Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I agree, but he never really talked much as a player. All of his interviews before or after games were just very quick responses. I am sure that is the way he wanted it to be though,
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2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 X-Season in the books. Time for final cuts. (17 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I always saw it as he played football as a career, but he never saw himself as a football player. He didn't want to be famous. He just was a guy who found something he was really good at that was very profitable and he worked hard to be his best in it. However, like most working people, Calvin was happy to retire once he was financially stable and felt he was tapped out at his job.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Even with the 17th game added, it's going to be a while before anyone passes Calvin's 1,964.
My favorite pre-season Lions bet is for Alim McNeill to win Defensive Rookie of the Year at +10000. Coaches are doing backflips over what he is doing in camp and saying he is far better than they even thought he would be.. I put $500 down on that.
Amon-Ra would be interesting for OROY, but he does not even make the list yet. I would like to see him come on for +15000. He may be top 3 in receptions for rookies, but probably not enough to win.
MCDC for coach of the year at +3800, but Lions would need to make the playoffs. That chance nose-dived when Rodgers came back.
Amon-Ra would be interesting for OROY, but he does not even make the list yet. I would like to see him come on for +15000. He may be top 3 in receptions for rookies, but probably not enough to win.
MCDC for coach of the year at +3800, but Lions would need to make the playoffs. That chance nose-dived when Rodgers came back.
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Tornacl
Footballguy
This is exactly why they should try to acquire him. If they can get him for a 7th and get decent production out of him, that is great value. If he does better than that and plays himself out of their price range, they can turn that 7th round pick into a higher-round compensatory pick, say a 4th rounder.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That's a good point though it would have to also assume we we don't sign a FA of "equal value".
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Tanner9919
Footballguy
lions. the Edsel of the NFL Ford family has no clue, never had a clue. worst franchise in the NFL and its not close.as in, worst ownership ever.
great fans, but I'm gosh darn sick of seeing Thanksgiving games with this lousy stinkin team every year. just pull a random team to play in the NFC slot every turkey , we'll all be happier than having to see this slurry of crap they spew out every year. they're just soo pathetic. enough already. stop showing these mutts.please make it stop.
I'm a Giants fan, Mets fan, lived in Wi in the 70s so I root for the Packers, seen my fill of Whitehurst, Joe Pisarcik miracle of the meadowlands type of ineptitude, but the freakin lions take it to a whole new level. at least Cleveland is on the upswing, Lions always bogged in the mire. it's pathetic. it's not fair to fans of the NFL to have to watch this damn lousy team. Dan @#$@#%$ Campbell as HC..you can't wait till SB ends to hire Leftwhich?! Dan Campbell? really? Lefty orchestrated that WHOLE postseason and SB win. but they also hired wayne fontes. Matt patricia. I mean this list speaks for itself.Bevell the interim guy.
19Bobby Ross
20Gary Moeller
21Marty Mornhinweg
22Steve Mariucci
23Dick Jauron
24Rod Marinelli
25Jim Schwartz†
26Jim Caldwell
27Matt Patricia
28Darrell Bevell–
29Robert Prince
30Dan Campbell2021–present
a who's who of who's not.
great fans, but I'm gosh darn sick of seeing Thanksgiving games with this lousy stinkin team every year. just pull a random team to play in the NFC slot every turkey , we'll all be happier than having to see this slurry of crap they spew out every year. they're just soo pathetic. enough already. stop showing these mutts.please make it stop.
I'm a Giants fan, Mets fan, lived in Wi in the 70s so I root for the Packers, seen my fill of Whitehurst, Joe Pisarcik miracle of the meadowlands type of ineptitude, but the freakin lions take it to a whole new level. at least Cleveland is on the upswing, Lions always bogged in the mire. it's pathetic. it's not fair to fans of the NFL to have to watch this damn lousy team. Dan @#$@#%$ Campbell as HC..you can't wait till SB ends to hire Leftwhich?! Dan Campbell? really? Lefty orchestrated that WHOLE postseason and SB win. but they also hired wayne fontes. Matt patricia. I mean this list speaks for itself.Bevell the interim guy.
19Bobby Ross
20Gary Moeller
21Marty Mornhinweg
22Steve Mariucci
23Dick Jauron
24Rod Marinelli
25Jim Schwartz†
26Jim Caldwell
27Matt Patricia
28Darrell Bevell–
29Robert Prince
30Dan Campbell2021–present
a who's who of who's not.
The Captain
Footballguy
You OK bro? (serenitynow)Tanner9919 said:
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Lions. Ooofff.
SOL
SOL
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Bills scrubs beat the Lions scrubs. Somehow not surprising.
He is a rookie who plays the slot. Last season NFL QB targeted their slot WR over 42 percent of the time. He is 'only' playing the most targeted position.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
WAS WR Kelvin Harmon cut, wouldn’t mind giving him a look.
You are right about the Ford's ownership the last 60 years. But you are wrong about thinking Sheila Ford Hamp is going to continue that terrible tradition. Dan Campbell will be a great coach. And the Lions weren't usually good, but watching players like Barry Sanders, Billy Simms, and Megatron wasn't bad Turkey day football.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Muhlbach released
Bummer. That’s a tough call, 17 years with the club, 260 games played - 37th in NFL history, and 2nd to Jason Hanson in club history. SFH even put out a statement today regarding his release. Can’t imagine that’s happened very often often for career special teamers. ETA: happened on his 40th birthday, Josh Fox got him a rocking chair. Business end sucks sometimes.
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The Lions fired their Head Trainer. Didn’t get into specifics (“communication issues”) but he had 15 years of Patriot stench on him.
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I didn’t even know who the CB & WR were who got hurt in the 2am car crash Sunday night/Monday a.m. Lions immediately cut the CB - driving the wrong way on I-75 while intoxicated. Facing four charges. The WR teammate who got hurt is doing better. Unreal.
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D’Andre was back at practice but mostly running on the side. Not sure they’ll be anxious to get him up to speed for the Steelers game. Is Game 2 now the dress rehearsal?
Bummer. That’s a tough call, 17 years with the club, 260 games played - 37th in NFL history, and 2nd to Jason Hanson in club history. SFH even put out a statement today regarding his release. Can’t imagine that’s happened very often often for career special teamers. ETA: happened on his 40th birthday, Josh Fox got him a rocking chair. Business end sucks sometimes.
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The Lions fired their Head Trainer. Didn’t get into specifics (“communication issues”) but he had 15 years of Patriot stench on him.
_____________
I didn’t even know who the CB & WR were who got hurt in the 2am car crash Sunday night/Monday a.m. Lions immediately cut the CB - driving the wrong way on I-75 while intoxicated. Facing four charges. The WR teammate who got hurt is doing better. Unreal.
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D’Andre was back at practice but mostly running on the side. Not sure they’ll be anxious to get him up to speed for the Steelers game. Is Game 2 now the dress rehearsal?
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Today was Muhl's 40th birthday too! I am guessing he knew this was likely coming. Also, I think it was a TE and not a WR injured in the crash. I believe he was also released. The CB who was driving was so drunk he didn't even know what State he was in. Really fortunate everyone involved survived.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Swift appeared to get a full load at practice Thursday with no clear snap limit. Sounds like they’re inclined to keep him out of preseason games. Brockers, Goff, Hockenson, & Ragnow will probably also sit Saturday night against the Steelers.
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These are not encouraging notes on Thursday’s practice - last day of full pads/full contact this week - and it’s been a recurring theme for the offense since TC opened. It’s rare to hear anything positive other than the same 3 or 4 bright spots: Hock & ARSB are Goff’s favorite targets, and D’Andre & Jamaal are hard to cover coming out of the backfield. There’s been no indication we’ll see many splash plays or be able to complete deep balls.
The injury list dropped from around 12 players to a handful this week. They have avoided any major injuries. Onwurzurike (back) is healthy again after seeing a specialist and he’s wreaking havoc, he should be in the D-Lind rotation. Iffy is a project this year, Barnes is strictly Special Teams rn, Jefferson is buried on the depth chart. Sewell, McNeil & ARSB Sewell should all see starters snaps once the regular season begins.
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Tavai is on the bubble to make the 53 man. Even after dropping from 270 to 244, he still has no agility to his game, his lateral movement is pathetic and looked as lost as ever last week (blew a coverage assignment on the Devin Singletary TD.) I wish they would pull the plug, going into year 3 and it’s obvious he is never going to develop.
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KickerWatch update: Randy Bullock was 3-for-5 today with misses from 47 and a bad miss from 40. Zane Gonzalez was 4-for-4, with his longest make from 49 yards.
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On releasing Muhlbach on his birthday, Campbell said there's no way to sugar coat it, "I'm an #######," that's my fault and my mistake.
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Alumni:
_______________
These are not encouraging notes on Thursday’s practice - last day of full pads/full contact this week - and it’s been a recurring theme for the offense since TC opened. It’s rare to hear anything positive other than the same 3 or 4 bright spots: Hock & ARSB are Goff’s favorite targets, and D’Andre & Jamaal are hard to cover coming out of the backfield. There’s been no indication we’ll see many splash plays or be able to complete deep balls.
The injury list dropped from around 12 players to a handful this week. They have avoided any major injuries. Onwurzurike (back) is healthy again after seeing a specialist and he’s wreaking havoc, he should be in the D-Lind rotation. Iffy is a project this year, Barnes is strictly Special Teams rn, Jefferson is buried on the depth chart. Sewell, McNeil & ARSB Sewell should all see starters snaps once the regular season begins.
_______________
Tavai is on the bubble to make the 53 man. Even after dropping from 270 to 244, he still has no agility to his game, his lateral movement is pathetic and looked as lost as ever last week (blew a coverage assignment on the Devin Singletary TD.) I wish they would pull the plug, going into year 3 and it’s obvious he is never going to develop.
_______________
KickerWatch update: Randy Bullock was 3-for-5 today with misses from 47 and a bad miss from 40. Zane Gonzalez was 4-for-4, with his longest make from 49 yards.
_______________
On releasing Muhlbach on his birthday, Campbell said there's no way to sugar coat it, "I'm an #######," that's my fault and my mistake.
_______________
Alumni:
- Barry Sanders tested positive for Covid but is asymptomatic. Vaccinated, always wears a mask.
- Leonard Thompson, former Detroit Lions wide receiver 1975-86, died at age 69. Thompson's 35 touchdown catches have him fourth on the franchise's all-time leaderboard. His 175 games played with the team put him 10th. #39 Good deep threat. Two 9-7 teams in the early 80s were the only winning teams he played on - peak WCF/Russ Thomas era.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Honest question, was that the worst 2nd round pick by any team in the last 5 years of the NFL draft?
Tough to say, but you wouldn't even have to leave Detroit to find competition.... Teez Tabor was pretty awful. Tested slow at the combine, tested slower at pro day, tested even slower in private workouts. Had he kept trying he might have started losing foot races to Patricia himself. There was definitely a theme in Quinntricia picks on defense, speed was viewed as detrimental.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Teez had a huge red flag bc of his speed. But he was def a Day 2 pick regardless, just maybe not as high as Quintricia took him. Jahlani was projected to be a mid Day 3 pick. They didn’t have highlights of his to play after the pick, nobody thought he was a 2nd rounder.
Ryan Broyles, Titus Young and Mikel Leshoure were all second round busts in the early 2010s who never got another shot after flaming out in Motown.
Any Team last 5? Maybe Malik McDowell of MSU. But that was all due to character issues (ATV accident, DUI, some other criminal offense that sent hi, to prison for 11 months.) Think the Browns signed him earlier this year, I’m sure he’s considered talented.
Tabor has bounced around. Still hasn’t made an impact but you could see the logic of a tough, physical press corner to take on X WR guys like Adams and Thielen. Didn’t work out but it was plausible.
Tavai has never made any sense. It’s sad watching him flail around out there. Constantly out of position and simply unable to move fast enough to be effective either as a coverage LB or a run stuffer. Nice kid, good family, works his butt off, will literally do anything to help the team, but he just has no business being in the league.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
BobbyLayne said:
Tavai would be a great asset if he was just a mediocre player. The sad truth is not sure he could make a CFL team. Good person, team player, hard worker, hustles all the time, but is a terrible LB.
As a 5th or 6th rounder and maybe a special team only type at best. But Tavai can`t start or backup in the NFL as a LB.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Good news:
- Derrick Barnes looks like he is going to be a player. He is all over the field making plays breaking up passes, tackling guys immediately and stopping any YAC on short passes and putting pressure on the passer as a blitzer.
- UDFA AJ Parker looks like he's going to have a role in the backfield right away. He is getting run with the first team D and looks like he belongs.
Bad news:
- Okudah still looks rough. He got absolutely roasted by Diontae Johnson for a long gain where Okudah wasn't within 10 yards of him. On a catch and run, the Najee Harris juked him so bad that Okudah collapsed to the ground. I like Najee but he's not LeSean McCoy and shouldn't be able to break a DBs ankles like that.
- Sewell is struggling. PFF had him as the lowest graded player on the Lions first team offense (and the 1st team offense was missing half of their starters).
- Derrick Barnes looks like he is going to be a player. He is all over the field making plays breaking up passes, tackling guys immediately and stopping any YAC on short passes and putting pressure on the passer as a blitzer.
- UDFA AJ Parker looks like he's going to have a role in the backfield right away. He is getting run with the first team D and looks like he belongs.
Bad news:
- Okudah still looks rough. He got absolutely roasted by Diontae Johnson for a long gain where Okudah wasn't within 10 yards of him. On a catch and run, the Najee Harris juked him so bad that Okudah collapsed to the ground. I like Najee but he's not LeSean McCoy and shouldn't be able to break a DBs ankles like that.
- Sewell is struggling. PFF had him as the lowest graded player on the Lions first team offense (and the 1st team offense was missing half of their starters).
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Barnes looks to be a steal if he can keep it up. Nice to finally see a fast LB after Quinn drafted lumbering LBs.
It is going to take Sewell some time. Still puzzling that they have not let him play his natural position LT. No team drafts a RT that high.
Still have concerns Lions will regret passing on Justin Fields.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Any thoughts by homers which WR might have the most receptions?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah Sewell is really young and inexperienced so I imagine it's going to take awhile to get up to speed. Plus there is the new position. I assume the Lions don't want to move Decker because he's really good at LT. Let Sewell play RT for 2-3 years and then shift over to LT when Decker's contract is up. Probably easier to switch Sewell who has a few years of HS and college LT experience vs Decker who has had such a lengthy college and pro career there. Plus there could be concern from a personality/locker room position if you ask the established NFL vet with the big contract to switch positions for a 20 year old.
Amon Ra is the most likely.
That said Williams should be rostered in normal sized leagues also. Perriman will not be a consistent producer and may not even start. Could even be on the bubble.
Kalif Raymond and Quintez Cephus will likely see targets also and could step up into a bigger role.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Tyrell and ARSB are the best bets. Tyrell will be outside so he has a chance at more yards but just given how Goff plays, I think it could be ARSB with lots of catches but don't expect much in the way of yardage. A classic PPR slot type guy if everything breaks right.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BoltBacker said:
Just curious, why would you want to know? Just wrapping up a deep dive reconnaissance and you’ve come to the 32nd best WR room in the NFL? If it’s Dynasty or Keeper, the alpha isn’t on the roster.
Goff has no ability to push the ball downfield. Last year he had 6 passing plays over 35 yards and only 2 of those were deep balls to WRs. Week 4 he threw a 56 yard TD bomb to Robert woods. Week 5 he threw a 40 yard TD to Josh Reynolds. End of story. His next deep ball completion that went for more than 35 yards was week 16 on a wheel route to running back cam Akers. Week 17 he had a 39 yard deep pass to tight end Higbee.
Forget about comparing that to a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes high teens/low 20s number of splash plays over 35 yards. Freaking dead arm Philip Rivers had 15 pass plays over 35 yards last year. We’ve matched Mr. short n intermediate with two boundary receivers who have a very respectable average depth of target and YPC for their careers. Perryman and Williams are 9 route threats. They’re playing with a QB who can’t throw a 9 ball. There’s a reason why every single day of OTA’s and training camp we hear of Goff either struggling or having a good connection with Hockenson or Swift or Jamaal Williams or Amon-Ra. I have yet to find an article praising either Perriman or Williams for the connection they are building with Goff or a simply noting they had a great day of practice.
ARSB to answer your question. In the last 20 years there have been 4 wide receivers taken on Day 3 and finished top 60 WR or better. One of those was Tyreek Hill, which obviously was a fluky thing because of character concerns. Number 4 on that list is Kekee Coutee I forget the other two but it wasn’t anything special. Probably looking at a 700 yard season, less than 10 YPC, and less than a handful of TDs.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m laughing at the Lions WRs, not your analysis which is spot on. I do have some hopes of ARSB as a viable long term Jamison Crowder type but that’s asking a lot.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm the last guy that likes Goff. Sure, he's overpaid but that's not his fault. He just signed a contract offer.
They still probably should have drafted Fields, but they didn't and Goff is the ripe old age of 26.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
If we forget to draft a Lion, it won't be the straw that costs us a championship. These are not the Droids you’re looking for.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
And yet I saw plenty of FF teams go deep into the playoffs starting the RB from a 1-15 Jags team.
I like deeper leagues than most.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
For sure.Swift and Hock might end up being great values at their positions. However, I get his point. Taking late round flyers on terrible offenses isn't a smart play in the aggregate.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Hey buddy my bad - suspect middle age memory in that last post, Keke Coutee never broke out.
2010-2020 174 Day 3 WRs. 4 hits (Top 36 ay any point in their careers):
- Mike Williams (Bucs) 2010
- Antonio Brown 2010
- Stefon Diggs 2015
- Tyreek Hill 2016
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I did some simple research earlier this summer where I looked at the projected offensive TDs for each team on a consensus basis. Detroit was dead last - projected to have about 35T D’s in 17 games. For context, the Jets were worst last year with 25. Most projections skew toward the middle, neither too high or too low. It’s possible Detroit will be an outlier and score less than 30 TDs.
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Detroit will not be in the bottom 10 for scoring. Detroit is the most underrated team in the league. The experts and their preseason rankings are crap. Detroit will be surprisingly mediocre this year. The Bears will be a bigger train wreck than the Lions. Amon Ra and Williams will be two of the best late round values in the draft.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It’s a skeleton crew. 4-5 wins is the expectation.
Youre welcome to be pollyanna if you wish but there is not enough talent on the roster to be competitive.
Youre welcome to be pollyanna if you wish but there is not enough talent on the roster to be competitive.
But there is. Our OL, RB duo and TE group are top 10. Goff is somewhere in the 12 to 20 range. Our WR are note that bad. Amon Ra will be drawing comparisons to Golden Tate by week 2, Williams will catch 1000 yards.
Our defensive front is going to be feared. Romeo will be towards the top in sacks. Amil McNeill will be in the talk for defensive rookie of the year. Brookers is a stud.. The LB will struggle in coverage, but I see Barnes stepping up. The secondary is young will make mistakes but will improve as the season goes. The defense will be no where near the crap show it was last season.
I see all this analysis which has nothing good to say about Detroit, but they are dead wrong. Our coaching staff is not the worst in the league. We have some awesome position coaches and MCDC has buy-in from the whole team. Goff is no where near the worst QB in the league as many suggest. Swift not even being mentioned in the top 30 is a joke. Matt Pratrica made this team and players look a lot worse than they are. This team has decent talent.
I wish there was lots of money to be made off of this underestimation, but being mediocre isn't really profitable. I made good money off the Phoenix Suns and hopefully will make a nice chunk of change off the SF Giants. But I do have McNeill at 100 to 1 for DROY and Romeo at 55 to 1 to leas the league in sacks if either of those hit I will be very happy.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Previous article was based on Justin Rogers’ Detroit News article (behind paywall) and his source was Dan Campbell.
Detroit Lions 53-man Roster Projection
Kyle Meinke of MLive has him making the team, but timeline...this was before the MCDC interview. Both are solid beat reporters, I’m just passing it along.
CB Corn Elder projected to be cut and WR Tom Kennedy are the only real surprises for me. Plus he’s saying Randy Bullock over Zane Gonzales. That’s bonkers bc Gonzo has outplayed him all TC and Bullock hasn’t hit a 50 yarder in drills or a game all summer.
Detroit Lions 53-man Roster Projection
Kyle Meinke of MLive has him making the team, but timeline...this was before the MCDC interview. Both are solid beat reporters, I’m just passing it along.
CB Corn Elder projected to be cut and WR Tom Kennedy are the only real surprises for me. Plus he’s saying Randy Bullock over Zane Gonzales. That’s bonkers bc Gonzo has outplayed him all TC and Bullock hasn’t hit a 50 yarder in drills or a game all summer.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Look Jon, I’m a huge supporter. Have been my whole life. I have no inclination to debate with you about their ineptitude. However...
- Goff has been a QB20-25 the last two years with Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods, one of the most consistent duos of the last 4 years. You’re straining credibility here.
- Amin-Ra has several nice qualities and I love the kid. He’s not a YAC king. No one will be comparing him to Golden Tate this year or any other. There are some nice comps out there, kid does a lot of things well. Twitch and making folks whiff on tackles are not who he is, but he has potential to be a solid building black and complimentary player.
- They should be better on defense. The last two seasons were statistically the 2 worst Lions defense in their 91 year history so there’s really nowhere to go nut up.
- I’m not a gambler and I can’t even comprehend what those + bets mean. But I’m told +2800 to win the division is not something one sees very often. Vegas has them at 4.7 wins. Only the Texans wins at 4.5 over/under. Haven’t you posted the Lions will win like 7 games? I presume you’ll be simmering in Mykonos next year.
I got some for the Lions winning the division at +3500. I liked that better when Rogers was saying he was not playing for the Pack.
