49ers and Warner talking contract (1 Viewer)

[Ghost of Bill Walsh]

Kurt Warner is visiting the 49ers todayand seeing what they have to offer. Well, for one, they don't have the receivers the Cardinals have. Not sure if that matters to Warner as he seems to be able to hit anyone. The Niners do have some young guys with potential in Jason Hill and Josh Morgan. Plus they just signed Brandon Jones. Another thing that concerns our chances of getting Warner are sacks. Kurt's on the other side of 35, which is the number of sacks the 49ers allowed last year, and not too sure he's interested in being put on his back that many times. The Cardinals allowed something like 15 sacks all year, less than half the amount San Fran allowed. They would definitely have to assure him the O-line's not gonna let him get sacked the way the QB did for the 49ers last year. Don't know if that's possible given their current O-line. While it's nice to think we could have Kurt Warner running our offense this year I still just think it's a ploy by his agent to try and get the Cards to up the money for Warner. He's wanting a 2 year deal I think. The 49ers should have enough cap money that they could pay him more than Arizona could/would want to. There again, the Cards gotta decide do they wanna go into '09 with Leinart as their QB. I still just believe it's a pipe dream that we're gonna have Kurt Warner as our QB next year but ya never know, stranger things have happened in the NFL. I'm sure Warner's gonna want the O-line strengthened up or get some vet players on the line. So, I'm holding on to a thread of hope that somehow, someway,before the week is over that we go into the 2009 season with Kurt Warner as our QB. Silly dream I guess, but I'll enjoy that possibility until Kurt says thanks but no thanks.

 

[Avery]

Only an organization like the Cardinals could have let this situation get this far.

They just went to the friggin' Superbowl and they are letting their future Hall of Fame QB who got them their stroll around the NFL looking at offer while they have Matt Leinert warming up on the sideline.

Ridiculous.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Kurt Warner is visiting the 49ers todayand seeing what they have to offer. Well, for one, they don't have the receivers the Cardinals have. Not sure if that matters to Warner as he seems to be able to hit anyone. The Niners do have some young guys with potential in Jason Hill and Josh Morgan. Plus they just signed Brandon Jones. Another thing that concerns our chances of getting Warner are sacks. Kurt's on the other side of 35, which is the number of sacks the 49ers allowed last year, and not too sure he's interested in being put on his back that many times. The Cardinals allowed something like 15 sacks all year, less than half the amount San Fran allowed. They would definitely have to assure him the O-line's not gonna let him get sacked the way the QB did for the 49ers last year. Don't know if that's possible given their current O-line. While it's nice to think we could have Kurt Warner running our offense this year I still just think it's a ploy by his agent to try and get the Cards to up the money for Warner. He's wanting a 2 year deal I think. The 49ers should have enough cap money that they could pay him more than Arizona could/would want to. There again, the Cards gotta decide do they wanna go into '09 with Leinart as their QB. I still just believe it's a pipe dream that we're gonna have Kurt Warner as our QB next year but ya never know, stranger things have happened in the NFL. I'm sure Warner's gonna want the O-line strengthened up or get some vet players on the line. So, I'm holding on to a thread of hope that somehow, someway,before the week is over that we go into the 2009 season with Kurt Warner as our QB. Silly dream I guess, but I'll enjoy that possibility until Kurt says thanks but no thanks.

While the 49ers o-line may indeed be worse than the Cards o-line, Warner's quick reads and release helped him avaoid alot of sacks.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Only an organization like the Cardinals could have let this situation get this far.They just went to the friggin' Superbowl and they are letting their future Hall of Fame QB who got them their stroll around the NFL looking at offer while they have Matt Leinert warming up on the sideline.Ridiculous.

As a life long Card fan this last season was awesome and now we have a Pro bowl QB that wants to stay and a ton of cap room.. So what does the front office do??? Let him be courted by a division rival over a couple mill......So far Cards let JJ and Antonio Smith walk have not addressed Boldin (michael clayton is making more than Boldin now) and really just seem content doing nothing but being cheap..I will have a hard time routing for the Cards if they let Warner go to the 49ers. I will but it's going to be hard.... I am soooo frustrated with Bidwills/Graves

 

[bucsbaby]

The Bucs should make Warner an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Sinrman]

The Bucs should make Warner an offer he can't refuse.

That and WR are really the two positions that we knock them on, and what seems to really have been holding them back from going deep into the playoffs for a number of years now. They had the defense, but their offense and the injuries they've absorbed, would really hurt them. Of course, now there are a LOT of ?? surrounding this team. Warner could only help though...

 

[azgroover]

I've gotta say the local Phoenix media is a little cocky in saying that there's no way Warner will sign with anyone besides the Cardinals. They speak about it as if it's a given he'll re-sign here. Same factors they were citing when Randy Johnson took a deal with the SF Giants...his family's here, he likes it here, he wouldn't want to pack up and move. We'll see.

 

[biggamer3]

I dont get the Cards, Warner stated he wanted to retire a Cardinal, the team is catered around his strengths, and they wouldnt budge from the 10M a year to appease the most important factor to the team?

 

[Buffaloes]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

 

[biggamer3]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

The Niners dont seem to have the same skills on offense for Kurt to want to go there.But he already has been to 3 SB and is HOF bound, maybe he just wants a final paycheck and go his merry way

 

[mggoilers]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

The Niners dont seem to have the same skills on offense for Kurt to want to go there.But he already has been to 3 SB and is HOF bound, maybe he just wants a final paycheck and go his merry way

The 49ers with Warner could win games and possibly the NFC West. Just get into the playoffs, and you never know.Warner has plans after playing, and money will help him accomplish after he is done playing

 

[Duke1948]

So far Cards let JJ and Antonio Smith walk have not addressed Boldin (michael clayton is making more than Boldin now) and really just seem content doing nothing but being cheap..

talk about ridiculous??

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Warner would excel in any warm climate or dome, and with a decent line (he doesn't need a great line with his quick release). With SF, he may not have the best offensive weapons, but he's got a much better back in Gore which will ultimately help the passing attack. Warner's accurate throws make Pope and Urban look like probowlers, so he should still put up decent numbers in SF with lesser receivers.

Warner strongly prefers to stay in ARZ but if he feels he's being disrespected, he'll look elsewhere. Think about all those situations he's been in where he was the QB but not in the team's plans, nor highly supported by the coaches (Giants, and ARZ until recently). After enduring all that adversity, he's all about the team's commitment to him -- and money talks. I genuinely believe that if someone puts up $14-15 mil a season, Warner will take the money.

I would have liked him in TEN...

 

[gianmarco]

If you let Warner go, welcome back to the cellar of the NFC West.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

If you let Warner go, welcome back to the cellar of the NFC West.

It will be more like 30-31-32 in power rankings. That will hurt alot.

 

[cstu]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

He's also a guy who knows he's taken two bottom-dwelling teams to the SB and probably thinks he can do the same in SF.

 

[Ghost of Bill Walsh]

Warner could conceivably sign with the 49ers just to spite the Cardinals after all he's said about wanting to retire a Cardinal, his family's there,he seems to like the warm weather and all that's standing in the way of getting a Cardinal deal done is a few mil. I could understand if he was younger and wanting tons of money, but he's probably only gonna play 2, 3 yrs. tops.What don't the Cards get about his deal. Yeah I know they have some other high priority guys to take care of but for craps sake, the guy just help get you to the superbowl. Is Leinart gonna be able to do that next year? Doubtful. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Kurt in a Niners uniform but the Cardinals are either stupid or think he really not worth a couple mil more for 2 yrs. Looks like Mr. Bill Bidwell has struck again. IIRC there's been several players leave Arizona because of the money thing and MR. Kurt Warner could very likely be the next one to go. While I'm a lifelong 49ers fan I can't stand the YORKS. They've mucked up this orginzation enough.Hopefully and/or maybe with Singletary on board they may change their philosophy a bit and think about football instead of the money that they covet so much. Hell, give us Kurt, we'll send you the Yorks , give them a bonus and see how long it takes Bidwell and the Yorks to completely destroy the Cardinals. I've heard the Cards are supposedly offering $23 MIL for 2 yrs. DON'T take it Kurt. We'll give you more than that, and probably throw in some extras you might want to finish your career in San Francisco. If his agent is using this as a ploy to get him more money it doesn't look like it's working as the Cardinals seem set on their offer and aren't going to budge. It'd be great to see Warner play the Cardinals twice a year and stick it to them.

 

[Avery]

Warner could conceivably sign with the 49ers just to spite the Cardinals after all he's said about wanting to retire a Cardinal, his family's there,he seems to like the warm weather and all that's standing in the way of getting a Cardinal deal done is a few mil. I could understand if he was younger and wanting tons of money, but he's probably only gonna play 2, 3 yrs. tops. What don't the Cards get about his deal. Yeah I know they have some other high priority guys to take care of but for craps sake, the guy just help get you to the superbowl. Is Leinart gonna be able to do that next year? Doubtful. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Kurt in a Niners uniform but the Cardinals are either stupid or think he really not worth a couple mil more for 2 yrs. Looks like Mr. Bill Bidwell has struck again. IIRC there's been several players leave Arizona because of the money thing and MR. Kurt Warner could very likely be the next one to go. While I'm a lifelong 49ers fan I can't stand the YORKS. They've mucked up this orginzation enough.Hopefully and/or maybe with Singletary on board they may change their philosophy a bit and think about football instead of the money that they covet so much. Hell, give us Kurt, we'll send you the Yorks , give them a bonus and see how long it takes Bidwell and the Yorks to completely destroy the Cardinals. I've heard the Cards are supposedly offering $23 MIL for 2 yrs. DON'T take it Kurt. We'll give you more than that, and probably throw in some extras you might want to finish your career in San Francisco. If his agent is using this as a ploy to get him more money it doesn't look like it's working as the Cardinals seem set on their offer and aren't going to budge. It'd be great to see Warner play the Cardinals twice a year and stick it to them.

Now isn't that easier to read?

 

[Ghost of Bill Walsh]

Warner could conceivably sign with the 49ers just to spite the Cardinals after all he's said about wanting to retire a Cardinal, his family's there,he seems to like the warm weather and all that's standing in the way of getting a Cardinal deal done is a few mil. I could understand if he was younger and wanting tons of money, but he's probably only gonna play 2, 3 yrs. tops. What don't the Cards get about his deal. Yeah I know they have some other high priority guys to take care of but for craps sake, the guy just help get you to the superbowl. Is Leinart gonna be able to do that next year? Doubtful. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Kurt in a Niners uniform but the Cardinals are either stupid or think he really not worth a couple mil more for 2 yrs. Looks like Mr. Bill Bidwell has struck again. IIRC there's been several players leave Arizona because of the money thing and MR. Kurt Warner could very likely be the next one to go. While I'm a lifelong 49ers fan I can't stand the YORKS. They've mucked up this orginzation enough.Hopefully and/or maybe with Singletary on board they may change their philosophy a bit and think about football instead of the money that they covet so much. Hell, give us Kurt, we'll send you the Yorks , give them a bonus and see how long it takes Bidwell and the Yorks to completely destroy the Cardinals. I've heard the Cards are supposedly offering $23 MIL for 2 yrs. DON'T take it Kurt. We'll give you more than that, and probably throw in some extras you might want to finish your career in San Francisco. If his agent is using this as a ploy to get him more money it doesn't look like it's working as the Cardinals seem set on their offer and aren't going to budge. It'd be great to see Warner play the Cardinals twice a year and stick it to them.

Now isn't that easier to read?

Yeah it is. Thanks a lot. You know us old guys get tired real easy. I'll make more effort next time to seperate my posts

 

[Walton Goggins]

The player rep for free agent Kurt Warner says his client will not be finalizing a deal with the 49ers tonight.

Warner is taking a physical, but agent Mark Bartelstein says "nothing is going to happen tonight." "He's going to have to sit down and talk to his wife and me," Bartelstein added. "We'll...figure out what to do from there."

Source: Santa Rosa Press Democrat

ESPN's Michael Smith reports that the Cardinals have no intentions of budging off their current two-year, $20 million offer to free agent Kurt Warner.

The 49ers, who flew Warner and his wife in on a private jet and brought them to their facility in a limo, are serious about signing him. Smith notes that Arizona has Karlos Dansby, Adrian Wilson, Anquan Boldin, and Darnell Dockett's contracts to worry about. They're not about to meet Warner's price.

Free agent Kurt Warner boarded a flight headed to San Francisco on Monday, as expected.

The 49ers have enlisted a private jet to fly Warner and his family in. The Cardinals and Warner's representatives haven't spoken since Saturday. "Things are definitely progressing (with the 49ers)," his agent said. "He's going there to decide if that's the right fit." San Francisco will have to top Arizona's offer of $20 million over two years. Warner wants $29 million.

If this is true, the Cards can't budge and give him 9mm more?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I originally sided with the Cards thinking that Kurt wasnt worth 15 million per year. Still don't but seeing as how their offer is around 11-12 million they might as well give him 3 million more and secure their QB. Especially after seeing the some of the clowns who have signed for 3 million per year. What are they giving up? They're drawing the line in the sand over the value of a crappy player.

 

[Avery]

There's a reason why the Cardinals and Lions of the world are who they are.

You can change the coaches, you can change the players but the Bidwell and the Fords just don't change.

Hey! Mr. Bidwell. Kurt Warner brought your team, the Arizona ####### Cardinals, to the ### #### superbowl! Pay the man what he wants! Oh. In case you forgot. This is what you have waiting in the wings for your pass oriented offense.

Seriously. This situation boggles the mind.

 

[bcr8f]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

If they lowball him he may be forced to take more money elsewhere. For someone like him I think he wants the money more for charity than personal needs, like Reggie White.

 

[SammyJankis]

There's a reason why the Cardinals and Lions of the world are who they are.

You can change the coaches, you can change the players but the Bidwell and the Fords just don't change.

Hey! Mr. Bidwell. Kurt Warner brought your team, the Arizona ####### Cardinals, to the ### #### superbowl! Pay the man what he wants! Oh. In case you forgot. This is what you have waiting in the wings for your pass oriented offense.

Seriously. This situation boggles the mind.

Your quote boggles the mind. The Lions were 0-16, the Cardinals made the Super Bowl. If going to the super bowl is your definition of failure, I'd hate to see your definition of success.The Cardinals have made wise moves in free agency and the draft the last couple of years, which is why they were in the Super Bowl this year. When you look at Haynesworth, and even more so the deals for guys like Foxworth, Brandon Jones and Michael Clayton, its safe to say that these teams are not making smart moves. Throwing big coin at this crop of free agents is the way to the bottom, not the top of the heap.

Should the Cardinals bring Warner back? Of course they should. But comparing the "market value" of some of the deals being signed isn't the right way to evaluate it. The Cards have made a fair deal to Warner and have Leinart waiting in the wings. Leinart is immature, but a talent no doubt and has played well in stretches. The immaturaty of Leinart is a valid concern. However, remember that Leinart and Warner were basically neck-and-neck throughout training camp, with Warner only pulling away through some more preseason play.

Yes, the Cardinals have cap space, but its misleading. Like all teams that overachieve, they have a long line of guys waiting to cash in. Does it make sense to pay Warner megabucks if that means letting Adrian Wilson, Karlos Dansby or Darnell Dockett walk out the door? The teams spending madly the first week in March have ended up losers of late. In fact, the Cardinals have only really signed two "big ticket" free agents the last couple of years: Edgerrin James and Oliver Ross. Neither worked out.

The "same old Cardinals" rhetoric is tired and lazy. To compare them to the Lions is laughable. I want to see the Cardinals extend Dansby and Wilson. I'd love to see them bring back Warner but not at the crazy money his agent wants. We'll see how this plays out. Warner may stay or he may go, but if he leaves it won't be because the Cards front office was asleep at the switch.

 

[SammyJankis]

Not to mention that Kurt will be 38 by opening day this year. Anyone want to post a list of successful quarterbacks 38+? Warren Moon and.... I'm sure there are a few, but its a short list.

Again, should the Cards bring Warner back? Yes. But paying him his asking price has a "negative expected value" to use a poker analogy. The Cards wouldn't be getting the "pot odds" to make the call. Not at that price.

 

[bryan215]

All part of Whiz's master plan.

Warner leaves and signs for 2 years 12-14 million per year.

Matt Leinart + the 30th pick + next years #1 for Jay Cutler plus Tony Sheffler.

Save around 5-10 million getting rid of Warner and ML plus we have a young QB for the next 5-10 years.

Resign Boldin, draft/sign RB,

Cutler/Boldin/Fitz/Breaston/Sheffler

 

[cstu]

Not to mention that Kurt will be 38 by opening day this year. Anyone want to post a list of successful quarterbacks 38+? Warren Moon and.... I'm sure there are a few, but its a short list.Again, should the Cards bring Warner back? Yes. But paying him his asking price has a "negative expected value" to use a poker analogy. The Cards wouldn't be getting the "pot odds" to make the call. Not at that price.

Here are the top 20 seasons by QB's 38 or older:

NAME 	        POS 	YR 	AGE 	EXP 	G 	CMP 	ATT 	PYD 	Y/A 	PTD 	INT 	FANT PT1	Warren Moon	qb	1995	39	12	16	377	606	4228	6.98	33	14	356.602	Brett Favre	qb	2007	38	17	16	356	535	4157	7.77	28	15	319.053	Warren Moon	qb	1997	41	14	15	313	528	3678	6.97	25	16	286.904	Warren Moon	qb	1994	38	11	15	371	601	4264	7.09	18	19	270.705	Brett Favre	qb	2008	39	18	16	343	522	3472	6.65	22	22	250.106	John Elway	qb	1998	38	16	13	210	356	2806	7.88	22	10	245.707	Fran Tarkenton	qb	1978	38	18	16	345	572	3468	6.06	25	32	239.808	Craig Morton	qb	1981	38	17	15	225	376	3195	8.50	21	14	238.559	Doug Flutie	qb	2001	39	16	16	294	521	3464	6.65	15	18	237.4010	Testaverde	qb	2004	41	18	16	297	495	3532	7.14	17	20	231.4011	Joe Montana	qb	1994	38	16	14	299	493	3283	6.66	16	9	227.8512	Phil Simms	qb	1993	39	15	16	247	400	3038	7.59	15	9	211.4013	Jeff Garcia	qb	2008	38	10	12	244	376	2712	7.21	12	6	204.4014	Testaverde	qb	2001	38	15	16	260	441	2752	6.24	15	14	187.1015	Dave Krieg	qb	1996	38	17	13	226	377	2278	6.04	14	12	167.1016	Brad Johnson	qb	2006	38	13	15	270	439	2750	6.26	9	15	166.7017	George Blanda	qb	1965	38	17	14	186	442	2542	5.75	20	30	166.5018	Jim Plunkett	qb	1986	39	16	10	133	252	1986	7.88	14	9	156.0019	Dan Marino	qb	1999	38	17	11	204	369	2448	6.63	12	17	147.8020	Doug Flutie	qb	2000	38	15	11	132	231	1700	7.36	8	3	141.10

 

[two_dollars]

Not to mention that Kurt will be 38 by opening day this year. Anyone want to post a list of successful quarterbacks 38+? Warren Moon and.... I'm sure there are a few, but its a short list.Again, should the Cards bring Warner back? Yes. But paying him his asking price has a "negative expected value" to use a poker analogy. The Cards wouldn't be getting the "pot odds" to make the call. Not at that price.

Scared money don't make money.

 

[Franchise Playa]

There's a reason why the Cardinals and Lions of the world are who they are.

You can change the coaches, you can change the players but the Bidwell and the Fords just don't change.

Hey! Mr. Bidwell. Kurt Warner brought your team, the Arizona ####### Cardinals, to the ### #### superbowl! Pay the man what he wants! Oh. In case you forgot. This is what you have waiting in the wings for your pass oriented offense.

Seriously. This situation boggles the mind.

Your quote boggles the mind. The Lions were 0-16, the Cardinals made the Super Bowl. If going to the super bowl is your definition of failure, I'd hate to see your definition of success.The Cardinals have made wise moves in free agency and the draft the last couple of years, which is why they were in the Super Bowl this year. When you look at Haynesworth, and even more so the deals for guys like Foxworth, Brandon Jones and Michael Clayton, its safe to say that these teams are not making smart moves. Throwing big coin at this crop of free agents is the way to the bottom, not the top of the heap.

Should the Cardinals bring Warner back? Of course they should. But comparing the "market value" of some of the deals being signed isn't the right way to evaluate it. The Cards have made a fair deal to Warner and have Leinart waiting in the wings. Leinart is immature, but a talent no doubt and has played well in stretches. The immaturaty of Leinart is a valid concern. However, remember that Leinart and Warner were basically neck-and-neck throughout training camp, with Warner only pulling away through some more preseason play.

Yes, the Cardinals have cap space, but its misleading. Like all teams that overachieve, they have a long line of guys waiting to cash in. Does it make sense to pay Warner megabucks if that means letting Adrian Wilson, Karlos Dansby or Darnell Dockett walk out the door? The teams spending madly the first week in March have ended up losers of late. In fact, the Cardinals have only really signed two "big ticket" free agents the last couple of years: Edgerrin James and Oliver Ross. Neither worked out.

The "same old Cardinals" rhetoric is tired and lazy. To compare them to the Lions is laughable. I want to see the Cardinals extend Dansby and Wilson. I'd love to see them bring back Warner but not at the crazy money his agent wants. We'll see how this plays out. Warner may stay or he may go, but if he leaves it won't be because the Cards front office was asleep at the switch.

You aren't familiar with how the Bidwell's work are you? They don't like to pay their people.....they are more than happy to let anyone walk. The only reason they spent any money in the recent years is due to the new stadium. I have lived in AZ all my life and watched them since they got here let player after player walk....I won't be the least bit surprised by any cheap/lowballing offers they pull out.The "same old Cards" is right when it comes to paying their players. As the great football analyst Emmitt Smith once said "You cannot change the stripes of a leopard"

 

[twitch]

Kurt Warner wants $29 mil from the Cardinals? Seriously? Wow. That's very surprising to hear. I would have thought around 20mil would have been getting it done. He's gotta be bright enough to realize, if he's still trying to win, that every player needs to make a small sacrifice to keep the body of a winning team intact. I mean, this wont be the last contract the man will every be earning. Perhaps as an NFL player. But he's got the look of someone who can be a top flight NFL broadcaster for years to come. If Phil friggin' Simms can do it while pretty much butchering the English language at every turn, so can Kurt Warner.

So, if he's really holding out for that kind of dough, Ive only got one thing to say. "Hello, Matt Leinart."

 

[•TheRealMcCoy]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

I couldnt agree more!! HE needs Fitz/Boldin and bunch!! As a Rams fan, he NEEDED Faulk/Holt/Bruce/Hakim/etc in the glory days of 99-2002 to really do well! Warner is a great QB, it just doesn't make sense for him to leave at this point??

 

[Sinrman]

The player rep for free agent Kurt Warner says his client will not be finalizing a deal with the 49ers tonight.

Warner is taking a physical, but agent Mark Bartelstein says "nothing is going to happen tonight." "He's going to have to sit down and talk to his wife and me," Bartelstein added. "We'll...figure out what to do from there."

Source: Santa Rosa Press Democrat

ESPN's Michael Smith reports that the Cardinals have no intentions of budging off their current two-year, $20 million offer to free agent Kurt Warner.

The 49ers, who flew Warner and his wife in on a private jet and brought them to their facility in a limo, are serious about signing him. Smith notes that Arizona has Karlos Dansby, Adrian Wilson, Anquan Boldin, and Darnell Dockett's contracts to worry about. They're not about to meet Warner's price.

Free agent Kurt Warner boarded a flight headed to San Francisco on Monday, as expected.

The 49ers have enlisted a private jet to fly Warner and his family in. The Cardinals and Warner's representatives haven't spoken since Saturday. "Things are definitely progressing (with the 49ers)," his agent said. "He's going there to decide if that's the right fit." San Francisco will have to top Arizona's offer of $20 million over two years. Warner wants $29 million.

If this is true, the Cards can't budge and give him 9mm more?

Easier said than done. $9 mil more is a big big difference. That's almost like tacking on another year, and for a QB of that age, that's very very risky.Obviously Warner wants a 2 year deal, and wants something in the $14-$15 mil/year range, and AZ is willing to give $10 mil/year. They are definitely far off. Though I don't see the 49ers giving him $29 mil, I could see them trying to trounce a division opponent by offering $25 or $26 mil/year.

Steal Warner away from the Cardinals? Smart move IMO!

 

[Bayhawks]

While the 49ers o-line may indeed be worse than the Cards o-line, Warner's quick reads and release helped him avaoid alot of sacks.

That's just not true. I've heard and read it a lot on message boards during (and after) the Cards playoff run. It's just not true.Warner does have a quick release, but it's not his reads and release that prevented a lot of sacks in 2008, IT'S THE PASSING OFFENSE HE WAS RUNNING! Since it called for more quick reads/releases, he was able to use more 3 & 5 step drops and get rid of the ball before the pressure got there. When he has been in offenses that call for more 7 step drops and longer routes to develop, he has been sacked a lot.

1999 (Rams)-StL gave up the 6 fewest sacks that year. Remember that year Vermeil was the HC, Martz was a young (not yet known as an offensive "genius") and Warner was unknown. They had a good offensive line, and surprised everyone that year.

2000 (Rams)-StL gave up the 11th MOST sacks that year. Martz had become the HC, and the offense became much more vertical, usually only 5 blockers, allowing 5 receivers to run routes. In this offense, Warner's "quick read/release" didn't prevent many sacks.

2001 (Rams)-Stl gave up the 13th MOST sacks this year. Same offense, similar results

2002-2003 (Rams) Warner shared, and then gave way to Bulger. I didn't bother trying to break out which QB was sacked each play (I don't have that much time)

2004 (NYG) NY gave up the 2nd MOST sacks this year. Warner started 10 games, Eli 6. Warner gave up an average of 3.9 sacks/game, Eli gave up an average of slightly over 2 sacks/game. Once again, without an offense based on short drops/quick throws, Warner gets sacked a lot.

2005 (Ari) Before Whisenhunt came to town, Ari gave up the 8th MOST sacks. Warner started 10 of the games, and got sacked an average of 2.3 times a game.

2006 (Ari) Warner only started 7 games, b/c they tried to give the job to Lienhart.

2007 (Ari) Whisenhunt is here, and the offense has been tweaked to his liking. The Cards give up the 8th FEWEST sacks this year. Go back and look at the O-line and the passing plays. The O-line is better at pass-blocking than run-blocking, and there are more 3 and 5 step drops used.

2008 (Ari) Same offense as 07, similar results. 11th FEWEST Sacks given up.

The popular belief is that Warner's "quick reads and release" are what allowed the Cards to avoid sacks in 2008, but the facts show that Warner is a smart QB who will hit an open receiver IF HE HAS A CHANCE. When he has to make longer drops and hold on to the ball while routes open up, he gets sacked just as much as other QBs. He has averaged 2.2 sacks/game in his career, which would equate to about 35 sacks in a full season. Look at the stats-35 sacks allowed would put an NFL team anywhere from 13-18 worst in sacks allowed in a given year.

Warner is a great, smart, strong-armed QB; but his quick release and reads didn't avoid sacks last year, the drops, passing routes, and O-line did.

 

[thehornet]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

I couldnt agree more!! HE needs Fitz/Boldin and bunch!! As a Rams fan, he NEEDED Faulk/Holt/Bruce/Hakim/etc in the glory days of 99-2002 to really do well! Warner is a great QB, it just doesn't make sense for him to leave at this point??

Let's get one thing straight. He doesn't NEED Fitz and Boldin. He's a phenomenal QB regardless headed for the hall of fame. Fitz and Boldin make him an elite fantasy option. Even if he he stays in Zona, he sholdnt realistically think they are getting back to the Superbowl. It was a fluke, plain and simple. The man deserves to get paid and if it means going to San Francisco, then he should do it.

 

[Ozymandias]

Anyone else think Warner needs the Cards as much as they need him? He strikes me as a guy who wants to win, not so much as a guy who will take the highest offer. If he wants to win, I don't see a better situation than the one he is in right now. I could be way off base here though.

If they lowball him he may be forced to take more money elsewhere. For someone like him I think he wants the money more for charity than personal needs, like Reggie White.

I'm sure that Warner, like so many of us, has seen his personal wealth take a huge dive in the current market. Other that throwing the football, his talent appears to be stacking shelves at the supermarket. I can't blame him for wanting to make sure he can maintain his standard of living.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

While the 49ers o-line may indeed be worse than the Cards o-line, Warner's quick reads and release helped him avaoid alot of sacks.

That's just not true. I've heard and read it a lot on message boards during (and after) the Cards playoff run. It's just not true.Warner does have a quick release, but it's not his reads and release that prevented a lot of sacks in 2008, IT'S THE PASSING OFFENSE HE WAS RUNNING! Since it called for more quick reads/releases, he was able to use more 3 & 5 step drops and get rid of the ball before the pressure got there. When he has been in offenses that call for more 7 step drops and longer routes to develop, he has been sacked a lot.

1999 (Rams)-StL gave up the 6 fewest sacks that year. Remember that year Vermeil was the HC, Martz was a young (not yet known as an offensive "genius") and Warner was unknown. They had a good offensive line, and surprised everyone that year.

2000 (Rams)-StL gave up the 11th MOST sacks that year. Martz had become the HC, and the offense became much more vertical, usually only 5 blockers, allowing 5 receivers to run routes. In this offense, Warner's "quick read/release" didn't prevent many sacks.

2001 (Rams)-Stl gave up the 13th MOST sacks this year. Same offense, similar results

2002-2003 (Rams) Warner shared, and then gave way to Bulger. I didn't bother trying to break out which QB was sacked each play (I don't have that much time)

2004 (NYG) NY gave up the 2nd MOST sacks this year. Warner started 10 games, Eli 6. Warner gave up an average of 3.9 sacks/game, Eli gave up an average of slightly over 2 sacks/game. Once again, without an offense based on short drops/quick throws, Warner gets sacked a lot.

2005 (Ari) Before Whisenhunt came to town, Ari gave up the 8th MOST sacks. Warner started 10 of the games, and got sacked an average of 2.3 times a game.

2006 (Ari) Warner only started 7 games, b/c they tried to give the job to Lienhart.

2007 (Ari) Whisenhunt is here, and the offense has been tweaked to his liking. The Cards give up the 8th FEWEST sacks this year. Go back and look at the O-line and the passing plays. The O-line is better at pass-blocking than run-blocking, and there are more 3 and 5 step drops used.

2008 (Ari) Same offense as 07, similar results. 11th FEWEST Sacks given up.

The popular belief is that Warner's "quick reads and release" are what allowed the Cards to avoid sacks in 2008, but the facts show that Warner is a smart QB who will hit an open receiver IF HE HAS A CHANCE. When he has to make longer drops and hold on to the ball while routes open up, he gets sacked just as much as other QBs. He has averaged 2.2 sacks/game in his career, which would equate to about 35 sacks in a full season. Look at the stats-35 sacks allowed would put an NFL team anywhere from 13-18 worst in sacks allowed in a given year.

Warner is a great, smart, strong-armed QB; but his quick release and reads didn't avoid sacks last year, the drops, passing routes, and O-line did.

So wasn't Warner able to run that type of offense because of his quick reads and release? In SF under Martz the sacks were more a product of the blocking schemes (or lack thereof) and the longer routes preferred by Martz. So yes you are correct, but that doesn't make what I said "just not true". Warner has no mobility so sure he'll be a sitting duck under certain schemes, but he can help make that up with his experience and quick release.

The sack numbers last year in SF were under (guess what?), a Mike Martz scheme. Martz was let go by Singletary, likely in large part b/c Singletary doesn't want a scheme like that. My guess is a conservative coach like Singletary will not be exposing his QB to major hits and turneovers that come with downfield strikes, but will rather rely on a shorter passing game.

 

[Bayhawks]

So wasn't Warner able to run that type of offense because of his quick reads and release?

In SF under Martz the sacks were more a product of the blocking schemes (or lack thereof) and the longer routes preferred by Martz. So yes you are correct, but that doesn't make what I said "just not true". Warner has no mobility so sure he'll be a sitting duck under certain schemes, but he can help make that up with his experience and quick release.

The sack numbers last year in SF were under (guess what?), a Mike Martz scheme. Martz was let go by Singletary, likely in large part b/c Singletary doesn't want a scheme like that. My guess is a conservative coach like Singletary will not be exposing his QB to major hits and turneovers that come with downfield strikes, but will rather rely on a shorter passing game.

Actually, it does make it not true. You said his quick reads and release allowed him to avoid sacks. What allowed him to avoid sacks was the drops and timing of the pass routes. If he was required to take a 7-step drop and allow his receivers 3+ seconds to get out of their breaks, his quick read/release would be irrelevant. I never posted that he would be unsuccessful in SF. I was just discussing the misconception that Warner doesn't get sacked because of his release. If SF (or any other team he might go to) uses an offense similar to Arizona's (that doesn't focus on long-developing routes), then Warner can be successful.

 

[Avery]

There's a reason why the Cardinals and Lions of the world are who they are.

You can change the coaches, you can change the players but the Bidwell and the Fords just don't change.

Hey! Mr. Bidwell. Kurt Warner brought your team, the Arizona ####### Cardinals, to the ### #### superbowl! Pay the man what he wants! Oh. In case you forgot. This is what you have waiting in the wings for your pass oriented offense.

Seriously. This situation boggles the mind.

Your quote boggles the mind. The Lions were 0-16, the Cardinals made the Super Bowl. If going to the super bowl is your definition of failure, I'd hate to see your definition of success.

It boggles your mind that someone has the audacity to claim the the Cardinals ownership might not be top notch and the team doesn't have a great history of success? Really?!?!? That boggles the mind?I give the Cardinals tons of credit for last year. Hell, I even rooted for them in the Superbowl (albeit quietly because my girlfriend is a huge Steelers fan ). I don't know how you inferred that I said going to the Superbowl constitutes a failure. It was clearly a big success.

The problem is when you have ownership that does not have a track record that shows a commitment to excellence, those successes comes around about twice a century.

 

[Chachi]

Cardinals up offer to Warner to $23 million

According to NFL Network, the Arizona Cardinals, clearly worried by free agent quarterback Kurt Warner's trip to San Francisco, have increased their offer to $23 million over two years. This is an increase of $3 million compared to their original offer, but still shy of agent Mark Bartelstein's contract demands.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So wasn't Warner able to run that type of offense because of his quick reads and release?

In SF under Martz the sacks were more a product of the blocking schemes (or lack thereof) and the longer routes preferred by Martz. So yes you are correct, but that doesn't make what I said "just not true". Warner has no mobility so sure he'll be a sitting duck under certain schemes, but he can help make that up with his experience and quick release.

The sack numbers last year in SF were under (guess what?), a Mike Martz scheme. Martz was let go by Singletary, likely in large part b/c Singletary doesn't want a scheme like that. My guess is a conservative coach like Singletary will not be exposing his QB to major hits and turneovers that come with downfield strikes, but will rather rely on a shorter passing game.

Actually, it does make it not true. You said his quick reads and release allowed him to avoid sacks. What allowed him to avoid sacks was the drops and timing of the pass routes. If he was required to take a 7-step drop and allow his receivers 3+ seconds to get out of their breaks, his quick read/release would be irrelevant. I never posted that he would be unsuccessful in SF. I was just discussing the misconception that Warner doesn't get sacked because of his release. If SF (or any other team he might go to) uses an offense similar to Arizona's (that doesn't focus on long-developing routes), then Warner can be successful.

Because he was unsuccessful in St. Louis where they did focus on long developing routes, as well as keeping in limited blockers?

 

[Jason Wood]

Cardinals up offer to Warner to $23 millionAccording to NFL Network, the Arizona Cardinals, clearly worried by free agent quarterback Kurt Warner's trip to San Francisco, have increased their offer to $23 million over two years. This is an increase of $3 million compared to their original offer, but still shy of agent Mark Bartelstein's contract demands.

Seems like an odd alteration. Almost like a house negotiation...you don't want to counter right in the middle because you feel your first offer was "more than fair" but then you run the risk of the seller being insulted and walking [granted, this analogy isn't very apropos in today's toxic real estate market].

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Link

Warner's new proposal

Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner enjoyed his visit Monday to San Francisco, but his heart remains in the Valley, according to his agent.

So Mark Bartelstein made another contract proposal to the Cardinals on Tuesday. The 2-year, $23 million proposal includes $12 million in guarantees and is less than what the 49ers were offering, Bartelstein said.

Warner also instructed Bartelstein to tell the Cardinals that he would give up $1 million in each year of the deal if the team re-signed receiver Anquan Boldin.

“It’s a home run for the team,” Bartelstein said. “It’s much less than we can get on the market. We’re hoping we’re going to get a ‘yes.’”

The Cardinals had not yet responded to the offer and team officials were not immediately available for comment.

The deal is structured to give Warner some security in the second year, with the $12 in guarantees split between the two years.

The Cardinals have been offering $20 million over two years with $10 million guaranteed, all in the first year of the contract. Warner’s concern is that structure would make it easier for the team to release him in the second year of the deal.

By guaranteeing $6 million in the second year, the Cardinals would be less likely to part ways with Warner, who turns 38 this summer.

Some news reports had the Cardinals increasing the offer to $23 million, but Bartelstein said the additional money came through incentives, not salary or bonuses.

“They would have to get to the Super Bowl for Kurt to receive that,” Bartelstein said.

Warner and his wife Brenda enjoyed their trip to the 49ers facility, and Bartelstein lauded the 49ers.

“He really had a great visit,” Bartelstein said. “It really went well and it has really open his eyes. But Kurt’s heart is still here (in Arizona).”

 

[ClownDogs]

Link

Warner's new proposal

Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner enjoyed his visit Monday to San Francisco, but his heart remains in the Valley, according to his agent.

So Mark Bartelstein made another contract proposal to the Cardinals on Tuesday. The 2-year, $23 million proposal includes $12 million in guarantees and is less than what the 49ers were offering, Bartelstein said.

Warner also instructed Bartelstein to tell the Cardinals that he would give up $1 million in each year of the deal if the team re-signed receiver Anquan Boldin.

“It’s a home run for the team,” Bartelstein said. “It’s much less than we can get on the market. We’re hoping we’re going to get a ‘yes.’”

The Cardinals had not yet responded to the offer and team officials were not immediately available for comment.

The deal is structured to give Warner some security in the second year, with the $12 in guarantees split between the two years.

The Cardinals have been offering $20 million over two years with $10 million guaranteed, all in the first year of the contract. Warner’s concern is that structure would make it easier for the team to release him in the second year of the deal.

By guaranteeing $6 million in the second year, the Cardinals would be less likely to part ways with Warner, who turns 38 this summer.

Some news reports had the Cardinals increasing the offer to $23 million, but Bartelstein said the additional money came through incentives, not salary or bonuses.

“They would have to get to the Super Bowl for Kurt to receive that,” Bartelstein said.

Warner and his wife Brenda enjoyed their trip to the 49ers facility, and Bartelstein lauded the 49ers.

“He really had a great visit,” Bartelstein said. “It really went well and it has really open his eyes. But Kurt’s heart is still here (in Arizona).”

ETA: Didn't see the sentence saying he would take off 1mil if they made Boldin happy.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Only an organization like the Cardinals could have let this situation get this far.They just went to the friggin' Superbowl and they are letting their future Hall of Fame QB who got them their stroll around the NFL looking at offer while they have Matt Leinert warming up on the sideline.Ridiculous.

In their own division, no less.Like I said before the SB, years from now we'll look back at that one year the Cardinals somehow made a run, then faded back into obscurity. Warner might as well finish his career somewhere else that has a commitment to winning.

 

[Jason Wood]

I have to give Warner credit, he's doing everything possible to engender goodwill. If this deal falls through, Arizona is going to have a lot of explaining to do. Here's a guy who had an MVP type year, openly wanting to return, and willing to take a $1mm per annum haircut if it gets their 2nd best offensive player back into the fold. That's great stuff.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Sounds like Warner and the Cards are at a nearly identical level right now. Be surprised if he's not signed by the end of the day.

 

[Ghost of Bill Walsh]

Well, I guess it's all gonna come down to what Brenda wants to do.You married guys know if you don't keep the little woman happy you pay for it and pay for it until it's righted. I honestly believe Kurt wants to stat in Arizona and I can't blame him. He's got good receivers even if Boldin's gone. I think Breaston and Urban would fill in ok.He won't get the numbers with those guys if Boldin stays but it's not about the numbers it's about getting to the playoffs and trying to get back to the SB. Every year people kept saying is this the year the Cardinals finally put it together. Well, last year they did and nearly won a superbowl. Does that even register with Bill Bidwell?

The 49ers signed Brandon Jones who I think can be a decent receiver for the niners. He'll be 27 in Oct. and is 6.3". I think he'll turn out better than Bryant Johnson had he stayed. They've got 2 young guys, Jason Hill and Josh Morgan, who they think are gonna be good.Doubt any of the 3 comes close to Fitzgerald but I think it's 3 guys Kurt Warner can work with. Is it really all about the money for Kurt? Yes, he's earned to be a top paid QB but for a couple of mil look at the different situations he'd be in. We know Bidwell has a track record of not paying guys and they walk, can't blame them. Now Warner helps take them to the SB and they don't want to pay him? Don't understand it. I hope Singletary talks Kurt and Brenda into to coming to the 49ers. He probably won't get to the SB this year or at all while he's here but he may be happier playing for the Niners.

 

[JamesTheScot]

So wasn't Warner able to run that type of offense because of his quick reads and release?

In SF under Martz the sacks were more a product of the blocking schemes (or lack thereof) and the longer routes preferred by Martz. So yes you are correct, but that doesn't make what I said "just not true". Warner has no mobility so sure he'll be a sitting duck under certain schemes, but he can help make that up with his experience and quick release.

The sack numbers last year in SF were under (guess what?), a Mike Martz scheme. Martz was let go by Singletary, likely in large part b/c Singletary doesn't want a scheme like that. My guess is a conservative coach like Singletary will not be exposing his QB to major hits and turneovers that come with downfield strikes, but will rather rely on a shorter passing game.

Actually, it does make it not true. You said his quick reads and release allowed him to avoid sacks. What allowed him to avoid sacks was the drops and timing of the pass routes. If he was required to take a 7-step drop and allow his receivers 3+ seconds to get out of their breaks, his quick read/release would be irrelevant. I never posted that he would be unsuccessful in SF. I was just discussing the misconception that Warner doesn't get sacked because of his release. If SF (or any other team he might go to) uses an offense similar to Arizona's (that doesn't focus on long-developing routes), then Warner can be successful.

Because he was unsuccessful in St. Louis where they did focus on long developing routes, as well as keeping in limited blockers?

I think what Bayhawks is saying is that Warner's release and read speeds aren't anything special.I have also scratched my head when people talk about his quick reads and his quick release. I think he reads well, in that he sees what's really going on and isn't fooled like some QB's are and then makes good decisions about where the ball should go. He's also accurate when he has time to go through his motion and he likewise throws flat enough and deep enough with that accuracy. Those are definitely assets and set him above a lot of other NFL QB's. But that's actually very different than saying he is superior to other QB's in his ability to QUICKLY read and then QUICKLY get his throws off.

In fact, I'd say the book on Warner says that if you can get pressure to him (past his blockers), he lacks the quickness to buy extra time, work outside the pocket or get his throw off when someone has him in the grasp.

That's why the short drops work, because the scheme itself does a better job of keeping the pressure off of him rather than requiring him to use his own athletic ability to avoid it.