bostonfred
Footballguy
Oh yeah
2002 - led nfl in touchdown passes
2008 - missed season (acl)
2010 - league mvp
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AFCCG: Steelers at Patriots Discussion (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ghost Rider
- Start date
2002 - led nfl in touchdown passes
2008 - missed season (acl)
2010 - league mvp
HellToupee
Footballguy
Krafty Bob likes his tea
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Either Kraft is drunk, or age has really caught up to him. I hope for his sake it's the former.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Lol. He wanted the crowd to say win.one more, they didnt, do he said win one... and they all yelled more. It was awkward, but not a stroke.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
They had quite a few plays where the players obviously thought their plan was better than the coach's. Ya know, like not covering your guy so that you can be the 3rd cover guy on someone else. Trying to be the ball stripper when nobody else was there as tackle support. Not to prop the coaching at all, but there were some HUGE player mistakes too.
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
DoubleG
Footballguy
I was not rooting for either team. Watch the replay. It wasn't helmet to helmet...nor was that the call. But, hey don't let actual facts get in the way of your narrative.
.
Like I said, officials didn't decide this game - Patriots destroyed the Steelers, no question. But the officiating in this game was terrible, inconsistent and, at times, simply confounding (like the Brady QB sneak that might have been a fumble - when even the announcers had no idea what the officials were basing their decision off of...granted, one of the announcers was Simms, so he is usually clueless...)
Just saying I watched less football this season than last. Officiating was a big reason why. Tonight did nothing to reverse that trend for me.
It absolutely looked like the Steelers had no game plan on defense except stand back off the line and watch Brady pick you apart.
Technically the call was hit to a defenseless receiver which was due to the helmet to helmet hit. I did watch the replay.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Man, this is amazing! On to Houston! Enjoy this while we can boys and girls, NFL history in the making.
MrJimmy
Footballguy
Mike Sullivan. Pats fan. From Massachusetts and Boston University. You're welcome.
Sharing Our Excellence
Old Smiley
Footballguy
I love backing a smart team. Feels good.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Clearly the better team won. I thought Ben played a decent game. Really wasn't helped by his receivers too much. Bell going down was a killer although Deangelo did a nice job -- he just isn't Bell.
Not surprisingly the Steelers were outcoached. I wonder who thought it was a good idea to rush only 3 and drop Bud Dupree and James Harrison is coverage?
It should be a good SB matchup. Go Falcons!
Not surprisingly the Steelers were outcoached. I wonder who thought it was a good idea to rush only 3 and drop Bud Dupree and James Harrison is coverage?
It should be a good SB matchup. Go Falcons!
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Steelers had to be close to perfect to hang in this game -- and they weren't. They were both out-coached and out-executed. I don't even think that Bell would have really mattered; Steelers just had no answer at all on defense.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
People underestimate the Pats D. Top scoring D + they hadn't let a 100yd rusher all season and no TDs since week 8 or something. IMO the Steelers weren't going to be running on the Pats anyway with Bell or not. Where they did miss him is in the passing game. They could have started using him as a WR like they did earlier in the year. (now if they are smart enough to do that is another story..
Steelers had to be close to perfect to hang in this game -- and they weren't. They were both out-coached and out-executed. I don't even think that Bell would have really mattered; Steelers just had no answer at all on defense.
)
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I disagree. I thought he played a pretty good game. He missed on a few, especially the deep pass to Brown and throw near the endzone (that wouldn't have scored anyway). He was also victimized by drops, two in particular were killer. The deep pass to Coates hit him right in the hands and would have be a big gain on the first possession. The second was a beautiful pass to Cobi Hamilton in the endzone which hit him right in the numbers but he dropped.
I don't know for sure but it looked like the interception was a miscommunication with DHB. It came late in the game to have much of an effect anyway.
Not a perfect performance but not horrible either.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
The Steelers were moving the ball through the air fairly well though IMO, particularly if Coates and Hamilton could have come up with those two long passes that were right on the money. The difference was Brady going through the defense like a warm knife through butter.People underestimate the Pats D. Top scoring D + they hadn't let a 100yd rusher all season and no TDs since week 8 or something. IMO the Steelers weren't going to be running on the Pats anyway with Bell or not. Where they did miss him is in the passing game. They could have started using him as a WR like they did earlier in the year. (now if they are smart enough to do that is another story..
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Agreed -- he wasn't great, but he played well enough that this loss can't be placed on his shoulders. As far as reasons why we lost this game, Ben is waaaay down on that list IMO.
Boston
Footballguy
The Pats D does get underestimated and it is easy to see why...the bend-but-don't-break they play style can be very frustrating to watch as a fan (I know I get frustrated)...there will be times during the game where it feels like they are just being lit up...the other team is completing every pass and sometimes it feels like the defenders are allowing the opponent to catch it nine yards downfield on a third and eight...than all of a sudden you look at the scoreboard and see they haven't given up many points (or big plays)...BB's philosophy is if you are going to score on them you will have to do it on a long drive (without your top-weapon because he is almost flawless taking that player out) and he is betting that at some point during that drive there will be a dropped pass, a stupid penalty or a turnover (i.e. you will not be able to execute with precision all game)...and if you do score but it is a FG you now have to deal with Tom Brady and FG's are not going to beat him...this year's D is executing what BB wants very well and there is zero doubt in my mind that the reason Jamie Collins is playing for the Browns is because BB did not trust him to do his job and while he is an incredible athlete he was going to allow big plays that may cost them...
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The defensive game plan made absolutely no sense to me. I have no idea what Tomlin and Butler were thinking. The worst though was MItchell biting on the flea flicker. He was 30 yards deep in the secondary and his sole purpose on that play was to cover anyone going deep. Instead he dashes up the middle in run support... That TD was 100% on him.
Steeler
Footballguy
Watch the replay again and i think Davis could get some of the blame. He was near the line of scrimmage when the play started and was actually in the backfield when Brady received the ball back from Lewis... instead of rushing Brady (and he might have been able to get there)... he turned back to cover his zone... he got to about the line of scrimmage again in retreat giving Brady all day to find Hogan.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
Maybe but Hogan was Mitchell's responsibility and he (Mitchell) ran past Hogan cause he bit on the run. Had Mitchell covered Hogan Brady may still have had time but he may have gone elsewhere if there was a someone in the same area code as Hogan
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Mitchell needs to be gone next year IMO -- I'm so sick of his lack of fundamentals and solid tackling while going for the big kill shot. That ridiculous angle he took on the Wallace slant in the first Ravens' game still pisses me off. Davis wasn't much better getting shucked off by Edelman and Hogan and giving up huge YAC plays -- but at least he's a rookie and we can reasonably expect him to improve. Mitchell has been in the league 8 years and is what he is at this point, and given our scheme, we just can't have him consistently missing tackles like he does.
Bossman
Footballguy
NE had Bells number from the beginning. His "stop and wait" style was getting him nowhere.
- On defense, Pats were plugging the running lanes with LB's and daring PIT to throw the ball. I Don't think it mattered that Bell got hurt.
- Pats safeties were giving a HUGE cushion. They weren't going to let anyone behind them / taking away the big play. It was their typical "bend don't break" game plan.
- That goal line stand was huge. Went from a called TD reversed to a 1st down from the 6 inch line and PIT went BACKWARDS. (Don't break).
- PIT defense was able to generate pressure on Brady with their front 4 at times but not consistently enough.
- Brady with time and a full stable of weapons (other than Gronk) ... indefensible.
- On defense, Pats were plugging the running lanes with LB's and daring PIT to throw the ball. I Don't think it mattered that Bell got hurt.
- Pats safeties were giving a HUGE cushion. They weren't going to let anyone behind them / taking away the big play. It was their typical "bend don't break" game plan.
- That goal line stand was huge. Went from a called TD reversed to a 1st down from the 6 inch line and PIT went BACKWARDS. (Don't break).
- PIT defense was able to generate pressure on Brady with their front 4 at times but not consistently enough.
- Brady with time and a full stable of weapons (other than Gronk) ... indefensible.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Yeah, I was b!tching about this in the team thread last night. The game plan was an abomination -- but the execution within that game plan was even worse. And as good as Edelman and Hogan are at getting open, they're absolutely not physical specimens that you should be expecting to run through and away from tacklers. Just infuriating to me...
I think DWill looked better than Bell before he left the game. Now, chances are that NE gameplanned for Bell and didn;t expect to see much of DWill.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think the best way to attack the NE defense is to scheme the underneath check downs and RB safety valves in the flat. Make NE take those away instead of the other way around. Take 5 or 6 yards a play and then take a few shots downfield once they start to adjust. Ben in particular may not have the mental fortitude to play like that. He just wants to go for the gusto as much as possible, Ryan might be more inclined to settle for those throws.
As for the defense, whatever PIT has in their defensive playbook, it is not exotic enough that Brady doesn't see it coming a mile away and it certainly doesn't confuse him. That one play where he called an audible and completely reset just about everyone on the field and hit Hogan on a deep seam route was the perfect example. The Steelers didn't know what to do.
Between PIT and NE, it's starting to look like there is a cavernous bridge between the level of coaching between the two teams. There may have been a game or two along the way, but I can't remember the last time I saw these two play where it seemed like PIT was the team controlling the game.
Others watching the game with me (pretty much neophytes in their knowledge of football) asked me how did Pittsburgh get this far as they were terrible. I passed it off as them just having a bad game, but it got me wondering how they won so many games in a row and why their defense hasn't been lit up all season long. They just didn't look good at all.
And I expect this is the same exact approach they will bring to ATL.
Julio will be taken out.
Ryan forced to use secondary options Sanu, Gabriel, Hooper, RBs out of backfield.
Increase odds that Ryan makes a terrible mistake on the game's largest stage.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Wasn't meant as a slam on Hogan at all -- he was pretty easily the best player on the field yesterday for either team (at least among guys not named Tom Brady). Point was he's not a 4.3 blazer who you have to expect will run away from your safeties, or a giant beast like a Gronk who you have to expect will run through tackles. He's a good athletic 4.5 type WR -- but also a guy that should not be getting > 100 yards in YAC against your team.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
That, and intelligence is the type of player the Pats have been accumulating for over 10 years now and have nearly had the pick of the litter as most teams target size/speed guys and leave the Pats' target talent pool much richer. Much easier to get your type of player when nobody else is going after them. Nobody else seems to have caught on (except KC and Seattle to some extent), and that surprises me in such a copycat league.
Along the same lines, the reason Pitt was so successful on D and with their pass rushers in the 90's and '00s when they were stacking up on the LB/DE 'tweeners is because there were far fewer 3-4 teams then. Now, the majority of teams are looking for those guys as specialists or because at least 1/2 of the league plays a 3-4 (at least as a sub-package) and they have to use an early pick or get lucky to land those guys (that and they are miserly in free agency). Oh, and has anybody mentioned how stubborn and inflexible Pittsburgh has been? Now, I'm all for the continuity thing, but have they even looked for better options? One of the love / hate things with the Rooneys and the Steelers.
pats3in4
Footballguy
If I'm a Steelers fan today, I am irate at the coaching staff and the secondary. Sticking with that soft zone that Brady has historically picked apart was asinine. After Edelman abused Timmons in the regular season game, you would have thought Timmons would have told his coaching staff off when asked to do the same again. But as if that wasn't bad enough, the Steelers gave up two touchdowns to receivers standing all alone in the endzone. They didn't even have to run away from anyone in coverage. The flea flicker was just the cherry on top when the safety bit even though the front 7 were handling the run game fine up to that point.
That might have been the worst pass defense the Pats have faced all season.
That might have been the worst pass defense the Pats have faced all season.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I don't think that too many of us are all that surprised at what happened. The secondary is a massive weakness that was somewhat hidden by a rejuvenated pass rush down the stretch this year, but we've known all along what they are: two rookies that aren't really that great yet but can hopefully improve in Burns and Davis, a guy who is best suited to be a dime DB (Cockrell), and Mike Mitchell, a guy who we've been complaining about and wanted gone for a few years now. Agreed on the scheme / game plan being awful, bit at the same time I also understand that it is tough to completely change everything philosophy-wise for one game at the end of the year. I would have liked to see a ton more in terms of exotic blitzing, even though that is usually a really bad plan against Brady also. At least then there is a chance to get a free run at him and maybe get some sacks / force a TO. The rushing three with eight dropping back into zones was just asinine.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I don't think anyone has done this in about 3 years now. Unless you're in those Pat homer threads too much that you buy into their "Brady is responsible for their success" garbage.
Really? I thought he played poorly. Maybe I'll have to re-watch the game, but I remember thinking when he threw a decent pass in the 1st quarter, that it was the first good pass he threw all game (except the one to Coates on 3rd and 1, and that was a pass on 3rd and 1
, and well, thrown to Sammie Coates ).Agreed, it's easy to say Belichick out-coached the Steelers, but that didn't take much. Rushing 3, and dropping 9 into coverage, then seeing those 9 getting destroyed should have prompted some kind of change in their game-plan, but they stuck with what wasn't working, so I'd be hard-pressed to think of a coach who couldn't have out-coached the Steelers yesterday.
ETA-this is not a slam of BB; he's a great coach, but he didn't need to be yesterday, IMO.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
He definitely had a slow start, but from there he went on to complete 11 or 12 passes in a row. That throw to Coates was on target and should have been a big gain early on. He had another great TD pass that was just flat out dropped by Hamilton, plus the TD pass where Hamilton just inexplicably ran out of bounds in the end zone before catching the ball. He wasn't great, but he wasn't awful by any stretch IMO.Really? I thought he played poorly. Maybe I'll have to re-watch the game, but I remember thinking when he threw a decent pass in the 1st quarter, that it was the first good pass he threw all game (except the one to Coates on 3rd and 1, and that was a pass on 3rd and 1
While the Pats dominated the game, these comments are well off the mark, IMO.
Bell had 4 carries before he got hurt for 18 yards. 4.5 YPC is not the "D having his number." (I know, small sample size, but it's also too small a sample size to claim "NE had Bells number").
It absolutely mattered that Bell got hurt. NE's D played great, and Bell playing the whole game may not have changed the outcome, but 4 carries in 1/2 a quarter for 18 yards is a damn good start for a RB. Williams is a fine player, but he isn't Bell. If Bell had continued to get yardage (and Haley had pulled his head out of his ### and realized 3rd and 1 is a good time to go with Bell rather than throwing a long pass to Sammie freakin' Coates), the Pats safeties might have been unable to keep playing the deep shell, thus opening up the pass game.
I want to reiterate, these aren't excuses. I'm not even a Pitt fan. NE deserved to win, they played a great game on offense and defense, and they thoroughly out-coached the Steelers as well. I just disagree with the ideas that NE "had Bell's number" based on 4 plays where he averaged 4.5 YPC, and that his presence couldn't have changed the way the game played out.
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