2nd teir rookie RBs (1 Viewer)

[Captain_Apocalypse]

Just wondering what people around here think of the bottom end of the draftable RB's in this years rookie crop.

The way I see it there are the RB's who will most likely be drafted in round 1 of most rookie drafts:

DMac

Stewart

Mendenhall

Smith

Jones

Johnson

Forte

Rice

(Maybe Torain? Based on the 'ol Denver RB theory)

I feel like the pool has a lot of opinions and facts established about these guys and they are pretty much consensus "good gambles"

But these other guys who might contribute or grow into something there isn't much info about.

How do you feel / what do you think of these guys?

Jacob Hester

Jamaal Charles

Steve Slayton

Tashard Choice

Tim Hightower

Owen Schmitt

Omon Xavier

Homers? any info? Who is the best choice out of all of them? Did I miss anyone? Are they waiver wire pickups or solid picks?

Bear in mind this is for dynasty.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Just wondering what people around here think of the bottom end of the draftable RB's in this years rookie crop. The way I see it there are the RB's who will most likely be drafted in round 1 of most rookie draftsMacStewartMendenhallSmithJonesJohnsonForteRice(Maybe Torain? Based on the 'ol Denver RB theory) I feel like the pool has a lot of opinions and facts established about these guys and they are pretty much consensus "good gambles"But these other guys who might contribute or grow into something there isn't much info about. How do you feel / what do you think of these guys?Jacob HesterJamaal CharlesSteve SlaytonTashard ChoiceTim HightowerOwen SchmittOmon XavierHomers? any info? Who is the best choice out of all of them? Did I miss anyone? Are they waiver wire pickups or solid picks?Bear in mind this is for dynasty.

The only 2 of that list that I've seen enough to comment about are Slaton and Charles. I think Slaton has excellent upside in Houston and that he fell into a good situation. He won't have to be thrown to the wolves right away with Green and Brown there, but at the same time, we all know that neither of them will stay healthy. It will definitely be a RBBC in Houston this season, but I believe that Slaton will really get a chance to establish himself as a primary back in Houston over the next 2-3 seasons and will have good value especiall in ppr leagues.As for Charles, I saw just about every game he played in college and while he has excellent speed, I really thought he should have stayed in school another season. I'm not sure he is a starting NFL back and I don't believe that he'll be able to take the pounding of running between the tackles. He can flat out fly, but doesn't have great moves. I don't see him making much of an impact at all this season unless LJ goes down and even then KC would be going to a RBBC approach. I'm not ready to say he will be a total bust, but I just don't see him being a true starting RB at the next level.

 

[loose circuits]

Corey Boyd is a guy that I really like his skill set for PPR leagues. I think he could have a decent career as a back-up RB/emergency fill in. Unfortunately, he is behind Graham, Dunn, Bennett, and Caddy (??). Boyd reminds me of Chris Brown quite a bit...

Also, Benjarvus Green-Ellis. He has an uphill battle for a roster spot, but there is some upside there. I could see him being a GL back some day...

 

[moderated]

i think Charles is the only one who has potential to become a viable fantasy starter down the road. The others are either scrubs or situational players.

 

[EBF]

I like Charles, but I see him as a career change of pace back due to his rail thin frame.

I'm not very high on Slaton. Too small. Not very elusive. I didn't like that pick by Houston.

Omon, Choice, and Parmele are my favorite sleepers in this RB class. Omon is a step slow, but he has featured back size and good natural running skills. I think he can produce if he gets an opportunity, but I don't know if he's good enough to earn significant playing time in the absence of an injury to the starter.

Parmele is a workout warrior with decent college production. He looks great on paper, but he's a bit long-legged and he doesn't always play up to his combine numbers. I still like him because he's available for dirt cheap and he physically fits the profile of a top flight NFL starter.

Choice is a solid player with good overall skills. He does everything pretty well and has enough size to potentially handle a full workload. On the downside, he's not really spectacular in any way and I'll be surprised if he becomes more than a Chester Taylor type. He'll probably stick in the league. That doesn't mean he'll ever be a useful FF player though.

I'm not tripping over myself to hype any of these guys this year. There are some interesting sleepers in this bunch, but there's a reason most of them fell into the later rounds. They all have some flaws.

 

[HawkeyeChief]

Boyd got in a fight with his teammate at the rookie symposium.

 

[Max Power]

I also like Charles the most from this list. Some tend to forget that this kid has never had a football offseason. He ran track in college instead of hitting thw weights. I don't think he will have a problem adding another 10-15 pounds over the next two years. A 215-220 Charles would be legit 15+ touch a game guy.

I don't like his situation in KC though. Charles is a speed guy and KC is known to be a "slow" field.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

In terms of Dynasty I'd rank them like this..

Jamaal Charles - I think he could end up taking over for Johnson as early as the next two years. I expect Johnson to either flake out or burn out of his starter role. Charles is a bit undersized at present, but could put on another 10 lbs and play at around 210 while still maintaining his lethal speed.

Tim Hightower - Won't outrun anyone but he's a big bruiser who could be a Jamal Lewis type back. Plus, he only has Edgerrin James to go through, a guy that will retire sooner rather than later.

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Jacob Hester - I can see him being a Mike Alstott like player. He'll never be more than 2nd fiddle to the starter, though.

Steve Slaton - Too small to be much more than a change of pace back.

Omon Xavier - Could be the #2 to Lynch, but won't be anything more.

Owen Schmitt - Won't be anything more than a blocker.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

In terms of Dynasty I'd rank them like this..

Jamaal Charles - I think he could end up taking over for Johnson as early as the next two years. I expect Johnson to either flake out or burn out of his starter role. Charles is a bit undersized at present, but could put on another 10 lbs and play at around 210 while still maintaining his lethal speed.

Tim Hightower - Won't outrun anyone but he's a big bruiser who could be a Jamal Lewis type back. Plus, he only has Edgerrin James to go through, a guy that will retire sooner rather than later.

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Jacob Hester - I can see him being a Mike Alstott like player. He'll never be more than 2nd fiddle to the starter, though.

Steve Slaton - Too small to be much more than a change of pace back.

Omon Xavier - Could be the #2 to Lynch, but won't be anything more.

Owen Schmitt - Won't be anything more than a blocker.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

Okay. What I meant was that he's going to be the third option until/unless someone gets hurt.

 

[Brutis]

In terms of Dynasty I'd rank them like this..

Jamaal Charles - I think he could end up taking over for Johnson as early as the next two years. I expect Johnson to either flake out or burn out of his starter role. Charles is a bit undersized at present, but could put on another 10 lbs and play at around 210 while still maintaining his lethal speed.

Tim Hightower - Won't outrun anyone but he's a big bruiser who could be a Jamal Lewis type back. Plus, he only has Edgerrin James to go through, a guy that will retire sooner rather than later.

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Jacob Hester - I can see him being a Mike Alstott like player. He'll never be more than 2nd fiddle to the starter, though.

Steve Slaton - Too small to be much more than a change of pace back.

Omon Xavier - Could be the #2 to Lynch, but won't be anything more.

Owen Schmitt - Won't be anything more than a blocker.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

 

[Jedimaster21]

Jamal Charles is by far the best of this group. If he was a little bigger, he could have been a first round pick. Like Andy said, if he is able to put on a little weight, he could easily be the starter for the Chiefs for multiple years.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

In terms of Dynasty I'd rank them like this..

Jamaal Charles - I think he could end up taking over for Johnson as early as the next two years. I expect Johnson to either flake out or burn out of his starter role. Charles is a bit undersized at present, but could put on another 10 lbs and play at around 210 while still maintaining his lethal speed.

Tim Hightower - Won't outrun anyone but he's a big bruiser who could be a Jamal Lewis type back. Plus, he only has Edgerrin James to go through, a guy that will retire sooner rather than later.

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Jacob Hester - I can see him being a Mike Alstott like player. He'll never be more than 2nd fiddle to the starter, though.

Steve Slaton - Too small to be much more than a change of pace back.

Omon Xavier - Could be the #2 to Lynch, but won't be anything more.

Owen Schmitt - Won't be anything more than a blocker.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

I'd still rather have Jones in a PPR league.

 

[EBF]

Jamal Charles is by far the best of this group. If he was a little bigger, he could have been a first round pick. Like Andy said, if he is able to put on a little weight, he could easily be the starter for the Chiefs for multiple years.

Therein lies the rub. He's built like a twig. http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073cd8c

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

If you want to say he's #2 behind Barber and thus has value as a handcuff that's fine, but in terms of opportunity, he IS behind Jones and Barber.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Jamal Charles is by far the best of this group. If he was a little bigger, he could have been a first round pick. Like Andy said, if he is able to put on a little weight, he could easily be the starter for the Chiefs for multiple years.

Therein lies the rub. He's built like a twig. http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073cd8c

He's 200 pounds. It's not unreasonable to think he can add 10.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

If you want to say he's #2 behind Barber and thus has value as a handcuff that's fine, but in terms of opportunity, he IS behind Jones and Barber.

I agree with this, especially in a PPR league.

 

[Brutis]

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

If you want to say he's #2 behind Barber and thus has value as a handcuff that's fine, but in terms of opportunity, he IS behind Jones and Barber.

I dont think felix has alot of upside. Would you feel comfortable starting someone who you know will only get around 8 carries a game? I would much rather grab Choice much later with the upside of getting 15 carries and more importantly the goal line work over felix.I would rather let someone else grab the career COB's like felix and jamal charles. Just my opinion.

 

[EBF]

Jamal Charles is by far the best of this group. If he was a little bigger, he could have been a first round pick. Like Andy said, if he is able to put on a little weight, he could easily be the starter for the Chiefs for multiple years.

Therein lies the rub. He's built like a twig. http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073cd8c

He's 200 pounds. It's not unreasonable to think he can add 10.

Look at his body. He's rail thin. I don't see where the weight is going to come from. When I look at Charles, Johnson, and McFadden, I see guys whose bodies will prevent them from being workhorse backs in the NFL. Look at these guys:

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d807373de

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d80738aad

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073c5e5

That's what an NFL RB looks like. Charles is built more like a hurdler than a linebacker.

 

[T Bell]

Boyd got in a fight with his teammate at the rookie symposium.

LMAOI'd somehow missed that story.

 

[Sopranos]

I still like Slaton. He is 5'10" and thats not that small for an NFl back. He does need more Bulk. That comes with age and hard work.

 

[Kleck]

I think Charles can add weight too. He's young and it's realistic to think/hope he might broaden out a little more. But anyone can add weight. It's his frame that worries me most too.

I've seen some people throughout the spring compare Charles to Portis. As smaller speed guy that needed to gain some mass. Portis early on had a broader frame and thicker legs though, so it wasn't unnatural or hard for him to gain 10 pounds and carry it well. His style of play has shifted a bit from his Hurricane days to a tougher back that has proven to be a solid inside runner. Charles has a way to go before I would consider him a poor man's Portis.

I see Charles as more of a Norwood clone. Plenty of talent/skills, but in more of a WR body. Norwood has yet to fill out like some had hoped, and I'm not sure he ever does. Another guy that needs to hit the offseason hard and be reevaluated each summer.

I'm still intrigued by Charles talents, and as a compliment to LJ I could see him doing very well. Long term or as a feature back, I'm just not there yet to believe he can be anything more than a COP/complimentary back.

 

[EBF]

I see Charles as more of a Norwood clone. Plenty of talent/skills, but in more of a WR body.

That's about how I see it. He's one of the more exciting runners in this class, but his body puts a low cap on his FF upside. He's a pure RBBC type.

 

[massraider]

Jamal Charles is by far the best of this group. If he was a little bigger, he could have been a first round pick. Like Andy said, if he is able to put on a little weight, he could easily be the starter for the Chiefs for multiple years.

Therein lies the rub. He's built like a twig. http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073cd8c

He's 200 pounds. It's not unreasonable to think he can add 10.

Look at his body. He's rail thin. I don't see where the weight is going to come from. When I look at Charles, Johnson, and McFadden, I see guys whose bodies will prevent them from being workhorse backs in the NFL. Look at these guys:

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d807373de

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d80738aad

http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d8073c5e5

That's what an NFL RB looks like. Charles is built more like a hurdler than a linebacker.

Showing Jonathan Stewart's body isn't really the correct comparison. He doesn't need to gain weight.If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

I am not really qualified to judge someone's ability to gain weight, I don't even know what to look for, but I know he's a track guy. Which makes me think he's never done much serious weight work, and has only trained for speed. I'm not seeing a guy that has maxed out his body.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

I see Charles as more of a Norwood clone. Plenty of talent/skills, but in more of a WR body.

That's about how I see it. He's one of the more exciting runners in this class, but his body puts a low cap on his FF upside. He's a pure RBBC type.

Too much is made of RB size in the Shark Pool.

 

[dmac37]

I see Charles as more of a Norwood clone. Plenty of talent/skills, but in more of a WR body.

That's about how I see it. He's one of the more exciting runners in this class, but his body puts a low cap on his FF upside. He's a pure RBBC type.

Too much is made of RB size in the Shark Pool.

If your talking about lbs, I agreeIf you factor in BMI, there has been some good evidence to support using ideal BMI range as an additional reference tool.I also like to consider vision and quickness vs 40yd speed.

 

[BigTex]

Tashard Choice - It's too bad that he ended up in the situation he did, behind Barber & Jones, because I think he has the talent to make it.

Who's to say he's behind Jones? From what I'm reading Jones would still be the COP back should Barber go down, with Choice getting the majority of the work.

This would be correct. Choice is the guy to have if anything ever happened to MBIII. Felix role as a COB wont be affected. Choice would fill barbers role. People are missing the boat on this one.

If you want to say he's #2 behind Barber and thus has value as a handcuff that's fine, but in terms of opportunity, he IS behind Jones and Barber.

I'm with Andy on this one, I heard with my own two ears Jerry Jones say that he had enough faith in Felix that if Barber went down that he could carry the load . I've been targeting Felix but being in Cowboy country I don't think I'll get him considering I'm at the 1.7 spot.

 

[Captain_Apocalypse]

Thanks for all the replys, this is just what I wanted to hear. I am sure more will be said once TC starts and we see a little in pre-season work. Not much love for Hester though huh? From what I heard they plan on using him a lot in SD and he was looking good, also seems like there isn't anyone else there to back up LT2.

Another question on these guys is where would you consider drafting them in a rookie draft ? Are they even worth drafting or do you wait and try to pick them up on the WW?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Thanks for all the replys, this is just what I wanted to hear. I am sure more will be said once TC starts and we see a little in pre-season work. Not much love for Hester though huh? From what I heard they plan on using him a lot in SD and he was looking good, also seems like there isn't anyone else there to back up LT2. Another question on these guys is where would you consider drafting them in a rookie draft ? Are they even worth drafting or do you wait and try to pick them up on the WW?

Assuming 12 team, dynasty, and non-IDP...Charles is a late 1st round rookie pick.Choice is an early 3rd rounder.Hightower is late 3rd rounderThe rest are best left to WW fodder.IMO

 

[EBF]

If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

One of my college roommates had a bodybuilding book that mentioned three different fundamental body types: ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph. There's some information on this stuff here:http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

The basic idea is that there are different body types and they all respond to weight training differently. This seems pretty intuitive. I'm guessing that we all have some acquaintances who gain muscle mass with ease and some who struggle to add bulk despite logging a lot of hours in the weight room. That's because gaining weight isn't simply a matter of will. If it were, every WR in the NFL would be bulked up like Terrell Owens. In reality, the reason few guys get that big is because few guys have the body type needed to accommodate that kind of muscle mass.

I look at guys like Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden, and Jamaal Charles and see classic examples of a lean frame with limited natural bulk. All three guys are muscular, yet none of them have the mass you look for in a pro RB. People who defend these guys when I use this argument are quick to point out that Clinton Portis gained a lot of weight after hitting the league. I'd argue that he's an exception.

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

So while I can't definitively say it's impossible that someone like Charles or McFadden will bulk up, I can say I'd much rather bet on the rule than bet on a player becoming an exception. Couple the long odds with my personal opinion that both guys are trapped in fatal frames and it's easy to understand why I consistently file them into the "unlikely to be a workhorse" category.

 

[coolnerd]

Under the FWIW category, on a radio interview (no link) John McClain claimed that steve Slayton in now at 207.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Under the FWIW category, on a radio interview (no link) John McClain claimed that steve Slayton in now at 207.

That's quite interesting.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Under the FWIW category, on a radio interview (no link) John McClain claimed that steve Slayton in now at 207.

He is my favorite of the bunch. While he probably starts as a COP in houston, i think he is getting the bulk of the touches by mid-season.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

One of my college roommates had a bodybuilding book that mentioned three different fundamental body types: ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph. There's some information on this stuff here:http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

The basic idea is that there are different body types and they all respond to weight training differently. This seems pretty intuitive. I'm guessing that we all have some acquaintances who gain muscle mass with ease and some who struggle to add bulk despite logging a lot of hours in the weight room. That's because gaining weight isn't simply a matter of will. If it were, every WR in the NFL would be bulked up like Terrell Owens. In reality, the reason few guys get that big is because few guys have the body type needed to accommodate that kind of muscle mass.

I look at guys like Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden, and Jamaal Charles and see classic examples of a lean frame with limited natural bulk. All three guys are muscular, yet none of them have the mass you look for in a pro RB. People who defend these guys when I use this argument are quick to point out that Clinton Portis gained a lot of weight after hitting the league. I'd argue that he's an exception.

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

So while I can't definitively say it's impossible that someone like Charles or McFadden will bulk up, I can say I'd much rather bet on the rule than bet on a player becoming an exception. Couple the long odds with my personal opinion that both guys are trapped in fatal frames and it's easy to understand why I consistently file them into the "unlikely to be a workhorse" category.

If you put so much focus on body frame, then why are you so high on Reggie Bush? He's got twig legs and has already headed down the road of can't run between the tackles.

 

[Kleck]

Under the FWIW category, on a radio interview (no link) John McClain claimed that steve Slayton in now at 207.

He is my favorite of the bunch. While he probably starts as a COP in houston, i think he is getting the bulk of the touches by mid-season.

I like him too. Especially since I'm seeing him fall to the 3rd round in rookie drafts.

 

[EBF]

If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

One of my college roommates had a bodybuilding book that mentioned three different fundamental body types: ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph. There's some information on this stuff here:http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

The basic idea is that there are different body types and they all respond to weight training differently. This seems pretty intuitive. I'm guessing that we all have some acquaintances who gain muscle mass with ease and some who struggle to add bulk despite logging a lot of hours in the weight room. That's because gaining weight isn't simply a matter of will. If it were, every WR in the NFL would be bulked up like Terrell Owens. In reality, the reason few guys get that big is because few guys have the body type needed to accommodate that kind of muscle mass.

I look at guys like Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden, and Jamaal Charles and see classic examples of a lean frame with limited natural bulk. All three guys are muscular, yet none of them have the mass you look for in a pro RB. People who defend these guys when I use this argument are quick to point out that Clinton Portis gained a lot of weight after hitting the league. I'd argue that he's an exception.

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

So while I can't definitively say it's impossible that someone like Charles or McFadden will bulk up, I can say I'd much rather bet on the rule than bet on a player becoming an exception. Couple the long odds with my personal opinion that both guys are trapped in fatal frames and it's easy to understand why I consistently file them into the "unlikely to be a workhorse" category.

If you put so much focus on body frame, then why are you so high on Reggie Bush? He's got twig legs and has already headed down the road of can't run between the tackles.

Have you seen my hyping Reggie Bush lately?Bush's underwhelming performance is one of the things that made me realize the importance of BMI.

 

[identikit]

If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

One of my college roommates had a bodybuilding book that mentioned three different fundamental body types: ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph. There's some information on this stuff here:http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

The basic idea is that there are different body types and they all respond to weight training differently. This seems pretty intuitive. I'm guessing that we all have some acquaintances who gain muscle mass with ease and some who struggle to add bulk despite logging a lot of hours in the weight room. That's because gaining weight isn't simply a matter of will. If it were, every WR in the NFL would be bulked up like Terrell Owens. In reality, the reason few guys get that big is because few guys have the body type needed to accommodate that kind of muscle mass.

I look at guys like Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden, and Jamaal Charles and see classic examples of a lean frame with limited natural bulk. All three guys are muscular, yet none of them have the mass you look for in a pro RB. People who defend these guys when I use this argument are quick to point out that Clinton Portis gained a lot of weight after hitting the league. I'd argue that he's an exception.

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

So while I can't definitively say it's impossible that someone like Charles or McFadden will bulk up, I can say I'd much rather bet on the rule than bet on a player becoming an exception. Couple the long odds with my personal opinion that both guys are trapped in fatal frames and it's easy to understand why I consistently file them into the "unlikely to be a workhorse" category.

If you put so much focus on body frame, then why are you so high on Reggie Bush? He's got twig legs and has already headed down the road of can't run between the tackles.

Have you seen my hyping Reggie Bush lately?Bush's underwhelming performance is one of the things that made me realize the importance of BMI.

Just because an RB doesn't have the right frame/isn't a 'workhorse' back doesn't mean that they can't be a viable FF RB starter.Reggie Bush fits in that category, in PPR especially.

 

[EBF]

If Charles doesn't have the frame to add 10 pounds, then who is a 200 pounder that does have the frame to add the weight? I'd like to see an example of a guy that needs to add the weight, and has the frame to do so.

One of my college roommates had a bodybuilding book that mentioned three different fundamental body types: ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph. There's some information on this stuff here:http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

The basic idea is that there are different body types and they all respond to weight training differently. This seems pretty intuitive. I'm guessing that we all have some acquaintances who gain muscle mass with ease and some who struggle to add bulk despite logging a lot of hours in the weight room. That's because gaining weight isn't simply a matter of will. If it were, every WR in the NFL would be bulked up like Terrell Owens. In reality, the reason few guys get that big is because few guys have the body type needed to accommodate that kind of muscle mass.

I look at guys like Chris Johnson, Darren McFadden, and Jamaal Charles and see classic examples of a lean frame with limited natural bulk. All three guys are muscular, yet none of them have the mass you look for in a pro RB. People who defend these guys when I use this argument are quick to point out that Clinton Portis gained a lot of weight after hitting the league. I'd argue that he's an exception.

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

So while I can't definitively say it's impossible that someone like Charles or McFadden will bulk up, I can say I'd much rather bet on the rule than bet on a player becoming an exception. Couple the long odds with my personal opinion that both guys are trapped in fatal frames and it's easy to understand why I consistently file them into the "unlikely to be a workhorse" category.

If you put so much focus on body frame, then why are you so high on Reggie Bush? He's got twig legs and has already headed down the road of can't run between the tackles.

Have you seen my hyping Reggie Bush lately?Bush's underwhelming performance is one of the things that made me realize the importance of BMI.

Just because an RB doesn't have the right frame/isn't a 'workhorse' back doesn't mean that they can't be a viable FF RB starter.Reggie Bush fits in that category, in PPR especially.

I'm aware that Reggie Bush is good in PPR. Yet by all accounts, he's been a mild-to-medium disappointment as an NFL player.

 

[offdee]

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

I get and agree with what you're saying but just pointing out that Kevin Jones played his junior year in college around 207lbs. NFL playing weight was 225lbs.

 

[EBF]

For every guy like Portis there are several guys who enter the league maxed out. Steven Jackson, Ronnie Brown, Kevin Jones, Laurence Maroney, Brian Westbrook, Marshawn Lynch, LaDainian Tomlinson, Frank Gore, and Ricky Williams. Most of these guys were early entries and few of them have gained significant body mass since entering the league. I think it's safe to say that most RB prospect WON'T gain a significant amount of weight after entering the NFL. That seems to be more common than guys who blow up overnight.

I get and agree with what you're saying but just pointing out that Kevin Jones played his junior year in college around 207lbs. NFL playing weight was 225lbs.

No, he had bulked up by the time he entered the NFL. Compare pictures of him when he was no. 7 to pictures of him when he was no. 25 at Tech. He had gained a lot of weight. Draftscout has him at 227 at the combine:http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=27378

Of course, their 40 time is totally off, but do a google search for Kevin Jones pro day and you'll see that he was 220+.

 

[AustinCowboy71]

Thanks for all the replys, this is just what I wanted to hear. I am sure more will be said once TC starts and we see a little in pre-season work. Not much love for Hester though huh? From what I heard they plan on using him a lot in SD and he was looking good, also seems like there isn't anyone else there to back up LT2. Another question on these guys is where would you consider drafting them in a rookie draft ? Are they even worth drafting or do you wait and try to pick them up on the WW?

Assuming 12 team, dynasty, and non-IDP...Charles is a late 1st round rookie pick.Choice is an early 3rd rounder.Hightower is late 3rd rounderThe rest are best left to WW fodder.IMO

personally, I got J.Stewart at 1.03, F.Jones at 1.04, Choice at 3.01, and Torain at 3.05... our draft was in May FWIW

 

[UnknownCoach]

Before Benson's release, Torain had argueably the best situation of any rookie. Denver had what I considered the weakest group of RBs in the league.

Slaton was drafted with the intent to be a third down back not a feature back. Previously reported from Houston. Sometimes such a player gets a bigger opportunity but dont expect it.

While KC hasnt said so, Charles doesnt look like a feature back. He has definate RBBC potential though.

Choice looks more like a feature back than any of those others you mentioned and is close on talent, but he's buried on the depth chart for the time being. Now if you own Barber or can afford the space, he's worth stashing.

Hightower has a little potential, but dont lift your hopes because of his situation. If you think Arizona is looking to him for their future, you are mistaken. Late round flyer but I wouldnt hesitate to dump him for someone else.

Hester is not a full time tailback. Best to ignore him altogether.

Omon probably wont be second on the depth chart , but Lynch does have issues that include two games in Canada.

I shouldnt even mention Shmitt