54 year old rapes 14 year old gets 30 days (1 Viewer)

[Controller]

This guy needs to have a hunting accident, and soon.

Is **** Cheney available these days?

 

[SacramentoBob]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

 

[timschochet]

I live near Montana and, if I ever have a daughter, I'm probably not living in Montana.

Just don't raise a daughter who at 14 wants to have sex with 54 y/o guys and you're probably not going to be involved in a situation like this.

I sure hope you have a link to back this claim up, because otherwise it's a pretty disgusting comment given the fact that she committed suicide.

How about the OP:

The judge claimed Moralez was “as much in control of the situation” as her 49-year-old teacher. He added the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

Yep. he said that, and it's a big part of why so many people find this story so infuriating, given the fact that she committed suicide. Not you though, apparently, huh, Christo? You read what the judge said and assume that the 14 year old girl must have been asking for it, right?

 

[timschochet]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

 

[timschochet]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

 

[Zow]

That said, the circumstances in this particular case seem to merit quite a bit more than 30 days, so I agree with you on that part.

I agree here. If this happened in my jurisdiction, assuming a lack of priors, I'd anticipate either probation with 6-12 months jail or a terminate ~2.5 year prison sentence.

 

[Zow]

I live near Montana and, if I ever have a daughter, I'm probably not living in Montana.

Just don't raise a daughter who at 14 wants to have sex with 54 y/o guys and you're probably not going to be involved in a situation like this.

I sure hope you have a link to back this claim up, because otherwise it's a pretty disgusting comment given the fact that she committed suicide.

How about the OP:

The judge claimed Moralez was “as much in control of the situation” as her 49-year-old teacher. He added the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

Yep. he said that, and it's a big part of why so many people find this story so infuriating, given the fact that she committed suicide. Not you though, apparently, huh, Christo? You read what the judge said and assume that the 14 year old girl must have been asking for it, right?

I don't think that's what he is saying.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

What do you know about this girl? Obviously more than the judge, so please, enlighten us.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

Same judge...plea deal on a woman's 13th DUI charge.

http://catcountry1029.com/tags/district-judge-g-todd-baugh/

I hope this ####er gets prostate cancer.

 

[timschochet]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

What do you know about this girl? Obviously more than the judge, so please, enlighten us.

All I need to know is that she was 14 and he was 49. That makes it rape. There are no extenuating circumstances.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

What do you know about this girl? Obviously more than the judge, so please, enlighten us.

All I need to know is that she was 14 and he was 49. That makes it rape. There are no extenuating circumstances.

Nothing

 

[timschochet]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

 

[Zow]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Then the word you're looking for is "hebephilia"

 

[Zow]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

This is a dumb exercise. Obviously the answer deals with the particular nuanced definition of rape. Lawyers and judges and legislators have been arguing over this type of thing for years.

If you define rape as only needing the lack of consent, then this case = rape

If you define rape as requiring an assault* + sex, then this case /= rape

*assuming assault is defined as an actual forceful touching. In AZ, we actually have an assault definition which includes "unwanted touching." So, it could still be raped under this nuanced definition.** And this is the type of lesser included crime I'll often try to get my stat rape client to be able to plead to so sex registration comes off the table.

** You see how dumb and circular this type of discussion comes when we toss out absolutes in questions included terms which are definitionally fluid?

 

[bonesman]

I live near Montana and, if I ever have a daughter, I'm probably not living in Montana.

Just don't raise a daughter who at 14 wants to have sex with 54 y/o guys and you're probably not going to be involved in a situation like this.

I sure hope you have a link to back this claim up, because otherwise it's a pretty disgusting comment given the fact that she committed suicide.

How about the OP:

The judge claimed Moralez was “as much in control of the situation” as her 49-year-old teacher. He added the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

That means she had big breastasists

 

[Cliff Clavin]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

Pretty much anywhere in South America, Mexico and most of Europe.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

It's in the Koran?

 

[Zow]

I'd also add that unless the article included actual quotes from the court transcript/audio of the sentencing, I'd strongly caution against considering them completely accurate.

The media does a horrible job of summarizing the legal justifications/decisions from a hearing. I don't blame them for it, but they often don't understand what they're hearing.

 

[Geezil]

i bet he's wishing she was 7 about right now. he would have been out in 2 weeks.

our system is off the rails, headed straight for hell. i dont even know why we are surprised anymore.

 

[Zow]

i bet he's wishing she was 7 about right now. he would have been out in 2 weeks.

our system is off the rails, headed straight for hell. i dont even know why we are surprised anymore.

As opposed to before when in many jurisdictions his actions would have been completely legal? Or when it wasn't rape if the guy never actually physically hurts the girl past the sex? Or when it was totally legally to rape your wife? Or when this type of behavior was just swept under the rug?

Our system isn't perfect. But you're old and cranky.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

i bet he's wishing she was 7 about right now. he would have been out in 2 weeks.

our system is off the rails, headed straight for hell. i dont even know why we are surprised anymore.

I'm with Woz on this. Can't stand doom-criers.

 

[psychobillies]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Right.

Imagine that you're the beach or the pool and you see a hot girl in a bikini from a distance. A minute later you find out she's your buddy's 14 year old niece and not an adult. That doesn't make one a pedophile.

No, but if you then have sex with her, you are human filth, and as far as I'm concerned, a dangerous child predator.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Right.

Imagine that you're the beach or the pool and you see a hot girl in a bikini from a distance. A minute later you find out she's your buddy's 14 year old niece and not an adult. That doesn't make one a pedophile.

No, but if you then have sex with her, you are human filth, and as far as I'm concerned, a dangerous child predator.

You're really having this much trouble following this?

 

[Guest]

How many states have a "position of authority" clause?

 

[psychobillies]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Right.

Imagine that you're the beach or the pool and you see a hot girl in a bikini from a distance. A minute later you find out she's your buddy's 14 year old niece and not an adult. That doesn't make one a pedophile.

No, but if you then have sex with her, you are human filth, and as far as I'm concerned, a dangerous child predator.

You're really having this much trouble following this?

What am I missing? This guy was her teacher. He knew how old she was. What you are talking about has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[timschochet]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

This is a dumb exercise. Obviously the answer deals with the particular nuanced definition of rape. Lawyers and judges and legislators have been arguing over this type of thing for years.

If you define rape as only needing the lack of consent, then this case = rape

If you define rape as requiring an assault* + sex, then this case /= rape

*assuming assault is defined as an actual forceful touching. In AZ, we actually have an assault definition which includes "unwanted touching." So, it could still be raped under this nuanced definition.** And this is the type of lesser included crime I'll often try to get my stat rape client to be able to plead to so sex registration comes off the table.

** You see how dumb and circular this type of discussion comes when we toss out absolutes in questions included terms which are definitionally fluid?

I probably take this a little personally because my own daughter is just turning 13. But honestly, I don't care what the situation was. And I don't care about how acceptable Cliff claims it might be in other countries (although I'm betting if you add the stipulation that the 49 year old is the girl's teacher, then it's not acceptable even in those countries.) Even if the girl invited the guy to have sex, even if she stripped for him, even if she did everything and he just stood there and let it happen, he's still guilty of rape IMO. BECAUSE HE'S 49 AND SHE'S 14, AND BECAUSE HE'S HER TEACHER!!! There can be no extenuating circumstances, no excuses. Not IMO. She's not old enough to know what she's doing, and he's a scumbag. Case closed.

 

[timschochet]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Right.

Imagine that you're the beach or the pool and you see a hot girl in a bikini from a distance. A minute later you find out she's your buddy's 14 year old niece and not an adult. That doesn't make one a pedophile.

No, but if you then have sex with her, you are human filth, and as far as I'm concerned, a dangerous child predator.

This thread is a classic case of some people in our society refusing to engage in moral certitude. Somethings really can be looked at in black and white.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescents, not 14 year olds.

Seriously? I will concede the semantics here, but anybody that is over 40 and has sex with a 14 year old is a sick depraved predator. My daughter is almost 14, and if this happened to her, I would kill the guy. Painfully.

That's neither here not there.

He's right about the pedophilia thing and you're right that perp is a depraved predator.

This. I'm just in a stickler for accuracy mode right now.

Right.

Imagine that you're the beach or the pool and you see a hot girl in a bikini from a distance. A minute later you find out she's your buddy's 14 year old niece and not an adult. That doesn't make one a pedophile.

No, but if you then have sex with her, you are human filth, and as far as I'm concerned, a dangerous child predator.

You're really having this much trouble following this?

What am I missing? This guy was her teacher. He knew how old she was. What you are talking about has nothing to do with this thread.

Just out of curiousity...how many concussions have you had in your lifetime?

 

[Dr Oadi]

Guys not getting 30 days for rape of a child.

He is getting 30 days for getting kicked out of a sex offender treatment program.

Guy got zip for rape. Must be nice to be pals with the prosecuting attorney and get sweetheart deals.

 

[johnnycakes]

Judges are great people.

 

[cstu]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

This is a dumb exercise. Obviously the answer deals with the particular nuanced definition of rape. Lawyers and judges and legislators have been arguing over this type of thing for years.

If you define rape as only needing the lack of consent, then this case = rape

If you define rape as requiring an assault* + sex, then this case /= rape

*assuming assault is defined as an actual forceful touching. In AZ, we actually have an assault definition which includes "unwanted touching." So, it could still be raped under this nuanced definition.** And this is the type of lesser included crime I'll often try to get my stat rape client to be able to plead to so sex registration comes off the table.

** You see how dumb and circular this type of discussion comes when we toss out absolutes in questions included terms which are definitionally fluid?

I probably take this a little personally because my own daughter is just turning 13. But honestly, I don't care what the situation was. And I don't care about how acceptable Cliff claims it might be in other countries (although I'm betting if you add the stipulation that the 49 year old is the girl's teacher, then it's not acceptable even in those countries.) Even if the girl invited the guy to have sex, even if she stripped for him, even if she did everything and he just stood there and let it happen, he's still guilty of rape IMO. BECAUSE HE'S 49 AND SHE'S 14, AND BECAUSE HE'S HER TEACHER!!! There can be no extenuating circumstances, no excuses. Not IMO. She's not old enough to know what she's doing, and he's a scumbag. Case closed.

My daughter is only turning 5 but the thought of her at 14 being with a 17 yo doesn't make me feel much better than her with a 49 yo. I know both the 17 and 49 yo are only there was one thing. Obviously I'd want the 49 yo in jail for as long as possible, but if it's the 17 yo I'm supposed to go 'Oh well, that's completely legal and not rape".

 

[CurlyNight]

I don't know if this is in this thread but Rambold was warned before about touching female students. Judge Baugh released a statement in which he attempted to clarify his remarks. He said his remarks were “really stupid” and that he “deserves to be chastised.” Here he tries to explain what he was thinking with such a light sentence:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/judge-who-sentenced-stacey-rambold-30-days-jail-rape-apologizes-comments#



I think he can kiss his chances for re-election next year goodbye..

 

[FUBAR]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

If there's grass on the field...

 

[T Bell]

A law school classmate of mine is a superior court judge now because he decided to run for election against a sitting judge who was a moron and whose inept ruling denying a restraining order resulted in a murder-suicide. I hope that happens here.

 

[FUBAR]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

This is a dumb exercise. Obviously the answer deals with the particular nuanced definition of rape. Lawyers and judges and legislators have been arguing over this type of thing for years. If you define rape as only needing the lack of consent, then this case = rape

If you define rape as requiring an assault* + sex, then this case /= rape

*assuming assault is defined as an actual forceful touching. In AZ, we actually have an assault definition which includes "unwanted touching." So, it could still be raped under this nuanced definition.** And this is the type of lesser included crime I'll often try to get my stat rape client to be able to plead to so sex registration comes off the table.

** You see how dumb and circular this type of discussion comes when we toss out absolutes in questions included terms which are definitionally fluid?

I probably take this a little personally because my own daughter is just turning 13. But honestly, I don't care what the situation was. And I don't care about how acceptable Cliff claims it might be in other countries (although I'm betting if you add the stipulation that the 49 year old is the girl's teacher, then it's not acceptable even in those countries.) Even if the girl invited the guy to have sex, even if she stripped for him, even if she did everything and he just stood there and let it happen, he's still guilty of rape IMO. BECAUSE HE'S 49 AND SHE'S 14, AND BECAUSE HE'S HER TEACHER!!! There can be no extenuating circumstances, no excuses. Not IMO. She's not old enough to know what she's doing, and he's a scumbag. Case closed.

My daughter is only turning 5 but the thought of her at 14 being with a 17 yo doesn't make me feel much better than her with a 49 yo. I know both the 17 and 49 yo are only there was one thing. Obviously I'd want the 49 yo in jail for as long as possible, but if it's the 17 yo I'm supposed to go 'Oh well, that's completely legal and not rape".

No, but the 17 year old is less culpable. I'd be pissed but wouldn't want him in jail too long.

 

[CurlyNight]

A law school classmate of mine is a superior court judge now because he decided to run for election against a sitting judge who was a moron and whose inept ruling denying a restraining order resulted in a murder-suicide. I hope that happens here.

Me too. After 30 years on the bench, Baugh needs to hang it up after this debacle.

 

[Zow]

Guys not getting 30 days for rape of a child.

He is getting 30 days for getting kicked out of a sex offender treatment program.

Guy got zip for rape. Must be nice to be pals with the prosecuting attorney and get sweetheart deals.

The prosecuting attorney apparently gave an offer which exposed him to 20 years. (I question this reporting here because that seems like an incredibly wide range of potential sentence - that type of option would be impossible in my jurisdiction, but Montana may not have sentencing guidelines). So, don't necessarily blame the prosecutor.

You're technically correct that he got the 30 days for his not completing treatment. That, however, is a "technical" violation. 30 days jail is pretty standard for that, especially since he's back in treatment.

He also is presumably on probation with sex offender terms. This may have included some up front jail we aren't aware of. Additionally, being on probation with sex offender terms is no cake walk. To quote a judge in my jurisdiction, "I'd rather put a bullet in my head than have to try to successfully get through sex offender probation." He's still very open to substantial punishment, especially if he commits a new crime.

I'm not saying all this to say this guy's sentence was just right or too harsh. I can't make that call because I'm basing it on one media article which is likely full of error. But he didn't get "nothing" here, which you seem to suggest.

 

[Zow]

I don't know if this is in this thread but Rambold was warned before about touching female students. Judge Baugh released a statement in which he attempted to clarify his remarks. He said his remarks were “really stupid” and that he “deserves to be chastised.” Here he tries to explain what he was thinking with such a light sentence:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/judge-who-sentenced-stacey-rambold-30-days-jail-rape-apologizes-comments#



I think he can kiss his chances for re-election next year goodbye..

Based on that article's first sentence it is clear that any subsequent can't be trusted. Author doesn't even understand the difference between jail and prison.

 

[Zow]

A law school classmate of mine is a superior court judge now because he decided to run for election against a sitting judge who was a moron and whose inept ruling denying a restraining order resulted in a murder-suicide. I hope that happens here.

Me too. After 30 years on the bench, Baugh needs to hang it up after this debacle.

at making the basis for one judge's entire job on the bench to be one article about one case he did.

 

[HellToupee]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

Pretty much anywhere in South America, Mexico and most of Europe.

Dead wrong about most of Europe

 

[FUBAR]

Guys not getting 30 days for rape of a child.

He is getting 30 days for getting kicked out of a sex offender treatment program.

Guy got zip for rape. Must be nice to be pals with the prosecuting attorney and get sweetheart deals.

The prosecuting attorney apparently gave an offer which exposed him to 20 years. (I question this reporting here because that seems like an incredibly wide range of potential sentence - that type of option would be impossible in my jurisdiction, but Montana may not have sentencing guidelines). So, don't necessarily blame the prosecutor. You're technically correct that he got the 30 days for his not completing treatment. That, however, is a "technical" violation. 30 days jail is pretty standard for that, especially since he's back in treatment.

He also is presumably on probation with sex offender terms. This may have included some up front jail we aren't aware of. Additionally, being on probation with sex offender terms is no cake walk. To quote a judge in my jurisdiction, "I'd rather put a bullet in my head than have to try to successfully get through sex offender probation." He's still very open to substantial punishment, especially if he commits a new crime.

I'm not saying all this to say this guy's sentence was just right or too harsh. I can't make that call because I'm basing it on one media article which is likely full of error. But he didn't get "nothing" here, which you seem to suggest.

The guy had a history. Big difference. I'm still against the "touch one 12 year old girl, plea to a misdemeanor and get probation" theory judges seem to have around here (i have dealt with the firing of a few pedophiles) but this seems to be more than that.

 

[FUBAR]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

Pretty much anywhere in South America, Mexico and most of Europe.

Dead wrong about most of Europe

Middle east.

 

[HellToupee]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

Pretty much anywhere in South America, Mexico and most of Europe.

Dead wrong about most of Europe

Middle east.

most in the middle east are only being humbled so thats different

 

[Geezil]

i bet he's wishing she was 7 about right now. he would have been out in 2 weeks.

our system is off the rails, headed straight for hell. i dont even know why we are surprised anymore.

As opposed to before when in many jurisdictions his actions would have been completely legal? Or when it wasn't rape if the guy never actually physically hurts the girl past the sex? Or when it was totally legally to rape your wife? Or when this type of behavior was just swept under the rug?

Our system isn't perfect. But you're old and cranky.

to be perfectly honest i never read the article.

still havent. im not old and cranky though, i take offense to that.

sometimes i just feel like saying "something". that must have been one such time.

 

[Christo]

I live near Montana and, if I ever have a daughter, I'm probably not living in Montana.

Just don't raise a daughter who at 14 wants to have sex with 54 y/o guys and you're probably not going to be involved in a situation like this.

I sure hope you have a link to back this claim up, because otherwise it's a pretty disgusting comment given the fact that she committed suicide.

How about the OP:

The judge claimed Moralez was “as much in control of the situation” as her 49-year-old teacher. He added the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

Yep. he said that, and it's a big part of why so many people find this story so infuriating, given the fact that she committed suicide. Not you though, apparently, huh, Christo? You read what the judge said and assume that the 14 year old girl must have been asking for it, right?

The judge didn't just dream it up. He made his ruling based upon the evidence presented to him. You may disagree with the sentence he imposed. But it didn't come out of thin air. 14 y/o girls don't get seduced by 54 y/o men unless they come from a ####ed up home. The fact that she committed suicide doesn't mean she did it just for the reason you assume.

 

[T Bell]

A law school classmate of mine is a superior court judge now because he decided to run for election against a sitting judge who was a moron and whose inept ruling denying a restraining order resulted in a murder-suicide. I hope that happens here.

Me too. After 30 years on the bench, Baugh needs to hang it up after this debacle.

at making the basis for one judge's entire job on the bench to be one article about one case he did.

Do you think this sort of ruling happens in isolation? He just had a bad day? A bad case of indigestion was to blame?

 

[Christo]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

14 y/o girls choose to have sex all the time.

 

[cstu]

OK Cliff. Give me a scenario in which a 49 year old dude has sex with his 14 year old student and it isn't rape.

Come on Humbert, I dare you.

This is a dumb exercise. Obviously the answer deals with the particular nuanced definition of rape. Lawyers and judges and legislators have been arguing over this type of thing for years. If you define rape as only needing the lack of consent, then this case = rape

If you define rape as requiring an assault* + sex, then this case /= rape

*assuming assault is defined as an actual forceful touching. In AZ, we actually have an assault definition which includes "unwanted touching." So, it could still be raped under this nuanced definition.** And this is the type of lesser included crime I'll often try to get my stat rape client to be able to plead to so sex registration comes off the table.

** You see how dumb and circular this type of discussion comes when we toss out absolutes in questions included terms which are definitionally fluid?

I probably take this a little personally because my own daughter is just turning 13. But honestly, I don't care what the situation was. And I don't care about how acceptable Cliff claims it might be in other countries (although I'm betting if you add the stipulation that the 49 year old is the girl's teacher, then it's not acceptable even in those countries.) Even if the girl invited the guy to have sex, even if she stripped for him, even if she did everything and he just stood there and let it happen, he's still guilty of rape IMO. BECAUSE HE'S 49 AND SHE'S 14, AND BECAUSE HE'S HER TEACHER!!! There can be no extenuating circumstances, no excuses. Not IMO. She's not old enough to know what she's doing, and he's a scumbag. Case closed.

My daughter is only turning 5 but the thought of her at 14 being with a 17 yo doesn't make me feel much better than her with a 49 yo. I know both the 17 and 49 yo are only there was one thing. Obviously I'd want the 49 yo in jail for as long as possible, but if it's the 17 yo I'm supposed to go 'Oh well, that's completely legal and not rape".

No, but the 17 year old is less culpable. I'd be pissed but wouldn't want him in jail too long.

True. I'm guilty of the same thing at 17 and wouldn't have wanted to go to jail for it (in my defense I was 'in love'). I feel like if we as a society think it's so terrible for 14 yo's to be having sex then anyone having sex with one should be arrested. I think having one standard for 17 yo's and another for those over 18 just encourages sickos to take advantage of young girls. If 14 yo girls are off limits then they should be off limits to everyone.

 

[cstu]

I'm kind of curious why she committed suicide though.

Because she was raped?

Because she was embarrassed about having sex with a teacher?

Either, or both, are possible.

But I reject the argument being made here by some that a 14 year old girl can be a willing participant in a sexual relationship with a 49 year old man. I don't give a crap how physically developed she is. A 14 year old does not have the maturity to make that sort of decision. There is a reason we call it rape, because that's what it is. I get Hulk's argument that 18 is too old for the cutoff- perhaps it is. Maybe it should be 16, I don't know. But 16 or 18, 14 is still too young. The guy deserves to go to prison for this. This judge is full of ####.

14 y/o girls choose to have sex all the time.

The argument being made is that 14 yo's aren't capable of 'choosing' to have sex.