A rules/scoring issue--would like some feedback from the Shark Pool (1 Viewer)

[jomar]

I wonder if removing the fumble recovery scoring helped the commish win a game earlier this year. might be interesting....

I'd also ask the league if there are any other scoring changes agreed to on draft day that you should be aware of.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I agree with you if other people in the league knew of the rule change. Even just a couple of them. But if it is the case that the rule change was never in fact discussed, then it matters not that no one else got points for fumble recoveries, because they should have been getting points for them and, in my view, are still entitled to them.

It all hinges on whether the commish is lying or not. Thus far, there is no evidence to corroborate his story. The fact that no one else got points is equally explained by him forgetting about the rule as it is with a known and agreed upon rule change. In the face of 4 different owners not knowing about the supposed rule change, I'd say it is looking like he forgot and is covering his tracks.

If I was the OP I would contact all other owners. If the commish is lying the integrity of the league is compromised and he should be replaced. Especially given how they calculate scores. Jesus...

I agree with this. This is a situation that, unfortunately for OP, we can't really give a right or wrong answer to. It's highly dependent on league dynamics, issues of trust, etc. I'm still kind of feeling that a handful of other owners not remembering the rule change isn't quite proof of anything, though it certainly doesn't help the commissioner's case.

Again, just for some context, in the local buddy league I mentioned upthread, we always discuss rule changes prior to the draft. Half the guys are like, "Yeah, ok whatever," and everyone just wants to get the draft started. Then we spend hours drinking and drafting and drinking some more, and by the end of the night I usually don't remember all the #### we talked about before the draft started, and I'm one of the owners who actually takes an interest and pays attention when this stuff is brought up. But I trust that my commissioner has written down all the stuff we talked about and implemented the rule changes as they were agreed on by the owners. Sometimes he just asks a couple of us about a minor rule change like this, because he knows the other half of the league doesn't care and wouldn't object. So if this kind of thing happened in my league, there's no way I'd trust the word of other owners, even many of them, if their take disagreed with the commissioner's. That's the whole point of a commissioner, you have to trust that they're managing this stuff properly - sadly, many don't, and only OP knows where on the spectrum his own commissioner falls. All of these kinds of issues are league-specific, and I always feel bad for folks start these threads talking about their leagues where they can't even trust a friend to run things the right way.

My opinion was, and still is, that you don't bicker about crap like this in a league among friends. But obviously if the commissioner is lying (intentionally, or to cover his tracks for a mistake, or whatever) then he has to go, especially with this nonsense about still calculating scores by hand and whatnot. No excuse for that in 2013 - even if you want to host the league on your own domain the scoring should still be done on the site.

 

[glumpy]

I agree with you if other people in the league knew of the rule change. Even just a couple of them. But if it is the case that the rule change was never in fact discussed, then it matters not that no one else got points for fumble recoveries, because they should have been getting points for them and, in my view, are still entitled to them.

It all hinges on whether the commish is lying or not. Thus far, there is no evidence to corroborate his story. The fact that no one else got points is equally explained by him forgetting about the rule as it is with a known and agreed upon rule change. In the face of 4 different owners not knowing about the supposed rule change, I'd say it is looking like he forgot and is covering his tracks.

If I was the OP I would contact all other owners. If the commish is lying the integrity of the league is compromised and he should be replaced. Especially given how they calculate scores. Jesus...

I agree with this. This is a situation that, unfortunately for OP, we can't really give a right or wrong answer to. It's highly dependent on league dynamics, issues of trust, etc. I'm still kind of feeling that a handful of other owners not remembering the rule change isn't quite proof of anything, though it certainly doesn't help the commissioner's case.

Again, just for some context, in the local buddy league I mentioned upthread, we always discuss rule changes prior to the draft. Half the guys are like, "Yeah, ok whatever," and everyone just wants to get the draft started. Then we spend hours drinking and drafting and drinking some more, and by the end of the night I usually don't remember all the #### we talked about before the draft started, and I'm one of the owners who actually takes an interest and pays attention when this stuff is brought up. But I trust that my commissioner has written down all the stuff we talked about and implemented the rule changes as they were agreed on by the owners. Sometimes he just asks a couple of us about a minor rule change like this, because he knows the other half of the league doesn't care and wouldn't object. So if this kind of thing happened in my league, there's no way I'd trust the word of other owners, even many of them, if their take disagreed with the commissioner's. That's the whole point of a commissioner, you have to trust that they're managing this stuff properly - sadly, many don't, and only OP knows where on the spectrum his own commissioner falls. All of these kinds of issues are league-specific, and I always feel bad for folks start these threads talking about their leagues where they can't even trust a friend to run things the right way.

My opinion was, and still is, that you don't bicker about crap like this in a league among friends. But obviously if the commissioner is lying (intentionally, or to cover his tracks for a mistake, or whatever) then he has to go, especially with this nonsense about still calculating scores by hand and whatnot. No excuse for that in 2013 - even if you want to host the league on your own domain the scoring should still be done on the site.

Objective and sensible. I would add that the OP might check into all previous instances this year to verify that the rule has been applied in the same manner. Given that these scores are all apparently totaled by hand that will take some work but should be straightforward enough with the box scores. I would also think that it might be time for the league to look at paying a professional site for this service instead of paying the commish.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

given the way scores are being calculated (commish and a calculator) I bet the answer here is that he forgot about crediting offensive fumble recoveries and was only made aware of it by the OP. To avoid looking stupid and going back to recalculate all previous weeks, he simply says there was a rule change.Now, if this is in fact a lie, and verified by all other league members, the commish should step down and all previous scores should be recalculated including the OP's week 4 game.You don't just make #### up on the fly because you screwed up. If there was in fact no discussion of a rule change in the league, the rule should apply, and it should apply retroactively.

This is honestly what I think happened. I think that because our scores an manually inputted--and the double checking involved for scoring this properly takes soo much time--that perhaps didn't want to put the time and effort into doing so. Points for fumbles recovered are only awarded if the player recovers another players fumble--so every fumble would have to be investigated to see if it was their own. Maybe the commish meant to say something at the draft but never did. In any case, I thank you for your feedback and input.

 

[zoonation]

For me the key is whether he is lying or not. If no one in the league recalls a rule change then there is a problem.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sorry OP if you've answered this, but have you checked scores from other fumble recoveries from this year - Calvin from this week, etc.

I have not had a chance to go back through and check this out. My personal opinion (not that it matters) is that the commish most likely wanted to eliminate the scoring parameter because the research involved in figuring out if each fumble recovered was from a different player--as we aren't awarded points for fumbles recovered by the same player who actually fumbled the ball--is very time consuming. However, based on what the other team owners have told me-- nobody so far recollects any discussion of this change by the commish--and of course no match has been close enough to where any owner has had reason to check their scores to catch this glitch. I'm certainly open to going back and checking to see if any points were awarded in the past--and I would have zero issue with those points being issued--even if they resulted on costing me a loss in an earlier week. Thank you again for your time and input.

 

[boots11234]

Sorry OP if you've answered this, but have you checked scores from other fumble recoveries from this year - Calvin from this week, etc.

I have not had a chance to go back through and check this out. My personal opinion (not that it matters) is that the commish most likely wanted to eliminate the scoring parameter because the research involved in figuring out if each fumble recovered was from a different player--as we aren't awarded points for fumbles recovered by the same player who actually fumbled the ball--is very time consuming. However, based on what the other team owners have told me-- nobody so far recollects any discussion of this change by the commish--and of course no match has been close enough to where any owner has had reason to check their scores to catch this glitch. I'm certainly open to going back and checking to see if any points were awarded in the past--and I would have zero issue with those points being issued--even if they resulted on costing me a loss in an earlier week. Thank you again for your time and input.

Are you Asian? You're very polite even to d bags hammering you for asking a simple question. If it matters I think you got screwed, no way was the league made aware if 4 people don't remember. We're you all drunk?

 

[CoachJankySpanky]

Relieve your commissioner and his adding machine of his paid duties and use that $ to pay a website to do the job. Geez, a free website will do a better job than your commish and his abacus. You and your league members should get a search warrant for his filing cabinet.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sorry OP if you've answered this, but have you checked scores from other fumble recoveries from this year - Calvin from this week, etc.

I have not had a chance to go back through and check this out. My personal opinion (not that it matters) is that the commish most likely wanted to eliminate the scoring parameter because the research involved in figuring out if each fumble recovered was from a different player--as we aren't awarded points for fumbles recovered by the same player who actually fumbled the ball--is very time consuming. However, based on what the other team owners have told me-- nobody so far recollects any discussion of this change by the commish--and of course no match has been close enough to where any owner has had reason to check their scores to catch this glitch. I'm certainly open to going back and checking to see if any points were awarded in the past--and I would have zero issue with those points being issued--even if they resulted on costing me a loss in an earlier week. Thank you again for your time and input.

Are you Asian? You're very polite even to d bags hammering you for asking a simple question. If it matters I think you got screwed, no way was the league made aware if 4 people don't remember. We're you all drunk?

Lol--no, I'm not Asian--but thank you for the compliment. I think sometimes people forget that the Shark Pool is a place where healthy and polite discussion about a shared interest is supposed to take place--even when we have opposing views. It certainly feels as though some people think it's necessary or cool to make personal insults or attacks when a simple and polite point of view is all that is being asked. In any case--whatever the case--I do respect and thank each and everybody who has spent their time providing feedback on a topic that I needed some input on.

 

[B-Deep]

he really manually scores this league?

how very quaint

does he use a USA today? that would be OLD SCHOOL

 

[CoachJankySpanky]

I would try to look at the bright side in all of this since this is a crappy rule to begin with. Offensive players should not be credited for offensive fumble recoveries anyway. Case in point: If there is a bad QB/RB exchange on a handoff, the fumble is always credited to the QB, even if it may have been the RBs fault. If the RB recovers his own mistake, he should not receive credit for the recovery. Now I may be wrong since I'm not sure it will even show up in the box score as a fumble in that scenario, but it just goes to show that offensive fumble recoveries can sometimes be dicey. It sucks that you may be the guinea pig in all of this, but this can now be the example you can point to that firmly sets the precedent for the future.