A rules/scoring issue--would like some feedback from the Shark Pool (1 Viewer)

[jvdesigns2002]

Hey all--thank you in advance. I know there are lots of veteran fantasy football players in here--so this is why I'd like some feedback. I play in a fantasy league with some buddies of mine. Throughout the history of the league we have always issued 3 points to a player who recovers a fumble. In fact--our leagues homepage that displays the scoring breakdown for the league still states that fumble recoveries are worth 3 points now. So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft. I got to the commishes house just before we started drafting--and I was never made aware of any scoring changes--but I would have no way of knowing what was discussed before I got there. My question is-- what takes precedent? The league website still says that fumble recoveries are worth 3 points--but he's telling me removing that scoring parameter was taken care of by a discussion at the draft. Thoughs please.

Edit--some recently acquired info. I have heard back from 2 other team owners that I texted--owners who were at the draft much earlier than I. Neither of the owners had any recollection of this scoring parameter being changed. Both of these owners have much closer relationships to the commish than I just to put this out there.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I play in a fantasy league with some buddies of mine.

I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft. I got to the commishes house just before we started drafting--and I was never made aware of any scoring changes--but I would have no way of knowing what was discussed before I got there.

Sounds like you don't get points for fumble recoveries anymore. If it's a league of buddies, don't be that guy.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I play in a fantasy league with some buddies of mine.I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft. I got to the commishes house just before we started drafting--and I was never made aware of any scoring changes--but I would have no way of knowing what was discussed before I got there.

Sounds like you don't get points for fumble recoveries anymore. If it's a league of buddies, don't be that guy.

I certainly don't want to be that guy--and I have no problem taking the loss. I just wanted to see peoples opinions on if taking the loss makes me a doormat. I was always under the impression that the "written rules" should always take precedent---but like I said-- I'm okay with taking the loss too. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Disc Shark]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I play in a fantasy league with some buddies of mine.I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft. I got to the commishes house just before we started drafting--and I was never made aware of any scoring changes--but I would have no way of knowing what was discussed before I got there.

Sounds like you don't get points for fumble recoveries anymore. If it's a league of buddies, don't be that guy.

I certainly don't want to be that guy--and I have no problem taking the loss. I just wanted to see peoples opinions on if taking the loss makes me a doormat. I was always under the impression that the "written rules" should always take precedent---but like I said-- I'm okay with taking the loss too. Thank you for your feedback.

Unless you think the commish is lying to you, it seems he just failed to update the written rules - but the rule was in fact changed.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

In an informal league like this, I'd say the verbal agreement can stand as the rule. The LM should have made the change, or at least posted something on the league page discussing it, but if it's just friends, and there isn't much (or any) money involved, I'd just let it slide.

On a side note, that is a weird rule to have for non-IDP players. A player could recover their own fumble and score an extra 3 points for it? Unless you also penalize for fumbles lost, I don't think the rule makes much sense anyways, hence it being removed.

 

[shadyridr]

Does everyone else agree that this was discussed at the draft? If so then he just forgot to change the bylaws (but apparently DID remember to update the live scoring) and the discussion takes precedence.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I would think that a scoring change should be something that every player should be informed of--but apparently not. My question is--being that it's obvious that apparently it's not a big concern that major scoring changes are obviously not being told to every member--wouldn't that make the written rules the precedent? Like I said--I'm not bitter--I have zero issues taking the loss-- I've just never had anything like this happen before and wasn't sure if I should be a bit more mad about how things were handled.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

In an informal league like this, I'd say the verbal agreement can stand as the rule. The LM should have made the change, or at least posted something on the league page discussing it, but if it's just friends, and there isn't much (or any) money involved, I'd just let it slide.

On a side note, that is a weird rule to have for non-IDP players. A player could recover their own fumble and score an extra 3 points for it? Unless you also penalize for fumbles lost, I don't think the rule makes much sense anyways, hence it being removed.

there are negative points for fumbles lost -3 points. And the way things were before was that points weren't issued for if the player recovered his own fumble--but yeah--I think i'm going to let it slide.

 

[BroadwayG]

Should have showed up to the draft a little earlier.

 

[elbowrm]

Didn't Calvin Johnson recover a fumble this weekend too? Get together with his owner and threaten a league shutdown unless the rule gets changed back.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Okay--I just heard from two other owners in the draft--who were at the draft earlier. They said they have zero recollection of a discussion in regards to changing the scoring parameter. If it makes any difference--the two owners that I've heard from so far are much closer to the commish than they are I. Does this change things?

 

[shadyridr]

Okay--I just heard from two other owners in the draft--who were at the draft earlier. They said they have zero recollection of a discussion in regards to changing the scoring parameter. If it makes any difference--the two owners that I've heard from so far are much closer to the commish than they are I. Does this change things?

of course. sounds like the commish is lying

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I would think that a scoring change should be something that every player should be informed of--but apparently not. My question is--being that it's obvious that apparently it's not a big concern that major scoring changes are obviously not being told to every member--wouldn't that make the written rules the precedent? Like I said--I'm not bitter--I have zero issues taking the loss-- I've just never had anything like this happen before and wasn't sure if I should be a bit more mad about how things were handled.

Well you've got three sources - the verbal agreement that apparently occurred between all the other owners, the written rules on the website, and the actual scoring settings on the website. Depending on the context, it's debatable what takes precedence over what, but two out of three indicate that you no longer get points for fumble recoveries.

For some context, in my local league with my buddies, we regularly discuss and decide on rule changes at the draft. Commish will make sure they get updated where it matters (i.e. in the scoring settings on the site) but not necessarily in the written rules (which haven't been updated since like 2006). We're all friends, we know what the rules are, and in the event of any confusion, the hierarchy would probably be:

- Commissioner's word

- Scoring settings on site

- Written rules

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Does everyone else agree that this was discussed at the draft? If so then he just forgot to change the bylaws (but apparently DID remember to update the live scoring) and the discussion takes precedence.

I just heard back from 2 other team owners who were at the draft earlier than I. Neither of them had any recollection of this scoring parameter being discussed or changed. I'm waiting on hearing back from more--but including me--this makes 3 owners that were unaware. Does this change things?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I just heard back from two other owners about this issue---who were at the draft earlier than I. They had no recollection of this being discussed at the draft at all.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Should have showed up to the draft a little earlier.

I just heard back from two other owners in the league who were at the draft earlier than I. Neither of them have any recollection of this being discussed at all. Does this change things in your opinion?

 

[elbowrm]

So you've heard from six other owners who were at the draft?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

No--the commish is not my opponent this week and overall I think the commish is a decent guy. However--at this point--I've heard from 3 other owners (so 4 including me--33% of the league) that nobody was aware of this scoring parameter being changed. With this being the case-- wouldn't it make sense to rely on the written rules of the league?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So you've heard from six other owners who were at the draft?

No--I just heard from one more---so theres three other owners (4 including myself) that were unaware of the change. So far this accounts for 33% of the league. I'm waiting on hearing back from more.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

wouldn't it make sense to rely on the written rules of the league?

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

No

I certainly don't want to be that guy

 

[jvdesigns2002]

wouldn't it make sense to rely on the written rules of the league?

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

No

I certainly don't want to be that guy

I don't understand your rationale here. Lots of decent people are capable of making mistakes or remembering things improperly. While I certainly don't want to be a "d-bag"--I also don't want to be getting screwed over by a scoring rule error--even if it was made by a decent guy. I just want a fair resolution. So far the written rules back my side, and the word of 3 other owners--does this still make me "that guy"?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I would think that a scoring change should be something that every player should be informed of--but apparently not. My question is--being that it's obvious that apparently it's not a big concern that major scoring changes are obviously not being told to every member--wouldn't that make the written rules the precedent? Like I said--I'm not bitter--I have zero issues taking the loss-- I've just never had anything like this happen before and wasn't sure if I should be a bit more mad about how things were handled.

here is where you are starting to sound like "that guy"....you say you are not bitter but I think you are just sayin that because you are upset and you know you will sound like "that guy" if you don't throw out that disclaimer....

there have to have been be more then just those other two guys.....check with some others....those two guys could have been at the keg when it was discussed.....

as a commish....as is mentioned above.....sometimes updating the "written rules" takes a backseat.....if it was changed at the draft, that takes precedent over the written rules.....don't be booty hurt cause you showed up right before draft time and somebody didn't make a big ordeal about making sure you were updated on everything that was discussed.....

if it really wasn't discussed at the draft.....assuming it is a 12 team league.....you should have 11 other guys that have no recollection of it and it should be easy to fix and know the commish is lying....but if he made the effort to change it in the scoring settings....I am betting it was discussed and agreed upon....you having input/a vote, etc is a seperate issue.....

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I would think that a scoring change should be something that every player should be informed of--but apparently not. My question is--being that it's obvious that apparently it's not a big concern that major scoring changes are obviously not being told to every member--wouldn't that make the written rules the precedent? Like I said--I'm not bitter--I have zero issues taking the loss-- I've just never had anything like this happen before and wasn't sure if I should be a bit more mad about how things were handled.

here is where you are starting to sound like "that guy"....you say you are not bitter but I think you are just sayin that because you are upset and you know you will sound like "that guy" if you don't throw out that disclaimer....

there have to have been be more then just those other two guys.....check with some others....those two guys could have been at the keg when it was discussed.....

as a commish....as is mentioned above.....sometimes updating the "written rules" takes a backseat.....if it was changed at the draft, that takes precedent over the written rules.....don't be booty hurt cause you showed up right before draft time and somebody didn't make a big ordeal about making sure you were updated on everything that was discussed.....

if it really wasn't discussed at the draft.....assuming it is a 12 team league.....you should have 11 other guys that have no recollection of it and it should be easy to fix and know the commish is lying....but if he made the effort to change it in the scoring settings....I am betting it was discussed and agreed upon....you having input/a vote, etc is a seperate issue.....

First of all---thank you for the feedback. In regards to our draft--it is held in a small garage that has been converted to a man cave---and there are no kegs there. It is impossible logistically for something to happen at our draft where so far 4 people would be full unaware of it. I don't have all of the contact info for everybody in the league--but so far everybody that I have heard back from has zero recollection of a change being discussed--and certainly not voted upon. As of now--the written league rules back my side--along with every response that I've gotten from every other owner. With this being the case so far--you don't think I have any reason to be slightly bitter?

 

[ebsteelers]

check the box scores of other particpants and see if its counted for anyone else.. and tell him to update the page

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Sounds like the league agreed that no points were to be awarded for fumble recoveries. Perhaps you should have been informed by your league mates on the day of the draft. Does the league require unanimous votes to change scoring rules?

I would think that a scoring change should be something that every player should be informed of--but apparently not. My question is--being that it's obvious that apparently it's not a big concern that major scoring changes are obviously not being told to every member--wouldn't that make the written rules the precedent? Like I said--I'm not bitter--I have zero issues taking the loss-- I've just never had anything like this happen before and wasn't sure if I should be a bit more mad about how things were handled.

here is where you are starting to sound like "that guy"....you say you are not bitter but I think you are just sayin that because you are upset and you know you will sound like "that guy" if you don't throw out that disclaimer....

there have to have been be more then just those other two guys.....check with some others....those two guys could have been at the keg when it was discussed.....

as a commish....as is mentioned above.....sometimes updating the "written rules" takes a backseat.....if it was changed at the draft, that takes precedent over the written rules.....don't be booty hurt cause you showed up right before draft time and somebody didn't make a big ordeal about making sure you were updated on everything that was discussed.....

if it really wasn't discussed at the draft.....assuming it is a 12 team league.....you should have 11 other guys that have no recollection of it and it should be easy to fix and know the commish is lying....but if he made the effort to change it in the scoring settings....I am betting it was discussed and agreed upon....you having input/a vote, etc is a seperate issue.....

First of all---thank you for the feedback. In regards to our draft--it is held in a small garage that has been converted to a man cave---and there are no kegs there. It is impossible logistically for something to happen at our draft where so far 4 people would be full unaware of it. I don't have all of the contact info for everybody in the league--but so far everybody that I have heard back from has zero recollection of a change being discussed--and certainly not voted upon. As of now--the written league rules back my side--along with every response that I've gotten from every other owner. With this being the case so far--you don't think I have any reason to be slightly bitter?

if you're bitter.....be bitter....thats up to you......just don't say/pretend that you are not.....

until you find out from all the other owners I would error on the side of it having been decided upon/agreed upon......hard to imagine the commish just picking out this particular rule and changing it on his own just for the heck of it......

this should probably generate some discussion in your league about how rules or changes are made....?....are they voted on...?....are they proposed by the commish and if no "objections" he just makes the change.....etc....that is an issue right now....

you might try to take that approach with him and use this as an example when you are just "asking for clarification" on how rules/changes are made.....you haven't really given us an answer to that important question, you just said "it (vote) didn't happen".....should it have happened.....how does your league handle it....?

full disclosure: I've been that guy before and tried to make disclaimers like you did....the bitterness/anger whatever still shines through.....it's not pretty....just be up front and politely ask for clarification about something that happened before you showed up.....

 

[JAK Straw]

Look back over the results for the first three weeks of the season for all of the teams in your league and see whether any players who recovered fumbles were given the three points - you can go thru the NFL box scores and look at the fumbles section to find offensive players who had fumble recoveries, and compare that with the weekly results from your league website. If nobody has gotten the points all year then the commish is being honest and simply forgot to update the written rules -i.e. the "new" rule is being applied evenly and fairly. If you find even one example of a player getting the points this year, then something is amiss.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

wouldn't it make sense to rely on the written rules of the league?

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

No

I certainly don't want to be that guy

I don't understand your rationale here. Lots of decent people are capable of making mistakes or remembering things improperly. While I certainly don't want to be a "d-bag"--I also don't want to be getting screwed over by a scoring rule error--even if it was made by a decent guy. I just want a fair resolution. So far the written rules back my side, and the word of 3 other owners--does this still make me "that guy"?

Here's where it sort of gets into "that guy" territory:

* The commissioner told you that the rule was changed prior to the draft. Do you think he's flat out lying to you? You already indicated no. Could he just be misremembering what happened? Of course, that's always a possibility. But instead of saying, "Oh, ok, my bad, I wasn't there," you went and started surveying other owners to check if your commissioner was telling you the truth. If I were you, it would've ended for me as soon as I asked the commissioner about it. No need to openly doubt a friend and a guy you all trust to run the league, imo.

* The rule in question isn't something that would have impacted your strategy in any way. It's not like he changed a rule stating that QBs no longer get any points for rushing yards or TDs, and didn't tell you, so you went into the draft targeting Cam Newton or something. The fact that you might've gotten 3 points and a win because your RB recovered a fumble would be the very definition of luck, so it's not like you "deserve" the win or something, as if you drafted and started Bernard knowing he was statistically likely to recover a fumble this week. If commish had asked you, prior to week 1, "Hey jv, I'm thinking of getting rid of the points for fumble recoveries, are you cool with that?" would your answer have been no? Are you only opposed to the change because now, in week 4, it apparently cost you a win? Be honest. If the answer is yes, then you should let it go.

* It's magic football. Yeah, we all like to take it way too seriously and obviously want to win, but to gripe over something like this isn't worth it in a league of friends IMO. You win some, you lose some. Again, getting those 3 points would've been entirely a stroke of luck and not at all representative of your skill as a fantasy owner. Not worth it, imo.

 

[TheCommish]

Rules changes that happen prior to the draft should be announced when ALL league members are present. If no one can verify the commissioner's claim, then you need to go by the written rules.

In the future, just ask the commissioner to send out all rule changes via e-mail at least a week prior to the draft. That way, everyone comes in with a full understanding of what's going on.

 

[shadyridr]

Hey can you reply to this post the same thing you replied 6 other times in this thread? TIA

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Hey can you reply to this post the same thing you replied 6 other times in this thread? TIA

Really? I didn't realize that it was a mistake to respond to each person that spent time out of their busy lives to give me feedback on a topic that I need feedback on. If you ask somebody for advice--and they give it to you--isn't it polite to respond to them individually? I didn't realize that responding to individual posts is grounds for a snarky comment to be made.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

wouldn't it make sense to rely on the written rules of the league?

Do you have some reason to believe the commissioner is lying to you (e.g. is he your opponent this week)?

No

I certainly don't want to be that guy

I don't understand your rationale here. Lots of decent people are capable of making mistakes or remembering things improperly. While I certainly don't want to be a "d-bag"--I also don't want to be getting screwed over by a scoring rule error--even if it was made by a decent guy. I just want a fair resolution. So far the written rules back my side, and the word of 3 other owners--does this still make me "that guy"?

Here's where it sort of gets into "that guy" territory:* The commissioner told you that the rule was changed prior to the draft. Do you think he's flat out lying to you? You already indicated no. Could he just be misremembering what happened? Of course, that's always a possibility. But instead of saying, "Oh, ok, my bad, I wasn't there," you went and started surveying other owners to check if your commissioner was telling you the truth. If I were you, it would've ended for me as soon as I asked the commissioner about it. No need to openly doubt a friend and a guy you all trust to run the league, imo.* The rule in question isn't something that would have impacted your strategy in any way. It's not like he changed a rule stating that QBs no longer get any points for rushing yards or TDs, and didn't tell you, so you went into the draft targeting Cam Newton or something. The fact that you might've gotten 3 points and a win because your RB recovered a fumble would be the very definition of luck, so it's not like you "deserve" the win or something, as if you drafted and started Bernard knowing he was statistically likely to recover a fumble this week. If commish had asked you, prior to week 1, "Hey jv, I'm thinking of getting rid of the points for fumble recoveries, are you cool with that?" would your answer have been no? Are you only opposed to the change because now, in week 4, it apparently cost you a win? Be honest. If the answer is yes, then you should let it go.* It's magic football. Yeah, we all like to take it way too seriously and obviously want to win, but to gripe over something like this isn't worth it in a league of friends IMO. You win some, you lose some. Again, getting those 3 points would've been entirely a stroke of luck and not at all representative of your skill as a fantasy owner. Not worth it, imo.

okay--assuming you have a point that I could have been at the draft earlier---and assuming that people are actually capable of mis-remembering things---how else am I supposed to know that a discussion was had before my arrival than asking other team owners? That alone makes me that guy? Once I get responses from every owner that I'm able to contact--every one of them says there was no discussion or vote on that scoring parameter at all. Not only that, every other update that was discussed at our draft--meaning the addition of points being added for return yards, and the addition of tight ends being allowed in a flex spot were updated on the leagues rules. I don't think I'm going to fight it--but I also disagree that I'm being ridiculous about my concern.

 

[FF Wiseguy]

I'd ask the LM to post about the rule change on the league message board. That will allow anyone who was part of the discussion to verify that they agreed to change the rule on draft day. If not, then maybe at least you can get some support on your side to have the written rules stand and have your score changed.

May get a little messy if the LM takes it personal, but if you're mostly friends, should be able to discuss it without things getting out of hand.

 

[Not Sleeping]

We just wrapped up Week 4. You can't tell me this was the first offensive fumble recovery of the year. However the earlier ones were scored, that's how this one should be.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

okay--assuming you have a point that I could have been at the draft earlier

I didn't make that point.

---and assuming that people are actually capable of mis-remembering things---how else am I supposed to know that a discussion was had before my arrival than asking other team owners? That alone makes me that guy?

Yes, I think so. I didn't say you're supposed to know the discussion was had. I said, if it was me at least, I would trust that the discussion was had. What reason did you have to doubt your commissioner when he told you about the rule change, other than your own self-serving wish that he could have possibly misremembered what happened?

If your commissioner told you he ate a cheeseburger at the draft before you showed up, would you go around asking other owners if he really ate a cheeseburger? Of course not, that would be absurd. What reason would you have to doubt him about that? Well at the time you asked him about the rule change, you apparently didn't seem to have any reason to doubt whatever he said about that, either. It's only once you didn't get the answer that you wanted, that you decided your commissioner might not be trustworthy and surveyed other league owners to see if he was mistaken or lying. So yes, I think that makes you that guy.

I don't think I'm going to fight it--but I also disagree that I'm being ridiculous about my concern.

I didn't say you were being ridiculous. But if I was going to call something to your attention, you asked a question in the Shark Pool, didn't really like the answer you got from the first few responders, and instead of saying, "Hmm, ok, maybe I should let it go," you're fighting it and prodding to get the answer you want to hear. Sense a theme?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

Our league does not use a "system" to calculate the scores. It is an independent league where the commish manually tallies the scores--so it's not that he changed something electronically to add or not add fumble recoveries in. Our commish does get paid for his services by the way. I am just surprised and shocked that nobody thinks it is weird that no other owner in the same league that I play in was aware of any rule change, that the scoring parameters on the website back my argument--but yet--the only thing that the other members of the shark pool think is that I'm being "that guy". Everybody is entitled is to their opinions-- and I appreciate yours--but I would absolutely bet that the vast majority of posters in here that say that I should let it go and not do anything would not feel the same way should the exact same thing were to happen to them--with the same parameters in place. I think it's very easy to say "do nothing and let it go--although every bit of evidence supports your argument"--when the person being punished is not you.

 

[Mr.Pack]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

Does this change things?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

okay--assuming you have a point that I could have been at the draft earlier

I didn't make that point.

---and assuming that people are actually capable of mis-remembering things---how else am I supposed to know that a discussion was had before my arrival than asking other team owners? That alone makes me that guy?

Yes, I think so. I didn't say you're supposed to know the discussion was had. I said, if it was me at least, I would trust that the discussion was had. What reason did you have to doubt your commissioner when he told you about the rule change, other than your own self-serving wish that he could have possibly misremembered what happened?If your commissioner told you he ate a cheeseburger at the draft before you showed up, would you go around asking other owners if he really ate a cheeseburger? Of course not, that would be absurd. What reason would you have to doubt him about that? Well at the time you asked him about the rule change, you apparently didn't seem to have any reason to doubt whatever he said about that, either. It's only once you didn't get the answer that you wanted, that you decided your commissioner might not be trustworthy and surveyed other league owners to see if he was mistaken or lying. So yes, I think that makes you that guy.

I don't think I'm going to fight it--but I also disagree that I'm being ridiculous about my concern.

I didn't say you were being ridiculous. But if I was going to call something to your attention, you asked a question in the Shark Pool, didn't really like the answer you got from the first few responders, and instead of saying, "Hmm, ok, maybe I should let it go," you're fighting it and prodding to get the answer you want to hear. Sense a theme?

You think I'm "that guy"--- and you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not here to argue what you think of my personality as I have never met you. I made a post about the situation of my league--stating nothing but facts--and even said that our commish was a decent guy. The only answer you have said is that "im being "that guy"--even though every actual piece of evidence is to my favor. If I'm told that there was a rule change that I was unaware of that wasn't change on the leagues rule board--you are saying that I'm a d*** for following it up by texting other owners in the league? If that defines me as being "that guy"---then so be it. I play fantasy football with a group of friends--we are all competitive guys-- and we all want to win. Whatever the case may be--I think we have to choose to disagree--and I'll do so without implying anything negative about your personality. Thanks for the input.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

Does this change things?

You provided input and feedback and I thank you for your time. I was expecting more people to see my point of view--but apparently I was wrong.

 

[zoonation]

given the way scores are being calculated (commish and a calculator) I bet the answer here is that he forgot about crediting offensive fumble recoveries and was only made aware of it by the OP. To avoid looking stupid and going back to recalculate all previous weeks, he simply says there was a rule change.

Now, if this is in fact a lie, and verified by all other league members, the commish should step down and all previous scores should be recalculated including the OP's week 4 game.

You don't just make #### up on the fly because you screwed up. If there was in fact no discussion of a rule change in the league, the rule should apply, and it should apply retroactively.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

Our league does not use a "system" to calculate the scores. It is an independent league where the commish manually tallies the scores--so it's not that he changed something electronically to add or not add fumble recoveries in. Our commish does get paid for his services by the way. I am just surprised and shocked that nobody thinks it is weird that no other owner in the same league that I play in was aware of any rule change, that the scoring parameters on the website back my argument--but yet--the only thing that the other members of the shark pool think is that I'm being "that guy". Everybody is entitled is to their opinions-- and I appreciate yours--but I would absolutely bet that the vast majority of posters in here that say that I should let it go and not do anything would not feel the same way should the exact same thing were to happen to them--with the same parameters in place. I think it's very easy to say "do nothing and let it go--although every bit of evidence supports your argument"--when the person being punished is not you.

so you have a "website" with scoring parameters.......but the commish manually tallies scores....

I'd get a new website.....

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So I was going through the box score for my team and noticed that giovanni bernard wasn't given 3 points for recovering a fumble. I email the commish telling him this---and he said that he was no longer issuing points for fumble recoveries and that this was discussed at the draft.

Doesn't the fact that he changed the way the website calculates the score, tell you that he's not making up the rule change?

You came in here asking for advice. You were repeatedly told something you obviously didn't want to hear.

You lost, and should have. If you make a big stink about this in your league - and it seems you're obviously already starting to do that, you will be "that guy". If I was you, I'd move on. There was no injustice here. The commish just forgot to update the written rules after he manually went in and changed the league settings - unless you think he quickly went on and changed them after Gio recovered a fumble to somehow screw you, despite the fact he wasn't even playing against you.

Our league does not use a "system" to calculate the scores. It is an independent league where the commish manually tallies the scores--so it's not that he changed something electronically to add or not add fumble recoveries in. Our commish does get paid for his services by the way. I am just surprised and shocked that nobody thinks it is weird that no other owner in the same league that I play in was aware of any rule change, that the scoring parameters on the website back my argument--but yet--the only thing that the other members of the shark pool think is that I'm being "that guy". Everybody is entitled is to their opinions-- and I appreciate yours--but I would absolutely bet that the vast majority of posters in here that say that I should let it go and not do anything would not feel the same way should the exact same thing were to happen to them--with the same parameters in place. I think it's very easy to say "do nothing and let it go--although every bit of evidence supports your argument"--when the person being punished is not you.

so you have a "website" with scoring parameters.......but the commish manually tallies scores....

I'd get a new website.....

The website is also independent---the commish literally pays godaddy.com to house and maintain our website. Nothing is done by a secondary site like cbs or espn---it is truly an independent league in every respect. There is "no using" a new website as everything--including the website--is done in an independent fashion. It would literally be as if you and your buddies started a fantasy league and you created its own website on godaddy and manually calculated scores.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I made a post about the situation of my league--stating nothing but facts--and even said that our commish was a decent guy. The only answer you have said is that "im being "that guy"

That's not the only answer I said.

--even though every actual piece of evidence is to my favor.

No it isn't. The commissioner told you the rule was changed prior to the draft. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor. Fumbles have presumably been scored without the three points all year long. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor.

Basically, you believe that the commissioner is making an error by not awarding three points to fumble recoveries, right?

The fact that your entire league did not notice that error all the way through the regular season basically "locks" that the scoring error is something that the entire league has indirectly "agreed" upon.

Should've said something sooner then, I guess. There have already been a bunch of fumble recoveries that presumably didn't receive the three points this season, and the fact that the error wasn't caught until now means your league has indirectly agreed that you don't get points for fumble recoveries.

 

[PatsFanCT]

It's probably already been said here, but why would you ever give points to an offensive player recovering their own teams fumbe? That rule should have been removed, so you're now where you should be.

 

[elbowrm]

Sorry OP if you've answered this, but have you checked scores from other fumble recoveries from this year - Calvin from this week, etc.

 

[zoonation]

I made a post about the situation of my league--stating nothing but facts--and even said that our commish was a decent guy. The only answer you have said is that "im being "that guy"

That's not the only answer I said.

--even though every actual piece of evidence is to my favor.

No it isn't. The commissioner told you the rule was changed prior to the draft. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor. Fumbles have presumably been scored without the three points all year long. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor.

Basically, you believe that the commissioner is making an error by not awarding three points to fumble recoveries, right?

The fact that your entire league did not notice that error all the way through the regular season basically "locks" that the scoring error is something that the entire league has indirectly "agreed" upon.

Should've said something sooner then, I guess. There have already been a bunch of fumble recoveries that presumably didn't receive the three points this season, and the fact that the error wasn't caught until now means your league has indirectly agreed that you don't get points for fumble recoveries.

I agree with you if other people in the league knew of the rule change. Even just a couple of them. But if it is the case that the rule change was never in fact discussed, then it matters not that no one else got points for fumble recoveries, because they should have been getting points for them and, in my view, are still entitled to them.It all hinges on whether the commish is lying or not. Thus far, there is no evidence to corroborate his story. The fact that no one else got points is equally explained by him forgetting about the rule as it is with a known and agreed upon rule change. In the face of 4 different owners not knowing about the supposed rule change, I'd say it is looking like he forgot and is covering his tracks.

If I was the OP I would contact all other owners. If the commish is lying the integrity of the league is compromised and he should be replaced. Especially given how they calculate scores. Jesus...

 

[B-Deep]

don't play in a league with #####

i am not sure if this advice is to the OP or to the others in the league, but it is good advice for someone

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I made a post about the situation of my league--stating nothing but facts--and even said that our commish was a decent guy. The only answer you have said is that "im being "that guy"

That's not the only answer I said.

--even though every actual piece of evidence is to my favor.

No it isn't. The commissioner told you the rule was changed prior to the draft. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor. Fumbles have presumably been scored without the three points all year long. That's a piece of evidence that isn't in your favor.Basically, you believe that the commissioner is making an error by not awarding three points to fumble recoveries, right?

The fact that your entire league did not notice that error all the way through the regular season basically "locks" that the scoring error is something that the entire league has indirectly "agreed" upon.

Should've said something sooner then, I guess. There have already been a bunch of fumble recoveries that presumably didn't receive the three points this season, and the fact that the error wasn't caught until now means your league has indirectly agreed that you don't get points for fumble recoveries.

I respect and understand your point of view. If you want to go back and dig up comments I made in January about a scoring glitch in somebody esles league that wasnt found until the fantasy playoffs--where the commish made clear a rule but inputted it in the leagues scoring system improperly ---versus a situation where the written rules in this league are clear--to where the commish is making a claim that no other team owner is backing up--in week 4--thats on you. You are entitled to your opinion and you choose to have a differing point of view about my thoughts on various situations and about me personally. I'm not here to change your mind nor anybody esles--I merely wanted feedback and I understand where you stand. Thank you.