Based on your DIY methods of needing 4 trips to Lowe's (I usually only need three) I would think you would appreciate the "spamming" so you don't have to make another trip "back to the store". hahahaKnocking all these down three spots for spamming the thread.
Had a busy DIY weekend installing a new pull down kitchen faucet and ADA compliant automatic door (4 trips to Lowe’s - it’s never as easy as I think it’ll be)
We on a deadline? I’ll have my 70s rankings done late afternoon if that’s not too late.
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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Unfortunately my girlfriend doesn’t have a milling machine setup in her home office. Was a nonstandard install on a very old fireproof door, had to build a new plate to mount the door handle and electronic deadbolt on. Then make a custom end plate to set the locks/latch. Then we got to do it all over again bc my future BIL decided to thread the wiring harness through the top part where all the moving parts are instead of looping it through the bottom. He drilled a screw right through the harness and pulled all the high gauge wiring out. What a mensch.
OH SORRY AM I BORING THE #### OUT OF YOU? Welcome to the world of reading your write ups. lol
Actually I found it quite interesting. Sounds like you need to find better help...hahaUnfortunately my girlfriend doesn’t have a milling machine setup in her home office. Was a nonstandard install on a very old fireproof door, had to build a new plate to mount the door handle and electronic deadbolt on. Then make a custom end plate to set the locks/latch. Then we got to do it all over again bc my future BIL decided to thread the wiring harness through the top part where all the moving parts are instead of looping it through the bottom. He drilled a screw right through the harness and pulled all the high gauge wiring out. What a mensch.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
A slight downgrade but really depends. Lot of teams ran three guard lineups for significant minutes with good success. In that era if you had a guy 6’4”-6’7” who was a 2 you could easily slide him to wingman. To me it’s more problematic playing a 3 as a PF or a 4 as a C or a 5 as a PF (there are obvious exceptions so it’s not a linear rule.)
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
well my apprentice had a great attitude & is full of positivity so it’s easy to overlook the lack of opposable thumbs
the sisters had a great weekend together (first time seeing each other since last fall) so still a successful visit
plus they went back to with three dozen fresh NYC bagels for the college bums (1 in grad school 1 senior 1 freshman) they’ve been quarantining with
also good to relearn for the 140th time I’m probably better off hiring a contractor
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
I have no problem waiting. Your viewpoint on this is very welcome and your 60s rankings were awesome, so I can give you more tome and still roll out the overall rankings tonight. I have my writeups mostly done, just need to fill in the final numbers and make any last minute tweaks.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I might pass on a prostrate exam that draws blood.Getting blooddrawn rn.
If you’re over 50 have your PSA checked every year. Prostrate cancer has a high chance for successful treatment bc it’s a slow growth disease but it’s super important you get results every year. Do the right thing. [/arnoldpalmerPSAPSA]
trader jake
Footballguy
You hear it all the time, "No blood, no foul...err, prostrate exam".Mister CIA said:
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Well there’s the test, and there’s screening. I’d recommend the screening. Weekly.Mister CIA said:
There’s the hen, and there’s the chicken. Which ones ####### the rooster? Somethings missing!
BTW Jim Chones is missing from the 70s Centers
Zegras11
Footballguy
higgins
Footballguy
I wasn't around for the 60's judging -- quick question:
There were compliments to BL's judging comments -- are comments/rationale required from each of the judges -or- simply list the 1-16 rankings?
I'll PM to YoMama shortly (depending to the answer to the above question).
There were compliments to BL's judging comments -- are comments/rationale required from each of the judges -or- simply list the 1-16 rankings?
I'll PM to YoMama shortly (depending to the answer to the above question).
Zegras11
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
No comments needed. Some people are giving me commentary and they can release those to the public if they want. Most just send me the rankings.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I’m unfortunately only sending rankings today but the 16 point team is pretty clear IMO
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I spent a lot of nights laying in bed listening to Joe Tait on three w E. Believe he just passed a few weeks ago.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Saw this over the weekend but didn’t get a chance to comment. Early MVPs of the ABA - Connie Hawkins could ball and proved it in both leagues. Mel Daniels was a major talent. Young Artis was transcendent, great shot blocker. Doc won 3 (one shared.) Thing is, if you go to the B-R MVP page, click on the voting for a year, you can then scroll through and look at all 9 seasons side by side with the NBA MVP voting. There were a couple debatable selections for the NBA 1967-76 and I’d love to know which ABAers should be discounted.
In 1976-77, first season post merger, 10 out of 24 at the ASG were ABA alumni, 4/10 All-NBA 1st & 2nd Team, 3/10 All-Defensive. I did not shift any ABA players down. Less defense and not as high of quality at the end of the bench? I’ll grant that. Was still a league full of stars and they had a fun (if unprofitable) brand. Too bad more people didn’t see it due to the lack of a big time tv contract.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
While we’re waiting anxiously for the 70s results, here’s a classic commercial to tide everyone over.
trader jake
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
1970s Rankings
Judging
I took all the rankings provided to me (11 total judges) and averaged all the scores for an overall ranking. Ties will be broken based on which team had the most judges ranking it higher (no ties this time).
There were some fairly distinct tiers with a mixture of team approaches – from targeting the greats of the game to punting and scooping up ABA players later on. There didn’t seem to be quite as much variability as the rankings as in the 60s, but we still had some fairly wide differences of opinion – partially due to how to fold in the ABA players and partially due to roster construction and longevity (a few teams in particular had some really wide ranges).
On to the rankings. . .
Judging
I took all the rankings provided to me (11 total judges) and averaged all the scores for an overall ranking. Ties will be broken based on which team had the most judges ranking it higher (no ties this time).
There were some fairly distinct tiers with a mixture of team approaches – from targeting the greats of the game to punting and scooping up ABA players later on. There didn’t seem to be quite as much variability as the rankings as in the 60s, but we still had some fairly wide differences of opinion – partially due to how to fold in the ABA players and partially due to roster construction and longevity (a few teams in particular had some really wide ranges).
On to the rankings. . .
Yo Mama
Footballguy
1970s Rankings, continued
VIRGINIA SQUIRES DIVISION
This franchise had some decent early ABA success on the court with greats such as Julius Erving, George Gervin, and Rick Barry (for a short time when he was fighting with the Warriors of the NBA). They even parlayed one season with Barry to win the ABA championship as the Oakland Oaks (with part-owner Pat Boone), but they couldn’t gain traction on any large amount of fans since the Warriors were a bigger draw so they moved to Washington. Because ABA/NBA merger discussions were already starting at that time, the other ABA owners convinced the Capitols to move to Virginia because the Bullets wanted to move to Washington and this was seen as an impediment to the merger at the time. They made the playoffs the first few years in Washington and Virginia and even won a few playoff rounds because the Squires added some great young talent in Erving and Gervin.
Playoff success and an ABA championship along with some of the all-time greats. So why are the Squires my team for the worst division in the rankings? They were horrible failures off the court and fell apart in epic fashion. Barry, Erving and Gervin were all traded for cash since the new owner was bogged down by financial troubles (the Tellman Fertita of the ABA). After selling off their top talent, the Squires’ last two seasons were the worst in ABA history – going 15-69 in 1974-75 and 15-68 in 1975-76. Their failures also weren’t just contained on the court, as a player actually sued the team after his paychecks bounced. Their last season, the Squires had 5 different head coaches. One final epic failure for the franchise happened when they folded just one month after the end of the season in 1976 – which happened to be just one month before the ABA/NBA merger, so they weren’t able to receive any of the compensation as a part of the merger. Oof.
The teams in this tier mainly punted drafting their 70s squad until the later rounds and those efforts definitely paid off.
16th place - 1 point
Instinctive - Mack Calvin, Donnie Freeman, Ron Boone, Bob Netolicky, Billy Paultz
Average Score: 2.55 Best: 8 Worst: 1
15th place - 2 points
Mister CIA - Fred Carter, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, Bob Love, Caldwell Jones
Average Score: 2.82 Best: 8 Worst: 1
14th place - 3 points
Scoobus - Freddie Lewis, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Rudy Tomjanovich, Bob Rule
Average Score: 3.09 Best: 5 Worst: 1
VIRGINIA SQUIRES DIVISION
This franchise had some decent early ABA success on the court with greats such as Julius Erving, George Gervin, and Rick Barry (for a short time when he was fighting with the Warriors of the NBA). They even parlayed one season with Barry to win the ABA championship as the Oakland Oaks (with part-owner Pat Boone), but they couldn’t gain traction on any large amount of fans since the Warriors were a bigger draw so they moved to Washington. Because ABA/NBA merger discussions were already starting at that time, the other ABA owners convinced the Capitols to move to Virginia because the Bullets wanted to move to Washington and this was seen as an impediment to the merger at the time. They made the playoffs the first few years in Washington and Virginia and even won a few playoff rounds because the Squires added some great young talent in Erving and Gervin.
Playoff success and an ABA championship along with some of the all-time greats. So why are the Squires my team for the worst division in the rankings? They were horrible failures off the court and fell apart in epic fashion. Barry, Erving and Gervin were all traded for cash since the new owner was bogged down by financial troubles (the Tellman Fertita of the ABA). After selling off their top talent, the Squires’ last two seasons were the worst in ABA history – going 15-69 in 1974-75 and 15-68 in 1975-76. Their failures also weren’t just contained on the court, as a player actually sued the team after his paychecks bounced. Their last season, the Squires had 5 different head coaches. One final epic failure for the franchise happened when they folded just one month after the end of the season in 1976 – which happened to be just one month before the ABA/NBA merger, so they weren’t able to receive any of the compensation as a part of the merger. Oof.
The teams in this tier mainly punted drafting their 70s squad until the later rounds and those efforts definitely paid off.
16th place - 1 point
Instinctive - Mack Calvin, Donnie Freeman, Ron Boone, Bob Netolicky, Billy Paultz
Average Score: 2.55 Best: 8 Worst: 1
15th place - 2 points
Mister CIA - Fred Carter, Brian Winters, Junior Bridgeman, Bob Love, Caldwell Jones
Average Score: 2.82 Best: 8 Worst: 1
14th place - 3 points
Scoobus - Freddie Lewis, Jeff Mullins, Jack Marin, Rudy Tomjanovich, Bob Rule
Average Score: 3.09 Best: 5 Worst: 1
Jayrod
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
1970s Rankings, continued
BUFFALO BRAVES / SAN DIEGO CLIPPERS DIVISION
Ah, those somewhat loveable losers Clippers (sorry EYLive). The start to this franchise is the first time it will be used as an example of bad teams, but you can sure bet it won’t be last. The Buffalo Braves had some decent success for a while, but they could never gain any great foothold with the fans because they shared their arena with the Buffalo Sabres of the NHL and also with the Canisius Golden Griffins men’s basketball team. The Griffins in particular had a longer-standing lease with the arena and had priority scheduling, so the Braves never had any prime game slots and couldn’t draw much attendance (seems like a theme for the later era Clippers too, right EY). The team was sold and the new owner decimated the roster to get so bad they were allowed out of their arena lease so they could move. The new owner swapped franchises with the owner of the Celtics in 1978, who moved the team to San Diego and renamed the franchise as the Clippers. So basically (for all you guys who say the Lakers can’t count the Minneapolis titles), the Clippers should count all of the 60s-70s titles from the original Celtics (13), and the new-Celtics should only count the titles post-1978 (4). Anyway, the Braves/Clippers had a winning percentage of only 41%, the worst of any NBA team that was in the league for the whole decade.
The teams in this tier had one or two excellent players, but weren’t deep enough to compete with the more well rounded teams and great players of the era.
13th place - 4 points
Modogg - Slick Watts, Geoff Petrie, Connie Hawkins, Mickey Johnson, Alvan Adams
Average Score: 4.64 Best: 8 Worst: 2
12th place - 5 points
Ilov80s - Archie Clark, Randy Smith, Scott Wedman, Larry Kenon, Bob McAdoo
Average Score: 5.91 Best: 9 Worst: 2
11th place - 6 points
Frosty - Jimmy Jones, Warren Jabali, Pete Maravich, Red Robbins, Mel Daniels
Average Score: 6.00 Best: 10 Worst: 1
10th place - 7 points
Doug B - Kevin Porter, Austin Carr, Billy Cunningham, George McGinnis, Elmore Smith
Average Score: 6.45 Best: 11 Worst: 4
BUFFALO BRAVES / SAN DIEGO CLIPPERS DIVISION
Ah, those somewhat loveable losers Clippers (sorry EYLive). The start to this franchise is the first time it will be used as an example of bad teams, but you can sure bet it won’t be last. The Buffalo Braves had some decent success for a while, but they could never gain any great foothold with the fans because they shared their arena with the Buffalo Sabres of the NHL and also with the Canisius Golden Griffins men’s basketball team. The Griffins in particular had a longer-standing lease with the arena and had priority scheduling, so the Braves never had any prime game slots and couldn’t draw much attendance (seems like a theme for the later era Clippers too, right EY). The team was sold and the new owner decimated the roster to get so bad they were allowed out of their arena lease so they could move. The new owner swapped franchises with the owner of the Celtics in 1978, who moved the team to San Diego and renamed the franchise as the Clippers. So basically (for all you guys who say the Lakers can’t count the Minneapolis titles), the Clippers should count all of the 60s-70s titles from the original Celtics (13), and the new-Celtics should only count the titles post-1978 (4). Anyway, the Braves/Clippers had a winning percentage of only 41%, the worst of any NBA team that was in the league for the whole decade.
The teams in this tier had one or two excellent players, but weren’t deep enough to compete with the more well rounded teams and great players of the era.
13th place - 4 points
Modogg - Slick Watts, Geoff Petrie, Connie Hawkins, Mickey Johnson, Alvan Adams
Average Score: 4.64 Best: 8 Worst: 2
12th place - 5 points
Ilov80s - Archie Clark, Randy Smith, Scott Wedman, Larry Kenon, Bob McAdoo
Average Score: 5.91 Best: 9 Worst: 2
11th place - 6 points
Frosty - Jimmy Jones, Warren Jabali, Pete Maravich, Red Robbins, Mel Daniels
Average Score: 6.00 Best: 10 Worst: 1
10th place - 7 points
Doug B - Kevin Porter, Austin Carr, Billy Cunningham, George McGinnis, Elmore Smith
Average Score: 6.45 Best: 11 Worst: 4
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Those were my bottom 4 and just had 2 teams in flipped order. Seemed pretty clear bottom tier.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
1970s Rankings, continued
INDIANA PACERS DIVISION
The dynasty of the ABA. In the nine years of the ABA, the Pacers went to the finals five times and won the championship three times. For some reason they were in the Western Division some years and the Eastern Division other years, but I decided not to try to decode that mystery. Superstars on the team were headlined by George McGinnins, Mel Daniels, and a number of others. The Pacers had a rough few years in the NBA post-merger, but their ABA dominance was worthy of our middle tier.
This tier had some excellent teams with great players on them and all were well constructed team wise, but just didn’t quite have enough to break into the top two tiers in the eyes of our judges.
9th place - 8 points
Timschochet - Walt Frazier, Louie Dampier, Willie Wise, Maurice Lucas, Darryl Dawkins
Average Score: 8.91 Best: 12 Worst: 6
8th place - 9 points
Wikkidpissah - Calvin Murphy, Charlie Scott, Cazzie Russell, Marvin Barnes, Dave Cowens
Average Score: 9.00 Best: 14 Worst: 4
7th place - 10 points
Gally - Dave Bing, Doug Collins, Bob Dandridge, Sidney Wicks, Dan Issel
Average Score: 9.82 Best: 15 Worst: 6
INDIANA PACERS DIVISION
The dynasty of the ABA. In the nine years of the ABA, the Pacers went to the finals five times and won the championship three times. For some reason they were in the Western Division some years and the Eastern Division other years, but I decided not to try to decode that mystery. Superstars on the team were headlined by George McGinnins, Mel Daniels, and a number of others. The Pacers had a rough few years in the NBA post-merger, but their ABA dominance was worthy of our middle tier.
This tier had some excellent teams with great players on them and all were well constructed team wise, but just didn’t quite have enough to break into the top two tiers in the eyes of our judges.
9th place - 8 points
Timschochet - Walt Frazier, Louie Dampier, Willie Wise, Maurice Lucas, Darryl Dawkins
Average Score: 8.91 Best: 12 Worst: 6
8th place - 9 points
Wikkidpissah - Calvin Murphy, Charlie Scott, Cazzie Russell, Marvin Barnes, Dave Cowens
Average Score: 9.00 Best: 14 Worst: 4
7th place - 10 points
Gally - Dave Bing, Doug Collins, Bob Dandridge, Sidney Wicks, Dan Issel
Average Score: 9.82 Best: 15 Worst: 6
Zegras11
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'm fine with the final ranking for this team (I had them 10th), but who in the world put Pistol Pete and Mel Daniels in last place?
Zegras11
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Just realized I didn’t notice your tie when I input your rankings. It didn’t change the overall rankings though.
trader jake
Footballguy
Combination of Pistol at small forward and Jabali slept with your girlfriend? Just admit it.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Looks like I was a little more down on @Kev4029 than most.
I just couldn't give Walton a ton of credit for only 1.5 peak seasons....there were too many great centers to give his injury history a pass. If he was up against the dumpster fire of the 80's centers, he'd have faired much better, but when you can't count on a guy night in and night out, it matters. Even during his "healthy" years, he barely played over 50 games/season.
The first great ability is availability. No show, do dough.
I just couldn't give Walton a ton of credit for only 1.5 peak seasons....there were too many great centers to give his injury history a pass. If he was up against the dumpster fire of the 80's centers, he'd have faired much better, but when you can't count on a guy night in and night out, it matters. Even during his "healthy" years, he barely played over 50 games/season.
The first great ability is availability. No show, do dough.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Pistol still gets to run up and down the same regulation size basketball court and shoot on a 10 ft rim even if he is a SF. He never played much defense regardless of his position.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I had my team 9th. Figure I got kind of the worst possible outcome from that. Though having an MVP might be enough to get me a little more boost. I guess I needed a better 2nd player attached to Mac.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
you were at the bottom of a close tier...
GALLY112
WIKKIDPISSAH111
TRADER JOE111
ILOV80'S107
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm curious to see the variability of scoring on my team. I think that at their peak, Walton/Westphal/Thompson are the best 3-man team of the draft, they were just rarely at their peak, especially Walton.
Kev4029
Footballguy
And that wasn't even my ranking (the bolded 15 pt team). I had me at 8th so right in the ballpark. So far (just like everyone else) i have every team listed within a couple of where they ended up so far. Top tiers still intact..
Thanks whoever put this squad as a 15 pointer....
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
even tho i paid little attention to the ABA til the mid-70s, i remembered all 5 of Instinctive's team and admired the courage of his afflictions. i didnt remember some of Frosty's, and i trust that. and re-positioning Pistol Pete (whom i drafted here a decade ago) to make room for 2 of em was egregious.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I had you at 11. My picks were really close to what we have so far as well so I feel good about my process.
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