2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Rags retires before camp. (21 Viewers)

[Ilov80s]

Ok, here's post Jameson " Juice" Williams suspension

6. DE Tyree Wison- he's not really a guy I love but I think DL or QB is way to go
18. CB Deonte Banks
48. DT Keeanu Benton
56. WR Cedric Tillman
81. WR Jayden Reed

Who knows after that, certainly an OG.

Better than a lot I've seen and not far from my list. I like Benton and Tillman in those spots. Maybe a LB or OG in the 81 spot.

I kind of like the idea of the WR double tap at 56-81. The WRs just aren’t there to justify a pick at 18. So instead maybe bring 2 guys in, hopefully at least one works out. If they both do, you are covered in case Jamo is a dud. If they both work out and Jamo hits, then Detroit has one of the deepest and most talented young WR cores in the league.

 

[Ilov80s]

I mean, have you (outside of fantasy context) ever looked at an NFL team and said “they have too many good receivers”?

 

[jon_mx]

If Will Anderson is still on the board at #3, the Lions will trade up to get him. Otherwise they trade back to 11 and pickup a second, and getting Witherspoon/Gonzalez. I don't see us staying put at 6.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Ok, here's post Jameson " Juice" Williams suspension

6. DE Tyree Wison- he's not really a guy I love but I think DL or QB is way to go
18. CB Deonte Banks
48. DT Keeanu Benton
56. WR Cedric Tillman
81. WR Jayden Reed

Who knows after that, certainly an OG.

This is pretty solid.

If Carter and Richardson are both there I think we can find a trading partner. Hoping we take 2024 picks if we do move back. We already have 8 picks for 2024 (our 7 plus MIN 3rd) but I want to load up so we can move into the top ten [next year.]

Wilson is a better run defender than I realized. He’s a big swing and honestly I don’t want a slap single, let’s go big or go home. If he hits he could be elite.

Not sure Banks is going to fit our scheme but you either take spoon or settle. Surprisingly they’re really investing a lot of resources in evaluating Emmanuel Forbes - at 166 he’d be the lightest corner in the league. But he is sticky, athletic and has great ball skills.

At 48 I’m hoping we move up to get Steve Avila. But if we’re sticking and picking, Benton is pretty good. He’s a rare blend of 2 gapper who actually has some interior pass rush skills.

As @TartanLion brought up yesterday, Tillman’s 2021 tape was pretty good, played hurt all last year.

Honestly not impressed with Jayden but he did have a great Senior Bowl week and he’s having a good predraft cycle. I’d prefer to double dip here and take another project X like A.T. Perry or Rashee Rice. But if Tucker Kraft is still on the board I’d sprint to the podium.

Pretty solid overall though. We should also find some solid value with 152, 159, 183 & 194, but those guys generally have a low hit rate.

**************

I’m going to do a series of long post positional rundowns starting with DT and DE this weekend. While DI pressure creator is the biggest need, this Edge class is so good I could see us taking one, two if we can land a versatile guy who can slide inside.

 

[Ilov80s]

Ok, here's post Jameson " Juice" Williams suspension

6. DE Tyree Wison- he's not really a guy I love but I think DL or QB is way to go
18. CB Deonte Banks
48. DT Keeanu Benton
56. WR Cedric Tillman
81. WR Jayden Reed

Who knows after that, certainly an OG.

This is pretty solid.

If Carter and Richardson are both there I think we can find a trading partner. Hoping we take 2024 picks if we do move back. We already have 8 picks for 2024 (our 7 plus MIN 3rd) but I want to load up so we can move into the top ten [next year.]

Wilson is a better run defender than I realized. He’s a big swing and honestly I don’t want a slap single, let’s go big or go home. If he hits he could be elite.

Not sure Banks is going to fit our scheme but you either take spoon or settle. Surprisingly they’re really investing a lot of resources in evaluating Emmanuel Forbes - at 166 he’d be the lightest corner in the league. But he is sticky, athletic and has great ball skills.

At 48 I’m hoping we move up to get Steve Avila. But if we’re sticking and picking, Benton is pretty good. He’s a rare blend of 2 gapper who actually has some interior pass rush skills.

As @TartanLion brought up yesterday, Tillman’s 2021 tape was pretty good, played hurt all last year.

Honestly not impressed with Jayden but he did have a great Senior Bowl week and he’s having a good predraft cycle. I’d prefer to double dip here and take another project X like A.T. Perry or Rashee Rice. But if Tucker Kraft is still on the board I’d sprint to the podium.

Pretty solid overall though. We should also find some solid value with 152, 159, 183 & 194, but those guys generally have a low hit rate.

**************

I’m going to do a series of long post positional rundowns starting with DT and DE this weekend. While DI pressure creator is the biggest need, this Edge class is so good I could see us taking one, two if we can land a versatile guy who can slide inside.

I can’t really say anything on Reed other than other people seem to like him. Gets open- no special trait but just well rounded. I’ve seen a Diggs playing style comp. Perry and Tillman are 23 which I don’t love. It’s just that kind of class though at WR. Lots of warts.

 

[Chaka]

I am not a big Swift fan but lets name NFL RBs definitely better

1. JT
2. CMC
3. Ekeler
4. Henry*
5. Pollard
6. Chubb
7. ETN
8. Breece
9. Dalvin*
10. Aaron Jones*
11. Jacobs
12. Saquon
13. Bijan
14. Walker
15. Kamara*

Asterisks are for guys that have been much better but their age raises some significant questions

Now I am getting into the probably-maybe- idk area

Rhamondre, Gibbs, Sanders, Najee, Monty

Swift can be great but he also carries a huge * with his history of missed time, doesn't he? If I could guarantee 17 games from all parties, I'm still not sure the Lions have the best backfield in the division.

IMO it's the Lions OL that is the differentiating factor when comparing Monty/Swift vs other backfields.

But a RB assessment in a vacuum? Yeah, I think, in a very tight field they are 3rd in the NFC North.

I like Foreman & Herbert on paper but they are both, mostly, 2-down guys. Talented but incomplete.

 

[Chaka]

I think Chaka answered that by saying that the Lions tandem is probably 4th in their own division.

I would agree that based on potential the Lions may have the best. But Swift’s usage was unpredictable and mysterious.

Which to me means unreliable.

Lions didn’t explain what was going on

Swift got 11.5 touches per game. That's pretty normal usage for a 2 headed RB offense.

You could make the argument Cook & Jones were marginally better than Jamaal’s season. Monty, who wasn’t bad by any measure, was the division’s #4 lead back - and just got a massive upgrade in OL.

As far as duos go, Mattison has no weekly role when Cook is healthy. That was mostly true for Herbert but he showed some good burst in his fill in weeks. Foreman is a big downgrade just from a skill set perspective - one of the worst pass pro backs with little to no receiving chops. Dillon had a down year.

You could argue the Lions are 3rd or 4th in the lead back role but as a duo they’re either 1st or 2nd.

Are we judging weekly role in the offense, perceived ability or how the offense around them impacts their potential production?

Look, Swift has been amazing in limited usage but his availability is as big a red flag as any comp in the division. 16 starts in 50 games. Technically he has apparently played in 40 of 50 games but ask anyone who has rostered him and you know he has been effectively MIA in what? 30% of those games? More?

No, he's the biggest RB asterisk in the division. And he's probably top 3 RB asterisk in the league.

And we haven't gotten to the potential issues with Montgomery who may simply be a "decent/good at many things but great at nothing" kind of guy.

I still haven't looked at RB rosters throughout the league but I have trouble seeing these two, by themselves, as the best tandem in the league.

However, with the Lions scheme and OL this should be a truly formidable backfield.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Ok, here's post Jameson " Juice" Williams suspension

6. DE Tyree Wison- he's not really a guy I love but I think DL or QB is way to go
18. CB Deonte Banks
48. DT Keeanu Benton
56. WR Cedric Tillman
81. WR Jayden Reed

Who knows after that, certainly an OG.

This is pretty solid.

If Carter and Richardson are both there I think we can find a trading partner. Hoping we take 2024 picks if we do move back. We already have 8 picks for 2024 (our 7 plus MIN 3rd) but I want to load up so we can move into the top ten [next year.]

Wilson is a better run defender than I realized. He’s a big swing and honestly I don’t want a slap single, let’s go big or go home. If he hits he could be elite.

Not sure Banks is going to fit our scheme but you either take spoon or settle. Surprisingly they’re really investing a lot of resources in evaluating Emmanuel Forbes - at 166 he’d be the lightest corner in the league. But he is sticky, athletic and has great ball skills.

At 48 I’m hoping we move up to get Steve Avila. But if we’re sticking and picking, Benton is pretty good. He’s a rare blend of 2 gapper who actually has some interior pass rush skills.

As @TartanLion brought up yesterday, Tillman’s 2021 tape was pretty good, played hurt all last year.

Honestly not impressed with Jayden but he did have a great Senior Bowl week and he’s having a good predraft cycle. I’d prefer to double dip here and take another project X like A.T. Perry or Rashee Rice. But if Tucker Kraft is still on the board I’d sprint to the podium.

Pretty solid overall though. We should also find some solid value with 152, 159, 183 & 194, but those guys generally have a low hit rate.

**************

I’m going to do a series of long post positional rundowns starting with DT and DE this weekend. While DI pressure creator is the biggest need, this Edge class is so good I could see us taking one, two if we can land a versatile guy who can slide inside.

I can’t really say anything on Reed other than other people seem to like him. Gets open- no special trait but just well rounded. I’ve seen a Diggs playing style comp. Perry and Tillman are 23 which I don’t love. It’s just that kind of class though at WR. Lots of warts.

100%, but at 81 you're just taking a swing. You'd like to hit a double but you're def gonna strike out a lot late Day 2. Hit rates for Wide Receivers outside the Top 50 is pretty low.

I love Perry but it's a ton of projection bc Wake Forest plays such a weird offense - slow developing RPO thing with choice routes for all the receivers - nothing like an NFL offenses. But he has some physical traits that should translate.

 

[jrt103]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

 

[King of the Jungle]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

 

[Ilov80s]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

Yikes

 

[TwinTurbo]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

That list further reinforces the idea that they need to draft a WR, not necessarily in the first 2 rounds but maybe a gem drops to round 3.

 

[Ilov80s]

I am not a big Swift fan but lets name NFL RBs definitely better

1. JT
2. CMC
3. Ekeler
4. Henry*
5. Pollard
6. Chubb
7. ETN
8. Breece
9. Dalvin*
10. Aaron Jones*
11. Jacobs
12. Saquon
13. Bijan
14. Walker
15. Kamara*

Asterisks are for guys that have been much better but their age raises some significant questions

Now I am getting into the probably-maybe- idk area

Rhamondre, Gibbs, Sanders, Najee, Monty

Swift can be great but he also carries a huge * with his history of missed time, doesn't he? If I could guarantee 17 games from all parties, I'm still not sure the Lions have the best backfield in the division.

IMO it's the Lions OL that is the differentiating factor when comparing Monty/Swift vs other backfields.

But a RB assessment in a vacuum? Yeah, I think, in a very tight field they are 3rd in the NFC North.

I like Foreman & Herbert on paper but they are both, mostly, 2-down guys. Talented but incomplete.

I disagree on that assessment and I'm very much on the Swift ain't it train. He's hurt a lot and can't be a feature back but he's very good for a certain role. Dalvin is washed, Mattison is jag central casting. Aaron Jones is good. AJ Dillon is big and fast. I would rather have the Lions RBs but GB does have one of the better pairings in the league.

 

[TwinTurbo]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

To be fair, why would you make moves on that list? I would rather run a 3TE set than watch Sammy Watkins take the field for the Lions

 

[TwinTurbo]

Monty is the lead back. The question is how many #2 backs are better than Swift?

Any of the #2 backs that stay healthy, all those backs are better.

 

[Chaka]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

They have likely known for awhile and haven't made a move. So, maybe we should all just chill.

IDK about you but I trust Brad Holmes over anyone of us...except maybe Bobby Layne. That dude knows his ####.

 

[BobbyLayne]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

none of the above would be my vote

 

[Ilov80s]

Monty is the lead back. The question is how many #2 backs are better than Swift?

Any of the #2 backs that stay healthy, all those backs are better.

I am sorry but the hate has gone too far. Yes Swift gets banged up often and it's frustrating but he plays at least 13 games every year. He's about as good as it gets for a 1B.

 

[Ilov80s]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

They have likely known for awhile and haven't made a move. So, maybe we should all just chill.

IDK about you but I trust Brad Holmes over anyone of us...except maybe Bobby Layne. That dude knows his ####.

I felt so much better when I found out the Lions likely knew about this for awhile. I trust MCDC and Bad Brad but I am not sure what they are plotting. I can't wait to find out.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I mean, have you (outside of fantasy context) ever looked at an NFL team and said “they have too many good receivers”?

Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl

 

[Chaka]

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

 

[Ilov80s]

I mean, have you (outside of fantasy context) ever looked at an NFL team and said “they have too many good receivers”?

Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Hakim, Proehl

Exactly, worked out great.

 

[Ilov80s]

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

Dalvin has had the good fortune of playing on good offenses with quality QB play and receiving threats. Monty has not. Obviously Dalvin was much more talented but I think all the signs are there that Cook is past his prime.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Monty is the lead back. The question is how many #2 backs are better than Swift?

Any of the #2 backs that stay healthy, all those backs are better.

I am sorry but the hate has gone too far. Yes Swift gets banged up often and it's frustrating but he plays at least 13 games every year. He's about as good as it gets for a 1B.

It's not hate, I like him, I just wish he could stay healthy. And I know RB is not the most durable position in general, but from the Kevin's to Javid Best to Abdullah to K.Johnson to Swift, the Lions seem to always get pulled into the magnetic field for injury prone RBs.

 

[King of the Jungle]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

They have likely known for awhile and haven't made a move. So, maybe we should all just chill.

IDK about you but I trust Brad Holmes over anyone of us...except maybe Bobby Layne. That dude knows his ####.

Maybe the last 30 years of me being a fan of this team have something to do with my panic. I do trust Holmes has a plan but this whole thing has thrown me off a bit after what has been a great off-season for this franchise. Back to my breathing exercises I go…

 

[Ilov80s]

It's not hate, I like him, I just wish he could stay healthy. And I know RB is not the most durable position in general, but from the Kevin's to Javid Best to Abdullah to K. Johnson to Swift, the Lions seem to always get pulled into the magnetic field for injury prone RBs.

Sure feel like that sadly. At least Swiftr provides something special when he does play:

2nd in yards created per touch, 7th in EPA, 2nd in yards per touch

 

[Chaka]

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

Dalvin has had the good fortune of playing on good offenses with quality QB play and receiving threats. Monty has not. Obviously Dalvin was much more talented but I think all the signs are there that Cook is past his prime.

Totally agree that Dalvin is on the back half but what is the argument that Monty isn't as well?

I'll rephrase, if you could get both guys at the same price and behind the Lions OL in 2023 who would you rather have: Monty or Dalvin?

 

[Ilov80s]

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

Dalvin has had the good fortune of playing on good offenses with quality QB play and receiving threats. Monty has not. Obviously Dalvin was much more talented but I think all the signs are there that Cook is past his prime.

Totally agree that Dalvin is on the back half but what is the argument that Monty isn't as well?

I'll rephrase, if you could get both guys at the same price and behind the Lions OL in 2023 who would you rather have: Monty or Dalvin?

Good question. For just 2023, I would take Dalvin. For the next 3, I prefer Monty. It's just age. Monty is 2 full years younger.

 

[travdogg]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

You know, assuming its for close to the league minimum, I'd be happy to bring Golladay back, and hope it was just a really bad fit in NY. Worst case, at least he's a good blocker.

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

Dalvin has had the good fortune of playing on good offenses with quality QB play and receiving threats. Monty has not. Obviously Dalvin was much more talented but I think all the signs are there that Cook is past his prime.

Totally agree that Dalvin is on the back half but what is the argument that Monty isn't as well?

I'll rephrase, if you could get both guys at the same price and behind the Lions OL in 2023 who would you rather have: Monty or Dalvin?

Speaking as a Bears fan, I'd take Dalvin over Montgomery. Montgomery was really only good in one season, I think its close, as Cook is clearly no longer in his prime, but I still think he offers more upside, with a pretty equal floor.

ETA: I kinda think Jamaal Williams was better than either.

 

[Moonlight]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

The above list is depressing. Could have grabbed Olamide Zaccheaus who the Eagles just signed.Assuming they have known about this for awhile I don’t understand why they have not made any moves.

They have likely known for awhile and haven't made a move. So, maybe we should all just chill.

IDK about you but I trust Brad Holmes over anyone of us...except maybe Bobby Layne. That dude knows his ####.

Maybe the last 30 years of me being a fan of this team have something to do with my panic. I do trust Holmes has a plan but this whole thing has thrown me off a bit after what has been a great off-season for this franchise. Back to my breathing exercises I go…

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

 

[Ilov80s]

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

Totally but the Lions are planning to win big this year- their offseason screams win in 2023. 6 games can be the difference between a home playoff game vs a road playoff game.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

Totally but the Lions are planning to win big this year- their offseason screams win in 2023. 6 games can be the difference between a home playoff game vs a road playoff game.

Exactly this. For the first time since the dinosaur age there are expectations for this franchise and they have made the right moves to get to this point. Now here we are and what seemed to be an important part of the offense will be missing. It would not be as big of deal if he was a 3-4 year vet who has been producing on the NFL field before, but he is essentially a rookie again who needs all the experience he can get if we have a shot to make some noise this year. Maybe not the “sky is falling” scenario but it is certainly a big setback IMO.

 

[Max Power]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

Still a decent chance Corey Davis gets cut

 

[Ilov80s]

If the Lions are forced to now sign another WR free agent, who is their best option?

Top free agents according to random internet list:

Jarvis Landry
Demarcus Robinson
Kenny Golladay


Julio Jones
Sammy Watkins
T.Y. Hilton

Still a decent chance Corey Davis gets cut

That would be huge. He was hurt last year and could just be a total nothing but I could see Davis sneaking out a tasty little run here. He will be 28 this season, he's still in his prime window.

 

[Apple Juice]

Davis towers above the other names mentioned. He was banged up last year but is still a strong blocker and would give us some size on the outside.

 

[Chaka]

Dalvin is washed

Seriously? You lost me here.

Dalvin's washed but Montgomery is top 25?

Dalvin's worst yards/touch in a season (4.8) would be Monty's 2nd best (and Monty's best was 3 seasons ago and only 0.1 yards/touch better (5.0 to 4.9).

Dalvin has had the good fortune of playing on good offenses with quality QB play and receiving threats. Monty has not. Obviously Dalvin was much more talented but I think all the signs are there that Cook is past his prime.

Totally agree that Dalvin is on the back half but what is the argument that Monty isn't as well?

I'll rephrase, if you could get both guys at the same price and behind the Lions OL in 2023 who would you rather have: Monty or Dalvin?

Good question. For just 2023, I would take Dalvin. For the next 3, I prefer Monty. It's just age. Monty is 2 full years younger.

I would give the same answer.

But 2024 is decades away in RB years.

Dalvin>>Monty

 

[BobbyLayne]

There is a non-zero chance DHop flat out gets cut if they can't find a trading partner. I don't want him (diva) but that's a huge huge talent, and he played at a very high level after he came back from his PED suspension,.

 

[Moonlight]

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

Totally but the Lions are planning to win big this year- their offseason screams win in 2023. 6 games can be the difference between a home playoff game vs a road playoff game.

Exactly this. For the first time since the dinosaur age there are expectations for this franchise and they have made the right moves to get to this point. Now here we are and what seemed to be an important part of the offense will be missing. It would not be as big of deal if he was a 3-4 year vet who has been producing on the NFL field before, but he is essentially a rookie again who needs all the experience he can get if we have a shot to make some noise this year. Maybe not the “sky is falling” scenario but it is certainly a big setback IMO.

Championship teams overcome adversity. We are talking about 6 games from a guy who didn’t contribute much while they went 8-2. It doesn’t help but it’s not a death blow.
They have many different ways they could compensate and a lot of time to figure it out.

 

[Ilov80s]

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

Totally but the Lions are planning to win big this year- their offseason screams win in 2023. 6 games can be the difference between a home playoff game vs a road playoff game.

Exactly this. For the first time since the dinosaur age there are expectations for this franchise and they have made the right moves to get to this point. Now here we are and what seemed to be an important part of the offense will be missing. It would not be as big of deal if he was a 3-4 year vet who has been producing on the NFL field before, but he is essentially a rookie again who needs all the experience he can get if we have a shot to make some noise this year. Maybe not the “sky is falling” scenario but it is certainly a big setback IMO.

Championship teams overcome adversity. We are talking about 6 games from a guy who didn’t contribute much while they went 8-2. It doesn’t help but it’s not a death blow.
They have many different ways they could compensate and a lot of time to figure it out.

You are right, not sure why I got worried about the Lions. Silly

 

[BobbyLayne]

Finishing up my write up on Edge rusher, have about 34 profiles - basically everyone with a draftable grade or at worst priority UDFA. Have the narratives finished but want to add some PFF grades and testing data.

Will probably also do a writeup on Defensive Tackles - that will be much shorter because it's not as deep

Hopefully another long post on Cornerbacks by Tuesday/Wednesday - will be a similar length to the Edge player profiles.

I may or may not write up linebackers, this class is weak and I don't think Detroit is targeting anyone.

Spoiler

I heard someone speculate they're looking at Noah Sewell and I swear i'll throw my remote if we take that slow lumpy thumper, we have enough brothers on this team already, but it would def be on brand. Other than Demarvion Overshawn and Drew Simpson I don't think we are looking hard at OLB.

Not doing offensive write-ups because I haven't been focused on them yet, I'll get to that post draft when I'm prepping for fantasy. For FF purposes landing spot and draft capital is everything. I have been studying film only on defenders because that's what this draft should heavily emphasize for the Lions.

Per PFF and EPA, the offense was 8th overall and the defense was 29th. This isn't rocket science. Get AG some talent, let's see if he actually knows how to DC. Talks a good game, leader of men, but the performance results have to be much, much better this year. I think they will be but dang what's it been, 9 years (2014) since we had a good D around the D?

 

[Chaka]

There is a non-zero chance DHop flat out gets cut if they can't find a trading partner. I don't want him (diva) but that's a huge huge talent, and he played at a very high level after he came back from his PED suspension,.

Diva? I don't think that was the motivation for Houston trading him. What's your measuring stick for diva?

I don't follow that close, and I defer to you because I think you follow closer, but I don't remember a pattern of negative attitude from Hopkins.

On a scale from zero to Antonio Brown where does Hopkins fall?

 

[Ilov80s]

@BobbyLayne if there is a wiser Lions fan, I haven''t met him. Thanks for your awesome contributions to the Lions thread.

 

[Moonlight]

I understand what you are saying here. But Lions knew it was coming and it’s only for @ third of the season. It would be rougher if it happened during the season.
Lions will approach it from a long term perspective. They have options.

It’s a bump in the road and not a road block.

Real issue for me is improving the defense.

Totally but the Lions are planning to win big this year- their offseason screams win in 2023. 6 games can be the difference between a home playoff game vs a road playoff game.

Exactly this. For the first time since the dinosaur age there are expectations for this franchise and they have made the right moves to get to this point. Now here we are and what seemed to be an important part of the offense will be missing. It would not be as big of deal if he was a 3-4 year vet who has been producing on the NFL field before, but he is essentially a rookie again who needs all the experience he can get if we have a shot to make some noise this year. Maybe not the “sky is falling” scenario but it is certainly a big setback IMO.

Championship teams overcome adversity. We are talking about 6 games from a guy who didn’t contribute much while they went 8-2. It doesn’t help but it’s not a death blow.
They have many different ways they could compensate and a lot of time to figure it out.

You are right, not sure why I got worried about the Lions. Silly

I believe in the new culture. Campbell isn’t afraid of adversity or a challenge. He’s instilled this into the team so I don’t think we should be worried that not having Jameson Williams for 6 games is going to cost us the season.

Now if we lost Goff that’s another matter but they are working on that too.

 

[Moonlight]

An important matter regarding Jameson Williams is whether the Lions go after his signing bonus.

Do you use this moment as a disciplinary tool or do the lions look at him losing hundreds of thousands of dollars as a sufficient penalty?

I would think that the bad blood between Calvin Johnson and the lions may cause some hesitation.

For me, I suppose, how flagrant and numerous the violations were and the circumstances, would have some effect on which course I chose.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I will come back tomorrow to edit and add more info after I get back from church but here's the basic framework.....

 

[BobbyLayne]

There is not a lot of original content here, I am basically summarizing thoughts from high quality YouTubers like Brett Kollman and Marcus That Franchise Guy, the PFF Draft Guide (Renner), and various podcasts. I can’t get all-22 for CFB and think it’s a fools errand to scout off broadcast tape or highlights.

This is the first of three long profiles. Previously I wrote up the RAS scores of Tight End prospects with thumbnail profiles. These are a deep dive at all the defenders in this class. After Edge, I will cover Interior Defensive Lineman. The third and last in the series will be on Cornerbacks. I may or may not do a short post on OLB, it’s a weak class and the Lions are only looking at a couple of them. I won’t be surprised if we do not draft one.

EDGE PLAYERS 2023 DRAFT PROSPECTS

Tier 1 (four players - top 16 picks)

These guys are Batman.

Will Anderson Alabama
6’ 3-½ ” 253
4.6 40 / 1.61 10-yrd split
PFF grade 83.6
37 career sacks 206 career pressures
Fit from a scheme perspective is a minor concern - Alabama used him as a 5-tech and 4i in 2022, two roles he will never see in the NFL. Best role on Sunday will be a wide 9 Edge, doesn’t matter if you put his hand in the dirt or not. Great at converting speed to power, not the bendiest player (bit stiff in the hips), explosive first step, hand placement and technique are awesome. Can do the euro step in combination with bend, great array of tools in his toolbelt. Don’t think he’ll do well in tighter alignments - that was demonstrated in his Y3 production v his sophomore year. You want him to just go rush the passer. He is a good run defender but keep him in attack mode; see quarterback, go crush QB. Will be a double digit sack per season guy. May not be the first ED taken but probably Top 2. Every down edge with bend and burst, pass rush technique variety, and never comes off the field. He is elite and unique in this class.
NFL Player Comp - Randy Gregory

Tyree Wilson Texas Tech
6’6” 275
no testing - recovering from foot surgery
PFF grade 74.5
50 pressures 8 sacks 79.4 pass rushing grade in 2022
Probably the most versatile ED in this class, you could easily line him up as a 5-tech, could see him carrying 280 after a few years at NFL level nutrition and strength programs. Anderson is currently ahead of Wilson as a pass rusher but Wilson has more upside. He could go inside on pass downs, you could put him out in ghost wide 9, his floor is low but incredibly rare combination of length and strength. Watch his TCU tape v All American Steve Avila, he just took his lunch money all day. Can’t see him getting past Seattle at the latest, could be the first ED drafted. Caveat - transferred from A&M, and his SEC tape is a lost young puppy getting bullied by big dogs. Kudos on the improvement but late bloomer, which adds to the risk factor (early breakout is often a good predictor of NFL success.) Played inside and outside LB earlier in career, but he’s a true edge rusher.
Player Comp - Jason Pierre-Paul

Nolan Smith Georgia
6’2” 238
4.39 40 41.5” vertical 10’8” broad
PFF grade 83.7
Ignore Georgia player’s production, they don’t have stars - everyone has a role to play, heavy on using rotations, no designated rusher will rack up stats, so you have to project because “not a lot of production but that’s because he was playing his assignment” is a frequent mantra. He’s the real deal though. 7 sacks as a sophomore, torn pec last year shortened his season.
On the smaller side, but let me start by saying this is the best leader in the draft. I don’t mean an out of control screamer, he’s just got great skills, commanding presence, elite communicator, respected by everyone, dude has unimpeachable character. Could be a captain week one, dead serious. Those are rare traits. What he lacks in size he makes up in bend and burst. Hasan Reddick type player, could see 13-15 sack kind of production. There are very few tackles in the NFL who can close off outside landmarks in time to keep him out of the pocket. Good feet, crazy bend, you can drop him off in coverage, he logically shouldn’t be able to stack and shed at his size - but he can. Crushed the Combine testing. Plays special teams, can’t see him getting past the Texans at 12 or Philly at 10. Will be an immediate fan favorite. You want this guy at the podium every week. Number 1 recruit in the country in 2019, he’s not a lock to go top ten but he is a face of the franchise kind of guy.
PFF Player Comp Baron Browning

Myles Murphy Clemson
6’5” 268
small 8-½” hands 33.75” arms
PFF grade 79.0
33 hurries and 9 sacks as a sophomore, 21 and 6 as a junior
Polarizing player because like a lot of Clemson players, after several years of stardom there’s a bit of fatigue, and his 2021 tape is much better than last season (shocker, eh - Brent Venables was a really good DC, after ten years he moved on to become the big cheese at OU.) 6’5” 270 plays the run like a maniac, underwhelming testing but film don’t lie. His first step is terrific. Overwhelming pass rusher with great hand fighting skills to neutralize the punch, good on stunts, fantastic speed to power. Can’t drop into coverage but he can do everything else. Bigger risk than the other 3 players in Tier 1, you’re swinging for the fences here. Pro comp is Maxx Crosby. Not for the faint of heart, there is risk (50% of 1st round picks don’t amount to much), but if he hits it will be Pro Bowl after Pro Bowl.
PFF Player Comp Rashan Gary

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tier 2 (nine players - picks 17-48 are likely landing spots)

Ton of guys in this tier, and some of them will sneak into the first round. They have different strengths and traits and different fits. These are plus starters and most of them will be immediate contributors. The guys in Tier 1 are super heros already, all 9 of these guys have the raw material to become Batman.

Lukas Van Ness Iowa
6’5” 272
34” arms 11” hand size 4.58 40 7.02 3 Cone 31” vertical 9’10” broad 4.32 short shuttle
PFF grade
9 sacks 84.2 true pass rush grade
Poster child for a ball of clay you really want to work with. Never started a game in college. As a prospect he’s a bit absurd. At 270 those Combine numbers are abnormal. That shows up on tape. Great balance and fluidity you don’t see from guys his size very often. Less tape (RS soph) so he’s not Tier 1 but potentially could be a force. 6-tech, 5-tech in an odd front if he puts on 10 pounds, he even played 3-tech at Iowa - which he could probably do in the NFL if he put on 20. There’s more projection here than most players but he’s young, talented, and has the frame to fill out as a bigger, stronger player in a few years. Very uncommon change of direction ability, explosiveness, great bend. Mostly bull rush last year but there is so much room for development here. Could go around 10-17, even if he’s not exactly what you’re looking for there’s a lot to work with. Turns 22 in July, only played 940 career snaps with no starts in two years because of Iowa’s weird seniority system.
PFF NFL Player Comp Justin Smith

Keion White Goergia Tech (xfer ODU)
6’5” 286
4.58 40 10-Yrd Split 1.64 31” 9’10’’ Broad 3-Cone Drill 7.02 4.32 Shuttle 17 Bench
PFF grade 72.5
TE who switched to defense his sophomore year
Similar to LVN but bigger, and….very out of control. Sort of reminds me of the Tasmania Devil, and I’m not always sure what he’s trying to accomplish. Destructive explosiveness, able to collapse the pocket on stunts but doubt he’ll win on 2 way go v a G as a 3-tech, but in terms of flexibility he can play 4i 5-tech 6-tech, very strong, super high motor although it is a bit unfocused. Range is anywhere from 14-35, good player but will need good coaching.
PFF draft guide player comp: John Cominsky

Will McDonald Iowa State
6’4” 239
34-⅞“ arms 36” vert 11’0” broad
PFF grade 79.1
127 pressures and 35 sacks for his career
Big 12 defensive coordinators love to rush 3 and drop 8, so a lot of the Edge rushers from that conference had far fewer true pass rush reps and often played out of position. He will be a good specialist, going wide or playing 5-tech. Toasted everyone at the Senior Bowl, dropped down to 240 for the Combine and tested well, will probably play a little heavier. Good vert and broad, has a springy first step. The tape you see isn’t translatable to the NFL because it’s just different but he has traits to be a late first rounder/early second round pick.
NFL Player Comp Julian Okwara

Byron Young Tennessee (JUCO xfer)
6’2” 250
4.43 40 1.62 split 38” vert
PFF grade 63.6
42 pressures 9 sacks in 2022 11’0” broad 7.19 3-cone 22 bench
Not to be confused with DI Byron Young (Alabama)
Somewhat similar to McDonald functionally but different build, shorter arms. Won’t win on bull rush but pretty bendy and slippery, dip and flip around the corner. Looks great looping inside on stunts, strong finisher. Doesn’t have length or speed to power but teams that stunt a lot will love him. Could play offball LB. Flame thrower.
Player comp Leon Jacobs

B.J. Ojulari LSU
6’2” 248
34-¼“ arms 10.5” hands
PFF grade 75.8
17 sacks as DPR over 100 pressures 100 tackles for career
Midpoint between the last two, thick build, great leverage - 6’2” but 34-½” arms. Very much like Justin Houston, strong with good use of leverage. Nifty spin ghost move. Wore 18 at LSU which means nothing to us B1G guys but that’s a sacred LSU tradition reserved for great players who are exceptional leaders. Should be a Top 40 pick.
NFL Player Comp - Azeez Ojulari (hia older brother)

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tier 2 (could be Batman - continued)

Derrick Hall Auburn
6'3" 254
34-1/2" arms 10" hands 4.55 40 1.59 split 33.5" vert 10'7" broad
PFF grade 71.2
high school state finalist 200 meters
Very similar player to Ojulari, compact rusher, good hips, long arms with power, good first step, another Justin Houston type. Doesn't have as many counters as Ojulari, mostly bull rush. Not a liability against the run. Hasn’t gotten as much media attention but I think he’s underrated, feels like a safe pick. Anywhere in Round 2.
PFF player comp - Tyrone Holmes

Dylan Horton TCU
6'4" 257
33-1/8" arms 9-1/2" hands 34" vert 10'0" broad 18 bench
PFF grade 75.9
Has gotten less press than Hall because he plays in another one of those dumb Big 12 defensive schemes. Great first step, confirmed by testing. Overwhelming power, high motor, good hand usage. Early down versatility. High effort player through the whistle.
Player Comp - Duke Ejiofer

Tuli Tuipulotu USC
6'3" 266
32-1/2" arms 10-1/8" hands
PFF Grade 82.2
Didn’t test at Combine or Pro Day, nursing a hamstring. On tape he’s another bigger ED (266) who played mostly tackle early in his career then moved outside. Violent edge setter, fluid hips, contact balance is good, not quite the same speed to power as other guys in this tier, but pretty good bend and fluidity. Looks like a tackle playing edge, reminds me of Preston Smith. True tweener, could go lean and play stand up edge. Probably a mid 2nd rounder. Talented and versatile.
Player Comp - DeMarvin Leal

Felix Anudike-Uzomah Kansas State
6'3" 255
33-1/2" 9-5/8" hands
PFF Grade 74.6
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: 6’3” 255 Big 12 ED who was asked to play 5-tech. Of course he was. Unreal, it’s like all these DCs over there think dropping 8 is the only way to defend against spread offenses. Harder to evaluate because of the lack of true pass rush attempts. Very productive player, sawed off player built like Ojulari, can bull rush, good speed to power fastball, decent testing so he might have more bend than we realize in a different system than he played in college. Early to mid second round.
PFF Comp - Harold Landry

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tier 3 (six players)

If you have a Batman (Hutchinson), he’ll be a lot more effective if he has a Robin (James Houston IV and others.) With a dynamic duo, you can’t double team everyone. Extra complimentary player. These six guys are Robin, guys with special traits. Won’t be 12 sack guys but 6-9 sack production plus they bring some other role that is needed by the defense. These are solid players.

Nick Hampton Appalacian State
6'2" 236
PFF Grade 84.3
33.265" arms 9.5" hands 4.58 40 35.5" vert 10'0" broad
21 sacks last two seasons
Do you watch Sunbelt football? Me either, but I know this guy from Bruce Feldman’s annual Freaks list (20 freakiest athletes in football.) 6’2” 240 jumps 39 inches runs sub 4.6 40 hit 21 mph on the GPS incline presses 365 and sumo deadlifts 600 pounds. If you miss out on Nolan Smith, Hampton is right there in pass rush (though obviously he can’t power rush or play run defense agaisnt 330 pound tackles.) Speed and fluidity, can get to the corner super fast and puts his bend to use. Early in his career he was 200 pounds, but I think he can add a little more which puts him in Ojulari territory. Slender now doesn’t mean he’ll always be slender. Rotational pass rusher who could grow into a bigger role. Flame thrower.
Player Comp - Shaka Toney

Zach Harrison Ohio State and Isaiah Foskey Notre Dame
6'5-1/2" 274 / 6'5" 264
36-1/4" arms 10" hands bench 25 / 34" arms 9-7/8" hands 4.58 40 1.66 split 34’’ vert 10’ 5’’ Broad 3-Cone 7.28 Shuttle 4.41 Bench 22
They’re the same guy. Longer, thicker, run defenders, will go 3rd/4th round. Can bend the edge but that’s not their strength. They’re just not guys who can get to the corner quickly, which shows up in the film as well as testing - 3 Cone drill around 7.3 which is 3/10ths slower than most of the speed to power guys. But they will have a role at the next level, it just won’t be the star power sack specialists. Poor contact balance, really can’t rescue a rep they’re losing, need everything to line to get a sack. They can shorten the angle and power rush to cut the corner off but that’s a rough way to make a living. They are VERY good in run defense, you can trust them on first down. Good technique in that aspect, just not going to be double digit sack guys.
Player Comps: Isaiah Thomas / Marcus Davenport

Jose Ramirez Eastern Michigan
6'2" 242
32-3/4" 8-3/4" 4.73 40 1.63 split 34.5’’ vert 9’ 10’’ broad 3-Cone Drill 6.95 Shuttle 4.3 Bench 21
PFF Grade 88.3
10 sacks 50 pressures 39 run stops in 2022
This is one Robin who absolutely could become a Batman. But I’m just not comfortable saying a guy who beats the hell out of Michigan directional schools is going to be the same guy when he’s going up against SEC level talent every week. The tape is insane, one of the most productive ED rushers in the country, and the variety of his technique is impressive. Absolute psychopath, lthe sacks weren’t schemed up stunts, he won every way imaginable, from every stance and angle. He is scheme proof, you can drop him into any system. Good edge setter versus the run. You don’t have to teach this guy much, you can draft him in the 4th5th round and give him snaps Week 1. Could definitely be a 10 sack guy but for now i’m going to call him a complimentary player. He’s Super Robin.
Player Comp - Shaq Barrett

Yasir Abdullah Louisville and Yaya Diaby Louisville
6'1" 237 / 6'3" 263
32-3/8' arms 9-1/4" hands 4.47 40 1.56 split 36.5" vert 10'9" broad / 33--7/8" arms 10-3/8" 4.51 40 1.56 split 37" vert 10'0" broad
The two Louisville ED rushers have little in common except they wear the same colors and they’ll both go around the 4th/5th round. Very different body types but similar traits. Both these guys have explosive first steps that tackles cannot keep up with. Abdullah got the fun featured star role, 60 pressures, while Diaby got the grunt work as the 4i doing all the dirty work. But Yaya has good burst and bend, not as developed, tries to win more on pure athleticism, just don’t see a lot of moves, but he’s such a badass on stunts he still got 10 sacks. Coaches are going to recognize both these guys are coachable and just scratching the surface. Yasir can do stuff true offball LB can’t do, like dropping into coverage on match zone - as an Edge rusher! Saw him follow a guy on a wheel route, arm bar him, and then get the pick. Could be a Kyle Van Noy type. Not a lot of defenses have a role for those kind of hybrid players but any of the Vick Fangio defenses that still use Sam backers will want him.
Player comps - Antwan Barnes / Boye Mafe

Tier 4 (nine players)

Alfred is an integral part of the team. He’s neither Batman nor Robin yet he’s indispensable. Tier 4 is Alfred.

K.J. Henry
The other edge rusher opposite Myles Murphy. Actually had a higher pass rush win rate than Murphy or Bryan Bresee. Great technique. Beat GA Tech like a drum week 1. Reminds me of James Houston IV because he has the ability to put together a complex series of moves. Has some athletic limitations but his technique is exceptionally refined. Rotational guy, probably never going to get more than a handful of sacks but he’ll contribute.

Mike Morris
Michgian 2 point stance edge rusher, weird player because he’s bigger 6’5” 265 but he’s not a great athlete, first step is just OK, doesn’t really win the race to the corner, most of his wins were power collapses of the pocket. He’s not that good against the run, doesn’t sink his hips, doesn’t have a good anchor, wouldn’t trust him on early downs, other than stunts I don’t know what you do with him. Maybe he develops but the raw material isn’t great.

BJ Thompson
Stephen F Austin (previously at Baylor), older player - same class as Chase Young who is going into his 4th NFL year, but a lot of Covid timelines like that in this draft. Freaky athlete (another Feldman Freaks list guy.) 6’5” 240 11’3 broad 4.56 40 40” vertical 4.2 short shuttle. Had a **** Pro Day because he was sick that day. Lions have been looking at him closely. Looks like a safety the way he moves. Maybe doesn’t have a lot of pass rush tools right now but he plays special teams, you can drop him into coverage, and he’ll be a training camp darling because he’s such a great athlete. Freakiest freak of the freaks.

Nick Herbig and Derek Parish
Both these guys will be hybrid offball LB and Edge rushers. As pure pass rushers, great first step, low to the ground with bend, again like Houston IV as they are short guys with a small target area - you can’t find a place to punch them. Hasan Reddick lite. Really bendy with short area quicks.

Dante Stills
6’3-½” 286 makes him bigger than most edge rushers in this class, played a lot of 4i in college. If he dropped down to 270-275 maybe he could be an OLB. Like Hutch can play better from a 2-point stance because he needs to see the ball to recognize how the play is developing. Great leadership qualities.

Ikenna Enechukwu
Rice hasn’t been a hotbed for prospects but this guy is super physical, motor never stops, had an amazing game v USC. If you’re making Caleb Williams life hell you can play on Sundays. 4i, 5-tech, 6-tech, put him anywhere you want. Besides the USC tape, the level of competition is reason for concern. Played well at the East West Shrine Bowl, with the right coach he could develop into a starter.

Desjuan Johnson
Penetrating inside/outside player, probably going to move inside. Justin Tucker type, Edge on rushing downs and inside on passing down. Looks like an ED build. Very active player who is constantly in the backfield. Lateral quickness, very gifted interior rusher. Did not test well on Pro Day but trust the tape. Would be a good looper from 3-tech. Versatility will make him attractive. A MAC tweener is going to have to fight his way onto a roster from a late round or priority UDFA but he could have a long career.

Andre Carter II
Another player where the tape doesn’t match the testing, but honestly, the drills were so bad I don’t know if he plays at all Y1. This has been a shocking drop in the ranks, he looked like a mid-2nd round player at the end of the season but it’s a rough go for service academy players. IDK if he just doesn’t have the right nutrition or doesn’t have the infrastructure at West Point, but his Combine prep must have been dogshit. Vertical 30” broad 9’1” 4.86 40 decent 3 cone and shuttle which translates to getting to the corner. Trust the tape, trust the tape, he’s athletic - but you’re looking at a 3 year project, one year just to bulk him up, year two to work on technique. The Ravens develop guys like that, but it’s rare in todays NFL. He was a dominant edge rusher, but IDK where he’ll end up. Huge disparity between the tape and testing but I still believe in him.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Tier 5 (six players)

All the Tier 4 guys are talented. Tier 5 guys have significant concerns. They’re not bad players, they’ll be drafted or signed into camp as UDFAs, but it’s hard to figure out what they’ll be.

Caleb Murphy
Star of Ferris State’s back to back D-II champs, shorter stocky guy, not explosive testing but good 10 yard split. Converts speed to power, decent but not great bend, wrestling background which I always love for DL (contact balance, leverage), also played basketball, track, baseball. Like Carter II maybe didn’t have the right facilities to prep for the Combine but he’s a ball player. The film is great, he checks all the boxes except the testing. Terrific week at the Shrine Bowl.

Karl Brooks
Unique profile. 300 pound edge rusher. I’m not kidding, he’s not going inside. He is one of one, no one else like him in this draft (or the league TBH.) The tape shows great bend, corners really well, and has speed to power conversion. Will probably slim down but he’s explosive at 300. IKR, it’s weird. Not sure where he is going, didn’t get a Combine invite, PFF thinks he’s a 3rd rounder, most big boards have him being a 6th/7th rounder.