49ers (1 Viewer)

[MLBrandow]

okay, for starters, hopefully we all agree that SF is terrible, and likely will finish last place again this year.

But just how far away do you think they are from becoming a) a respectable team, b) a playoff team, c) a championship-caliber team?

I really like Nolan, although I am not sure I buy into the "3-year plan" for him. I feel like this team is so under-talented that it may take 5 years (that would be '09) for them to really resurface as an upper-tier team.

Discuss.

 

[Otis]

Do not underestimate this offense. I think they have some talented young pieces in play and an offensive coordinator in Turner who will know how best to use them. Could be one of my favorite sleeper offenses overall heading into this season (though they may still be another year away from being effective).

Defensively, lord only knows.

 

[MLBrandow]

Ironically, I feel the opposite. I feel like the defense might be the sleeper to finish 5+ spots ahead of where people slot them, but who knows.

I think Smith was a bad pick with Rattay and I also thought Davis was a bad pick with Johnson. They still have a bad OL, and need to fix that first.

Would love some 9er homer insight, but I'm not sure they show their faces around here much anymore

 

[CalBear]

The team will not be respectable until the ownership changes. Pretty much every decision the team has made in the past four years has been bad, and they show no signs of changing their pattern.

 

[MLBrandow]

The team will not be respectable until the ownership changes. Pretty much every decision the team has made in the past four years has been bad, and they show no signs of changing their pattern.

You really feel that way? Is Nolan actually in control? I think he'll be a good coach, but I don't believe either of his 1st rounders were smart picks.

 

[Interseptopus]

a) 3 more years to build a respectable team

b) 5 more years to build a playoff team- In 4 years Arizona will be on tops of the division, Seattle will be average without Hasselbeck and Alexander, and STL is close to being in rebuild mode already...

c) championship team... not until Alex Smith is 30... They will need to sign or draft a stud RB, get him some kind of WR threat other than Davis, and build that D. So what is that, 8 years?

 

[BoltBacker]

Two years.

I think I'm one of the few sport fans that give all first year head coaches and starting QB's in their rookie year a mulligan. I think both Nolan and Smith will lead SF to the playoffs eventually. In the NFL you can go from laughing stock to the penthouse faster than in any other sport because of the hard salary cap and so much FA movement each offseason.

Of course it will certainly help when SEA's roster gets too old to dominate that division. That's closer than most people think. Jones/Hasselbeck/Alexander don't have more than a couple of years left in the tank.

 

[Z-Dog]

How far they are depends on Alex Smith. If he is a good QB who went through a tough adjustment, the could be .500 this year. People forget that the distance between a bad team and a good team is small - the Jets went from the AFC championship game to the scrap heap largely on the basis of three injuries - QB, C, and RB.

If Alex Smith is a bust, they could spend the next 3-4 years coming to terms with that, and then they have to identify another QB. Could be a long time in the jungle for them. I suspect that they will be much better than most peopel expect, and they could be sniffing around the playoffs by next year. I don't know how many one- and two-year turnarounds it will take for people to realize that you're never as bad as the press clippings.

 

[BoltBacker]

c) championship team... not until Alex Smith is 30... They will need to sign or draft a stud RB, get him some kind of WR threat other than Davis, and build that D. So what is that, 8 years?

Are you kidding? Four seasons ago DAL, CIN, KC and CAR were all finished last in their division. I've heard all of them mentioned as Superbowl contenders.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do not underestimate this offense.

In describing them as "terrible", I think he actually over-rated them.

 

[Otis]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

 

[urbanhack]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

Thoughts on Frank Gore?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

If Smith is not horrible, this offense will be way underrated. Frank Gore could be a top 10 back this year.

 

[Otis]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

 

[Otis]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

Thoughts on Frank Gore?

Well documented.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

OK Otis. I'll bite.I can't think of a single parallel you can draw between those two offenses that I would buy. Smith isn't even close to what Kitna was in that offense, much less Carson Palmer. I haven't even seen anything from him yet that leads me to think he can begin to read a defense. He also doesn't come from a pro-style collegiate offense, as Palmer did. Lengthen the learning curve that much more. Rudi Johnson reeled off something like 10 TDs and nearly 1,000 yards the year before that offense even developed. While a healthy Gore may have that potential, he has given no indication he's capable of staying healthy long enough to find out. Nevermind actually producing at that level.Antonio Bryant does have some talent. I'll give him that. But I hope he's not your Chad Johnson. And please don't tell me Arnaz Battle is playing the role of TJ Alphabet in this offensive sitcom, 'cause it's going to take a LOT of selling to get me to pay $1,000 for that $2 whore.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I will grant you Vernon Davis, obviously, as he should become the TE the Bengals lack.

 

[5Rings]

okay, for starters, hopefully we all agree that SF is terrible, and likely will finish last place again this year.

Agreed

But just how far away do you think they are from becoming a) a respectable team Best case scenario (which is on Alex Smith's development) end of this season, most likely next year b) a playoff team 2 years, c) a championship-caliber team No idea. I'd hope 3-4 years, but I'd put that on 1) Smith's development, 2) a new stadium, and 3) good luck. lots of it

 

[5Rings]

The team will not be respectable until the ownership changes. Pretty much every decision the team has made in the past four years has been bad, and they show no signs of changing their pattern.

I thought this thread was about the Niners, not the Raiders.

 

[Otis]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

OK Otis. I'll bite.I can't think of a single parallel you can draw between those two offenses that I would buy. Smith isn't even close to what Kitna was in that offense, much less Carson Palmer. I haven't even seen anything from him yet that leads me to think he can begin to read a defense. He also doesn't come from a pro-style collegiate offense, as Palmer did. Lengthen the learning curve that much more. Rudi Johnson reeled off something like 10 TDs and nearly 1,000 yards the year before that offense even developed. While a healthy Gore may have that potential, he has given no indication he's capable of staying healthy long enough to find out. Nevermind actually producing at that level.Antonio Bryant does have some talent. I'll give him that. But I hope he's not your Chad Johnson. And please don't tell me Arnaz Battle is playing the role of TJ Alphabet in this offensive sitcom, 'cause it's going to take a LOT of selling to get me to pay $1,000 for that $2 whore.

You're being awful literal, but I'm game. My post was initially a suggestion that the laughing stock offenses in the NFL can very quickly turn things around with the right personnel, and people in fantasy circles sometimes act as though Chad Johnson and Carson Palmer have just always been there.I remember a time when that offense was a joke. Chad Johnson was coming into his own as one of the most exciting yong receivers in the game, but only did it for about half a season in 2003. Corey Dillon was still Corey Dillon -- an exciting but inconsistent runner on a losing team. Kitna was a journeyman who hadn't done much until then and didn't have much to work with. Marvin Lewis arrived as the savior. He was an exciting new head coach with past success and promise to turn things around. They draft a franchise QB, a new young back emerges in Rudi, CJ solidifies himself as a legit WR1 in the NFL, the defense comes together, the offensive line improves, and suddenly you've got a legit contender.The parallels aren't perfect, as I said above, but I see some. Enter Nolan and enter a legit offensive coordinator in Norv Turner. A new franchise QB in Alex Smith who is arguably not Carson Palmer but who I refuse to believe is as bad as he looked last year (I assume that even a great college QB will be awful his first 2 years in the NFL, as a rule). Frank Gore emerging as a guy who I think will be a legit young stud NFL back. Additionally, they have a threat at TE that the Bengals did not even come close to in Vernon Davis, an exciting young prospect with a boatload of talent who should help to relieve some pressure on Alex Smith and open things up underneath. Antonio Bryant enters the picture as a very talented and previously mis-utilized receiving threat, and, by all accounts, Battle is a very legit threat on the opposite side of the field. Perhaps most importantly, they showed a commitment to rebuilding the O-line this year by bringing in Larry Allen. Ultimately, it is a team rebuilding and an offense on the rise. I like the young talent, I like the offseason acquisitions, and I think that if Alex Smith can put things together and gain some confidence, at least enough so to keep defenses honest and allow Gore and Davis to get their jobs done underneath, and if Bryant can at least do an adequate job of keeping defenses honest over the top, you could have the workings of a strong offense.Would I bank on it? Maybe not. But it would not surprise me one bit.

 

[Otis]

I will grant you Vernon Davis, obviously, as he should become the TE the Bengals lack.

Yup. See my post above. I think he could be the equalizing factor at WR/TE between the two teams. Folks are apparently expecting him to be that good. We'll see.

 

[Otis]

By the way, I consider the departure of Brandon Lloyd to be another upgrade. He was nothing but wasted space on the field. He made some pretty catches and is a talented athlete, but he is not much of a football player.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

OK Otis. I'll bite.I can't think of a single parallel you can draw between those two offenses that I would buy. Smith isn't even close to what Kitna was in that offense, much less Carson Palmer. I haven't even seen anything from him yet that leads me to think he can begin to read a defense. He also doesn't come from a pro-style collegiate offense, as Palmer did. Lengthen the learning curve that much more. Rudi Johnson reeled off something like 10 TDs and nearly 1,000 yards the year before that offense even developed. While a healthy Gore may have that potential, he has given no indication he's capable of staying healthy long enough to find out. Nevermind actually producing at that level.Antonio Bryant does have some talent. I'll give him that. But I hope he's not your Chad Johnson. And please don't tell me Arnaz Battle is playing the role of TJ Alphabet in this offensive sitcom, 'cause it's going to take a LOT of selling to get me to pay $1,000 for that $2 whore.

Ultimately, it is a team rebuilding and an offense on the rise. But it would not surprise me one bit.

Of course it's an offense on the rise. Even a dead body bounces when it hits the bottom of a canyon.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It would surprise me a lot. But I'm not sure I buy Smith as an NFL QB any time soon (Think more Steve McNair than Carson Palmer), which makes the other pieces largely irrelevant. At least you made it more believable than I might have imagined.

 

[5Rings]

By the way, I consider the departure of Brandon Lloyd to be another upgrade. He was nothing but wasted space on the field. He made some pretty catches and is a talented athlete, but he is not much of a football player.

Solid WR3.

Bryant could become the WR1 this team has lacked since TO left.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the team will be competitive this year. I didn't like the Smith pick, and he hasn't been great in camp, but the rest of the team--especially the OL, O skill spots, and secondary--should be far better than last year.

 

[Otis]

For those who think it's absurd, by the way, see the Bengals about 2 years ago.

OK Otis. I'll bite.I can't think of a single parallel you can draw between those two offenses that I would buy. Smith isn't even close to what Kitna was in that offense, much less Carson Palmer. I haven't even seen anything from him yet that leads me to think he can begin to read a defense. He also doesn't come from a pro-style collegiate offense, as Palmer did. Lengthen the learning curve that much more. Rudi Johnson reeled off something like 10 TDs and nearly 1,000 yards the year before that offense even developed. While a healthy Gore may have that potential, he has given no indication he's capable of staying healthy long enough to find out. Nevermind actually producing at that level.Antonio Bryant does have some talent. I'll give him that. But I hope he's not your Chad Johnson. And please don't tell me Arnaz Battle is playing the role of TJ Alphabet in this offensive sitcom, 'cause it's going to take a LOT of selling to get me to pay $1,000 for that $2 whore.

Ultimately, it is a team rebuilding and an offense on the rise. But it would not surprise me one bit.

Of course it's an offense on the rise. Even a dead body bounces when it hits the bottom of a canyon.

Fair enough, but I guess my point is that they may be higher on their way back up out of the canyon than many people may realize.

 

[MLBrandow]

Wasn't Lloyd the guy that had that girly swat on the ball last year? I remember watching the video and , can't remember who it was though.

add: anyone have that video?

 

[derek19]

The team will not be respectable until the ownership changes. Pretty much every decision the team has made in the past four years has been bad, and they show no signs of changing their pattern.

You really feel that way? Is Nolan actually in control? I think he'll be a good coach, but I don't believe either of his 1st rounders were smart picks.

VD wasn't a smart pick? Manny lawson wasn't a smart pick? Please explain why you think that...Fridayfrenzy has it as his avatar....

 

[hacman]

Two years.I think I'm one of the few sport fans that give all first year head coaches and starting QB's in their rookie year a mulligan. I think both Nolan and Smith will lead SF to the playoffs eventually. In the NFL you can go from laughing stock to the penthouse faster than in any other sport because of the hard salary cap and so much FA movement each offseason. Of course it will certainly help when SEA's roster gets too old to dominate that division. That's closer than most people think. Jones/Hasselbeck/Alexander don't have more than a couple of years left in the tank.

I agree with this sentiment. Not surprised that this is a post from a Charger fan, because I base my expectations for the Niners on the Chargers’ model of success. It was only a couple of years ago that the Chargers were the whipping boy of the league- Archie Manning calling out the San Diego brass leading up to the ’04 draft was maybe their lowest point in public opinion and a lot of people agreed with the Mannings. Soon after, we saw how a “miserable” quarterback matured with his team to field a contender. There could also be a Gates/VDavis parallel, but I won’t expect that type of greatness. I will be happy if Davis is 75% as good as Antonio, but obviously hoping for more. My guess is that you’ll see the Niners be competitive in early-to-mid 2007. To do damage in the playoffs, you’re probably looking at 2009. There is some wishful thinking here, mostly based on how Alex Smith develops. My expectations are based on Nolan’s leadership thus far and from a person who doesn’t get their due in this organization, Scot McGloughan, who is the VP of Player Personnel. The Niners are drafting their type of athlete- tough-minded, athletic, game-savvy players. This is in stark contrast to the recruits from the Donohue regime. I disagree that the Niners can’t be successful under this ownership as CalBear asserts. Not a fan of York, but he has moved into the background since Nolan has taken the reigns. They recently brought in Lal Heneghan as a VP, who is respected league-wide for his skills at negotiating contracts- lowering the input and visibility Donahue/York’s pet Paraag Marathe.

 

[CalBear]

The team will not be respectable until the ownership changes. Pretty much every decision the team has made in the past four years has been bad, and they show no signs of changing their pattern.

I thought this thread was about the Niners, not the Raiders.

I think the Raiders also have serious ownership issues, but bringing in Moss, Jordan, Collins and Brooks certainly makes them look more like a team that wants to get better, than bringing in Trent Dilfer and Antonio Bryant does.I am neither a Niner nor a Raider fan. I think Al Davis is a scumbag but has some football clue. I think the Niner ownership has no clue at all.

 

[CalBear]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

 

[Deadzone21]

Their center Newberry isn't looking too good. That OL will start to collapse and only Frank Gore has hope of making them look good, but a weak OL isn't going to help that passing game, and when opposing defenses start putting 8+ in the box and mixing blitz packages, it's going to be a long season.

=============

49ers' Newberry hurting, 'concerned for my career'

By Dennis Georgatos

MEDIANEWS

SANTA CLARA - Jeremy Newberry missed a third consecutive day of practice Monday because of a troubling recurrence of knee problems that could threaten the two-time Pro Bowl center's comeback with the 49ers this season.

In a somber health assessment, Newberry, 30, said he's dealing with pain and swelling in his surgically repaired right knee and his left knee.

He said an MRI last week showed significant loss of cartilage in the left knee. That's the same problem that led to micro-fracture surgery on the right knee last December to restore the joint's cushioning tissue and alleviate bone-on-bone contact.

Article in Contra Costa Times

 

[Otis]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

 

[Otis]

Their center Newberry isn't looking too good. That OL will start to collapse and only Frank Gore has hope of making them look good, but a weak OL isn't going to help that passing game, and when opposing defenses start putting 8+ in the box and mixing blitz packages, it's going to be a long season.

=============

49ers' Newberry hurting, 'concerned for my career'

By Dennis Georgatos

MEDIANEWS

SANTA CLARA - Jeremy Newberry missed a third consecutive day of practice Monday because of a troubling recurrence of knee problems that could threaten the two-time Pro Bowl center's comeback with the 49ers this season.

In a somber health assessment, Newberry, 30, said he's dealing with pain and swelling in his surgically repaired right knee and his left knee.

He said an MRI last week showed significant loss of cartilage in the left knee. That's the same problem that led to micro-fracture surgery on the right knee last December to restore the joint's cushioning tissue and alleviate bone-on-bone contact.

Article in Contra Costa Times

Obviously not the sort of news we want to hear. If the whole line gets injured and falls apart, there go your chances for an offensive juggernaut.

 

[CalBear]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

 

[Otis]

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

Rattay? Seriously?Playing Rattay is not rebuilding. It's not progress.

3) Starting Smith.

Because they had a crack at the playoffs last year anyway? Getting your rookie QB NFL experience when you are going to lose anyway makes too much sense.

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

Norv Turner is not a head coach, but he is a very, very good offensive coordinator.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

So I guess the lesson to be learned from the Lions is never to draft a receiving threat in the top ten? Have you considered the problems there could be a result of the Lions organization and not the talent they brought in? Not to mention taking a receiver in the top-ten THREE years in a row. When was the last time the Niners drafted a receiver in the top ten?These arguments just don't make even the most remote bit of sense. If you want to criticize them for losing defensive players, that's fine. I'm not a SF homer and I can't speak to that, but maybe there were contractual, financial, or other reasons that happened.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

I actually rate that as a legit beef. I thought after Leinart said he was returning to school, their best bet was to take Edwards and wait a season to draft their franchise QB. They had to expect to be at the top of the draft again.

 

[derek19]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

Can you honestly name one player better than Vernon Davis left at 1.06?

 

[5Rings]

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

I actually rate that as a legit beef. I thought after Leinart said he was returning to school, their best bet was to take Edwards and wait a season to draft their franchise QB. They had to expect to be at the top of the draft again.

Supposedly, the first thing McG and Nolan did was sit down and thoroughly review every play Rattay was in the last few years. Talked to players. Ex-players. They obviously decided they had to upgrade over him, and Smith was the best ( ) QB in the draft that year.Rattay was the worst QB I've seen in a 49er uniform since Scott Bull. He had to be replaced.If you want to talk in hindsight, I would have preferred the team to have taken Shawn Merriman.

 

[Otis]

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

I actually rate that as a legit beef. I thought after Leinart said he was returning to school, their best bet was to take Edwards and wait a season to draft their franchise QB. They had to expect to be at the top of the draft again.

Fair enough, but if they'd have taken Edwards, folks like CalBear would be complaining that they are too much like the Lions again. You just can't please everyone, and all else being equal, I'd start off rebuilding my NFL team using the same formula that has seemingly worked for so many others (including the Bengals) and start with a coaching staff and franchise QB. I simply cannot fault them for the Smith pick, especially now when we have seen so little of the kid.

 

[CalBear]

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

No, starting at the QB position is not as good as any. You mentioned "Cincinatti two years ago"; Cincinatti two years ago was in the top half of the league in almost every offensive category, they went 8-8, and they brought in someone rated as a sure-fire QB prospect. The Niners in 2004 were #25 in yardage and #30 in scoring and went 2-14, and they brought in the weakest #1 QB prospect since Jim Druckenmiller.You start rebuilding in the lines, not at QB. And I don't mean rebuilding Newberry's cartilige.

Rattay? Seriously?

Playing Rattay is not rebuilding. It's not progress.

There is plenty of historical evidence that QBs do better if they don't start in their rookie year. Smith was obviously not ready, even if you think he has the talent to succeed (which I don't).

So I guess the lesson to be learned from the Lions is never to draft a receiving threat in the top ten? Have you considered the problems there could be a result of the Lions organization and not the talent they brought in? Not to mention taking a receiver in the top-ten THREE years in a row. When was the last time the Niners drafted a receiver in the top ten?

The lesson to be learned from the Lions is, don't compound your mistakes. Harrington was a mistake, and instead of recognizing the mistake, trying to build the rest of the team, and maybe bringing in a real QB, the Lions kept reaching for receivers to "give him weapons." Result? The line still stinks and the defense has finished as #20 or worse five years in a row. Oh, also, double-digit losses five years in a row. Just because a team is bad now doesn't mean it won't be bad later.

 

[hacman]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

It seems that three of the points you have listed are branches of the “draft Smith” decision tree. The rest of your points can be intelligently debated for both sides. The issues relating to Smith don’t hold water if you accept that Alex Smith is the type of player and man who can lead your team. A coach has to make a decision whether his young quarterback has the mental make-up or not and Nolan decided that Smith did. One thing they have shown is consistency in regards to Smith. They drafted and signed lineman Smith's/Nolan’s first year, brought in talented pass catchers the second year. They have made a decision to commit to him and try to surround him with talent, which they have done. The Niners brought Dilfer as a mentor, with the hopes of replicating his positive relationship/influence on Matt Hasselbeck’s maturity. Are you supposed to trade for Culpepper the year after you sign your franchise player?

If you believe that signing Smith with the first pick was a mistake, I can understand that logic. However, the team has shown consistency under Nolan’s watch.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.

He was the consensus best QB in the draft. The Niners were looking to rebuild, and starting at the QB position is as good a move as any. Unfortunately it wasn't the year that Eli or Big Ben or Palmer came out. But discounting Smith after looking bad as a rookie is foolish. Give the kid a chance.

I actually rate that as a legit beef. I thought after Leinart said he was returning to school, their best bet was to take Edwards and wait a season to draft their franchise QB. They had to expect to be at the top of the draft again.

Supposedly, the first thing McG and Nolan did was sit down and thoroughly review every play Rattay was in the last few years. Talked to players. Ex-players. They obviously decided they had to upgrade over him, and Smith was the best ( ) QB in the draft that year.Rattay was the worst QB I've seen in a 49er uniform since Scott Bull. He had to be replaced.If you want to talk in hindsight, I would have preferred the team to have taken Shawn Merriman.

I understand that. But they were going to suck regardless of whether Rattay started or Smith. There was no concensus #1 pick in that draft, and they knew Leinart would be available this year. They could have planned for that. Is it ####ty to say, "We're going to suck this year anyway, so let's hold off on drafting our franchise QB another season?" Sure. But part of the problem with any failing organization is the inability to be realistic or recognize limitations. And that's not hindsight. That was my belief from the second Leinart chose to go back to school and Rodgers and Smith started moving into the vacuum created by his absence. "The best available QB" in that draft would have been passing on a QB in that draft.

 

[MLBrandow]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

Can you honestly name one player better than Vernon Davis left at 1.06?

Matt Leinart

 

[Colin Dowling]

"very"

 

[massraider]

How far they are depends on Alex Smith. If he is a good QB who went through a tough adjustment, the could be .500 this year. People forget that the distance between a bad team and a good team is small - the Jets went from the AFC championship game to the scrap heap largely on the basis of three injuries - QB, C, and RB. If Alex Smith is a bust, they could spend the next 3-4 years coming to terms with that, and then they have to identify another QB. Could be a long time in the jungle for them. I suspect that they will be much better than most peopel expect, and they could be sniffing around the playoffs by next year. I don't know how many one- and two-year turnarounds it will take for people to realize that you're never as bad as the press clippings.

I agree with this. With free agency, and so many young players starting immediately in this league, a lot can change in a year.

 

[CalBear]

I agree with this. With free agency, and so many young players starting immediately in this league, a lot can change in a year.

Bad teams will remain bad if they make bad decisions all the time. Cases in point: Arizona: last 10-win season was 1976. Only two winning seasons since then. Detroit: No playoff games since 1995, seven 10-loss seasons.I think it is more likely that the Niners are about to join those two among the long-term worst franchises in NFL history than it is that they're about to turn around and make the playoffs.

 

[derek19]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

Can you honestly name one player better than Vernon Davis left at 1.06?

Matt Leinart

I'd rather have Alex Smith over Matt Leinart any day. The Niners will never have a good enough O-line for Matt. Matt needs an O-line like the colts since he's a pocket passer. Alex is mobile.

I say to Matt, thanks for staying in school and getting ur #### smoked in the rose bowl!!!!

Glad to have Alex..

 

[MLBrandow]

Oh and by the way, the teams which were horrible and turned it around are not at all analogous to the Niners, because those teams made good decisions. The Niners are making decisions like they want to emulate Detroit, not Dallas.

Which decisions from the Nolan era are you questioning?

1) Alex Smith #1 overall. They should have traded down.2) Getting rid of their only decent QB mid-season, so the fans couldn't complain about Smith starting.

3) Starting Smith.

4) Failing to retain their two best defensive players (Carter and Peterson).

5) Bringing in Norv Turner, fresh off 23 losses in two years coaching a more talented team.

6) Bringing in Trent Dilfer as a backup QB, so the fans won't complain as much about Smith starting.

7) Wasting a high first-round pick on a TE "to give Smith more weapons". (See Detroit, 2002-2004).

I'm sure there are others, but those stick out.

Can you honestly name one player better than Vernon Davis left at 1.06?

Matt Leinart

I'd rather have Alex Smith over Matt Leinart any day. The Niners will never have a good enough O-line for Matt. Matt needs an O-line like the colts since he's a pocket passer. Alex is mobile.

I say to Matt, thanks for staying in school and getting ur #### smoked in the rose bowl!!!!

Glad to have Alex..

Are you saying this because you know for a fact that SF is unlikely to have a decent OL for the next decade?