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'22 WR Class - Is There Another Jefferson Chase? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LawFitz
- Start date
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I speak Jive.
Jefferson Chase isnt a person, just missing a comma, but I suspect Johnny knows that and was being obtuse.
Jefferson was drafted 4th (of WRs) in his class, behind a stud (Lamb) , a dud (Reagor?) and a duck (Ruggs).
Chase is the best of the 2020 and 2021 classes.
Who is the Chase/Jefferson of the 2022 draft?
Jefferson Chase isnt a person, just missing a comma, but I suspect Johnny knows that and was being obtuse.
Jefferson was drafted 4th (of WRs) in his class, behind a stud (Lamb) , a dud (Reagor?) and a duck (Ruggs).
Chase is the best of the 2020 and 2021 classes.
Who is the Chase/Jefferson of the 2022 draft?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
6-5, he's tall but 88 catches last year only amounted to a little over 1,000 yds and 7 scores. London could be a solid No 2 WR in the NFL I'm not looking at a guy that can stretch the field but could be a nice red zone option.
Wilson had an outstanding Junior season, one would think he might actually get better. I like Chris Olave a lot, has a knack for finding the end zone. Has multiple double digit TD seasons, not that common in College Football, maybe because of the Draft class last year, Olave stayed and played his Senior Year, well polished WR that will fit in nicely on whichever team takes him.
I hear you JU, all of them have some detracting things, none of them are in the class of the Top 3 last year, none of them are as good as Elijah Moore either.
Drake London just sounds like a cool name to have. "The Drake"
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I was joking obviously. Obtuse is a word nobody used before Shawshank Redemption. At least I made a statement about players in the 2022 class
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Mambo dog face to the banana patch?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I don’t see a guy that’ll have that kind of impact in this draft class. I see some players that I think will be solid, and a couple who could eventually be top-10 dynasty WR’s.
Now, in 2023 I think there’s a good chance you see at least one of the next Chase/Jefferson types…
Now, in 2023 I think there’s a good chance you see at least one of the next Chase/Jefferson types…
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Seems that Green Bay just became a great landing spot for a WR?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
You are absolutely correct. People hold Amari Rodgers think he's the next man up, but I'm not sure about that.
Pwingles
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
There likely won't be another Chase.
I was higher on Jefferson then most, had him in a tier by himself as WR3/player 8, but he still was better then I thought but point is he was not some uber can't miss prospect. So yes, there can be another Jefferson, he's a really good player most of us were not high enough on, but Chase is something far more unique.
I was higher on Jefferson then most, had him in a tier by himself as WR3/player 8, but he still was better then I thought but point is he was not some uber can't miss prospect. So yes, there can be another Jefferson, he's a really good player most of us were not high enough on, but Chase is something far more unique.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He’s also reportedly now only 6’3”
And reportedly gained 8 lbs, but he reportedly wasn't recovered enough to participate at the combine.
So….burrito gains?
We don’t know how fast he is, and he’s not as good a route runner as almost every other WR talked about (he’s reportedly not a bad route runner, just not as good) and his best attribute is “ability to make the contested catch”, which I’ve read is the least likely skill to translate to the NFL.
We’ll know more when he hosts workouts prior to the draft.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
One of their names Is Kayshon Boutte (pronounced “bootay”), and he’s coming out in 2023.
The other is Jaxon Smith-Njigba, and he’s also coming out in 2023.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
After 1 or 2 of the top names I prefer the guys a little further back. Skyy Moore is skyy high on my list. I'm starting to get that Elijah feeling I got last year but I don't want to get excited about him. I got so hyped on Elijah last year that it broke my heart when the Jets drafted him.He’s also reportedly now only 6’3”
And reportedly gained 8 lbs, but he reportedly wasn't recovered enough to participate at the combine.
So….burrito gains?
We don’t know how fast he is, and he’s not as good a route runner as almost every other WR talked about (he’s reportedly not a bad route runner, just not as good) and his best attribute is “ability to make the contested catch”, which I’ve read is the least likely skill to translate to the NFL.
We’ll know more when he hosts workouts prior to the draft.
Dotson, Pickens, Watson, Williams, all these guys have a chance to hit depending on where they land and what the depth charts look like. Path to being a starter usually has an impact on their development.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Whenever anyone says this as the best/primary thing about a wideout in college football, what I hear is "can't really separate from NCAA defenders."
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah - and they’re making those contested catches against future insurance salesmen, not premium NFL DBs.
Yep, both of these guys have the potential to make Chase-like impacts. It’s unbelievable to fathom, but JSN has the potential to be an even better prospect than Chase.One of their names Is Kayshon Boutte (pronounced “bootay”), and he’s coming out in 2023.
The other is Jaxon Smith-Njigba, and he’s also coming out in 2023.
I feel like people saying this haven't watched Drake London at all, and are just basing it on his size or a highlight or 2. London might be the best route runner in this class. Its him or Olave.
His best attribute is his yards after catch. He breaks tackles at will. The contested catch is great too, but he's nowhere near one dimensional. London's only flaw is his lack of speed. He's probably a 4.55-4.65 guy.
You know somebody hasn't watched London, when they throw out names like Mike Evans, or Vincent Jackson, he's much more similar to a Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m going by scouting reports. Those guys have more knowledge and experience than i do. I trust their insight to his route running more than my own.
And again - they said he’s a decent route runner, just not as good as Olave, Wilson or some of the other top prospects.
as for the “breaks tackles” - like “contested catch” that says 2 things: 1. He’s not getting a lot of separation, and 2. It’s easier to do in college than the pros.
I don’t see a Bolden comp. Bolden was 6’ & 1/2” and 216, built thicker than London. But yeah, he was slow with a 4.73 40 time so maybe that’s the comp?
I don’t like the Marshall comp either - at 6’5”, Marshall was (as of the 2022 combine) 2” taller than London, and was a guy who ran a 4.52 40 at 229 lbs. far more impressive physical specimen who dominated smaller/lighter DBs.
London’s college weight was listed as 210 lbs & he didn’t run at the combine. But those same scouts agree with you that he’s slow-Ish. Which is weird since his playing weight was lighter than either Boldin or Marshall.
again: I’m holding out judgement until he hosts workouts. Maybe he wows with agility / high jump drills, or maybe he’s faster than folks are saying.
for now I see a team of red flags, but I’m willing to reserve judgement. I don’t see reason to gush over him yet.
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Comp wise, I mean more style of player, than size/speed. London wins with equal physicality at the catch point, and after the catch.
I think London is a slightly better route runner than Wilson. Wilson's never proven he can beat press coverage, his routes against off coverage are excellent, but if he can't beat press, he's less useful. Kinda like Jerry Jeudy.
Of the top prospects, I'd say Burks is pretty clearly the worst route runner. Which is why I have him as the 5th best WR in this class, and a borderline 1st rounder.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Consensus opinion agrees about Burks.
But some are saying he’s “better than people think”, which, combined with his other attributes, could make him the better NFL prospect.
As for London, he also reportedly isn’t able to beat press coverage - thus all the talk of contested catch ability, and YAC.
All good if those translate to the NFL. All bad if they don’t.
To answer the original question, I think Drake London is the best WR in this class(barely over Wilson, and it was probably Williams pre-ACL tear) but I think its very unrealistic to assume he(or anyone) will be on the Jefferson/Chase level.
Truth be told, I actually think Chase himself, kinda lucked out going to Cincy. I don't think he'd have had the year he had anywhere else. Which isn't a knock on him, he's clearly great, but that was the perfect marriage of player and team.
In Jefferson's case, I think he might be the best WR in the NFL. I'd actually argue he's been somewhat held back in Minnesota. Not that Cousins isn't a good QB, but more that he's on a run first team, and while his season ending targets look great, he does get forgotten about at times, his targets didn't really pick up until Thielen went down. I think he'd have been great on almost any team is my point.
Truth be told, I actually think Chase himself, kinda lucked out going to Cincy. I don't think he'd have had the year he had anywhere else. Which isn't a knock on him, he's clearly great, but that was the perfect marriage of player and team.
In Jefferson's case, I think he might be the best WR in the NFL. I'd actually argue he's been somewhat held back in Minnesota. Not that Cousins isn't a good QB, but more that he's on a run first team, and while his season ending targets look great, he does get forgotten about at times, his targets didn't really pick up until Thielen went down. I think he'd have been great on almost any team is my point.
Warhogs
Footballguy
The window is closing in Green Bay. I will be very surprised if they don't bring in a veteran WR or two to replace Adams. They may very well draft a WR but I'm still expecting a run for one of the better veteran WR available coming from Green Bay. Possibly Jarvis Landry, Julio or a trade for Lockett?
Not that I'm necessarily expecting either, but its way more likely Seattle deals Metcalf than Lockett. They just extended Lockett, and would be on the hook for over 20 million if they got rid of him. Metcalf on the other hand is on the last year of his deal, and actually saves them money, especially if they have no intention of giving him a long term deal.
Green Bay has a lot of cap space right now, though I imagine extending Jaire Alexander is priority #1. I think a vet addition and a rookie addition make sense.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Metcalf is a player you build around. Why ship off your young superstar wideout rather than making him part of the rebuild?
i agree about Lockett, I just don’t see why Seattle would move off of Metcalf.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Burrito gains?? You think he is out of shape and slacking on the couch?He’s also reportedly now only 6’3”
And reportedly gained 8 lbs, but he reportedly wasn't recovered enough to participate at the combine.
So….burrito gains?
We don’t know how fast he is, and he’s not as good a route runner as almost every other WR talked about (he’s reportedly not a bad route runner, just not as good) and his best attribute is “ability to make the contested catch”, which I’ve read is the least likely skill to translate to the NFL.
We’ll know more when he hosts workouts prior to the draft.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Amari Rodgers ceiling is probably as a slot contributor. GB is almost surely going to target a veteran WR like Woods, Julio, Watkins, Sanders, etc. and take a WR in the first round.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I have no idea. I just know he gained 8 lbs but isn't able to work out at the combine. It's a guess.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It's possible but would be pretty shocking for such a high level athlete who has trained so hard his whole life and is on the verge of his big payday. There's two things here:
1. We don't know he gained 8 pounds. You can't trust the college measurables of any player, the programs are never accurate with those. The weight he measured in at the combine could be the weight he played at last year. If he did gain 8 pounds and the USC weight was accurate, that was likely in the spring. He may have added that muscle over the course of months of lifting and training.
2. He is likely able to work out now. He's just not in peak form so he's not going to workout and post numbers that don't reflect what he is fully capable of. It would be stupid to run a 40 at 90%.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
See, when I questioned if he was really 218 now, and how he lost 2”’of height, I was told emphatically that “college measurements are unreliable & you can 100% trust the combine”
So which is it?
Either he’s a slight of build 6’5” beanpole who’s somehow also sluggish, or he’s a stout 6’3” 218 lb beast (who’s also sluggish)
I’ve watched a lot of video of him, and he looked skinny to me.
So again, for the umpteenth time: I’m going to reserve judgment until I see results from his pre-draft workouts.
The bottom lines for me here are whether he runs a sub 4.5 40, what his vertical is, and how well he runs routes.
talk of contested catches & broken tackles is all well & good, but skills need to translate to the NFL.
ETA: regarding #2, Spiller worked out with a strained adductor. I’m just sayin - showed toughness, at the very least.!
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
What do you mean which is it? The college measurements aren't reliable. We see it every year. They aren't done in the public like the combine.
For starters London is closer to 6'4" than he is 6'3" so if we are rounding, we should round to 6'4". With that, 6'4" 218 is not really a beast. Research shows NFL WRs should be over 26 for BMI. Ideally a BMI over 27. London has a BMI of 26.5. So London is still on the slightly lean side body composition wise.
I am not saying he's going to translate or that he is fast. I am not totally sold on London either. I just don't get why you are accusing him being lazy and out of shape.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m not. It was a question. That’s why I used a question mark asking if it was burrito gains, and didn’t say he was “lazy and out of shape”.
I was surprised he’d gained 8 lbs while still not being able to run at the combine.
I'm not suggesting they should. Just that its easier, and likely gets more in return.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I don't watch college ball so I also rely on scouts and metrics and this forum, twitter, etc., so IDK if London comps well to these guys or not. I know they have some variation in size but they were all fairly well built. But I think those two pairings actually make a great example of two different types of WRs and I know that is exactly what you meant. Evans and Jackson aren't/weren't one-dimensional but definitely long ball contested catch guys. Lots of work on the outside. Marshall and Boldin could win everywhere because they were elite route runners *and* they were physically imposing. If you're right that is high praise because I do hold Marshall and Boldin above those other two. No disrespect to Evans. Or VJax who I had my best Madden run with.
I wanted to push back on this on a little. I *think* the idea with the contested catch thing isn't that is doesn't translate to the pros. Being good at contested catches absolutely translates to the pros (just that one skill I mean). I *think* what is meant is that if the reason they're making contested catches is because they're not getting separation, then *that* skill, or lack of it, will be a problem at the pro level. It is of course better to be good at both. But a high number of contested catches is *not* necessarily an indicator for lack of separation. It can be. There are plenty of elite route runners that have great contested catch ability. Great route runners can't *always* get separation - any pro receiver needs to be able to make contested catches. It does matter. But I tend to heavily favor looking for the elite route runners. It is definitely the more desirable trait.
And breaking tackles is absolutely a desirable trait. It says nothing about route running and separation. If anything elite route running and separation put you into a position to *more effectively* set up a defender for a juke. Less separation means you get #######d as soon as you catch it. Breaking tackles is fundamentally a good thing in football. Even in college where there is seemingly green grass for miles, it is a strong predictor of success. The broken tackles leaders in the NFL are a veritable list of studs. I think you have to sort of break WRs in to different types though and I think FF largely misses that distinction in these analyses. Rant over.
Yeah IDK anything about him except like you said I thought he was 6'5" and now I don't.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
right - it’s the combination. Absolutely. and as I’ve said - I am also relying on scouts.
and what I’ve been reading is that he’s not that fast, but can make contested catches.
It’s a concern. His pro day or private workout or whatever he hosts should be telling.
I’m wondering if he’ll be doing agility drills or high jump, or if he’s just going to run a 40 & get measured? I’m not sure how those events are structured.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What veterans are still available? Landry and Julio aren’t very good anymore, so I don’t think they hamper a rookie much this year and of course not longer term. Lockett would make sense but if the Seahawks trade for Mayfield or another veteran QB, they may not be looking to trade their WRs. Everyone assumes they are rebuilding but the other moves they’ve made beside Wilson suggests otherwise.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He is what is was at the combine - why make this more difficult that it is? The weight and measure these guys in a room full of people. It is 100% accurate.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ok, so he’s 6’3”
I'm not making it more difficult - someone said he’s “closer to 6’4”, and in college they claimed he’s 6’5”
Please note: I’m not the one who published any of these heights, but he can’t be all 3, so I’m just trying to figure out which he is.
ETA: I just watched “highlights” of the Colorado game where they used press coverage on him all game & he was smothered. He has skills - getting separation against press coverage is not one of them.
Looks good in the short to intermediate game against zone though.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Because he was measured at 6’3 3/4” inches and that is closer to 6’4” than 6’3”? He said that to “correct” you.Ok, so he’s 6’3”
I'm not making it more difficult - someone said he’s “closer to 6’4”, and in college they claimed he’s 6’5”
Please note: I’m not the one who published any of these heights, but he can’t be all 3, so I’m just trying to figure out which he is.
ETA: I just watched “highlights” of the Colorado game where they used press coverage on him all game & he was smothered. He has skills - getting separation against press coverage is not one of them.
Looks good in the short to intermediate game against zone though.
Not that I think it’s matters either way.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
Jefferson Chase is Syd Finch's half-brother, on his mother's side.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I originally saw the combine number as 6’3”. Now I see 6’3 & 7/8”, so ok - he’s closer to 6’4”
None of that’s going to matter if he can get separation against press coverage in the NFL.
that's the point.
