT fan living in Knoxville, guity as charged. :shrug:

But for the below, I assumed all three points were accepted by most everyone.
  • The academic standards are higher at ND than Alabama.
  • The workload is more at ND than Alabama for an athlete.
  • For a blue chip athlete who is not thinking "I want a top notch education", it is a harder pitch to make of "come to ND and work harder for a degree"

You’re saying most USC hate is self-inflicted????

(Of course you are right!)
The thing about USC to hate was two things....

The first which was a hate out of jealousy was the number of amazingly hot girls that go to that school. Seriously a magnet for hotness to the point I have been convinced part of their admission process for girls a simple question of how hot are they.
The second was that 90% of the guys that go there are douche bags (maybe your son was one of those exceptions... one of my closest friends being one and his brother in law another.... my youth pastor was not fully a douche but you could tell he went to USC lol)
douche bag seems harsh. How can you tell a douche bag from USC? What are their traits?
 
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Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
Yep, we Oregon fans do not like it when others call Oregon OU. It is U of O.
People call is anything other than Oregon? They really should just change the name to Knight University though. Imagine the uniform possibilities.....
The other thing that annoys us is when pronounce Oregon wrong. It is pronounced Oregun, not Oregone.
 
Bigbottom is reducing my hatred for USC though as he seems like a great guy. I actually am glad to see USC recruiting a little better to have a nice west coast rivalry. I still think Oregon gets a better quality class than USC again this year. USC will have the quantity as they need to restock talent. Oregon has a ton of talent already and is being selective and mostly focused on retaining talent.
 
Love the FFA

And yes, this is July College Football discssion. LOL.

Bigger question, I know we're getting deep in the details, but bigger picture, I always assumed Brian Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU because he'd have a bigger pool of players to work with given the lower academic standards at LSU compared to Notre Dame.

I assumed everyone thought that. Is that not the case?
I assumed it was to reset his contract and start over because everyone hates him everywhere he ends up.
 
ChatGPT to the white courtesy phone. LOL.


Top “Most Hated” Colleges (U.S.) — General Public / Pop Culture
  1. University of Alabama
    • 🏈 Dominance in college football under Nick Saban.
    • Perceived arrogance from fans (aka “Bama fatigue”).
  2. University of Southern California (USC)
    • 🎬 Glamorous L.A. image, “Hollywood” reputation.
    • Perceived entitlement, especially during Pete Carroll’s era.
    • Linked to college admissions scandal.
  3. University of Notre Dame
    • ⛪ Polarizing due to its independent football status, Catholic identity, and historic media deals.
    • Has a national fanbase, which irks regional rivals.
  4. Duke University
    • 🏀 Basketball program success under Coach K.
    • Perception of elitism and smugness.
    • “Duke hate” is a cultural phenomenon in March Madness.
  5. Harvard University
    • 🧠 Seen as the ultimate symbol of academic elitism.
    • Criticized for exclusivity, privilege, and old-money culture.
  6. Yale & Princeton
    • 🏛️ Similar to Harvard — disliked more for symbolism than specific actions.
  7. Ohio State University
    • 🟥 The “THE” in The Ohio State University.
    • Football dominance, polarizing fanbase.
  8. University of Michigan
    • 🟡 Arrogance and academic pride.
    • Long-standing rivalries (Ohio State, Michigan State).
  9. Texas A&M University
    • 🎖️ Military traditions and cult-like fan culture can be polarizing.
    • “Yell Leaders” and over-the-top traditions invite mockery.
  10. University of Texas at Austin
  • 🧡 Seen as arrogant by in-state rivals.
  • “Texas is back” jokes every year in football.
 
Bigbottom is reducing my hatred for USC though as he seems like a great guy. I actually am glad to see USC recruiting a little better to have a nice west coast rivalry. I still think Oregon gets a better quality class than USC again this year. USC will have the quantity as they need to restock talent. Oregon has a ton of talent already and is being selective and mostly focused on retaining talent.

I’m only a recent USC fan. My college didn’t have a football team (or D1 sports at all) so I adopted USC as my rooting interest when my son went there in 2020. One of my best friends from college lives in Bend and sent both of his boys to Oregon, so we have a rivalry going with our adopted schools. We’ll always have UCLA and Washington respectively, but I’m hopeful that future years will bring a growing rivalry between the Ducks and Trojans. With the USC/ND game at risk (which will be a damn shame if it goes away), USC may need another long term rival. But Oregon may have its sights on tOSU rather than the school down south.
 
Duke is definitely hated in basketball but only partly for the success. A lot of it is the walmart fan that adopts them and talks trash. Their actual students are just fine and nothing like that group. The other part of it is Coach K's history of bullying and berating officials and his holier than thou attitude that he was better than everyone else. Also excusing and tolerating nonsense like Christian Laettner stomping a player. I don't sense the same hate for Jon Scheyer and his program whatsoever.

Alabama hate is definitely the success under Saban. And the S-E-C S-E-C crowd that thinks their programs should get propped up because of Alabama's success. That's the primary reason the entire SEC is hated.

Notre Dame's hate goes back years when playing on TV mattered (everyone is on TV now) and their NBC media deal. I think Lou Holtz was a big factor too. I don't think ND has been hated in the last 20 years nearly as much but that's probably because they've had plenty of down years.

I've never sensed USC was hated. But I'm not close enough to them to really know. Same for Texas or A&M. I know they hate each other but never sensed either was hated nationally.

I feel like right or wrong Ohio State is hated because they are seen as more dirty than even the dirty programs. At least before all this stuff is now out in the open. Now the hate is probably because they win so much. Never felt like Michigan was hated on an equal level but Harbaugh tried.

Clemson gets hate especially when they are in the top 5 because Dabo puts his faith out there and can get preachy and people don't like that.

Colorado has been hated because of Deion and his style. Nothing to do with the school or team history.
 
Duke is definitely hated in basketball but only partly for the success. A lot of it is the walmart fan that adopts them and talks trash. Their actual students are just fine and nothing like that group. The other part of it is Coach K's history of bullying and berating officials and his holier than thou attitude that he was better than everyone else. Also excusing and tolerating nonsense like Christian Laettner stomping a player. I don't sense the same hate for Jon Scheyer and his program whatsoever.

Alabama hate is definitely the success under Saban. And the S-E-C S-E-C crowd that thinks their programs should get propped up because of Alabama's success. That's the primary reason the entire SEC is hated.

Notre Dame's hate goes back years when playing on TV mattered (everyone is on TV now) and their NBC media deal. I think Lou Holtz was a big factor too. I don't think ND has been hated in the last 20 years nearly as much but that's probably because they've had plenty of down years.

I've never sensed USC was hated. But I'm not close enough to them to really know. Same for Texas or A&M. I know they hate each other but never sensed either was hated nationally.

I feel like right or wrong Ohio State is hated because they are seen as more dirty than even the dirty programs. At least before all this stuff is now out in the open. Now the hate is probably because they win so much. Never felt like Michigan was hated on an equal level but Harbaugh tried.

Clemson gets hate especially when they are in the top 5 because Dabo puts his faith out there and can get preachy and people don't like that.

Colorado has been hated because of Deion and his style. Nothing to do with the school or team history.
With Duke basketball you can also throw out there Coach K embracing the one and done recruiting afrer once criticizing John Calipari for it. Damn hypocrite.
 
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I think a great way to judge hate is by how many rivalries exist.

For example: The one thing you can do to unite a Chief, Bronco and Charger fan (if you could find one) is ask them who they hate. 100% it will be the Raiders. Notre Dame has... gee, I don't know how many rivalries that exist with other schools.

Interesting. I think of USC as Notre Dame's rival but not really any other school seems notable. Big games of course when they play a top school. But not what I'd call an intense rivalry outside of USC.
 
ChatGPT to the white courtesy phone. LOL.


Top “Most Hated” Colleges (U.S.) — General Public / Pop Culture
  1. University of Alabama
    • 🏈 Dominance in college football under Nick Saban.
    • Perceived arrogance from fans (aka “Bama fatigue”).
  2. University of Southern California (USC)
    • 🎬 Glamorous L.A. image, “Hollywood” reputation.
    • Perceived entitlement, especially during Pete Carroll’s era.
    • Linked to college admissions scandal.
  3. University of Notre Dame
    • ⛪ Polarizing due to its independent football status, Catholic identity, and historic media deals.
    • Has a national fanbase, which irks regional rivals.
  4. Duke University
    • 🏀 Basketball program success under Coach K.
    • Perception of elitism and smugness.
    • “Duke hate” is a cultural phenomenon in March Madness.
  5. Harvard University
    • 🧠 Seen as the ultimate symbol of academic elitism.
    • Criticized for exclusivity, privilege, and old-money culture.
  6. Yale & Princeton
    • 🏛️ Similar to Harvard — disliked more for symbolism than specific actions.
  7. Ohio State University
    • 🟥 The “THE” in The Ohio State University.
    • Football dominance, polarizing fanbase.
  8. University of Michigan
    • 🟡 Arrogance and academic pride.
    • Long-standing rivalries (Ohio State, Michigan State).
  9. Texas A&M University
    • 🎖️ Military traditions and cult-like fan culture can be polarizing.
    • “Yell Leaders” and over-the-top traditions invite mockery.
  10. University of Texas at Austin
  • 🧡 Seen as arrogant by in-state rivals.
  • “Texas is back” jokes every year in football.

That feels like a good example of AI fail though. Harvard? Really? Who hates Harvard besides Yale?
 
Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
Yep, we Oregon fans do not like it when others call Oregon OU. It is U of O.
People call is anything other than Oregon? They really should just change the name to Knight University though. Imagine the uniform possibilities.....
The other thing that annoys us is when pronounce Oregon wrong. It is pronounced Oregun, not Oregone.

I don't think I've heard many pronounce it Oregone. Is that a common thing?
 
ChatGPT to the white courtesy phone. LOL.


Top “Most Hated” Colleges (U.S.) — General Public / Pop Culture
  1. University of Alabama
    • 🏈 Dominance in college football under Nick Saban.
    • Perceived arrogance from fans (aka “Bama fatigue”).
  2. University of Southern California (USC)
    • 🎬 Glamorous L.A. image, “Hollywood” reputation.
    • Perceived entitlement, especially during Pete Carroll’s era.
    • Linked to college admissions scandal.
  3. University of Notre Dame
    • ⛪ Polarizing due to its independent football status, Catholic identity, and historic media deals.
    • Has a national fanbase, which irks regional rivals.
  4. Duke University
    • 🏀 Basketball program success under Coach K.
    • Perception of elitism and smugness.
    • “Duke hate” is a cultural phenomenon in March Madness.
  5. Harvard University
    • 🧠 Seen as the ultimate symbol of academic elitism.
    • Criticized for exclusivity, privilege, and old-money culture.
  6. Yale & Princeton
    • 🏛️ Similar to Harvard — disliked more for symbolism than specific actions.
  7. Ohio State University
    • 🟥 The “THE” in The Ohio State University.
    • Football dominance, polarizing fanbase.
  8. University of Michigan
    • 🟡 Arrogance and academic pride.
    • Long-standing rivalries (Ohio State, Michigan State).
  9. Texas A&M University
    • 🎖️ Military traditions and cult-like fan culture can be polarizing.
    • “Yell Leaders” and over-the-top traditions invite mockery.
  10. University of Texas at Austin
  • 🧡 Seen as arrogant by in-state rivals.
  • “Texas is back” jokes every year in football.

I wouldn't say Michigan folk are arrogant. I mean, we went to the greatest university in the history of the world. Does that make us better than you? Yes it does.

But that's not really arrogance. More like fact.
 
This Feels way more accurate from Sports Illustrated.


The ChatGPT list was about hated schools, not hated college football programs (no one is hating on Yale football). Re USC, it’s hard to be a hated college football program when you haven’t been relevant for 10+ years! But USC football was no doubt hated during the Pete Carroll era.

In any event, I’m not trying to vouch for AI veracity. Just that I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the university of spoiled children gets a fair amount of hate directed its way as compared to other schools. Perhaps it’s only on the West Coast.
 
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Side note for the OU fans, why is it OU when the name is University of Oklahoma?
So weird we were just talking about that.

I've never understood. Oregon, as I understand it, is UO.

The University of Kansas is also KU.

With zero actual knowledge, my assumption is that is just sounds better off the tongue.
Yep, we Oregon fans do not like it when others call Oregon OU. It is U of O.
People call is anything other than Oregon? They really should just change the name to Knight University though. Imagine the uniform possibilities.....
The other thing that annoys us is when pronounce Oregon wrong. It is pronounced Oregun, not Oregone.

I don't think I've heard many pronounce it Oregone. Is that a common thing?
Not common but it happens more than you think.
 

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