Ahman Green's best days are behind him (1 Viewer)

[fruity pebbles]

I think the offensive linemen loss is being overplayed. Flanagan returns to center and Ruegamer moves to guard after playing very well at center in Flanagan's absence.

You're obviously a big Green Bay fan, that's cool. I disagree and think that anytime you lose key players along the offensive line, the offense won't play as well, especially running the football. I have seen it the past 2 or 3 years in St. Louis, where they used to have a solid line and over the last couple they've been in the bottom.Green Bay is thin, and if the ball doesn't bounce their way as far as injuries go, they could be in for a long season. I think they come in 3rd place in the North.

Why do you assume I'm a Green Bay fan. To the contrary I'm not. They lost one offensive lineman, not the end of the world IMO. Reason I say one is they're getting a very good one back from injury. Still one of the better o-lines in the NFL.

 

[bagger.]

Favre wanting to get into shootouts in what could be his last hurrah will also hurt Ahman, especially (as i've stated before) since Tony Fisher now serves as the running back the Packers try to get involved into the passing game..

his 2004 season will be VERY similar to his 2005 season.

edited for spelling

This kind of qualitative reasoning is overplayed on these boards.

I think that i may have misstated my point.. I don't think that Favre will want to get into shootouts at the expense of winning football games.. I think that Favre gets into shootouts in part because the defense has been terrible and its in his nature to throw the ball 25 to 30 times per game.. I do believe that Favre wants nothing more than to win but I also believe the GB philosophy offensively involves a ton of Brett Favre passing.

I'm not saying that's not entirely accurate...but to discount his production entirely is throwing out the baby with the bath water. Green is an amazing value in the 2nd round and is very little reason to think why he won't be top 10.

 

[fatkid]

Let's not forget that Green played injured most of the year. Just like LT2. Yet everyone feels LT2 should do better because of the off year based on being dinged. Why wouldn't the same apply Green? It's not like he's too old. And while the O line has 2 new members, keep in mind that GB has a rich tradition of good Olines and solid RB's. They've handled changes before. Do you really think Favre would come back if they he was going to get hammered back there?

And Ahman's year was identical to McAllister's and Portis' and better than Jamal Lewis' yet nobody seems to have fallen off their jock. I honestly don't get it.

There's nothing to get. Year in and year out there are 1 or 2 RBs who are severely undervalued. Last year it was Martin and Tiki. This year it is Green. People will look at everything bad about a certain player and not recognize the historic production. FBG did this with Tiki and Martin last year, where I had both of them in the top 15, higher than anyone I knew. They even surprised me.This year it is Green. Exploit the value and run.

I just don't happen to agree with you though. There will be RB's out there that represent value but I don't like that Green Bay lost key O-linemen. I think they're going to be in a lot of 2nd and long type situations, taking Green out of the game. Of course this won't happen every down, but over a 16 game season it'll add up. I definately wouldn't take Ahman as a RB 1 but would take him higher than Steven Jackson or Lamont Jordan.

One of GB's signature run plays is hte sweep. The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play. But again, GB has a long history of great Olines. No reason to think that won't continue. In fact, they still have a good Oline without their losses. Teams just don't have that many great lineman on their team's. KC, Denver, minn and GB traditionally have good lines dispite attrition. Great coaches and philosphy usually prevail.

The Packers most productive running play over the last three years was the power sweep right. They attacked behind Tauscher, who is a very good run blooker, and pulled Whale from the left side. Whale's ability to block a linebacker or safety one the move was one of the keys to that play. I think you will see that play be much less effective this year, as I don't know if the Packers have a lineman who can do what Whale did. Ruegamer is a streight ahead blocker and not great in space (unless he is picking off people standing around a pile). I don't know much about the guards they picked up from New England.

 

[fantasyfootballadvantage]

I don't understand how you guys think that the defense won't be improved. They did sign a new defensive coordinator in the off season and lets face it, the defense couldn't get any worse than they were last year. They didn't sign any great additions in the off season, but with Bates coming in they have to improve in my opinion.In five years in Miami the phins finished in the top ten all five years in defense. Last year they finished 8th overall and 2nd in Pass D. Even though their players aren't great I see the defense improving with the coaching they will get from Bates.That being said I think the Packers have as good a chance as anyone else in the North to win the division.If the Pack can keep games close, or be ahead they will run a lot. That means Green will improve on his numbers over last year at least some. I am not saying he is going to be top 3, but a top ten finish is easily within reach. Injuries can't be predicted in my book and I think he will be more likely to play through them this year since it is a contract year.I have him at this308/1457/11tds45/345/3tds

 

[Keysersoze666]

FamilyMatters:

You post here often and obviously know football. But no one here is calling you on an obviously misguided statement.

You state the following:

"One of GB's signature run plays is hte sweep. The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play. But again, GB has a long history of great Olines. No reason to think that won't continue. In fact, they still have a good Oline without their losses. Teams just don't have that many great lineman on their team's. KC, Denver, minn and GB traditionally have good lines dispite attrition. Great coaches and philosphy usually prevail."

This quote contains one pearl of wisdom and one complete silly statement. For fun, lets do Silly first.

"One of GB's signature run plays is hte sweep. The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play."

Have you ever watched a Packer game or do you know anything about thier history? Does the name Jerry Kramer mean anything to you? The famed Packer sweep is tied to one KEY element, PULLING GUARDS! Which 2 of the Packer linemen left? THE GUARDS! Is there some alternate reality where you statement that the "The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play" is valid? The answer is NO. In the modern Packer sweep they also at times call on the Center to pull as well, and Green Bay was lucky enough to have a backup center last year who didn't SUCK when called upon to do so.

The two Packer lineman who left, Chris Wahle and Marco Rivera were GREAT pulling guards. They got HUGE signing bonuses to go to another team and provide the spark that they gave the Green Bay running game. The only reason Green Bay didn't make a bigger effort to keep them is that the NFL is an "Edge" league. The players on the EDGE of the action like Cornerbacks, Defensive Ends, Outside Linebackers and Offensive Tackles are more highly valued than their inside teamates. Green Bay tied up a huge amount of money in keeping Offensive Tackles, Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher together to protect the franchises biggest star, Brett Favre.

Now lets move on to the Wisdom. You stated, "Great coaches and philosphy usually prevail." You are absolutely right. The Packer Offensive Line coach, Larry Beightol is one of the top line coaches in the league and he has consistently taken raw talent and turned it into GOLD. I have no doubt that he will fill the two holes in a manner that will exceed what people expect.

To expect that Green Bay can replace the cohesiveness and teamwork that existed with their offensive line in an immediate fashion is silly. I have no doubt that the losses/changes will affect the running game MORE than the passing game because the modern NFL pash rush comes from the EDGE and not up the middle. The Packer guards MADE the sweep and many of Greens outside runs possible. But your assessment of the Packer tradition of creating a good offensive line no matter what is correct!

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

FamilyMatters:

You post here often and obviously know football. But no one here is calling you on an obviously misguided statement.

You state the following:

"One of GB's signature run plays is hte sweep. The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play. But again, GB has a long history of great Olines. No reason to think that won't continue. In fact, they still have a good Oline without their losses. Teams just don't have that many great lineman on their team's. KC, Denver, minn and GB traditionally have good lines dispite attrition. Great coaches and philosphy usually prevail."

This quote contains one pearl of wisdom and one complete silly statement. For fun, lets do Silly first.

"One of GB's signature run plays is hte sweep. The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play."

Have you ever watched a Packer game or do you know anything about thier history? Does the name Jerry Kramer mean anything to you? The famed Packer sweep is tied to one KEY element, PULLING GUARDS! Which 2 of the Packer linemen left? THE GUARDS! Is there some alternate reality where you statement that the "The guys they lost were not key blockers in that play" is valid? The answer is NO. In the modern Packer sweep they also at times call on the Center to pull as well, and Green Bay was lucky enough to have a backup center last year who didn't SUCK when called upon to do so.

The two Packer lineman who left, Chris Wahle and Marco Rivera were GREAT pulling guards. They got HUGE signing bonuses to go to another team and provide the spark that they gave the Green Bay running game. The only reason Green Bay didn't make a bigger effort to keep them is that the NFL is an "Edge" league. The players on the EDGE of the action like Cornerbacks, Defensive Ends, Outside Linebackers and Offensive Tackles are more highly valued than their inside teamates. Green Bay tied up a huge amount of money in keeping Offensive Tackles, Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher together to protect the franchises biggest star, Brett Favre.

Now lets move on to the Wisdom. You stated, "Great coaches and philosphy usually prevail." You are absolutely right. The Packer Offensive Line coach, Larry Beightol is one of the top line coaches in the league and he has consistently taken raw talent and turned it into GOLD. I have no doubt that he will fill the two holes in a manner that will exceed what people expect.

To expect that Green Bay can replace the cohesiveness and teamwork that existed with their offensive line in an immediate fashion is silly. I have no doubt that the losses/changes will affect the running game MORE than the passing game because the modern NFL pash rush comes from the EDGE and not up the middle. The Packer guards MADE the sweep and many of Greens outside runs possible. But your assessment of the Packer tradition of creating a good offensive line no matter what is correct!

Outstanding and you said it better than I could have.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I think the offensive linemen loss is being overplayed. Flanagan returns to center and Ruegamer moves to guard after playing very well at center in Flanagan's absence.

You're obviously a big Green Bay fan, that's cool. I disagree and think that anytime you lose key players along the offensive line, the offense won't play as well, especially running the football. I have seen it the past 2 or 3 years in St. Louis, where they used to have a solid line and over the last couple they've been in the bottom.Green Bay is thin, and if the ball doesn't bounce their way as far as injuries go, they could be in for a long season. I think they come in 3rd place in the North.

Why do you assume I'm a Green Bay fan. To the contrary I'm not. They lost one offensive lineman, not the end of the world IMO. Reason I say one is they're getting a very good one back from injury. Still one of the better o-lines in the NFL.

Hey Fruity,They lost 2 offensive linemen, the reason I say that is because they lost 2. Not only that, they are difference makers. If they're getting one back from injury, I'm sure that will help. Who are they getting back?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think the offensive linemen loss is being overplayed. Flanagan returns to center and Ruegamer moves to guard after playing very well at center in Flanagan's absence.

You're obviously a big Green Bay fan, that's cool. I disagree and think that anytime you lose key players along the offensive line, the offense won't play as well, especially running the football. I have seen it the past 2 or 3 years in St. Louis, where they used to have a solid line and over the last couple they've been in the bottom.Green Bay is thin, and if the ball doesn't bounce their way as far as injuries go, they could be in for a long season. I think they come in 3rd place in the North.

Why do you assume I'm a Green Bay fan. To the contrary I'm not. They lost one offensive lineman, not the end of the world IMO. Reason I say one is they're getting a very good one back from injury. Still one of the better o-lines in the NFL.

Hey Fruity,They lost 2 offensive linemen, the reason I say that is because they lost 2. Not only that, they are difference makers. If they're getting one back from injury, I'm sure that will help. Who are they getting back?

Net difference of one lost lineman. They're getting Flanagan back at center, who made the Pro Bowl in 2003. Moving Ruegamer to guard after he played center most of last year after Flanagan went down.

 

[Macdaddy_2004]

Good discussion here - any new opinions on Ahman Green ??? Favre has a hip condition similiar to Bo Jackson's - may force GB to lean on the run more

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Good discussion here  - any new opinions on Ahman Green ??? Favre has a hip condition similiar to Bo Jackson's - may force GB to lean on the run more

You may want to read up more on Favre's hip to understand his condition.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I tend to agree....But Favre likes him, so maybe he'll throw him more outlet passes this year to pad his stats.

 

[Raiders Fan]

His '05 schedule is absolutely brutal. Green has me concerned as well.

Really?? I know its not set in stone but if you look at last eyars teams rushing numbers and then figure the avg in for those teams this year.. GB has the 6th easiest rushing schedule. Can you tell me who is brutal?

 

[NoCheese]

His '05 schedule is absolutely brutal.  Green has me concerned as well.

Really?? I know its not set in stone but if you look at last eyars teams rushing numbers and then figure the avg in for those teams this year.. GB has the 6th easiest rushing schedule. Can you tell me who is brutal?

Sep 11 @Detroit 4:15pm (CAKE) Sep 18 Cleveland 4:15pm (CAKE)

Sep 25 Tampa Bay 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Oct 3 @Carolina 9:00pm (TOUGH)

Oct 9 New Orleans 1:00pm (CAKE)

Week 6 BYE

Oct 23 @Minnesota 1:00pm (AVERAGE)

Oct 30 @Cincinnati 1:00pm (SEMI-EASY)

Nov 6 Pittsburgh 4:15pm (TOUGH)

Nov 13 @Atlanta 4:15pm (TOUGH)

Nov 21 Minnesota 9:00pm (AVERAGE)

Nov 27 @Philadelphia 4:15pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Dec 4 @Chicago 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Dec 11 Detroit 8:30pm (CAKE)

Dec 19 @Baltimore 9:00pm (TOUGH)

Dec 25 Chicago 5:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Jan 1 Seattle 4:15pm (AVERAGE)

I wouldn't say brutal, but not a very easy run schedule

 

[Raiders Fan]

His '05 schedule is absolutely brutal.  Green has me concerned as well.

Really?? I know its not set in stone but if you look at last eyars teams rushing numbers and then figure the avg in for those teams this year.. GB has the 6th easiest rushing schedule. Can you tell me who is brutal?

Sep 11 @Detroit 4:15pm (CAKE) Sep 18 Cleveland 4:15pm (CAKE)

Sep 25 Tampa Bay 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Oct 3 @Carolina 9:00pm (TOUGH)

Oct 9 New Orleans 1:00pm (CAKE)

Week 6 BYE

Oct 23 @Minnesota 1:00pm (AVERAGE)

Oct 30 @Cincinnati 1:00pm (SEMI-EASY)

Nov 6 Pittsburgh 4:15pm (TOUGH)

Nov 13 @Atlanta 4:15pm (TOUGH)

Nov 21 Minnesota 9:00pm (AVERAGE)

Nov 27 @Philadelphia 4:15pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Dec 4 @Chicago 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Dec 11 Detroit 8:30pm (CAKE)

Dec 19 @Baltimore 9:00pm (TOUGH)

Dec 25 Chicago 5:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH)

Jan 1 Seattle 4:15pm (AVERAGE)

I wouldn't say brutal, but not a very easy run schedule

By last years numbers their 2005 oppenents rush D avg's 121 YPG. They will face 3 teams in the top 10 from last year and 6 from the botom 10. The rest are in the middle. Like I said you can't predict year to year how the D's will be but I can't see it this far apart..

 

[Righetti]

We are going to have some discussion about Ahman Green's value.. With the way that this team looks and defense is playing, I doubt Ahman will be anywhere near the top 10 this year..

 

[Righetti]

I've been saying this for three months now... Ahman Green will not be top 10 this year..

 

[Bears_Man2]

I think we'll see a steady increase in Najeh's carries each week through the season. I see no reason to pay what Ahman's going to command vs. Najeh (who's capable of being an everydown back) for cheaper.....and using that $$ to fill in the defensive and o-guard holes.

 

[Biabreakable]

I've been saying this for three months now... Ahman Green will not be top 10 this year..

Ahman Green combined for 21 touches (5 receptions) and 99 yards.The Packers could certainly use him more than they have been but seem to think that having Favre throw the ball 40+ times a game is the way to win games.

Green increased his catches now in the 1st week of Walkers absense. Will just have to wait and see if they start to give him the ball more as the season goes on or not. But I don't see this as a lack of ability on Greens part but more a lack of opportunity.

Favre has his 50,000 yards now. Maybe the Packers will start thinking about whats a better way to win games in a NFC North that is still there for the taking.

 

[Righetti]

I've never said that he won't be top 10 b/c of a lack of ability. I've said from day 1 that his situation stinks, his offfensive line lost 2 pro-bowlers, the defense is awful and he fumbles too often and when he does it seem to happened in critical spots.. all of them have come true

 

[Biabreakable]

its week 2

 

[Righetti]

its week 2

and I started this thread in May

 

[Biabreakable]

Duh I responded to it May.So your prediction is set in stone now with 14 weeks left to play?Ok have it your way.Ahman Green is currently Rb 17 in my league. He has not scored a TD yet.He does have 10 catches allready though so that aspect of his game seems to be improving from numbers he had last year.

 

[Righetti]

I'm telling you.. Ahman's top 10 days are over. I have been saying it since May.has he scored a TD yet?

 

[Raiders Fan]

His '05 schedule is absolutely brutal.  Green has me concerned as well.

Really?? I know its not set in stone but if you look at last eyars teams rushing numbers and then figure the avg in for those teams this year.. GB has the 6th easiest rushing schedule. Can you tell me who is brutal?

Sep 11 @Detroit 4:15pm (CAKE) AVERAGESep 18 Cleveland 4:15pm (CAKE) CAKE

Sep 25 Tampa Bay 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH) TOUGH

Oct 3 @Carolina 9:00pm (TOUGH) TOUGH

Oct 9 New Orleans 1:00pm (CAKE) CAKE

Week 6 BYE

Oct 23 @Minnesota 1:00pm (AVERAGE) CAKE

Oct 30 @Cincinnati 1:00pm (SEMI-EASY) AVERAGE

Nov 6 Pittsburgh 4:15pm (TOUGH) SEMI-TOUGH

Nov 13 @Atlanta 4:15pm (TOUGH) SEMI-EASY

Nov 21 Minnesota 9:00pm (AVERAGE) CAKE

Nov 27 @Philadelphia 4:15pm (SEMI-TOUGH) SEMI-EASY

Dec 4 @Chicago 1:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH) SEMI-TOUGH

Dec 11 Detroit 8:30pm (CAKE) AVERAGE

Dec 19 @Baltimore 9:00pm (TOUGH) TOUGH

Dec 25 Chicago 5:00pm (SEMI-TOUGH) SEMI-TOUGH

Jan 1 Seattle 4:15pm (AVERAGE) CAKE

I wouldn't say brutal, but not a very easy run schedule

So far through 4 games..So what you said to what it is currently.. I broke down what you fewlt was whaty based on current YTD rushing and YPG average. The top 6 were Tough. 6-11 were semi-tough. 12-18 were average. 19-25 were semi-easy. 26-32 were cake.

3 of the ones you predicted are tougher then you thought.

6 were right on.

4 were easier then you thought.

I think I will follow this for future reference..

 

[MelvinTScupper]

many of us agreed Righetti. So far, we look smart. But, as many have pointed out, it's not rocket science. The loss of Wahle and Rivera was an obvious one, and it's played out exactly that way.

 

[migarvin]

bubba franks is known as one of the best blocking TE's in football. His absence hurts more than you realize

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Losses on the O-line aside, there is no question in my mind that Green does not have the burst he once had. I was at the Tampa game and the difference between Green and Cadillac was apparent - Williams bursts through traffic at the line with reckless abandon, power and quickness the way Green once did. Green is still a decent back and I think he may well salvage a decent season, but he has clearly lost something in my opinion.

 

[cscmtp]

Green is my 3rd RB in a dynasty league, and i am thinking about trading him and AJ for McGahee and a scrub WR. Would you guys do this? It is 1 pt per reception scoring...

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Green is my 3rd RB in a dynasty league, and i am thinking about trading him and AJ for McGahee and a scrub WR. Would you guys do this? It is 1 pt per reception scoring...

duhIf the other guy takes it, he's the m0r0n.

 

[cscmtp]

i think that's a little harsh, as AJ has top 5 potential. He may not reach it THIS year, but the guy is a monster. I'm basically GIVING him away with Green to get McGahee.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

i think that's a little harsh, as AJ has top 5 potential. He may not reach it THIS year, but the guy is a monster. I'm basically GIVING him away with Green to get McGahee.

Not with Carr at QB. I think it's time for people to face the facts with AJ. And if you don't think he's GIVING away McGahee, you're nuts.

 

[Righetti]

i think that's a little harsh, as AJ has top 5 potential. He may not reach it THIS year, but the guy is a monster. I'm basically GIVING him away with Green to get McGahee.

please don't hijack my threadthanks

the assistant coaches forum has plenty of room for these types of posts

 

[Righetti]

he did not look good again and with (yet another) injury this year, I think my prediction will come true.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Ahman Green's best days are behind him?Did you realize that Emmitt Smith's are also?

 

[Righetti]

Ahman Green's best days are behind him?

Did you realize that Emmitt Smith's are also?

that is why i started this thread months agoto warn my fellow FBG's to avoid this guy.. some people listened, other didn't..

I hope you were in the first camp Grid