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***2025 Oakmont US Open Thread*** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter BassNBrew
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
fantastic! wow
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
64’5”
insane
insane
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
That was going 5’ past if it doesn’t go in. Unbelievable.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
5 over thru 6, 3 under over last 12 in just ridiculous conditions. What a ballsy/gutsy round. The drive on 17 and putt on 18 go straight into the legends file.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
I haven’t looked at any stats - but in the blind I bet Spaun just set the USO record for feet of putts made by a champion in a final round.
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Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
One of the reasons I disliked this course is because they made it artificially hard. It's already a tough course in its own right. I think any course could grow the rough out to 5" and shave the greens down to marble.
They just said he made 136 feet of putts in the last 7 holes.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Agree. Tricked it up too much and introduced too much randomness.
Spaun's heroics salvaged the tournament, for me at least.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Great angle for the final putt. Had no clue it broke anywhere near that much from the live broadcast.
identikit
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
It would have been the same for me if he needed the putt to win. Knowing he just needed a 2-putt, I put his chances at around 80% to get it done. Would have been less if he hadn't just seen the same putt right before he took his.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Maybe he doesn't win anyway, but man it seems like Burns got a REALLY bad break with that ruling on the standing water. It seemed pretty clear with every practice swing (and then the actual shot) that that area was absolutely soaked.
And then someone posted a video walking around where he allegedly hit from and there was tons of visible water coming up with each step.
Always thought the whole "water has to come up around your feet" made no sense. Someone who weighs more is going to displace more water (and then be more likely to get a free drop), right?
Maybe the ruling was right at the time. I don think they ever gave us a close up of anyone's feet when they were deciding. But it certainly looked wrong based on the way water flew up on the shot.
That being said, he let one "Bad" (maybe) ruling cost him like 4 shots over the next 3 holes. Gotta get over it and keep your cool if you're gonna win the big one.
And then someone posted a video walking around where he allegedly hit from and there was tons of visible water coming up with each step.
Always thought the whole "water has to come up around your feet" made no sense. Someone who weighs more is going to displace more water (and then be more likely to get a free drop), right?
Maybe the ruling was right at the time. I don think they ever gave us a close up of anyone's feet when they were deciding. But it certainly looked wrong based on the way water flew up on the shot.
That being said, he let one "Bad" (maybe) ruling cost him like 4 shots over the next 3 holes. Gotta get over it and keep your cool if you're gonna win the big one.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I had written Spaun off after the 5th. Actually, I had probably written him off before the round started. He was - I think - 6 shots back after the 5th hole?
Good for him. His entire life just changed.
Redwes25
Footballguy
There needs to be visible water. Two officials both agreed that wasn't satisfied. Get it is a tough break with the lie but if both officials agree and they both know the rules much better then I do then think it was right ruling.
No idea when that video was taken but it continued to rain so not sure if that is representative.
shadrap
Footballguy
I play golf with JJ's dad once a week in AZ during the winter months. His handi is about a 5. Very nice guy.
Starting at about the 3:12 mark is a good interview with John Spaun.
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Starting at about the 3:12 mark is a good interview with John Spaun.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Seems like a decent fella, just like JJ does.I play golf with JJ's dad once a week in AZ during the winter months. His handi is about a 5. Very nice guy.
Starting at about the 3:12 mark is a good interview with John Spaun.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
I play golf with JJ's dad once a week in AZ during the winter months. His handi is about a 5. Very nice guy.
Starting at about the 3:12 mark is a good interview with John Spaun.
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That's really cool! Great video....had no idea he was a skateboarder.
I hope NFLX features him on Full Swing (if they haven't already, I'm behind on Season 3).
General Malaise
Footballguy
In a fantasy golf league with about 50 people, couple of FBGs are in there. I'm having a lousy season overall and gave up all hope on the US Open before Saturday even ended. Was at my son's college graduation yesterday all day and didn't tune in at all, so missed all the drama.
Checked the fantasy team late last night. We finished 2nd, headlined by Victor Hovland +2, Cam Young +3, Ben Griffin and Sam Stevens making the cut. That was good for 2nd....that's insanity!
Only one person had Spaun - the winner, obviously but man, what a crazy US Open.
Checked the fantasy team late last night. We finished 2nd, headlined by Victor Hovland +2, Cam Young +3, Ben Griffin and Sam Stevens making the cut. That was good for 2nd....that's insanity!
Only one person had Spaun - the winner, obviously but man, what a crazy US Open.
gump
Footballguy
Kyle Porter
@KylePorterNS
JJ Spaun said he started today going to CVS at 3 a.m. because his daughter was throwing up. Ended it winning the U.S. Open on Father’s Day. Maybe the most dad life Sunday of all time.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Spaun holed 18-of-19 putts inside 20 feet yesterday
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
That's a crazy number inside of 10 foot, much less 20
encaitar
Footballguy
The rule they were citing said there needed to be water coming up around your feet when you take a stance, but that's only half of the standing water ruling. If the ball is sitting in visible water then it can also be called a standing water rule. I could see how wet it was where his ball was sitting on tv. To say that wasn't visible standing water? OK, we're gonna have to disagree because my stance won't change on that.
The reality is there is no way his shot wasn't affected by that water and at that moment, out of the fairway, it's BS. Whether the rules officials "made the right call" or not, the tourney made the wrong call by not giving everyone lift, clean, and place on balls in the fairway after that downpour anyway.
I will forever call BS as long as there are rules that allow a shot in the fairway to be punished. Until the tour goes to preferred lies in the fairway, they'll forever be in the wrong and I'll die on that hill. You hit the fairway, you should get rewarded, not punished. You shouldn't get ****ed over because the grounds crew is terrible or because someone else hit that same spot in the fairway 20 minutes before you, or in this case, because god deciced to take a piss on the spot your ball ended up. Complete ********. You miss the fairway, however, deal with what you get.
gump
Footballguy
Once 1 golfer tees off while playing it ‘down’, you can’t flip to lift, clean, and place. That happens quite a bit at all levels.
But typically everyone is very liberal with standing water drops at that point too.
encaitar
Footballguy
I get that. It sucks. Really weird that those officials were being such hard asses at that point. Faxon called it a mistake on air. Adam Scott said afterwards it was the wrong call. Obviously we know what Burns thought.
I still fall back on the tours should move to preferred lies in the fairway. Even on the greatest of days, you can get a mud ball in the fairway. That's BS. You can still end up in a divot. You can end up in an area with little grass coverage due to poor upkeep.(Not as likely on tour) That's BS. Golf is about hitting great shots. The more great shots you hit, then greater chance you have to win. The fact that you can hit a great shot(in the fairway) and still be punished for it is a terrible concept IMO.
Golf has made rule changes like this before. The embedded golf ball rule was changed in 2019 to include any general area outside of penalty or bunker areas. Before 2019 players only got relief from the fairways on embedded balls. The tour finally realized it was a stupid rule that went against the concept of fair play and changed it. They should do the same for preferred lies in the fairway IMO.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I just finished Tom Doaks book, and there's a lot of interesting points he makes on playing as it lies being the original spirit of golf and how American fairways have come to be so manicured, with the other expectation of a perfect lie because you hit the fairway...vs the original courses where theres so much undulation and the fairways was really just grass that was a bit easier but still had challenges of its own.
It has shifted my mentality to one of "you can only have great shots following tough spots really" and rolling with stuff.
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UncleZen
Footballguy
I feel like they should have stopped play for the day after the 1st stop for rain. It completely changed most of their gameplay at point and was just sloppy and bad. I am happy for JJ but Burns got screwed. It was a hard course that he was navigating better than everyone and the weather changed the outcome.
encaitar
Footballguy
That may be what golf was, but it sure isn't what it is now.
American Football is nearly unrecognizable from the sport it was invented to be. Heck, baseball changed rules to make things more fair(strike zone reveiw etc.) They're much more aggressive about protecting the spirit of the game than golf has ever been.
Who knows what golf would've been 200 years ago if they'd had modern turf equipment and knowledge? This could very well be exactly what the first golfers dreamed it would be.
gump
Footballguy
This is a big topic in high-level Jr Golf (and I agree that mudballs and divots could be viewed separately)....but learning to play out of a variety of lies and conditions is considered an important part of learning the game. It's foundational and won't drastically change ever, IMO. How does the ball react, how do different clubs and swings then affect the ball, how do I need to attack the ball, what's the 'smart' play...etc.
Euros clearly learn how to play in a variety of conditions and blue collar courses. For Seve, etc it was a difference maker. But also Tiger...Earl surely grinded him through every lie imaginable on their SD 'muni'. Even Country Clubs brats like Speith and JT have elevated themselves with their creativity. Great hands are a part of it, but also teaching and practice.
Euros clearly learn how to play in a variety of conditions and blue collar courses. For Seve, etc it was a difference maker. But also Tiger...Earl surely grinded him through every lie imaginable on their SD 'muni'. Even Country Clubs brats like Speith and JT have elevated themselves with their creativity. Great hands are a part of it, but also teaching and practice.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Agree. That is the essence of golf. You play it where it lies.
Anyone that fluffs up their ball or moves it out of a divot has a score that is not really indicative of their skill level.
So when I play with a foursome or whatever and a guy tells me he shot an 84 but half his shots he moved the ball for a better lie? That score is BS.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Just to clarify - that may be true In the U.S.
My point was, upon reflecting on the book and some of the truths therein, and comparing it to the pros and the guys I watch on YouTube, I think it rings pretty true certainly in the U.K., and moreso in the U.S. than we'd think. I've seen BDC play off parking lots, cracked dry ground on a fairway thats a little burnt out, a fairway divot, etc...at the end of the day, luck evens out for everyone over time.
I don't think you "deserve" a great lie just because it's in the fairway. And, quite frankly, manicuring every fairway to make it so makes golf exceptionally expensive and cuts margins drastically. A little more variety there would be good for the game overall IMO.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Maybe I am old school but agree with this. I have played out of a lot of divots or mud on my ball in the fairway. Just because you are in fairway doesn’t mean you are required to have a perfect lie.
Look I am not a rules expert but there were two on the course with same ruling. Hell Spaun got screwed on 2 and while different facts he hit a near perfect shot and he ends up 50 yards away. Golf is about dealing with stuff like that.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
First a perfect lie doesn't mean flat and level, it means grass under your ball and no mud on it. Spaun didn't get screwed on 2, he got unlucky by hitting the flag which happens all the time. What shouldn't happen is that after a long rain delay you go back onto a course with sub par conditions just because the tour doesn't want to miss their TV window on a Sunday.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Either one of those are bad luck. How you deal with it is part of golf.
TLEF316
Footballguy
For me......"mud ball" is just a crappy break. My home course has poor drainage areas in the fairway where you can end up in a soggy area with mud on your ball 3 days after the last rain storm. I mean....it sucks....but its pretty much the same all time, so you know what you're getting yourself into.
Being forced to hit out of a fairway divot is total BS. When I'm playing for fun (or in a match-play style tournament where my opponent and I agree to it before we tee off) I'm moving it 6 inches and hitting from a clean lie.
Golf is too hard as it is and we're already at a disadvantage to the pros due to lack of galleries (nothing more frustrating that not being able to find a ball that you 100% know is in play and would be found in 5 seconds if there were people watching)
But of course....if you give pros the ability to move out of "fairway divots"....we're in the exact same spot as the standing water rule. What constitutes a "Divot"? (at what point is a divot considered "healed" even if you can visually see that it was recently a divot) You'll just have officials making rulings and someone will always get mad.
Being forced to hit out of a fairway divot is total BS. When I'm playing for fun (or in a match-play style tournament where my opponent and I agree to it before we tee off) I'm moving it 6 inches and hitting from a clean lie.
Golf is too hard as it is and we're already at a disadvantage to the pros due to lack of galleries (nothing more frustrating that not being able to find a ball that you 100% know is in play and would be found in 5 seconds if there were people watching)
But of course....if you give pros the ability to move out of "fairway divots"....we're in the exact same spot as the standing water rule. What constitutes a "Divot"? (at what point is a divot considered "healed" even if you can visually see that it was recently a divot) You'll just have officials making rulings and someone will always get mad.
TLEF316
Footballguy
In terms of numbers sure. But I think it was more the mental impact of the "bad" ruling (which then caused one bad shot...which compounded into several).
But to the point....if you want to be a champ...gotta get over it and hit the next shot.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
100%.
I've noticed that the pros complaining about getting a bad lie in the fairway and saying you shouldn't get punished for a good shot don't throw their ball back in the woods when it bounces off a tree and into the fairway, and they get rewarded for a bad shot.
TLEF316
Footballguy
This is very fair.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Exactly - thats what I mean when I say "luck evens out in the long run anyway."
If I were to complain about anything from this tourney specifically, it is that the weather creating very different conditions depending on when you teed off seems less like luck and more impactful somehow. I can't quite put my finger on why, except that if the conditions themselves literally become different, it feels like it changes the course itself. You could tell me thats just some good or bad luck too though and I don't have a great reason why it feels different, it just does.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Of course it changes the course. If you had asked Burns, Scott, and Hovland early Sunday morning would they have rather have teed off at 7:30 a.m. (when the weather was forecast to be fairly benign) or at 2:30 p.m. (when there was a forecast of nastier weather), what do you think they would have chosen? Those teeing off early had no shot of winning. I'd take my chances with the weather if I knew I had a chance to win.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I've always had an issue with that rule as well. A spot that's a little bald whatever I'm not entitled to a perfect lie just because my shot was straight. But if I'm in the middle of the fairway and in a 1/2" deep divot that seems palpably unfair, to borrow a term from a different sport.
I agree with Chief's earlier point though that the people who are always improving their lies are posting a score that is substantially better than their ability. My chipping ability goes from mediocre to pretty darn good if I can fluff the ball up every time and I think people that move the ball regularly vastly underestimate how many strokes they are shaving versus playing it down.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah...if you're fluffing your lie in the rough, you're not posting a real score. And honestly......if you're just playing for fun, that's 100% fine. Just dont go around bragging about your handicap or complaining when your vanity index makes you non competitive in NET tournaments.
My dad is 75 years old and plays (usually walking with a pull cart) 100+ rounds a year. He's still in good shape (although a cancer battle a couple of years ago cost him some mobility in his left arm. He's moved up to the gold tees full time at this point) and can play some good golf, but I've definitely noticed him getting more and more liberal with his application of "winter rules". But at this point, I figured he's entitled.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Like when you hit it stiff, only for the ball to ricochet off the pin and roll 60 yards backwards.
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