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alex smith...ryan leaf (1 Viewer)

datems812

Footballguy
other than the fact that leaf went two and smith went one, can you see the similarities between these two busts. both went into the nfl as inexperienced juniors, both were in the same situation in terms of the heisman. both were drafted to teams that expected them to be a franchise qb and the savior for the front office. both were massivly overpayed. both entered the season with high expectations, and both ended the seasons as hugee busts. did smith have one game this season with more td's than int's. well this seems to happen with a majority of the junior quarterbacks that enter the draft...maybe it is a problem with experienceanyway respond back and tell me your thoughtsabout reggie bush...i think he is too good to be true, something must be wrong with him. i just dont think he will do that well in the nfl. (see ki-jana carter, people called him the next gale sayers too)peace

 

JZilla

Footballguy
Smith was a wasted first overall, Leaf was second overall. Smith was a much worse pick than Leaf because the 49ers had a lot bigger needs than QB, and Smith was far from a sure thing.On the other hand, Smith doesn't appear to be the complete t00l that Leaf is so he might come around.

 

GiantsRule

Footballguy
There is no similarities. Smith has some intelligence, leaf was a hothead
:goodposting: Let's let SF develop an O-line that can pass block before we totally rule on Smith ...
Nope. Alex is a bust. Just like that laughable QB from last year. What was his name? Eli something or other? What a horrible rookie season that guy had?Is he still in the league?

 

EBF

Footballguy
They're almost polar opposites. Ryan Leaf was a great physical talent with a ten cent head.Alex Smith is a mediocre physical talent with a good work ethic. He doesn't appear to have any football instincts, but he's definitely not a punk like Leaf.

 

Koya

Footballguy
They're almost polar opposites. Ryan Leaf was a great physical talent with a ten cent head.

Alex Smith is a mediocre physical talent with a good work ethic. He doesn't appear to have any football instincts, but he's definitely not a punk like Leaf.
:goodposting: While they may both end up being busts, it will be for different reasons.

Leaf had a CANNON of an arm. He also had cannonballs for brains. Smith has a weak arm, which, coupled with his inability to properly grip the NFL ball results in a lot of throws that he simply can not make.

He seems like a "nice guy" and is fairly intelligent from what I know - but does not have the physical tools to succeed.

Leaf had ALL the physical tools. Unfortunately, not nearly as much so as he was one.

 

Balco

Footballguy
Guys lets give Smith a break here. He plays with a terrible supporting cast, and defenses can focus on the 49ers passing game when they build up their inevitable 14-0 leads.Smith has a lot of learning to do, but he possesses the intelligence to succeed in the NFL. People rave about his work ethic, he lives in the film room. Ask any successful NFL qb how their first 16 starts went and I am sure they would tell you it was a huge adjustment. The 49ers need to surround Smith with some talent, starting with some lineman that can pass block. He needs some outlet receivers like a solid 3rd down back and a tight end (Eric Johnson seems to get hurt week 1 every year).It is definitely way to early to give up on him.

 

JZilla

Footballguy
Guys lets give Smith a break here. He plays with a terrible supporting cast, and defenses can focus on the 49ers passing game when they build up their inevitable 14-0 leads.

Smith has a lot of learning to do, but he possesses the intelligence to succeed in the NFL. People rave about his work ethic, he lives in the film room. Ask any successful NFL qb how their first 16 starts went and I am sure they would tell you it was a huge adjustment.

The 49ers need to surround Smith with some talent, starting with some lineman that can pass block. He needs some outlet receivers like a solid 3rd down back and a tight end (Eric Johnson seems to get hurt week 1 every year).

It is definitely way to early to give up on him.
They could have kept Rattay and addressed a lot of these needs. Crappy organization, they'll never give Smith the help he needs.
 

joffer

Footballguy
[QUOTE=']other than the fact that leaf went two and smith went one, can you see the similarities between these two busts. both went into the nfl as inexperienced juniors, both were in the same situation in terms of the heisman. both were drafted to teams that expected them to be a franchise qb and the savior for the front office. both were massivly overpayed. both entered the season with high expectations, and both ended the seasons as hugee busts.
[/QUOTE]really bad comparison, surprised you didn't add- both homo sapiens- both have never been in my kitchen
 
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Balco

Footballguy
Guys lets give Smith a break here.  He plays with a terrible supporting cast, and defenses can focus on the 49ers passing game when they build up their inevitable 14-0 leads.

Smith has a lot of learning to do, but he possesses the intelligence to succeed in the NFL.  People rave about his work ethic, he lives in the film room.  Ask any successful NFL qb how their first 16 starts went and I am sure they would tell you it was a huge adjustment. 

The 49ers need to surround Smith with some talent, starting with some lineman that can pass block.  He needs some outlet receivers like a solid 3rd down back and a tight end (Eric Johnson seems to get hurt week 1 every year).

It is definitely way to early to give up on him.
They could have kept Rattay and addressed a lot of these needs. Crappy organization, they'll never give Smith the help he needs.
Believe me, I said the same thing. I think Rattay could be a solid NFL starter, nothing flashy, but he makes good decisions. Unfortunately, he had a defender in his face .5 seconds after the snap. Add to the fact that Smith really wasn't considered a can't miss qb prospect. But . . . it is still premature. San Fran needs to address the offensive line and tight end on offense. Like I said in another post, they foolishly gave Jonas Jenning a truckload of money, and he had to be the worst left tackle in the NFL, a human turnstile. They need a left tackle who can give the qb more than 1 second to go through his progressions.

 

joffer

Footballguy
other than the fact that leaf went two and smith went one, can you see the similarities between these two busts. both went into the nfl as inexperienced juniors, both were in the same situation in terms of the heisman. both were drafted to teams that expected them to be a franchise qb and the savior for the front office. both were massivly overpayed. both entered the season with high expectations, and both ended the seasons as hugee busts.
really bad comparison, surprised you didn't add- both homo sapiens

- both have never been in my kitchen

[/QUOTE]your weird...
[/QUOTE]the point being, the criteria you used for comparison are incredibly general (basically, juniors that were drafted high) and are nowhere near specific enough to draw any correlation.
 
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datems812

Footballguy
i guess you guys are right...he does need a better supporting cast. but it does not seem to premature to be rating him to me...i just don't think he will pan out in the NFL, and a runningback or a lineman probably would have been a better pick.im surprised none of you have responded to my reggie bush statement...i really just dont think he will be that good. he is almost too good to be true. he must be injury prone, or something.

 

TFN1995

Footballguy
your so wrong. Alex Smith is good, but he small hands. If his hand were bigger he could become a franshise qb. Ryan Leaf is a disgrace to football. If your making the piont that you should not enter the draft as a junior. Then your impling that Jason White,Heisman winner 2004. Would have been a bust also? Reggie Bush is too good to be true. I also belive he will be a bust, nut can andone pass up the oppertunity to have him on thier team. When Portland passed up Mike Jordan to get some bust they missed out on a highly rate prospect but also a huge publoicity stunt. I am sure super publist Ken Sunshine would agree. Bush is not only a good player, but a big enough marketing OBJECT to sell out at least one game for the Texans. Peace Out!

 
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Balco

Footballguy
your so wrong. Alex Smith is good, but he small hands. If his hand were bigger he could become a franshise qb. Ryan Leaf is a disgrace to football. If your making the piont that you should not enter the draft as a junior. Then your impling that Jason White,Heisman winner 2004. Would have been a bust also?

Reggie Bush is too good to be true. I also belive he will be a bust, nut can andone pass up the oppertunity to have him on thier team. When Portland passed up Mike Jordan to get some bust they missed out on a highly rate prospect but also a huge publoicity stunt. I am sure super publist Ken Sunshine would agree. Bush is not only a good player, but a big enough marketing OBJECT to sell out at least one game for the Texans.

Peace Out!
Not to hijack the thread, but Sam Bowie was a highly regarded prospect, and Jordan was not considered to be the future greatest NBA player of all time. To compound matter, Bowie suffered a pretty serious leg injury and was never the same.
 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into?Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not careers make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field, he will never be as bad overall as Leaf. Leaf tore the team apart in a way Terrell Owens can only envy.

 
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datems812

Footballguy
ugh...TFN...SHUT UP... you didn't know who Ryan Leaf was until i told you who he was a couple of hours ago...and just a note about all draft picks (especially ones coming out of high school for basketball...thank god that fad ended with that new rule)...its always a crapshoot. you never know. and most of the time, the best players on the team come from the later picks in the draft. that is why i am strongly against overpaying a 1st rounder. you just never ever know.

 

datems812

Footballguy
How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into?

Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not a career make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field, he will never be as bad overall as Leaf. Leaf tore the team apart in a way Terrell Owens can only envy.
au contrare...rookie years do make a career. they get you known (john rocker, or maurice clarett's lack of one...we will talk about what happened today later) (michael jordan huge first year), or they can set forth a career of mediocrity, and looking back at him saying, wow he was so good his rookie year (in the case of anthony thomas, or kendrall bell) but once in a while you are correct, and some random player breaks out halfway through his career (phil simms)

 

JZilla

Footballguy
Guys lets give Smith a break here.  He plays with a terrible supporting cast, and defenses can focus on the 49ers passing game when they build up their inevitable 14-0 leads.

Smith has a lot of learning to do, but he possesses the intelligence to succeed in the NFL.  People rave about his work ethic, he lives in the film room.  Ask any successful NFL qb how their first 16 starts went and I am sure they would tell you it was a huge adjustment. 

The 49ers need to surround Smith with some talent, starting with some lineman that can pass block.  He needs some outlet receivers like a solid 3rd down back and a tight end (Eric Johnson seems to get hurt week 1 every year).

It is definitely way to early to give up on him.
They could have kept Rattay and addressed a lot of these needs. Crappy organization, they'll never give Smith the help he needs.
Believe me, I said the same thing. I think Rattay could be a solid NFL starter, nothing flashy, but he makes good decisions. Unfortunately, he had a defender in his face .5 seconds after the snap. Add to the fact that Smith really wasn't considered a can't miss qb prospect. But . . . it is still premature. San Fran needs to address the offensive line and tight end on offense. Like I said in another post, they foolishly gave Jonas Jenning a truckload of money, and he had to be the worst left tackle in the NFL, a human turnstile. They need a left tackle who can give the qb more than 1 second to go through his progressions.
It's these kinds of decisions that say it all about the York family and the organization in general. Alex Smith is as doomed as Leaf but for different reasons.As far as Leaf vs. Smith, yeah Leaf failed because he was such a clown, but I remember that draft and everyone was high on Leaf coming out of college. The big talk was who should go first, Manning or Leaf? And it seemed like legitimate discussion at the time. The dude was the complete package. Alex Smith, OTOH, had no business going first overall, or even in the top ten. My point is that the Chargers did not make a bonehead move, but the 49ers did.

 

3C's

Footballguy
'][QUOTE=Maurile Tremblay]How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into? Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not a career make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field said:
Drew Brees
 

3C's

Footballguy
For those saying SF should have passed on Smith, what should they have done? Picked Brown? Trade down? I'd think they would have had a hard time trading down. No one wanted the #1 pick. There really wasn't a bonafide #1 overall player out there.

 

JZilla

Footballguy
'][QUOTE=Maurile Tremblay]How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into? Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not a career make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field said:
Drew Brees
Perfect example of what you can do with an improved line and a stud go-to receiver (tight end in Brees' case). Brees is no Peyton Manning by any means but by building around him they made him a solid, effective QB. This is not rocket science.
 
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TwinTurbo

Footballguy
For those saying SF should have passed on Smith, what should they have done? Picked Brown? Trade down? I'd think they would have had a hard time trading down. No one wanted the #1 pick. There really wasn't a bonafide #1 overall player out there.
They should have traded down or drafted Braylon Edwards. Alex Smith was clearly not worthy of the #1 overall pick. If you can't trade the pick, then take a player who is at least a top five talent. Alex Smith would have been a late 1st/early 2nd round pick almost any other year.
 

JZilla

Footballguy
For those saying SF should have passed on Smith, what should they have done? Picked Brown? Trade down? I'd think they would have had a hard time trading down. No one wanted the #1 pick. There really wasn't a bonafide #1 overall player out there.
They should have traded down or drafted Braylon Edwards. Alex Smith was clearly not worthy of the #1 overall pick. If you can't trade the pick, then take a player who is at least a top five talent. Alex Smith would have been a late 1st/early 2nd round pick almost any other year.
:goodposting: Edwards is exactly what I would say, though there were also a lot of good corners in last year's draft... any of them at first overall would have been a slight reach but not as big a reach as Smith was. And last I heard they were starting a couple of paraplegics back there.

 

BoltBacker

Footballguy
'][QUOTE=Maurile Tremblay]How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into? Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not a career make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field said:
You're comparing different sports and different positions. How many QB's have looked like pro-bowlers their rookie season. How many have gone on to be pro-bowlers? QB's develop slower than any other position so it's silly to compare them to defensive players or RB's.I think the common thread that connects Smith and Leaf is they both play for terrible offenses that thrust them in the starting lineup way to early. What ever happened to letting a QB develop and adjust to the speed of the game?

All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
 

JZilla

Footballguy
'][QUOTE=Maurile Tremblay]How is this even a comparison? How many fans has Smith spit on? How many coaches has he lied to? How many reporters has he threatened? How many bar fights has he gotten into? Smith may or may not suck on the field. (Rookie years do not a career make.) But even he he sucks horribly on the field said:
You're comparing different sports and different positions. How many QB's have looked like pro-bowlers their rookie season. How many have gone on to be pro-bowlers? QB's develop slower than any other position so it's silly to compare them to defensive players or RB's.I think the common thread that connects Smith and Leaf is they both play for terrible offenses that thrust them in the starting lineup way to early. What ever happened to letting a QB develop and adjust to the speed of the game?

All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
I think the Chargers just need to get Rivers off of the books.
 

datems812

Footballguy
they could have taken a rb also, caddy or ronnie. aaron rodgers maybe?i dunno mabye thats too high for rodgers, but i can guarantee that he will pan out

 

azgroover

Footballguy
I'm in the small camp that thinks Leaf would have been an absolute stud had he been groomed slowly..despite the maturity issues. I honestly haven't seen many college QBs carry a team the way he did at Washington St.

 

JZilla

Footballguy
[QUOTE=']they could have taken a rb also, caddy or ronnie.

aaron rodgers maybe?

i dunno mabye thats too high for rodgers, but i can guarantee that he will pan out
[/QUOTE]I wouldn't have taken any of those RBs that high either, given the 49ers needs. Frank Gore was a GREAT pick in the third round though. I know, easy for me to say now.Really, they should have addressed the O-line in free agency/trades, with a vengeance, and taken a need like WR or CB with 1.01. Whoever said they really couldn't have traded down was right. They wouldn't have gotten anything.

 

Slinger

Footballguy
:11: Alex Smith just finished his rookie season with one of the worst supporting casts in football. BigBen, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning's rookie seasons are an extreme exception.I like that GiantsRule brought up Eli Manning really quickly here. He sucked really bad his first year in the league and now look at him. It takes QB's time to adjust to the speed of the game.

 

datems812

Footballguy
the problem with being the top pick in the draft is...YOU CAN'T BE GROOMED SLOWLY!!!!you are expected to come in and save a floundering franchise, not sit on the bench and watch the team suck again. obviously this was not the case for phillip rivers, but most of the time it is

 

JZilla

Footballguy
:11:  Alex Smith just finished his rookie season with one of the worst supporting casts in football.  BigBen, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning's rookie seasons are an extreme exception.

I like that GiantsRule brought up Eli Manning really quickly here.  He sucked really bad his first year in the league and now look at him.  It takes QB's time to adjust to the speed of the game.
Yeah he still sucks.Just kidding. Kinda.

Alex Smith != Eli Manning. Seriously.

 
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Slinger

Footballguy
:11:  Alex Smith just finished his rookie season with one of the worst supporting casts in football.  BigBen, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning's rookie seasons are an extreme exception.

I like that GiantsRule brought up Eli Manning really quickly here.  He sucked really bad his first year in the league and now look at him.  It takes QB's time to adjust to the speed of the game.
Yeah he still sucks.Just kidding. Kinda.

Alex Smith != Eli Manning. Seriously.
:excited:

Well who knows. That's my point. I don't have him in any of my dynasty leagues, but if I did I wouldn't be so quick to give up on him.

 

JZilla

Footballguy
Surprised the name Tim Couch hasn't been brought up. That poor sap. He really should've been something.

 

JZilla

Footballguy
:11:  Alex Smith just finished his rookie season with one of the worst supporting casts in football.  BigBen, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning's rookie seasons are an extreme exception.

I like that GiantsRule brought up Eli Manning really quickly here.  He sucked really bad his first year in the league and now look at him.  It takes QB's time to adjust to the speed of the game.
Yeah he still sucks.Just kidding. Kinda.

Alex Smith != Eli Manning. Seriously.
:excited: Well who knows. That's my point. I don't have him in any of my dynasty leagues, but if I did I wouldn't be so quick to give up on him.
Eli Manning was a justifiable first pick given his attributes and college career. Alex Smith was not.
 

3C's

Footballguy
For those saying SF should have passed on Smith, what should they have done? Picked Brown? Trade down? I'd think they would have had a hard time trading down. No one wanted the #1 pick. There really wasn't a bonafide #1 overall player out there.
They should have traded down or drafted Braylon Edwards. Alex Smith was clearly not worthy of the #1 overall pick. If you can't trade the pick, then take a player who is at least a top five talent. Alex Smith would have been a late 1st/early 2nd round pick almost any other year.
I really don't think they could have traded down...no clear #1. Braylon wouldn't be a bad pick, but still not a clear #1 and they spent a #1 on WR the year before. I agree with what this guy at theredzone said:"If San Francisco stayed put and did not look at a QB than Derrick Johnson and Antrel Rolle are the only other selections that make sense."

Note: that was posted before the draft.

 

BoltBacker

Footballguy
All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
I think the Chargers just need to get Rivers off of the books.
It's more expensive to get rid of him than keep him so I'll never understand that sentiment.
 

JZilla

Footballguy
All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
I think the Chargers just need to get Rivers off of the books.
It's more expensive to get rid of him than keep him so I'll never understand that sentiment.
Really? Honestly, I don't know a whole lot about how trades and the cap work, so I'll take your word for it. I do agree with you that continuing to sit can't hurt him.
 

3C's

Footballguy
All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
I think the Chargers just need to get Rivers off of the books.
It's more expensive to get rid of him than keep him so I'll never understand that sentiment.
And now with the Brees shoulder injury they might want to hold onto Rivers for a while.
 

3C's

Footballguy
All this talk that Rivers CAN'T sit for a THIRD year on the bench is hogwash. QB's can play some of their best ball past the age of 30. Playing too much too early with too little help surrounding you is much more dangerous than "wasting" the first three years of your career practicing against NFL quality defensive players and learning the in's and out's of an offense.
I think the Chargers just need to get Rivers off of the books.
It's more expensive to get rid of him than keep him so I'll never understand that sentiment.
Really? Honestly, I don't know a whole lot about how trades and the cap work, so I'll take your word for it. I do agree with you that continuing to sit can't hurt him.
Trades accelerate signing bonuses (AFAIK), so you get a big cap hit if you're near the beginning on a contract that includes bonuses.
 

bigfeet_88

Footballguy
A lot of rookie QBs don't do so well in their first year. Look at Joey Harrington.
Better example would be Aikman, who went #1 in 89 and went 1-15 in his first season with a real poor Cowboys team. He was a "smart guy" too. Of course with numerous draft picks in the following years from the Herschel Walker trade (ie Emmitt Smith et al.), he became not too shabby.
 

Loopdog

Footballguy
i havent seen someone so unimpressive in a long time physicallyim serioushe has a weak arm, seems to have no pocket awareness and quite frankly looks scared out of his mind on every playmaybe he'll get better, but i dont see iti think he's gonna be a bustjust dont see ANY flashes with himyou saw them with Eli, and some of the other guys mentioned here, but i dont see it with young Alex and his droogs....

 

datems812

Footballguy
A lot of rookie QBs don't do so well in their first year. Look at Joey Harrington.
:mellow:
yeah you are right....joey harrington NEVER DID WELL. and he never will. written off to the list of castawaysakili smith

tim couch

ryan leaf

phillip rivers (i'm not even giving him time, he got screwed over by the chargers)

alex smith (he got screwed too, but maybe he would do well if he had a line)

anyways, im glad you guys like my post, i think i am starting to really like this forum, even though i just joined last night....

why dont you guys respond to what im saying about bush?!?!?!?

i just think he is too good to be true...he wont pan out in the nfl...something has to be wrong with him

but that is just one man's opinion

 

JZilla

Footballguy
']akili smith tim couch ryan leaf phillip rivers (i'm not even giving him time said:
Two of those were bad bad bad stupid ####### picks. Both their names are Smith.The others just didn't work out.

Rivers didn't get screwed over. You can't bench Brees. Unfortunate situation for Rivers but I don't see him turning down any paychecks. His time will come and he'll be all the better for the time he spent with the clipboard.

Bush is good but he's not Barry Sanders. If he's drafted by a team with no line he'll get flattened.
 

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