8 year old girl unwelcome at Christian school for being a tomboy (1 Viewer)

[Jayrok]

"We believe that unless Sunnie as well as her family clearly understand that God has made her female and her dress and behavior need to follow suit with her God-ordained identity...."

It seems the school has more concern with the child's behavior than her dress/appearance. The Bible passages referenced in the letter deal with sexual immorality. Maybe she displayed homosexual behavior in some form, or maybe made another girl uncomfortable, etc. The letter doesn't say.

It's a private Christian school. Why can't they deny admission if they feel an applicant doesn't meet their published requirements? Seems there's more to the story.

If the actions are based solely on a tomboy appearance, then there shouldn't be any female teachers or students in the school that has any type of short hair style. Because that is not Biblical either. Wouldn't look good for them to be hypocritical.

They've said there's more to the story, and I don't doubt that.

I just can't figure out why, if there was some specific, disrupting or inappropriate behavior, they wouldn't have mentioned that. That's a very simple issue to bring up with the grandparents. If you are going to go there with this, I'd think you would mention some specific behaviors.

Somebody mentioned maybe protecting the girl by not mentioning a particular disturbing behavior, but this letter was to the parents. It wasn't meant for the public, and it was always the parents' choice to share it.

No reason to hold back, and it would be irresponsible not to share something that's legitimately a problem with the grandparents.

That may be why the principal ended the letter with an invitation to discuss the matter further. Maybe it wasn't something they wanted to bring up in a letter, but the letter may have been intended to nudge the grands to schedule a face to face meeting where they could discuss it behind closed doors.

 

[matuski]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.

A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

And that's where food drives and stuff like that come back into play. It's dishonest to blame religion when it encourages people to behave badly (like in this case) while brushing aside as irrelevant when it encourages people to behave well (food drives).

Not at all imo.

It is dishonest to credit an invisible supernatural power with good acts. I have yet to see an example of good that could in any way be shown as unique to religion or as something a non-religious group or individual could not accomplish.

It is worse than dishonest to hide behind that same invisible supernatural power to shield yourself from the consequences of bad behavior.

 

[shader]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.

A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

And that's where food drives and stuff like that come back into play. It's dishonest to blame religion when it encourages people to behave badly (like in this case) while brushing aside as irrelevant when it encourages people to behave well (food drives).

Not at all imo.

It is dishonest to credit an invisible supernatural power with good acts. I have yet to see an example of good that could in any way be shown as unique to religion or as something a non-religious group or individual could not accomplish.

It is worse than dishonest to hide behind that same invisible supernatural power to shield yourself from the consequences of bad behavior.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Private KooKSchool

 

[pollardsvision]

"We believe that unless Sunnie as well as her family clearly understand that God has made her female and her dress and behavior need to follow suit with her God-ordained identity...."

It seems the school has more concern with the child's behavior than her dress/appearance. The Bible passages referenced in the letter deal with sexual immorality. Maybe she displayed homosexual behavior in some form, or maybe made another girl uncomfortable, etc. The letter doesn't say.

It's a private Christian school. Why can't they deny admission if they feel an applicant doesn't meet their published requirements? Seems there's more to the story.

If the actions are based solely on a tomboy appearance, then there shouldn't be any female teachers or students in the school that has any type of short hair style. Because that is not Biblical either. Wouldn't look good for them to be hypocritical.

They've said there's more to the story, and I don't doubt that.

I just can't figure out why, if there was some specific, disrupting or inappropriate behavior, they wouldn't have mentioned that. That's a very simple issue to bring up with the grandparents. If you are going to go there with this, I'd think you would mention some specific behaviors.

Somebody mentioned maybe protecting the girl by not mentioning a particular disturbing behavior, but this letter was to the parents. It wasn't meant for the public, and it was always the parents' choice to share it.

No reason to hold back, and it would be irresponsible not to share something that's legitimately a problem with the grandparents.

That may be why the principal ended the letter with an invitation to discuss the matter further. Maybe it wasn't something they wanted to bring up in a letter, but the letter may have been intended to nudge the grands to schedule a face to face meeting where they could discuss it behind closed doors.

Could be. And the school keeps saying there's more to this.

But that letter seems like it's meant to be a last official communication on a relationship that's going to end.

It seems the productive face-to-face conversation would come before the letter dropping a "sexual immorality" comment in regards to someone's 8 year old grand-daughter. It's very unlikely to happen after.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.

A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

And that's where food drives and stuff like that come back into play. It's dishonest to blame religion when it encourages people to behave badly (like in this case) while brushing aside as irrelevant when it encourages people to behave well (food drives).

Not at all imo.

It is dishonest to credit an invisible supernatural power with good acts. I have yet to see an example of good that could in any way be shown as unique to religion or as something a non-religious group or individual could not accomplish.

It is worse than dishonest to hide behind that same invisible supernatural power to shield yourself from the consequences of bad behavior.

Now take the bolded statement and apply it to negative stuff like war and treating tomboys badly.

We've done variations on this before. If you blame religion when people do bad things in their religion's name but pretend like religion is a non-issue when people do good things in their religion's name, you're just not being reasonable. Pick one standard or the other.

 

[matuski]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.

A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

And that's where food drives and stuff like that come back into play. It's dishonest to blame religion when it encourages people to behave badly (like in this case) while brushing aside as irrelevant when it encourages people to behave well (food drives).

Not at all imo.

It is dishonest to credit an invisible supernatural power with good acts. I have yet to see an example of good that could in any way be shown as unique to religion or as something a non-religious group or individual could not accomplish.

It is worse than dishonest to hide behind that same invisible supernatural power to shield yourself from the consequences of bad behavior.

Now take the bolded statement and apply it to negative stuff like war and treating tomboys badly.

We've done variations on this before. If you blame religion when people do bad things in their religion's name but pretend like religion is a non-issue when people do good things in their religion's name, you're just not being reasonable. Pick one standard or the other.

No, I am being consistent.

Religion is not the cause of good. It is not the cause of bad. Hiding behind religion in an effort to avoid consequences of bad is dishonest and deceitful. Crediting an invisible god for your own or others' good is a shame.

 

[beavers]

Shame on them and if my child was a member of this school, I would remove her immediately.

Well this is all the school wants.

My child dresses like a princess, blonde hair, blue eyes, so of course this isn't what they want. She's the stereotypical all American, heterosexual girl...

 

[matuski]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

No, I am being consistent.

Religion is not the cause of good. It is not the cause of bad. Hiding behind religion in an effort to avoid consequences of bad is dishonest and deceitful. Crediting an invisible god for your own or others' good is a shame.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Is it your contention that when somebody says "I work at a soup kitchen because I'm trying to follow Jesus's example of feeding the hungry," that's something we should criticize?

 

[pollardsvision]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

 

[timschochet]

I was reading the other day that many private Christian schools used to regard left-handedness as Satan-inspired, and physically abused left handed kids in order to force them to use the "correct" hand.

 

[McGarnicle]

I was reading the other day that many private Christian schools used to regard left-handedness as Satan-inspired, and physically abused left handed kids in order to force them to use the "correct" hand.

Also even though this girl is only 8, she could pass for 18 or 19.

 

[matuski]

No, I am being consistent.

Religion is not the cause of good. It is not the cause of bad. Hiding behind religion in an effort to avoid consequences of bad is dishonest and deceitful. Crediting an invisible god for your own or others' good is a shame.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Is it your contention that when somebody says "I work a soup kitchen because I'm trying to follow Jesus's example of feeding the hungry," that's something we should criticize?

No, that is the difference. I think that is a silly statement, that Jesus has nothing to do with your great choice to work in a soup kitchen... but there is nothing deceitful or insidious about it. I would say you did a good job and deserve all the kudos yourself. Dishonest was perhaps the wrong word here... not reasonable, not factually correct, etc.

It would be deceitful if you then use the soup kitchen to justify/balance you stoning your neighbor to death.... because the bible told you to.

eta - Yes, I am being a hateful bigot and we are being very hurtful and hateful towards this girl, but.... SOUP KITCHENS and GOD!

 

[Scoresman]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies. To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

 

[shader]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies. To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Religion may not have CAUSED WW1 directly, but religious leaders "blessing their troops" and telling them that God was with them was (and still is) pretty horrific.

 

[Jayrok]

Shame on them and if my child was a member of this school, I would remove her immediately.

Well this is all the school wants.

My child dresses like a princess, blonde hair, blue eyes, so of course this isn't what they want. She's the stereotypical all American, heterosexual girl...

Ah.. thought you were saying that if you were the child's parent you'd take her out. My mistake.

If all the parents took this stance maybe the school would rethink their principles or risk facing a shutdown. But it seems their target student applicants are fundamental bible believing Christians.

 

[beavers]

Shame on them and if my child was a member of this school, I would remove her immediately.

Well this is all the school wants.

My child dresses like a princess, blonde hair, blue eyes, so of course this isn't what they want. She's the stereotypical all American, heterosexual girl...

Ah.. thought you were saying that if you were the child's parent you'd take her out. My mistake.

If all the parents took this stance maybe the school would rethink their principles or risk facing a shutdown. But it seems their target student applicants are fundamental bible believing Christians.

Eventually, they would kick out my daughter ... Because her mom likes girls. But yes, if I heard of this story and my daughter wasn't impacted directly, I would still remove her from the school. It's definitely not the type of environment that I want for her - teaching someone that different is not okay, not loving and accepting because of our differences, and forcing someone to be someone who they aren't.

 

[Jayrok]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Religion may not have CAUSED WW1 directly, but religious leaders "blessing their troops" and telling them that God was with them was (and still is) pretty horrific.

The Bible is full of this type of theme; God championing war efforts through his divine blessing.

 

[shader]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Religion may not have CAUSED WW1 directly, but religious leaders "blessing their troops" and telling them that God was with them was (and still is) pretty horrific.

The Bible is full of this type of theme; God championing war efforts through his divine blessing.

Yes, although the Israelites were God's directly chosen people and the wars and punishments were divine judgment, not human wars.

When Catholics are fighting Catholics, it's quite a different story. Unless of course, you think God has a "chosen" nation on this earth. I've definitely met a number of people that think the US is God's chosen country. As if that somehow makes their thirst for war ok.

 

[matuski]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Nobody is saying this (I am not at least). People keep reading what they want to hear.

Religion's ability to deflect accountability and to shield the consequences of bad is unrivaled (unique). This is its greatest strength and why it has survived and thrived. It is uniquely suited for this purpose.

Nationalism would be second on that list imo, and in the same vein.... but not as effective as invisible cloud gods.

You want to do something you can't justify or defend or sell on its own merit, so you invoke an invisible un-provable (or dis-provable) entity that you have told people since they were toddlers is the key to spending the afterlife with their loved ones to your cause. You have just confounded with impressive effect any attempt to argue or prosecute on the merits of the actions alone.

 

[joffer]

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

 

[McGarnicle]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

But also I always hear about parents lamenting the liberal agendas being taught in public schools. That's a big part of it too. Those ultra bible-thumping right wingers probably take very little issue with this story, even if they don't all explicitly share the same level of bigotry on display. They consider a Christian school one of the last bastions of "good" in an increasingly liberal and godless world, so this unfortunate incident doesn't outweigh the overall benefit.

I wonder how many parents who have kids at that school really feel this is wrong deep down but aren't going to pull their kids from the school or even say anything at all. Probably a decent percentage.

 

[Jayrok]

I've definitely met a number of people that think the US is God's chosen country.

Isn't it?

 

[McGarnicle]

The world would be a much better place if ALL women were at least occasionally in the mood for some lesbo action, not unlike Chinese food or a movie with subtitles. And there isn't a religion on earth that can refute that.

 

[Rove!]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.

A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

I disgree

here's my logical challenge:

"Where in the bible does it mention a dress code?"

 

[Rove!]

That's the problem. We expect every grade school to have a world class PR department. How about giving them some leeway instead. Its a grade school.

don't do stupid #### and you won't need a world class PR department

 

[Jayrok]

I disgree

here's my logical challenge:

"Where in the bible does it mention a dress code?"

Is this a trick question?

 

[jonessed]

Religion

Ah yes, forget the food drives, the homeless shelters, orphanages, the universities and hospitals that religion has given us... that's just cover for kicking little girls out of private schools

You can do all those things without religion as an excuse.

It would be a lot harder to make excuses for behavior like that in the OP without religion as a shield.

Not really. Excuses are easy. She was different and was upsetting the school environment so they kicked her out. Pretty simple.A lot of educators are lazy and don't like dealing with complexities. It's not a problem unique to religious schools.

You are 100% correct on the underlying human weakness that is the root cause. You completely whiffed on religion's role as a tool in this game.

Religion attempts to place a barrier before those excuses to prevent reasonable inspection and logical challenges. If you just say she was upsetting the school, I can ask you to show me and you are right or you are wrong - either way we can examine it. If you say the Bible (a god) says so, you just derailed the entire issue with cockamamie garbage in an effort to NOT be subjected to reasonable inspection and logical challenges.

It don't see how the argument is any different with no tolerance policies. The goal is to create an easy scapegoat for being a lazy educator. No flexibility means no room for reasonable compromise, introspection, or discourse.

 

[Rove!]

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

...or a "zero tolerance" policy...

 

[Rove!]

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

...or a "zero tolerance" policy...

...or invoking the spectre of "racism"

 

[jonessed]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

 

[Scoresman]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

I don't need to use conjecture and stereotypes when there are schools like this and plenty other examples of religious extremists out there that show their bigotry all on their own.

 

[MaxThreshold]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

Don't forget the "I'm an Independent!" shtick as well.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Nobody is saying this (I am not at least). People keep reading what they want to hear.

Religion's ability to deflect accountability and to shield the consequences of bad is unrivaled (unique). This is its greatest strength and why it has survived and thrived. It is uniquely suited for this purpose.

Nationalism would be second on that list imo, and in the same vein.... but not as effective as invisible cloud gods.

You want to do something you can't justify or defend or sell on its own merit, so you invoke an invisible un-provable (or dis-provable) entity that you have told people since they were toddlers is the key to spending the afterlife with their loved ones to your cause. You have just confounded with impressive effect any attempt to argue or prosecute on the merits of the actions alone.

You say your not saying religion has a unique and unrivaled ability to deflect responsibility for evil acts nut then go on to day it again? What am I missing, you have used the words unrivaled and unique (twice) what am I reading into it I shouldn't?

And what does atheism have in it's philosophy that will prevent or convince people to not commit evil acts? No God, no afterlife, almost literally from nothing to nothing, may inspire some into higher consciousness but lots of others are going to interrupt that as license to fulfill baser desires.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Nobody is saying this (I am not at least). People keep reading what they want to hear.

Religion's ability to deflect accountability and to shield the consequences of bad is unrivaled (unique). This is its greatest strength and why it has survived and thrived. It is uniquely suited for this purpose.

Nationalism would be second on that list imo, and in the same vein.... but not as effective as invisible cloud gods.

You want to do something you can't justify or defend or sell on its own merit, so you invoke an invisible un-provable (or dis-provable) entity that you have told people since they were toddlers is the key to spending the afterlife with their loved ones to your cause. You have just confounded with impressive effect any attempt to argue or prosecute on the merits of the actions alone.

You say your not saying religion has a unique and unrivaled ability to deflect responsibility for evil acts nut then go on to day it again? What am I missing, you have used the words unrivaled and unique (twice) what am I reading into it I shouldn't?

And what does atheism have in it's philosophy that will prevent or convince people to not commit evil acts? No God, no afterlife, almost literally from nothing to nothing, may inspire some into higher consciousness but lots of others are going to interrupt that as license to fulfill baser desires.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Nobody is saying this (I am not at least). People keep reading what they want to hear.

Religion's ability to deflect accountability and to shield the consequences of bad is unrivaled (unique). This is its greatest strength and why it has survived and thrived. It is uniquely suited for this purpose.

Nationalism would be second on that list imo, and in the same vein.... but not as effective as invisible cloud gods.

You want to do something you can't justify or defend or sell on its own merit, so you invoke an invisible un-provable (or dis-provable) entity that you have told people since they were toddlers is the key to spending the afterlife with their loved ones to your cause. You have just confounded with impressive effect any attempt to argue or prosecute on the merits of the actions alone.

You say your not saying religion has a unique and unrivaled ability to deflect responsibility for evil acts nut then go on to day it again? What am I missing, you have used the words unrivaled and unique (twice) what am I reading into it I shouldn't?

And what does atheism have in it's philosophy that will prevent or convince people to not commit evil acts? No God, no afterlife, almost literally from nothing to nothing, may inspire some into higher consciousness but lots of others are going to interrupt that as license to fulfill baser desires.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

Steven Weinberg never heard Of the Sovit Union? North Korea? Maoist China.

 

[Scoresman]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

Steven Weinberg never heard Of the Sovit Union? North Korea? Maoist China.

Ronald Reagan told me Russians (and other communists) are evil.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I was reading the other day that many private Christian schools used to regard left-handedness as Satan-inspired, and physically abused left handed kids in order to force them to use the "correct" hand.

Yep, that's what we are forced to deal with.

 

[pollardsvision]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

Stereotypes and conjecture?

What do you attribute the rash of Christian schools opening up in the late 60's and early 70's to?

I thought it was common knowledge that these schools opened under the guise of religion for families that didn't want to face desegregation. If there was some other reason, I'm all ears.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

Steven Weinberg never heard Of the Sovit Union? North Korea? Maoist China.

Ronald Reagan told me Russians (and other communists) are evil.

Yawn. You are so pathetic in your role as the mirror image of what you supposedly hate.

 

[Pots]

The world would be a much better place if ALL women were at least occasionally in the mood for some lesbo action, not unlike Chinese food or a movie with subtitles. And there isn't a religion on earth that can refute that.

What about guys who don't like their women thinking about women on women action?

 

[joffer]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

-Steven Weinberg

Steven Weinberg never heard Of the Sovit Union? North Korea? Maoist China.

Interesting that you consider Stalin, Kim Jong X, and Mao good people.

 

[joffer]

And what does atheism have in it's philosophy that will prevent or convince people to not commit evil acts? No God, no afterlife, almost literally from nothing to nothing, may inspire some into higher consciousness but lots of others are going to interrupt that as license to fulfill baser desires.

So you're good out of fear or because something told you to be good.I'm good because I want to be.

I win.

 

[jonessed]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

Stereotypes and conjecture?What do you attribute the rash of Christian schools opening up in the late 60's and early 70's to?

I thought it was common knowledge that these schools opened under the guise of religion for families that didn't want to face desegregation. If there was some other reason, I'm all ears.

I don't know, nor do I care. There is no evidence to suggest that most Christian private schools are secretly trying to keep the idea of Jim Crow laws alive today. It's conjecture on your part, based on a bigoted view of religious people and institutions.

 

[Rove!]

What this really highlights is that this school, like so many of these Christian schools, still hasn't changed a ton since it was created as a "white flight" school.

It was a started as a way to shelter normal little white kids from having to go to school with kids that were "different" when Jim Crow was falling.

Racism has since fallen out of favor, but the general idea remains the same.

Shame on anyone here trying to paint this in a different light. This is exactly what's going on here.

If only this kid was black you two could circle-jerk to all the news stories.

We get it. You don't like religious institutions and you use stereotypes and conjecture in an attempt to demonize religion and religious people. The cries of bigotry or almost comical in their hypocrisy.

Stereotypes and conjecture?What do you attribute the rash of Christian schools opening up in the late 60's and early 70's to?

I thought it was common knowledge that these schools opened under the guise of religion for families that didn't want to face desegregation. If there was some other reason, I'm all ears.

I don't know, nor do I care. There is no evidence to suggest that most Christian private schools are secretly trying to keep the idea of Jim Crow laws alive today. It's bigoted conjecture on your part.

It's just another of those memes that gets repeated to motivate good people to do/support evil things

 

[Sweet J]

It's a private school. So far as I know, they take no money from the state. Unlike, for instance, a retail bakery, they're not serving the general public.

Given these circumstances, why can't they expel anyone they choose for whatever reason they choose, or for no reason at all?

They should be free to expel this kid if they want. And we're free to criticize them for it. Which is, of course, what we're doing. (They're idiots).

I may be a little late to the party, but . . . I kind of get where they are coming from, if the issue is one of how to deal with differing visions of teaching and accepting "gender identity."

Reading the letter, it seems that there is more going on than just "tomboy." From the content of the letter, it sounds like the child (and parents) are stuggling with the child's gender identity, and how to address it. If the school teaches one way ("the gender you identify with should match your physical genetalia"), and the guardians of the child teach another way ("the person should get to choose the gender that he or she would like to identify as"), then it could, indeed, set the child and family up for confusion.

I may be a sucker, but the letter actually comes off as kind of compassionate.

 

[matuski]

It is a tool... when used for good, great. But don't act like it is unique in that regard, people can use anything as a tool to motivate themselves or others for good. You don't need an excuse for good, you don't find yourself defending or justifying yourself regarding good.

As a tool for bad religion is entirely unique. It is fascinating and amazing in this regard. Nothing else has its power to deflect accountability.

pIt's not unique . The experience of the 20th century proves that. Stalinists acted on religious beliefs? That is just the easiest one . WW 1 was an almost purely imperialist war. No one fought to convert or spread a religion. Muslims and Protestant countries were allies.To say religion causes all wars and is unique in enabling people to deflect bad or evil behavior is pretty much blind bigotry in it's own right.

Nobody is saying this (I am not at least). People keep reading what they want to hear.

Religion's ability to deflect accountability and to shield the consequences of bad is unrivaled (unique). This is its greatest strength and why it has survived and thrived. It is uniquely suited for this purpose.

Nationalism would be second on that list imo, and in the same vein.... but not as effective as invisible cloud gods.

You want to do something you can't justify or defend or sell on its own merit, so you invoke an invisible un-provable (or dis-provable) entity that you have told people since they were toddlers is the key to spending the afterlife with their loved ones to your cause. You have just confounded with impressive effect any attempt to argue or prosecute on the merits of the actions alone.

You say your not saying religion has a unique and unrivaled ability to deflect responsibility for evil acts nut then go on to day it again? What am I missing, you have used the words unrivaled and unique (twice) what am I reading into it I shouldn't?

And what does atheism have in it's philosophy that will prevent or convince people to not commit evil acts? No God, no afterlife, almost literally from nothing to nothing, may inspire some into higher consciousness but lots of others are going to interrupt that as license to fulfill baser desires.

All around I'd have to say this is one awful post. About as bad as we've seen in some time.

I won't try to help you understand the prior line of discussion... I think you are too far gone.

In response to the last part.... Awesome.