Airplane Advancement (1 Viewer)

[TheIronSheik]

It seems like everything has evolved and gotten better with time.  Except airplanes.  Why are we still flying in airplanes that look similar to the ones built 70 years ago?  Hell, we've even regressed a little.  We used to have the Concorde but that's gone.  How come we haven't come up with a better design to hold more passengers and have more room?  

The age of flight is highly overrated.  We just took pictures of Pluto a couple years ago and yet I still have to fly in a Greyhound Bus with wings.  Unacceptable.  

And if you came here to say "winglets", you can see yourself out now. 

 

[-fish-]

What's the financial incentive to build better or more comfortable planes?   Smash as many people as you can into a bus with wings, offer some premium seating at high profit because you've made the regular seating and amenities so bad, and keep as many planes in the air as you can.

Fewer models, easily replicated maintenance and parts worldwide, and existing factories.   New aircraft would require complete re-tooling and retraining.   

 

[belljr]

It seems like everything has evolved and gotten better with time.  Except airplanes.  Why are we still flying in airplanes that look similar to the ones built 70 years ago?  Hell, we've even regressed a little.  We used to have the Concorde but that's gone.  How come we haven't come up with a better design to hold more passengers and have more room?  

The age of flight is highly overrated.  We just took pictures of Pluto a couple years ago and yet I still have to fly in a Greyhound Bus with wings.  Unacceptable.  

And if you came here to say "winglets", you can see yourself out now. 

Believe it or not - planes are better and more evolved.   Newer planes are being used.  

Plane routing will improve efficiency.  

The reason there is less room?   Airlines of taken ROWS OUT in new planes because they figured how to maximize space vs cost

Airlines are in to make as much money as possible. ####ty passengers dont help.

It also depends on the plane - It makes ZERO sense to take a A380 on a 2 hour flight. 

1999:

The biggest commercial plane in the skies was the Boeing 747. This gigantic plane has an upper deck and had been flying for decades. Even the President flies on a 747. However, fast forward 20 years and Airbus rules the sky in terms of the biggest plane: the A380. This is a full double decked plane, and is so big that it cannot fly in or out of a lot of airports in the world. Any airport that wants to handle this monster airplane had to go through some pretty major upgrades. Comparing the 747 to the A380 shows how much airplane technology has changed in 20 years.

https://www.thetravel.com/20-ways-airplanes-have-changed-in-the-last-20-years/

 

[TheIronSheik]

Believe it or not - planes are better and more evolved.   Newer planes are being used.  

Plane routing will improve efficiency.  

The reason there is less room?   Airlines of taken ROWS OUT in new planes because they figured how to maximize space vs cost

Airlines are in to make as much money as possible. ####ty passengers dont help.

It also depends on the plane - It makes ZERO sense to take a A380 on a 2 hour flight. 

1999:

The biggest commercial plane in the skies was the Boeing 747. This gigantic plane has an upper deck and had been flying for decades. Even the President flies on a 747. However, fast forward 20 years and Airbus rules the sky in terms of the biggest plane: the A380. This is a full double decked plane, and is so big that it cannot fly in or out of a lot of airports in the world. Any airport that wants to handle this monster airplane had to go through some pretty major upgrades. Comparing the 747 to the A380 shows how much airplane technology has changed in 20 years.

https://www.thetravel.com/20-ways-airplanes-have-changed-in-the-last-20-years/

I get that there are subtle changes.  But look at the Model T to the current models.

 

[belljr]

there are more changes then you want to think.

Small changes to design but major changes to hardware, engines, materials, technology.

There is no reason for a complete design change when you are getting more and more efficient

'

A proposal to change how airplane seats are designed could make the worst seat on the plane a lot more comfortable. The “S1” design from a Colorado-based startup might actually make people want the middle seat, or at least make the flying experience less miserable.

Instead of being side-by-side, the three economy seats are staggered.

That would put the middle seat slightly behind the aisle and window seats, and make them slightly lower.

The company says moving the middle seat back allows for more space for everyone in the row.

The company also says they expect the seats would be available on two airlines by April or May of 2020.

Last month, the S1 received approval from the Federal Aviation Administration to be installed on planes."

 

[Scoresman]

I flew on one of those giant A380s to Europe and it was the best in flight experience I've had in a while.  I guess with a full 2 stories of seat space, they don't mind giving people a little more room.  Also it was eerily quiet.  The sound of the engines was easily cut in half from a normal flight.  Makes takeoff feel weird because you dont get the sense that the engines are really going.  

 

[TheIronSheik]

I don't want it to take 6 hours to fly from Philly to SFO.  What is this, the 1700's? 

 

[The General]

They can keep the older planes in rotation but can we get a law that says once every, say 1000 flight hours, they have to park the jet and power spray the interior and let it air out for 2 days somewhere? 

Those things are disgusting.

 

[Ilov80s]

I remember in 1999 I flew to Spain and basically listened to the same Oasis CD on repeat. Last time I flew to Europe, i had free wi-fi and I had my own TV in my seat with streaming options to watch hundreds of movies, shows and the live NFL games. If that’s not innovation, what is?

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I remember in 1999 I flew to Spain and basically listened to the same Oasis CD on repeat. Last time I flew to Europe, i had free wi-fi and I had my own TV in my seat with streaming options to watch hundreds of movies, shows and the live NFL games. If that’s not innovation, what is?

Magic?

I get that there are subtle changes.  But look at the Model T to the current models.

Model T of Airplanes

 

[Ilov80s]

Magic?

Model T of Airplanes

It has wings, looks the same. 

 

[Fat Nick]

I think a lot of folks touched on it - planes look the same, but the technology (not just in-flight entertainment) is drastically different/improved.  30 years ago, pilots FLEW planes.  These days, pilots are crisis managers - the plane largely flies itself.  Pilots step in when decision-making needs become too complex for computers - i.e. emergencies, faulty equipment, diversions, etc.  I think you'd call a self-driving car a major leap forward in innovation...it's the same for a plane.  The reason the shape hasn't changed is that it works.  There's no need to upgrade/change the shape other than cosmetic appearance.  

 

[BoltBacker]

It depends on how you measure progress.

They are about to start(or recently started) non-stop flights between London and Sydney. It's a 19 hour flight which may not be the blueprint to progress to some, but the model T planes certainly couldn't do that. I thought the 17 hour flights I've taken were bad enough but by hour 17 you are kind of numb to the discomfort. I've never been a drug/booze guy but I'd definitely be willing to experiment on that flight.

 

[gianmarco]

there are more changes then you want to think.

Small changes to design but major changes to hardware, engines, materials, technology.

There is no reason for a complete design change when you are getting more and more efficient

'

A proposal to change how airplane seats are designed could make the worst seat on the plane a lot more comfortable. The “S1” design from a Colorado-based startup might actually make people want the middle seat, or at least make the flying experience less miserable.

Instead of being side-by-side, the three economy seats are staggered.

That would put the middle seat slightly behind the aisle and window seats, and make them slightly lower.

The company says moving the middle seat back allows for more space for everyone in the row.

The company also says they expect the seats would be available on two airlines by April or May of 2020.

Last month, the S1 received approval from the Federal Aviation Administration to be installed on planes."

S1 seats

S2 seats

S3 seats

Article on S1 seats

 

[comfortably numb]

I'm with you. 

30 years ago flights to Portugal were 6-7 hours.

I assumed 2 hour flights on a Concord would be the norm now. Speed is probably the biggest innovation I would have assumed we'd be ahead of.

I don't want it to take 6 hours to fly from Philly to SFO.  What is this, the 1700's? 

 

[Ron Swanson]

Speed is the one thing we haven't conquered.  Yes, we had the Concorde planes but they were never efficient.  They had to be subsidized by the French and British governments to be able to fly.  Essentially we have not been able to overcome the resistance vs. power requirements of high speed flights.

Everything else, other than seat size is vastly improved vs. 30 years ago.  And the seat size issue is more due to airlines trying to get more people onboard rather than charging more per ticket.  I'm honestly shocked at how cheap air travel is and how little it seems to have increased. I feel like the average booked in advance 4 hour flight is in the $300-$500 range and that's where it was 20-30 years ago as well.

 

[Scoresman]

One advancement I'd like to see them make is for them to realize that when my suitcase is 52 pounds, I'm moving those extra two pounds to my carryon.... which is going on the same plane.  

 

[belljr]

One advancement I'd like to see them make is for them to realize that when my suitcase is 52 pounds, I'm moving those extra two pounds to my carryon.... which is going on the same plane.  

It's not about plane weight. It's the line drawn for baggage handlers, 

I mean yeah there is some weight involved but you can pay for a heavier bag

 

[Sand]

It seems like everything has evolved and gotten better with time.  Except airplanes.  Why are we still flying in airplanes that look similar to the ones built 70 years ago?  Hell, we've even regressed a little.  We used to have the Concorde but that's gone.  How come we haven't come up with a better design to hold more passengers and have more room?  

The age of flight is highly overrated.  We just took pictures of Pluto a couple years ago and yet I still have to fly in a Greyhound Bus with wings.  Unacceptable.  

And if you came here to say "winglets", you can see yourself out now. 

Part of the problem, if you can call it that, is that the Wright brothers were friggin' brilliant.  The bar started pretty high on the design side.

I don't want it to take 6 hours to fly from Philly to SFO.  What is this, the 1700's? 

We need the SR71 back.

 

[KCitons]

"what's the deal with airline food"

 

[NutterButter]

I found this very informative.   

 

[eoMMan]

We should be able to teleport anywhere by now.

 

[D-Day]

We were able to land a man on the moon before we put wheels on luggage.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Speed is the one thing we haven't conquered.  Yes, we had the Concorde planes but they were never efficient.  They had to be subsidized by the French and British governments to be able to fly.  Essentially we have not been able to overcome the resistance vs. power requirements of high speed flights.

Everything else, other than seat size is vastly improved vs. 30 years ago.  And the seat size issue is more due to airlines trying to get more people onboard rather than charging more per ticket.  I'm honestly shocked at how cheap air travel is and how little it seems to have increased. I feel like the average booked in advance 4 hour flight is in the $300-$500 range and that's where it was 20-30 years ago as well.

But this is my point.  We've become faster and more efficient with most inventions over the years.  But not with air travel.  

 

[belljr]

But this is my point.  We've become faster and more efficient with most inventions over the years.  But not with air travel.  

That's easy.   We could get there faster but

1) more congestion today 

2) airlines make more money this way. Saves on fuel .  

 

[TheIronSheik]

That's easy.   We could get there faster but

1) more congestion today 

2) airlines make more money this way. Saves on fuel .  

But that's not efficient.  I'm saying come up with a better way of air travel.  We've made cars more efficient.  We've made them faster.  

 

[belljr]

But that's not efficient.  I'm saying come up with a better way of air travel.  We've made cars more efficient.  We've made them faster.  

Airplanes are efficient.   Airlines the way they are calculated now are optimizing their profits.

And just a little perspective on congestion

this is what your current airspace looks like right now

https://flightaware.com/live/   **

Its not like there is unlimited space with only one plane flying into the airport.  You need spacing for safety and efficiency ladning all these planes at various airports

That being said there is new technology on the horizon that will allow almost double the amount of planes landing in an hour.

If you are the only plane in the air I guarantee your flight is way faster

** There are currently 

Tracking 10,799 airborne aircraft with 935,119,632 total flights in the database.
FlightAware has tracked 134,825 arrivals in the last 24 hours.

 

[culdeus]

One advancement I'd like to see them make is for them to realize that when my suitcase is 52 pounds, I'm moving those extra two pounds to my carryon.... which is going on the same plane.  

Part of the logic here is the person lifting your bag in the plane is paid to lift 49 pound bags. 

 

[TheIronSheik]

Airplanes are efficient.   Airlines the way they are calculated now are optimizing their profits.

And just a little perspective on congestion

this is what your current airspace looks like right now

https://flightaware.com/live/

Its not like there is unlimited space with only one plane flying into the airport.  You need spacing for safety and efficiency ladning all these planes at various airports

That being said there is new technology on the horizon that will allow almost double the amount of planes landing in an hour.

I get all that, GB.  What I'm saying is that, yes, right now, we've maxed out what we can do.  But why haven't we evolved to the next level?  For a while, we could only have computers do calculations so fast, because they had to read punch cards and light vacuum tubes.  But then we developed better materials and figured out how to do things more efficient.  And over time, those materials actually became cheaper than the old ways.  

Why isn't this happening with flight?  I mean, is flight at peak?  And if so, does that mean that flying in airplanes will be like rigid airships?  Is the hyperloop really the next generation of accelerated travel?  And if so, does that mean flying through the air will one day be looked at as an archaic form of travel?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Part of the logic here is the person lifting your bag in the plane is paid to lift 49 pound bags. 

Jokes on him, because my bags are 50 el bees.

 

[belljr]

I get all that, GB.  What I'm saying is that, yes, right now, we've maxed out what we can do.  But why haven't we evolved to the next level?  For a while, we could only have computers do calculations so fast, because they had to read punch cards and light vacuum tubes.  But then we developed better materials and figured out how to do things more efficient.  And over time, those materials actually became cheaper than the old ways.  

Why isn't this happening with flight?  I mean, is flight at peak?  And if so, does that mean that flying in airplanes will be like rigid airships?  Is the hyperloop really the next generation of accelerated travel?  And if so, does that mean flying through the air will one day be looked at as an archaic form of travel?

maybe - but what Im saying is TODAY right now planes are physically able to do this...   

Airlines are maximizing profits.   

And we are close to the next level technology wise.   There is new technology to making tracking planes better and more efficient but planes need to adopt and install this equipment.  

There is new technology on the way that will assist controllers and allow more traffic flow through airports.

You can't just have planes flying a half mile from each other.  Safety standards require 3 mile separation on landing (2.5) in some other areas

I guess what I'm trying to convey is the answer isn't just make planes faster.  There is a whole giant puzzle fitting.

Plus the safety aspect.  The reason air travel is "slower to adopt" is safety.  You have millions of people traveling in the air. 

There are approximately 222 million licensed drivers in the US - Around 740 million people fly domestically a year.  Thats why the SuperMax thing is a big deal.

You can't jsut sign off on stuff that will potentially affect the safety of 740 million people.   

Its the reason the cell phone thing took so long.   Until you have 100% confirmation that cell phones dont affect airplanes you can't use it. I'm not willing to sign my name on the 1% chance it does

Not sure the point of my ramble - I guess I just think people don't realize the complexity of the entire system....

Yes I work in the industry

 

[Wrigley]

So do you like gladiator movies? 

 

[E Street Brat]

I can hardly tell the the difference between the Wright brothers plane and the B2 Spirit...

 

[E Street Brat]

Speed is the one thing we haven't conquered.  Yes, we had the Concorde planes but they were never efficient.  They had to be subsidized by the French and British governments to be able to fly.  Essentially we have not been able to overcome the resistance vs. power requirements of high speed flights.

The speed problem is the sonic boom. If you want faster planes, first you must build stronger windows.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If it keeps prices the same i dont care. We dont need plane innovations. We need passenger innovations. Like neanderthals to keep their shoes on. People not to recline when there is a tall guy/gal behind you. People to learn how to shower properly. Maybe to eat a salad now and again. Turn the sound off on their stupid fruit ninja. Etc

 

[belljr]

If it keeps prices the same i dont care. We dont need plane innovations. We need passenger innovations. Like neanderthals to keep their shoes on. People not to recline when there is a tall guy/gal behind you. People to learn how to shower properly. Maybe to eat a salad now and again. Turn the sound off on their stupid fruit ninja. Etc

And hot stewardesses that we can be misogynistic    

 

[Scoresman]

Part of the logic here is the person lifting your bag in the plane is paid to lift 49 pound bags. 

If baseball/football/basketball players and other athletes have been getting stronger over the years, why can't the baggage handling people do the same?

 

[TheIronSheik]

If baseball/football/basketball players and other athletes have been getting stronger over the years, why can't the baggage handling people do the same?

I'm all for allowing baggage handlers to use PED's.

 

[culdeus]

If baseball/football/basketball players and other athletes have been getting stronger over the years, why can't the baggage handling people do the same?

The reality is they haven't.  We are just better about identifying the right players earlier. 

 

[Copeman]

Do pilots even take off/land the planes now or is it all computers?

 

[Scoresman]

The reality is they haven't.  We are just better about identifying the right players earlier. 

Then let's get better at identifying the best baggage handlers.  

 

[culdeus]

Do pilots even take off/land the planes now or is it all computers?

They are experimenting with having just one pilot on certain planes and routes.   It's not going well so far.