Ilov80s
Footballguy
In some sense, but I also think when it comes to the draft there is only so much edge anyone can get, ultimately getting late round hits does require some good fortune.
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2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 X-Season in the books. Time for final cuts. (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Training Camp notes
sifting through notes from a variety of sources...
sifting through notes from a variety of sources...
- WRs - it’s too early to tell, not putting pads on until Monday, but early indications from the limited reps is ARSB has the starting Slot locked down. Bolden and Raymond seem to be in a battle for backup slot/WR5, e.g., they’ll rarely see offensive snaps but will handle returning kicks (ARSB is the emergency plan B PR.) Cephus appears to be splitting reps outside with the starters. It’s esrly don’t read too much into it, but IMO he’s more capable of having a full route tree than the veteran burners.
- RBs - once again Swift & Williams look unstoppable out of the backfield. Don’t get too excited the guys covering them are not very talented.
- TEs - Alize Mack looks like the TE3 behind Fells & The Dude
- OL - Sewell one of two rookies with the first team on all reps.
- DL - Onwuzurike is being brought along slowly.Brockers, Hand & Williams rotating reps at DE. Rookie Alim McNeil is the starting NT over Penisini. It’s early, not in pads, et al.
- LBs - Reeves-Maybin on the Covid-19 list. Barnes is being brought along slowly. Weak group but Flowers and Okwara will be good blitzers from the edge.
- CBs - will almost surely carry 6. Okudah & Oruwariya starting, Ford is capable backup, Quintin Dunbar might be the slot CB? Not clear. Corn Elder is another veteran cover corner, and Ifeatu Melifonwu is a long term project. I think he’ll develope into a starter but not this year.
- S - Harris and Walker starting, Marlowe backup. I can’t talk about these guys without getting nauseous. It’s bad back there. This would have been a good draft to address that but whatever, Rome wasn’t built in a day, the overall roster is talent starved.
- p - who talks about their punter? Teams that have Josh Fox, that’s who. Everyone says the gall just sounds different booming off his foot. Great rookie year & pretty chill dude.
- K - I have nothing to say about Prater’s replacement except he doesn’t look as fat as he used to be.
- Dan Campbell opened up camp by doing 40 up downs with the players. He’s got a little Ted Lasso in him doesn’t he? That’s OK as long as the players respond.
- Amon-Ra St Brown catches 202 balls from the juggs machine after every practice. Hey, gotta have something to write about. But seriously the kid has a good work ethic.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
it’s early, non-contact drills, etc
During 7-on-7s and 11-on-11s, the Lions used the same six receivers with the starters every time. When they went just two wide we saw the following depth:
During 7-on-7s and 11-on-11s, the Lions used the same six receivers with the starters every time. When they went just two wide we saw the following depth:
- WR-X: Breshad Perriman, Bolden, Quintez Cephus
- WR-Z: Tyrell Williams, Raymond, Amon-Ra St. Brown
- WR-X: Perriman, Cephus
- Slot: St. Brown or Raymond
- WR-Z: Williams, Bolden
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Aubrey Pleasant getting rave reviews from coaches, players in first season with Detroit Lions
Good read. Exactly the kind of teacher-coach the young DBs need to develop.
__________
I thought Corn Elder would be the slot corner but from the first week reports it looks like Mike Ford has the inside track. He played well last year (PFF grade 80.8) and he’s getting a lot of buzz about how much he’s improved. Great athlete (9.73 RAS) who usually took the speedy WR when he got defensive snaps, looks like he’ll be more than a special teamer this year. Pretty rare to see UDFAs excel but like what I’m hearing about him.
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CB Jeff Okudah
At the risk of hyping him up too much, Okudah looks poised for a breakout year. He certainly has a much different attitude out there on the field—dancing, stunting and trash talking—but he’s bringing the play to back it up, too.
On Friday alone, he perfectly read a screen pass, making a “tackle” right near the line of scrimmage, and he went stride-for-stride with Victor Bolden on a deep ball that fell harmlessly incomplete.
Through three days of practice, I’ve only seen one or two complete passes against Okudah in coverage, and none were beyond 10 yards.
It’s early. Putting the pads on Monday and the intensity will increase a bit next week. But this is the sort of early blurb I was hoping to read. We’ll see if it continues but it does seem like the new staff is blowing him away, teaching him stuff “that would have really helped knowing last year.” Had core muscle surgery early in the offseason, an injury he battled all during his rookie year.
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The Rams TC reports every day for Stafford are glowing, full on hype machine. Matthew had one of his best deep ball passing seasons last year. Hope he wins MVP. Good dude.
Speaking of ex-Lions, did y’all catch Slay’s response to the Q “are you looking forward to playing your old team?”
Naw, they got a new coach, now it’s just another week on the schedule.
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Lions training camp notebook from July 30: Defensive back improvement
It’s very early, the roster is talent starved, Goff is a terrible deep ball passer, there is no reason to think the Lions won’t be competing with the Texans for the first overall pick. But I’ll tell you what, they aren’t going about their business like they’re about to lose 13-15 games. Campbell has a really good staff IMO. Might take a minute but this new regime might actually know something about football.
Especially impressed with DC Aaron Glenn. Despite some positional weakness at LB & S, I think they’ll be much improved on D. To be fair, 2019 & 2020 were statistically two of the three worst defensive seasons in the Lions 91 year history, so that may nit be saying much.
Good read. Exactly the kind of teacher-coach the young DBs need to develop.
__________
I thought Corn Elder would be the slot corner but from the first week reports it looks like Mike Ford has the inside track. He played well last year (PFF grade 80.8) and he’s getting a lot of buzz about how much he’s improved. Great athlete (9.73 RAS) who usually took the speedy WR when he got defensive snaps, looks like he’ll be more than a special teamer this year. Pretty rare to see UDFAs excel but like what I’m hearing about him.
___________
CB Jeff Okudah
At the risk of hyping him up too much, Okudah looks poised for a breakout year. He certainly has a much different attitude out there on the field—dancing, stunting and trash talking—but he’s bringing the play to back it up, too.
On Friday alone, he perfectly read a screen pass, making a “tackle” right near the line of scrimmage, and he went stride-for-stride with Victor Bolden on a deep ball that fell harmlessly incomplete.
Through three days of practice, I’ve only seen one or two complete passes against Okudah in coverage, and none were beyond 10 yards.
It’s early. Putting the pads on Monday and the intensity will increase a bit next week. But this is the sort of early blurb I was hoping to read. We’ll see if it continues but it does seem like the new staff is blowing him away, teaching him stuff “that would have really helped knowing last year.” Had core muscle surgery early in the offseason, an injury he battled all during his rookie year.
__________
The Rams TC reports every day for Stafford are glowing, full on hype machine. Matthew had one of his best deep ball passing seasons last year. Hope he wins MVP. Good dude.
Speaking of ex-Lions, did y’all catch Slay’s response to the Q “are you looking forward to playing your old team?”
Naw, they got a new coach, now it’s just another week on the schedule.
__________
Lions training camp notebook from July 30: Defensive back improvement
It’s very early, the roster is talent starved, Goff is a terrible deep ball passer, there is no reason to think the Lions won’t be competing with the Texans for the first overall pick. But I’ll tell you what, they aren’t going about their business like they’re about to lose 13-15 games. Campbell has a really good staff IMO. Might take a minute but this new regime might actually know something about football.
Especially impressed with DC Aaron Glenn. Despite some positional weakness at LB & S, I think they’ll be much improved on D. To be fair, 2019 & 2020 were statistically two of the three worst defensive seasons in the Lions 91 year history, so that may nit be saying much.
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Very cool:
Melissa Gonzalez, wife of David Blough, qualifies for Olympic semifinal
Blough help my FF team in 2019 when he threw a long TD to Golladay on his first completion in the NFL. Melissa could probably beat him in the 40.
Melissa Gonzalez, wife of David Blough, qualifies for Olympic semifinal
Blough help my FF team in 2019 when he threw a long TD to Golladay on his first completion in the NFL. Melissa could probably beat him in the 40.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne said:
I really don't understand the Goff hate. Goff is better than average QB who can sling the deep ball. When your coach loses confidence in you like happened to Goff, your game is going to suffer bigtime. The is a mid-tier team. Dan Orlovski believes Detroit has the best chance of any team to surprise people and thinks Goff is a good fit for their offense.. This is a 7 plus win team.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I want to see Goff play 6-8 games before making comments about his ability. The guy was a #1 overall so he has to have some talent. The win total this year should be pretty much the same be it Goff or Stafford at QB.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
well statistically he hasn't been very good on throws over 20 yards since Cooks left
he was around 30th best QB on deep balls last year, which is ungood
he was around 30th best QB on deep balls last year, which is ungood
Foosball God
Foos
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
nittanylion
Footballguy
Tyrell Williams, when fully healthy, is a quality field stretcher. I'll cautiously wager that they could have something there.
Tyrell is cheap, cheap, cheap.
Tyrell is cheap, cheap, cheap.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Pundits and experts are often wrong and there are a hundred reasons they are wrong about this team. Number 1 being that Fatty Patty is no longer around. There is more fantasy value on Detroit than any other team. Every player is undervalued. Hock is valued high, but will be top in the league. Swift and Williams will be a top 5 RB duo. Williams will be 1000 yard receiver. Amon-Ra will be a pass catching machine. Cephus will be a playable flex option.
On defense, the DL is loaded. The secondary has a ton a talent and Aaron Glen will take them to an elite level. LB group will be OK.
My view on Goff. He is a great QB. He lost his all-pro RB and his offense line went south. The league figured out McVay's offense and instead of changing, he threw Goff under the bus and proceeded to backup the bus and run over Goff again and again. Goff will flourish with Detroits OL and running game and will have a top 10 QB rating. Yardage and TD will be average, but he will be effective. Unlike what every expert thinks, Detroit will not be burning a high pick on a QB anytime soon.
MCDC has assembled a great staff. And it will show quickly. This is not a bad team and with it's stockpile of draft picks and a GM and HC which knows how to use them, the Lions are headed towards a Super Bowl in a 2-3 years.
matuski
Footballguy
Would love to see Detroit become a good franchise for the first time in my life.
Good luck with the above, if you get 2 of the 12 predictions right it would be a nice consolation.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Talent wise they’re a 4-5 win team for 2021.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Statistically, yes he's bottom 5 with the deep ball.
Good deep ball breakdown here. They have Goff ranked #30: https://brickwallblitz.com/2021/02/16/the-2020-21-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/
They do mention the 2018 season where he showed flashes of promise. I do remember watching that TNF game he had against the Vikes in 2018 and he was dropping dimes all over the field. He made every throw you can possibly make. So he can do it, but it's been all downhill since then.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I agree Goff could benefit from the change in scenery. Maybe it's another Ryan Tannehill situation.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Chiefs-Rams Week 11 (2018)
891 Yards Passing, 11 TDs
Been a minute but he balled out 2017-18. Was good as anyone in the league, top 5 both years.
He hasn’t been that guy for a long time.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Goff is only 26. There is no reason for someone to drop off that quickly. I'm thinking the cliche "change of scenery" might actually work in his case. It's not like he's some broken down old QB who you would expect this from.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
It's definitely perplexing. On the one hand, you have coaches like Gase that failed with every QB they ever had not named Peyton Manning. So a guy like Tannehill goes on to be extremely successful with a change of scenery. Perhaps Sam Darnold can do the same. On the other hand, McVay is a good coach. So if he gave up on Goff, it's really concerning. The Rams had good WR too. I am hoping Goff will have a Tannehill type of career resurgence with the change of scenery.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@ChrisBurkeNFL
First fight: Amon-Ra St. Brown vs. Ifeatu Melifonwu throwing some serious punches during a special teams rep.
Hey I’m all about harmony and can’t we all just get along but I also love hearing about intensity in Allen Park. Like, the good kind.
Both these guys are going to be good (not great) Lions.
First fight: Amon-Ra St. Brown vs. Ifeatu Melifonwu throwing some serious punches during a special teams rep.
Hey I’m all about harmony and can’t we all just get along but I also love hearing about intensity in Allen Park. Like, the good kind.
Both these guys are going to be good (not great) Lions.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
The Rams play in a stronger division and have one of the tougher schedules in 2021, roughly the same strength of schedule from 2020 (top 10). If they do add 2 wins, my guess is it's due to scheduling luck instead of Stafford vs. Goff. For example, they play @ IND in week 2 who may be without Wentz. Same for week 8 @ HOU if Watson is suspended or traded by then. Otherwise, I would tend to agree with @Da Guru that the Rams win total this year will likely be the same.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
You look at those stats and watch the highlights, it’s hard to tell which one goes on to become league MVP and which one is going to get jettisoned by their team.
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matuski
Footballguy
I was saying on the Rams (a good team), Stafford would be +2 wins versus Goff imo. So whatever they are projected to win, I would subtract 2 if Goff were still there.
On the Lions, I don't think it matters who the QB is. They are bad regardless and Mahomes would not change it.
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Ah I get your point. I also agree it doesn't matter who the QB is for the Lions. They couldn't win with Stafford. Maybe Peyton or Brady could add 2 wins on their own but those guys aren't available.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
@davebirkette
6h
Dan Campbell on the scuffle between Amon-Ra St. Brown and Iffy Melifonwu yesterday: "I was fired up, because they were competing. It was good to see both of them, two young bucks, go after it." ... Campbell called St. Brown "the sun god," referring to his name.
_____________________
I love our coach
FWIW, it lasted about 5 seconds. The coaches mandated they had to matchup against each other the rest of practice. There were no more flareups.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Just found out that Lion head coach Dan Campbell and Pistons head coach Dwane Casey are next door neighbors. Maybe Dan can borrow Cade Cunningham for a couple jump ball plays in the end zone?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I would just like again thank the team for not resigning Kenny Golladay. Not the right move for the team in its current status and I think he will prove that he was not worth the investment.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Seems pretty clear MCDC & Lynn view Swift in the Kamara role, Williams in the Ingram/Murray role. D’Andre might see 85-90 targets with all the fun parts of the playbook that inflate satellite backs YPC, with the 5th year veteran taking a beating while also catching 30-35 passes. From a long term perspective seems like a good move to extend Swift’s prime years.
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your daily dose of what did The Sun God do lately
They love this kid, he’s gonna soak up targets.
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Tons of early camp stories about how strong Jeff Okudah is looking. He and ARSB have a little competitive rivalry thing going, and he’s been the best DB on the field every day. Got a bit of bad dude attitude.
______________…
While there’s still little reason to think they’ll win many games, this team is developing an attitude. They’re gonna play with a lot of physicality and, win or lose, try to beat the crap out of the other team. Love it.
_______________
your daily dose of what did The Sun God do lately
They love this kid, he’s gonna soak up targets.
_______________
Tons of early camp stories about how strong Jeff Okudah is looking. He and ARSB have a little competitive rivalry thing going, and he’s been the best DB on the field every day. Got a bit of bad dude attitude.
______________…
While there’s still little reason to think they’ll win many games, this team is developing an attitude. They’re gonna play with a lot of physicality and, win or lose, try to beat the crap out of the other team. Love it.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Look bub, I don't know if you meant to post this in another team's thread or just stepped out of a time machine from 1957, but this is 2021 and we simply won't tolerate this level of optimism here.
I watched this team for 50 years, I understand the pessimistic viewpoint. But MCDC is very Bill Parcells-like and his coaching staff he assembled is outstanding. The Lions executed their best draft in history. They got 3 or 4 absolute steals and all 7 picks will be important part of their team. Even their 7th pick Jefferson is solidly their #3 RB behind two studs.
This team is full of some talented players who were really misused and underperformed under the completely incompetent leadership of Patricia. Football is a complex equation and injuries can derail any team. But this team will be very competitive this year, bit is obviously not Super Bowl ready, but with the massive draft capitol they have and a GM who knows how to execute a draft, I have no doubt this team will be winning playoff games in the next 2 to 3 years.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Hey, I hope you're right, but you'll excuse me if I'm not buying non-refundable tickets to the 2024 Super Bowl just yet.
I wasn't thrilled with the Campbell hire (would have preferred Bienenmy) and I'm not sure about Lynn either, but then, back in 2014 I wanted Whisenhunt over Caldwell, so what do I know? I'm willing to give Campbell a chance; the analogy I was thinking of was Tomlin, a CEO-type coach who sets the tone, builds a winning culture and lets his assistants handle the Xs and Os (though to be fair, he hasn't had a great track record with OCs either).
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
One of my all-time favorite expressions is "Dopo un papa grasso, un papa magro" (After a fat pope, a thin pope.) It's a good reminder to shake things up periodically so you don't get in a rut (for example, going to work at a startup after you've spent the past few years at a big company, or dating someone who's more even-keeled if you just got out of a high-drama relationship)
It just occurred to me that, in the Lions case, that is literally what they did.
It just occurred to me that, in the Lions case, that is literally what they did.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
With zero drama, which isn’t usually the case when you parting with the franchise QB.
I listen to a fair number of podcasts/YT shows which feature local beat writers. The guys who have been around for years are a bit cagey answering difficult Qs, which makes sense. It takes time to build up relationships and trust, pretty tough to expect that to not blow up in years your face if you start trashing guys with ESPN style hot takes.
When you’re listening to these guys, you have to take note what they don’t say, what they don’t address directly, the weak backhanded compliments.
Its pretty clear the offense is way behind the defense at the moment. Goff is not establishing any kind of rapport with his vertical receivers. Raymond, ARSB, Hock, Swift & Williams are all having a good camp. Those are all short to intermediate pas catchers. We are not going to push the ball down the field. No more hole shots fired past the CB, Goff is not taking deep shots when he’s got the open receiver 7 yards downfield. He’s going to play exactly the way Lynn wants him to: “We’ll take what the defense gives to you.” It’s a passive approach and there will be very few splash plays in the near term.
It’s a different kind of QB now. Laid back instead of showing some moxie, check downs instead of taking shots. Not saying he’s going to fail, but as fans we need to realize that he’s merely a competent QB. He’s not gonna make your jaw drop like #9 could.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I always liked James Washington as a player and think he has the right “workman-like” mentality to be a good fit here in Detroit. If murmurs of him wanting a trade are true I wouldn’t mind Detroit trying to swing a deal for later round pick if Pitt is willing to listen.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
For a 7th, sure. He is in the last year of his deal so that's good in that there is no real commitment. It's also bad that if he does pop this year, we then have to figure out if we want to resign him and how much to spend. My biggest issue with Washington is his profile is one I don't generally care for: deep threat WR who isn't tall, fast or explosive. The other numbers around him coming out college were good but after 3 years in the NFL, I just get the impression his game isn't translating.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Not sure if Mims is really available or if that's just beat writer speculation but I would prefer a late round flyer on him than Washington. He has a lower floor but at least there is an unknown upside since he hasn't really had a healthy full season yet and he's got a couple more years on his rookie deal.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
And you may be right on the limitations, however he seems like he has performed pretty efficiently in Pitt. I wouldn’t worry about him blowing up, but he may a decent bargain if he does perform adequately. And who knows, maybe he has just been over-shadowed by the depth in Pitt. He may not be tall but he good arm length and tracks the ball well.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I like where your head is at and would prefer Mims to Washington as well. Problem is he cost more. Inquiries should be made on both to see what the teams are expecting in return.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I’ve heard a lot of sit down interviews & always thought he was an introspective, thoughtful man. Very smart - GA Tech isn’t exactly a good fit for slackers - humble, high integrity, good dude. Other worldly gifted but he’s a lot more than that.Calvin in HOF.
Strange that after playing his whole career in Detroit last night was the first time I really ever heard Calvin speak
