Adding and dropping players to screw your opponent (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

FTR, this is the only league I'm in that I would consider doing this. And the main reason I'm leaning towards doing is because of the illogical resistance other owners have put up to making legitimate player add rules.

Why even play in this league if you can't get the rules changed through discussion, rather than stoop to the level of adding/dropping all the kickers?

Sometimes actions speak louder than words. You can't always convince FFL owners of the need to add/change rules. Until they are presented with something that makes it blatantly obvious a change needs to happen, most owners will resist change.I don't think that the manner in which the OP is handling this is against the spirit of the rules, based on the league-wide conversation that took place earlier. The loophole was called out, a change was requested to close it, and the other owners apparently wanted to keep the loophole open. Sometimes you have to give the people what they ask for.

Isn't this the kind of loophole that isn't a problem if it's understood not to do this kind of action? It's only a problem if someone performs the action. If no one ever adds/drops all the kickers or defenses, then it isn't a problem. Having good owners is a good thing.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Isn't this the kind of loophole that isn't a problem if it's understood not to do this kind of action? It's only a problem if someone performs the action. If no one ever adds/drops all the kickers or defenses, then it isn't a problem. Having good owners is a good thing.

If only there were a method of listing all the actions that one couldn't do in the league and making sure all the owners knew for a fact if their action was allowed or not. Some codified list of actions....

 

[JohnnyU]

Isn't this the kind of loophole that isn't a problem if it's understood not to do this kind of action? It's only a problem if someone performs the action. If no one ever adds/drops all the kickers or defenses, then it isn't a problem. Having good owners is a good thing.

If only there were a method of listing all the actions that one couldn't do in the league and making sure all the owners knew for a fact if their action was allowed or not. Some codified list of actions....

It's already been stated that this loophole exists, so everyone knows it's a bad thing, so why do it? Unless of course it's just eating you up inside that the loophole exists. If that were the case for me, I would just leave the league instead of performing this kind of action.

 

[Ramos]

Isn't this the kind of loophole that isn't a problem if it's understood not to do this kind of action? It's only a problem if someone performs the action. If no one ever adds/drops all the kickers or defenses, then it isn't a problem. Having good owners is a good thing.

If only there were a method of listing all the actions that one couldn't do in the league and making sure all the owners knew for a fact if their action was allowed or not. Some codified list of actions....

Him doing this will either make it acceptable or they'll change the rules. Just like Shanny calling timeouts just before the snap on field goals.

 

[Dexter Manley]

FTR, this is the only league I'm in that I would consider doing this. And the main reason I'm leaning towards doing is because of the illogical resistance other owners have put up to making legitimate player add rules.

Why even play in this league if you can't get the rules changed through discussion, rather than stoop to the level of adding/dropping all the kickers?

If I quit the league, I'd never hear the end of it. I would be hearing smack talk 10 years from now, "Oooh, Dexter Manley couldn't hang in our league so he had to quit and go play in his other JV leagues."

 

[j3r3m3y]

Him doing this will either make it acceptable or they'll change the rules. Just like Shanny calling timeouts just before the snap on field goals.

Wow, great example! (no sarcasm here, that is spot on!)

 

[JohnnyU]

Isn't this the kind of loophole that isn't a problem if it's understood not to do this kind of action? It's only a problem if someone performs the action. If no one ever adds/drops all the kickers or defenses, then it isn't a problem. Having good owners is a good thing.

If only there were a method of listing all the actions that one couldn't do in the league and making sure all the owners knew for a fact if their action was allowed or not. Some codified list of actions....

Him doing this will either make it acceptable or they'll change the rules. Just like Shanny calling timeouts just before the snap on field goals.

We're all different. Even though I don't agree with some of the posts in this thread, I understand it. I like to compare this to something in my life with regards to my wife. I like to choose the important battles to win, and let her win all the small stuff. To me, this loophole is small stuff if everyone knows about it and chooses not to cross the line.

 

[-baller]

maybe it's already been mentioned, but usually in leagues like that the player in question isn't put on waivers if he's added and dropped in the same day, specifically to thwart that kind of abuse.

you have to hold them overnight.

 

[JohnnyU]

FTR, this is the only league I'm in that I would consider doing this. And the main reason I'm leaning towards doing is because of the illogical resistance other owners have put up to making legitimate player add rules.

Why even play in this league if you can't get the rules changed through discussion, rather than stoop to the level of adding/dropping all the kickers?

If I quit the league, I'd never hear the end of it. I would be hearing smack talk 10 years from now, "Oooh, Dexter Manley couldn't hang in our league so he had to quit and go play in his other JV leagues."

If that would bother you that much, then knock yourself out and add/drop the kickers.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Normally I am one of the people asking "what did you have for breakfast?" when people post about their specific team or league, but after all this you must keep us updated on what you decided to do and, more importantly, the reaction.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I'll post an update tomorrow.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Here's the email I sent my commish this morning:

Hey, I know this was discussed at the draft, but I want to revisit it to make sure. Currently anyone can pick up and drop as many players as they want without limitation or penalty. Once a player is dropped they are put on the waiver wire for 48 hours during which time they can be claimed.

If my opponent needed a kicker due to a bye week for example, and didn't pick one up by Friday night, would it be legal for me to add and drop every available kicker so none would be available to add until they passed waivers 48 hours later on Sunday night? This would in effect screw my opponent from picking up a kicker for that week's game, and they would be forced to play without one.

You could easily do this with Def/ST's and QB's (if any are ever available) too. If this isn't legal I suggest you post a message on the league site stating such. If it's legal then obviously you don't have to do anything except watch the hysterics and drama the first time someone else does this. Let me know what you think.

FWIW, I warned everyone about this loophole during the draft, but everyone laughed at me, and dismissed it as nonsense.

I think you are doing a great job by the way. Keep up the good work.

X

 

[valhallan]

I'm so glad no one in my leagues is like you.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Here's the email I sent my commish this morning:

Not bad, but I think you gave the commish a bit too much wiggle room by asking "would it be legal". You would have been better off by presenting it as a statement instead of a question (i.e., "In looking over our rules, it clearly looks like it's legal for me to add and drop every available kicker").

 

[Phurfur]

I haven't read the thread but in all of my leagues if you pick up a player you must roster him for at least 1 week.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Here is the commish's full response lol:

I would find this tactic hilarious and genius at the same time

 

[Dexter Manley]

I'm so glad no one in my leagues is like you.

To each his own, bra. You would fit in well with most of the other guys in this league who enjoy playing with crappy rules.

 

[jscout]

I was in a league where this was not illegal. It was presented to the commish and he took the stance that if it happens it happens. It's up to every team to manage their roster and not let that happen to them. It's a competitive advantage to wait until the last minute to get the best replacement player possible so it should work the other way too. He wouldn't even let it be voted on.

So wouldn't you know it, later in the season, the commish, who had only rostered one QB throughout most of the season, opting to hoard RBs instead, faced a bye week. One of the guys who had raised the issue churned all the starting QBs. The commish wasn't happy and raised a stink. But he ended up having to take his medicine because the league unanimously agreed with the churner.

The only thing he could do was issue a statement that such an activity would be illegal going forward and anyone caught doing it would be ejected from the league. The next year he put it in the rules.

So if that's what it takes, do it.

 

[valhallan]

I'm so glad no one in my leagues is like you.

To each his own, bra. You would fit in well with most of the other guys in this league who enjoy playing with crappy rules.

You don't know what kind of leagues I play in or what I prefer. And I don't know much about you other than you have a motive to create "hysterics and drama". So, I'm glad no one in my leagues is like you.ETA - maybe my perspective is just different. This issue is so old I can't believe anyone still plays in leagues with people that don't know about it. My league doesn't need a rule against it because everyone knows it's a #### move and won't do it.

 

[Phurfur]

I was in a league where this was not illegal. It was presented to the commish and he took the stance that if it happens it happens. It's up to every team to manage their roster and not let that happen to them. It's a competitive advantage to wait until the last minute to get the best replacement player possible so it should work the other way too. He wouldn't even let it be voted on.

So wouldn't you know it, later in the season, the commish, who had only rostered one QB throughout most of the season, opting to hoard RBs instead, faced a bye week. One of the guys who had raised the issue churned all the starting QBs. The commish wasn't happy and raised a stink. But he ended up having to take his medicine because the league unanimously agreed with the churner.

The only thing he could do was issue a statement that such an activity would be illegal going forward and anyone caught doing it would be ejected from the league. The next year he put it in the rules.

So if that's what it takes, do it.

I'm in 4 leagues, the Commish in each league would not be allowed to do this. All rule changes must be put to a vote. This guy is one terrible commissioner. I would be looking for a better league.But your point is right on.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I'm so glad no one in my leagues is like you.

To each his own, bra. You would fit in well with most of the other guys in this league who enjoy playing with crappy rules.

You don't know what kind of leagues I play in or what I prefer. And I don't know much about you other than you have a motive to create "hysterics and drama". So, I'm glad no one in my leagues is like you.ETA - maybe my perspective is just different. This issue is so old I can't believe anyone still plays in leagues with people that don't know about it. My league doesn't need a rule against it because everyone knows it's a #### move and won't do it.

My primary motive is to close this loophole. It won't happen this season, as you can read the reply from my commish. So what can I do this year amass enough votes to pass a well structured rule regarding adds/drops next season? The answer: create hysterical drama. You see it's only a matter of time before someone executes Operation: Catch and Release. Why shouldn't I be the first one to do it, and take advantage of it? In this league there are plenty of angle shooters who will do whatever they can get away with to win. Basically if there's not a rule against it, it's fair game. This is why I've taken it upon myself to try and encorporate better rules that will give the league greater integrity. And if I have to create hysterics and drama to accomplish this goal, so be it.

I understand many people would not like playing in a league like this. I don't like the rules. I think they are bogus. If this league was made up of a bunch of people who I wasn't good friends with, I wouldn't be playing in it. I have to say though, that this is the most entertaining league that I play in.

Fwiw, I'm in another league where there is no rule against doing this. I would never dream of doing this in that league. I don't think I can accurately convey to you how many clowns and seedy characters are in my 16 team league in question.

 

[jscout]

I'm in 4 leagues, the Commish in each league would not be allowed to do this. All rule changes must be put to a vote. This guy is one terrible commissioner. I would be looking for a better league.But your point is right on.

You're preaching to the choir. I used to be a commish (including taking over the league I mentioned above) and I put everything to a vote. I never had a problem because I helped closed or clarified all loopholes in my leagues. Sometimes a better league is just a commissioner-change away.

 

[NinerK]

We have a 2 per week rule. 2 total Waiver or FA transactions per week. This rule works pretty well and makes you think twice before adding a player

 

[Sleehrat]

I probably would have been one of the league owners who voted for no rule change, because I'd be thinking - "do we really need to legislate against such stupidity? Are you actually telling me someone would sit there and add/drop all these players just so his opponent couldn't have him???? puhleeze." Sometimes common sense has to prevail in this.

And if you are spending time with Catch & Release, you've got too much time on your hands.

Then again, the lesson of the day is, get your rosters set earlier than Saturday night. Do it Tuesday/Wednesday and be done with it (except for changes in PT during week.)

 

[Sleehrat]

Other thing - if you're commish, the most diplomatic thing to do is send a league email out, reminding owners that catch & release is not against the rules, and it'd be in the owners' best interests to make sure they have picked up the players they want earlier enough. This ensures all owners of the existing loophole that was not closed.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I had a similar experience. I pushed the league to prevent people from churning players for the sole purpose of locking them up. I was voted down. I said, "Doesn't anyone care about this problem?" One dooshy guy said, "You're the only person who cares, which probably means that it's not important hahahaha."Week 2, Baltimore/Houston game gets postponed. And by sheer coincidence, the dooshy guy happens to have the Ravens as his only defense.I immediately add/dropped every single free agent defense except the Texans.Guess who's now crying foul and SCREAMING for a rule change?

My guess would be you after the smart commish trades your opponent your defense for the week. I am betting there is no rule against that either so it must be totally kosher.

 

[Coach3K]

Aside from the issues raised here, the use of the phrase - Operation: Catch and Release - is getting kind of...worn out?

I mean...it's been an entertaining thread, but I'm pretty sure we all know the concept you're referring to at this point.

It just reminds me of old Pauly Shore movies where some silly catchphrase would be used repeatedly throughout until it just grated on my nerves. Sadly, that means I DID watch Pauly Shore movies through the 90's, but hey...we all have our faults! Bud-dy!

I'm not trying to take a personal stab atcha here. I'm just letting you know from an outside perspective that that phrase can probably be retired now.

Good luck with convincing the guys to go along with the rule change next year. Sounds like they are the kind that need to be bit in the rear by something before they'll realize that it's good to have a formal rule against it.

 

[Loan Sharks]

I don't understand why every league doesn't have a "fair play" of "good sportmanship" rule. It give the commish the ability to simply reverse punish or change whatever is in question.

No need for votes, drama or stupidity.

If someone tries to pull a fast one the commish just stops it.

If someone did operation "old stale catch and release like someone has proposed here every year for the last 8 years to guage the reaction to see if they really are acting like a ######## because they don't know how to act properly" then the commish simply lets the guy pick up a defense, nonsense over.

Then when your fiendishly clever plan has failed and you tell the commish he can't do that he can just tell you to quick being a ####.

 

[MrBlonde]

My primary motive is to close this loophole.

You see it's only a matter of time before someone executes Operation: Catch and Release.

Then why not take the high road if it's "only a matter of time" before someone else executes it? Seems that you will get your primary motive accomplished by doing nothing.

Why shouldn't I be the first one to do it, and take advantage of it? In this league there are plenty of angle shooters who will do whatever they can get away with to win.

Sooooooo.... if you play with angle shooters it's okay to be an angle shooter? Nothing against angle shooters but if you want to be a stand-up guy this isn't the play. But hey if you're okay with it, more power to you. Remember integrity is hard to earn but easy to lose.

 

[Dexter Manley]

Well it looks like my fickle friend actually planned ahead for once and picked up Scobee, along with some doing some other moves. I found out yesterday that he was going to the Maroon 5 concert on Friday, so I thought it was more likely that he would make his moves ahead of time.

In another turn of events, I was discussing my plan today with a friend of mine who is in my same division. He is on my side WRT rule changes. This has turned out to be a somewhat ill-advised decision on my part, because his opponent this week has yet to pick up a D/ST (his only D/ST is on a bye), and it just so happens his laptop crapped out recently so he is without a computer, and likely to not make any changes until this weekend. Now my division mate is planning on unleashing his own Operation: Catch and Release on his opponent, targeting all of the available D/ST's. I advised him to clear it with the commish first (this is before I got the commish's response).

I'll be talking to my friend without a laptop later tonight, as I do every Thursday. It looks like I'll have to tell him something along the lines of -- "What I'm about to tell you is off the record. I trust that you will not repeat this conversation and I will vehemently deny ever having said anything if you do. Pick up a D/ST for this week's game TONIGHT." This will give me plausible deniability if my division-mate accuses me of tipping my other friend off.

 

[Sleehrat]

Chances are good that your "friend" in your division actually tipped off the Maroon 5 guy to pick up player early. It's to your friend's benefit that maroon 5 dude be fully stocked against you this week.

What's funnier is that your friend played along and agreed with your stance. Brilliant!!

Trust no one.

This all sounds so Shakespearean

 

[blake]

I was in a league where this was not illegal. It was presented to the commish and he took the stance that if it happens it happens. It's up to every team to manage their roster and not let that happen to them. It's a competitive advantage to wait until the last minute to get the best replacement player possible so it should work the other way too. He wouldn't even let it be voted on.

So wouldn't you know it, later in the season, the commish, who had only rostered one QB throughout most of the season, opting to hoard RBs instead, faced a bye week. One of the guys who had raised the issue churned all the starting QBs. The commish wasn't happy and raised a stink. But he ended up having to take his medicine because the league unanimously agreed with the churner.

The only thing he could do was issue a statement that such an activity would be illegal going forward and anyone caught doing it would be ejected from the league. The next year he put it in the rules.

So if that's what it takes, do it.

I'm in 4 leagues, the Commish in each league would not be allowed to do this. All rule changes must be put to a vote. This guy is one terrible commissioner. I would be looking for a better league.

interesting - was thinking the same thing when i read that.

 

[kinglochness]

First-great post, i have killed 45 minutes laughing my way tthrough it

second-the sportsmanship rule, ahole rule, or that guy rule always seems to be unspoken until it is too late. if you've brought it up and no one listened, prove your point

third-yahoo willl let you set your waivers to a free for all or waiting period (24, 48, or even 72 hours)

again, great post, worth the price of my subscription by itself

 

[Bandit]

I think people who say that we don't need specific rules, but rather just generalizations such as "don't be an a**hole" are off base for the simple reason that everyone has a different defintion of a**hole behavior.

For example, if someone in my league picked up and dropped every kicker, 12 out of 12 owners would consider this unsportsmanlike behavior. However, let's say it's Monday afternoon and it's announced that Ben Roethlisberger is hurt and out for that night's game, and the team playing against Roethlisberger quickly picks up both Leftwich and Flacco. Is this unsportsmanlike or just great strategy? In my league, opinions would probably be about 50-50 on each side.

It's too bad that Dexter Manley's opponent picked up a kicker already, but here's what I would have suggested: Go ahead and pick up and drop every kicker to ensure that the opponent won't have one on Sunday. Then send an e-mail to the league proposing that a new rule be implemented to prevent this strategy in the future, and that the rules should be changed immediately so that the opponent can pick up and start a kicker right away. If the league still doesn't get it, then remove the kicker from your own starting lineup for this week to prove that your intentions really were to fix the loophole, not to gain an unfair advantage for this weeks game.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Well it looks like my fickle friend actually planned ahead for once and picked up Scobee, along with some doing some other moves. I found out yesterday that he was going to the Maroon 5 concert on Friday, so I thought it was more likely that he would make his moves ahead of time.

In another turn of events, I was discussing my plan today with a friend of mine who is in my same division. He is on my side WRT rule changes. This has turned out to be a somewhat ill-advised decision on my part, because his opponent this week has yet to pick up a D/ST (his only D/ST is on a bye), and it just so happens his laptop crapped out recently so he is without a computer, and likely to not make any changes until this weekend. Now my division mate is planning on unleashing his own Operation: Catch and Release on his opponent, targeting all of the available D/ST's. I advised him to clear it with the commish first (this is before I got the commish's response).



I'll be talking to my friend without a laptop later tonight, as I do every Thursday. It looks like I'll have to tell him something along the lines of -- "What I'm about to tell you is off the record. I trust that you will not repeat this conversation and I will vehemently deny ever having said anything if you do. Pick up a D/ST for this week's game TONIGHT." This will give me plausible deniability if my division-mate accuses me of tipping my other friend off.

It may give you plausible denyability but it also transforms you from someone willing to do something questionable but with good reason (your first post) into an outright liar. If you are going to tip your buddy off, sack up and admit to it.

 

[j3r3m3y]

It's too bad that Dexter Manley's opponent picked up a kicker already, but here's what I would have suggested: Go ahead and pick up and drop every kicker to ensure that the opponent won't have one on Sunday. Then send an e-mail to the league proposing that a new rule be implemented to prevent this strategy in the future, and that the rules should be changed immediately so that the opponent can pick up and start a kicker right away. If the league still doesn't get it, then remove the kicker from your own starting lineup for this week to prove that your intentions really were to fix the loophole, not to gain an unfair advantage for this weeks game.

The real move here is to keep the best kicker... then talk trade.

 

[davearm]

Well it looks like my fickle friend actually planned ahead for once and picked up Scobee, along with some doing some other moves. I found out yesterday that he was going to the Maroon 5 concert on Friday, so I thought it was more likely that he would make his moves ahead of time.

In another turn of events, I was discussing my plan today with a friend of mine who is in my same division. He is on my side WRT rule changes. This has turned out to be a somewhat ill-advised decision on my part, because his opponent this week has yet to pick up a D/ST (his only D/ST is on a bye), and it just so happens his laptop crapped out recently so he is without a computer, and likely to not make any changes until this weekend. Now my division mate is planning on unleashing his own Operation: Catch and Release on his opponent, targeting all of the available D/ST's. I advised him to clear it with the commish first (this is before I got the commish's response).

I'll be talking to my friend without a laptop later tonight, as I do every Thursday. It looks like I'll have to tell him something along the lines of -- "What I'm about to tell you is off the record. I trust that you will not repeat this conversation and I will vehemently deny ever having said anything if you do. Pick up a D/ST for this week's game TONIGHT." This will give me plausible deniability if my division-mate accuses me of tipping my other friend off.

Wait a minute here.You said a few posts above this that your motive was to get a loophole closed.

Now if you just keep your yap shut, that loophole might get closed with someone else besides you playing the role of the ahole, and the poor schmoe with the bum laptop being the victim.

And your response is to tip the guy that's about to be the victim? What gives there?

Sounds more like your motive is not to close a loophole at all. Your motive is (or was) purely to screw your opponent -- which you're clearly disappointed about no longer being in a position to do.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

You should probably start playing in a waiver only league. With that said, I have been known to pick up and drop two to three top players in yahoo leagues when my opponent is in need.

 

[zanti8]

have a rule a player added can not be dropped for 48 hours . it would be a pain to monitor manually though .

you can also limit adds per week for a league . a league could vote a weekly limit of 4 or 5 ....

 

[Bad_Mo]

You definitely should have a transaction fee...$1, $2...per transaction (if you do not already). For guys that are picked up and dropped in a 24-hour period, there should be a $5 or $10 fee. That would discourage the douchebaggery.

 

[fsufan]

i could of done the same thing a few years ago to my opponent in the FF playoff but with a QB. It would not of been against the rules but I did not do it because it was just wrong

 

[HoTnickZ]

d-bag move, d-bag league

 

[CaptainHook]

hahahaah holy #### this topic is insane.

you guys are acting like its some egregious thing for his opponent to miss out on kicker points

what part of 'ultra-competitive' don't you understand???

you push every rule and every loophole to the limit while watching your back at all times. My league is the same way and I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[HoTnickZ]

hahahaah holy #### this topic is insane.you guys are acting like its some egregious thing for his opponent to miss out on kicker pointswhat part of 'ultra-competitive' don't you understand???you push every rule and every loophole to the limit while watching your back at all times. My league is the same way and I wouldn't want it any other way.

It would not be as much fun for me even if I were getting the advantage. There are two kinds of people in the world I guess.

 

[habsfan]

Wait a minute here.You said a few posts above this that your motive was to get a loophole closed.Now if you just keep your yap shut, that loophole might get closed with someone else besides you playing the role of the ahole, and the poor schmoe with the bum laptop being the victim.And your response is to tip the guy that's about to be the victim? What gives there?Sounds more like your motive is not to close a loophole at all. Your motive is (or was) purely to screw your opponent -- which you're clearly disappointed about no longer being in a position to do.

This would be my take too. It would appear he is more interested in being the one to stir up controversy (read: "drama") than he is interested in improving the league's ruleset.

 

[swirvenirvin]

I can think of a reason why I would not do it. It's because I'm not a complete jackoff loser who would do this to my friends