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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (2 Viewers)

scoobus said:
Agree with this to a degree. Klay has had the luxury of playing with the greatest shooter of all time as his guard counterpart for his entire career. Would’ve been interesting to see him as the #1 option on a team during his prime and how that would’ve gone.
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Or maybe . . . It was Steph who had the luxury of playing aside the greatest shooter of all time. 
 

Crap, now I’m a Klay stan. 

 
4.07 - Dwight Howard - C/2000's

I wanted am athletic C to go with Duncan and Pippenin the front court. I am happy with Howard here as I think k he fits the bill.

@trader jakeon the clock

 
Gally said:
4.07 - Dwight Howard - C/2000's

I wanted am athletic C to go with Duncan and Pippenin the front court. I am happy with Howard here as I think k he fits the bill.

@trader jakeon the clock
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I love this pick and was starting to think maybe I'd get him. Highest reb% ever, I think (though not tracked in the days of Wilt/Russell), and a top 10 defensive player of all time IMO...plus got his 20 nightly.

ETA: that said I would have put Duncan at C and gone a very different direction. But the Spurs had a little success with Duncan and a somewhat athletic center so it'll probably work out ok. 

 
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4.08 George Mikan – C 1960s and prior

Y'all are sleepin’ on the previous generations in this “All-Time NBA-ABA Draft”, leaving a league cornerstone like Mikan until the 56th pick is highway robbery.  When the Lakers brag about all their franchise titles they can partially thank Mikan for those won in Minnesota.

He was THE player in the early days of the league and would later go on to be the Commissioner of the ABA, bringing gravitas and legitimacy to the league just by attaching his name to it.  He also fought to increase league pensions for older players and worked behind the scenes to bring a team back to Minnesota when the Timberwolves formed.

His toughness was legendary, leading his team to one of his five championship wins in 1950 while playing with a broken wrist.  The following season he played in the playoffs with a plate taped to his fractured leg.  This in a career where he broke ten bones and reportedly received over 160 stitches while manning the middle.   Remember that when your favorite player sits out every second game of back-to-backs.  #99

 
trader jake said:
4.08 George Mikan – C 1960s and prior

Y'all are sleepin’ on the previous generations in this “All-Time NBA-ABA Draft”, leaving a league cornerstone like Mikan until the 56th pick is highway robbery.  When the Lakers brag about all their franchise titles they can partially thank Mikan for those won in Minnesota.

He was THE player in the early days of the league and would later go on to be the Commissioner of the ABA, bringing gravitas and legitimacy to the league just by attaching his name to it.  He also fought to increase league pensions for older players and worked behind the scenes to bring a team back to Minnesota when the Timberwolves formed.

His toughness was legendary, leading his team to one of his five championship wins in 1950 while playing with a broken wrist.  The following season he played in the playoffs with a plate taped to his fractured leg.  This in a career where he broke ten bones and reportedly received over 160 stitches while manning the middle.   Remember that when your favorite player sits out every second game of back-to-backs.  #99
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Dang, they were really playing the Russian wrestling/basketball style back then from that video linked to the other day. How do you even get so many broken bones let alone playing through them. 
 

Conspiracy theory: Mikan was the original Mr. Glass. 

 
4.09  Tracy McGrady, SF/SG 2000s

Easily the best remaining player in the 2000s, IMO. One of if not the best scorers available in any decade. a monster 6'8" at shooting guard, capable of playmaking or spotting up, he'll fit very nicely next to Dirk and Oscar, forming a hellaciously long backcourt with the 6'5" Oscar, 6'8" McGrady, and the 6'7" Kawhi...all of whom you can find stories about how crazy long their arms are. Underrated defender. 

I think I would prefer Dwight, but I had these two as tops on the board, so I'll take it.

 
Instinctive said:
4.09  Tracy McGrady, SF/SG 2000s

Easily the best remaining player in the 2000s, IMO. One of if not the best scorers available in any decade. a monster 6'8" at shooting guard, capable of playmaking or spotting up, he'll fit very nicely next to Dirk and Oscar, forming a hellaciously long backcourt with the 6'5" Oscar, 6'8" McGrady, and the 6'7" Kawhi...all of whom you can find stories about how crazy long their arms are. Underrated defender. 

I think I would prefer Dwight, but I had these two as tops on the board, so I'll take it.
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Great pick, really really wanted him to fall

 
Instinctive said:
4.09  Tracy McGrady, SF/SG 2000s

Easily the best remaining player in the 2000s, IMO. One of if not the best scorers available in any decade. a monster 6'8" at shooting guard, capable of playmaking or spotting up, he'll fit very nicely next to Dirk and Oscar, forming a hellaciously long backcourt with the 6'5" Oscar, 6'8" McGrady, and the 6'7" Kawhi...all of whom you can find stories about how crazy long their arms are. Underrated defender. 

I think I would prefer Dwight, but I had these two as tops on the board, so I'll take it.
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I'm excited to see who you put in the middle of this.

 
Instinctive said:
4.09  Tracy McGrady, SF/SG 2000s

Easily the best remaining player in the 2000s, IMO. One of if not the best scorers available in any decade. a monster 6'8" at shooting guard, capable of playmaking or spotting up, he'll fit very nicely next to Dirk and Oscar, forming a hellaciously long backcourt with the 6'5" Oscar, 6'8" McGrady, and the 6'7" Kawhi...all of whom you can find stories about how crazy long their arms are. Underrated defender. 

I think I would prefer Dwight, but I had these two as tops on the board, so I'll take it.
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He was the other guy I debated between when I took Howard.  I thought there is a lot more talent at SG than C so I went with Howard.

 
trader jake said:
4.08 George Mikan – C 1960s and prior

Y'all are sleepin’ on the previous generations in this “All-Time NBA-ABA Draft”, leaving a league cornerstone like Mikan until the 56th pick is highway robbery.  When the Lakers brag about all their franchise titles they can partially thank Mikan for those won in Minnesota.

He was THE player in the early days of the league and would later go on to be the Commissioner of the ABA, bringing gravitas and legitimacy to the league just by attaching his name to it.  He also fought to increase league pensions for older players and worked behind the scenes to bring a team back to Minnesota when the Timberwolves formed.

His toughness was legendary, leading his team to one of his five championship wins in 1950 while playing with a broken wrist.  The following season he played in the playoffs with a plate taped to his fractured leg.  This in a career where he broke ten bones and reportedly received over 160 stitches while manning the middle.   Remember that when your favorite player sits out every second game of back-to-backs.  #99
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I thought about Mikan but with already having Duncan I thought Howard would fit better for my team.

 
Gally said:
He was the other guy I debated between when I took Howard.  I thought there is a lot more talent at SG than C so I went with Howard.
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I think I'd have gone Howard as well, but these were the two I had at the top of my board. So you did make my life easier. LOL. 

 
trader jake said:
4.08 George Mikan – C 1960s and prior

Y'all are sleepin’ on the previous generations in this “All-Time NBA-ABA Draft”, leaving a league cornerstone like Mikan until the 56th pick is highway robbery.  When the Lakers brag about all their franchise titles they can partially thank Mikan for those won in Minnesota.

He was THE player in the early days of the league and would later go on to be the Commissioner of the ABA, bringing gravitas and legitimacy to the league just by attaching his name to it.  He also fought to increase league pensions for older players and worked behind the scenes to bring a team back to Minnesota when the Timberwolves formed.

His toughness was legendary, leading his team to one of his five championship wins in 1950 while playing with a broken wrist.  The following season he played in the playoffs with a plate taped to his fractured leg.  This in a career where he broke ten bones and reportedly received over 160 stitches while manning the middle.   Remember that when your favorite player sits out every second game of back-to-backs.  #99
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This was the other person I was considering when I took Walton. The difference between him and the next best player in the 50s is much bigger than any other player in their decade... Unfortunately he's just soooo white and while I would love him on the decade team, it just seems so weird on the complete team.

 
Kev4029 said:
This was the other person I was considering when I took Walton. The difference between him and the next best player in the 50s is much bigger than any other player in their decade... Unfortunately he's just soooo white and while I would love him on the decade team, it just seems so weird on the complete team.
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Problem is, we are comparing Mikan to guys in the 60's as well.  He is the 3rd best center in his own era, while Dwight is easily the #1 in his.

 
Instinctive said:
4.09  Tracy McGrady, SF/SG 2000s

Easily the best remaining player in the 2000s, IMO. One of if not the best scorers available in any decade. a monster 6'8" at shooting guard, capable of playmaking or spotting up, he'll fit very nicely next to Dirk and Oscar, forming a hellaciously long backcourt with the 6'5" Oscar, 6'8" McGrady, and the 6'7" Kawhi...all of whom you can find stories about how crazy long their arms are. Underrated defender. 

I think I would prefer Dwight, but I had these two as tops on the board, so I'll take it.
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I was hoping he would somehow fall back to me. I think his peak may have better than Kobe or any other perimeter player from the 00s - his 3rd season in Orlando was nuts, but he could never win in the playoffs (injuries and poor supporting cast more than his own problems). 

 
modogg said:
Man, i am all over the place with who to grab. Few guys i wanted bad went recently. I really was hoping to grab guys i like as players, but this next one i will bite the bullet a bit. 

2.16  John Stockton  -  looking through all of these guys, i just couldn't get over Stockton's numbers. I think he may have even possibly been better then Magic. 

2nd overall in assists per game - and this is with really only having Karl Malone as a main guy to pass to. Pretty amazing considering his supporting cast

7th overall in steals/game:  i know Stockton had fast hands and was not a slouch on defense, but was surprised he averaged 2.2. steals/game over his career for 7th overall in NBA history. Never would have guessed he was that high

lot of stats that can be up up for this guy:

Per Game: 13.1 points, 10.5 assists, 2.7 rebounds, 2.2 steals

Per 75 Possessions: 15.7 points, 12.6 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 steals

Relative True Shooting Percentage: +7.6

Net Rating Swing: N/A

Box Plus/Minus: +3.5

i bet he would have scored more if he didn't facilitate so much, and think he can be argued to be a top 25 player of all time.  

Now i desperately need a big guy, but not sure.....  need little more time
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https://youtu.be/McNE1KxUp5c

 
Kev4029 said:
I was hoping he would somehow fall back to me. I think his peak may have better than Kobe or any other perimeter player from the 00s - his 3rd season in Orlando was nuts, but he could never win in the playoffs (injuries and poor supporting cast more than his own problems). 
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I had this line at the end before deleting it as potentially too hot of a take, and one not needed when McGrady's talent really doesn't need hyperbole: "If Shaq somehow played with McGrady in Orlando instead of Kobe in LA, they might both be considered in the top 5 of all players ever, with the potential to have won more titles than MJ and Pippen."

 
Instinctive said:
I had this line at the end before deleting it as potentially too hot of a take, and one not needed when McGrady's talent really doesn't need hyperbole: "If Shaq somehow played with McGrady in Orlando instead of Kobe in LA, they might both be considered in the top 5 of all players ever, with the potential to have won more titles than MJ and Pippen."
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not over MJ, def over Pippen though

 
Instinctive said:
I had this line at the end before deleting it as potentially too hot of a take, and one not needed when McGrady's talent really doesn't need hyperbole: "If Shaq somehow played with McGrady in Orlando instead of Kobe in LA, they might both be considered in the top 5 of all players ever, with the potential to have won more titles than MJ and Pippen."
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That's some fantasy sports thinking there.  McGrady didn't know how to win like Kobe and never defended at near the same level.  He was nearly as good at getting buckets over the season, but I'd give Kobe the ball with the game on the line 10 out of 10 times over McGrady.

ETA:  And I'm no Kobe fan.  I actually think he is overrated nowadays.

 
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Jayrod said:
Problem is, we are comparing Mikan to guys in the 60's as well.  He is the 3rd best center in his own era, while Dwight is easily the #1 in his.
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I agree with the first part, but would take exception to Howard being easily the #1 (assuming we are saying Shaq is exclusively 90s and Tim Duncan was actually a PF - they were certainly better and I know you aren't making that argument) there were two other centers that I would have close behind Howard.

 
Jayrod said:
That's some fantasy sports thinking there.  McGrady didn't know how to win like Kobe and never defended at near the same level.  He was nearly as good at getting buckets over the season, but I'd give Kobe the ball with the game on the line 10 out of 10 times over McGrady.
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Kobe was 40% in the clutch, and McGrady 37%. Kobe's best season of clutch was 46% to McGrady's 42%. Kobe's worst was 32% to McGrady's 35%. That's all I could come up with quickly, but I'd posit that too much of our mythmaking comes from opportunity rather than ability. I think it's an interesting question - if you swap the two of them for career situations, does Kobe ever win one?

 
Kev4029 said:
I agree with the first part, but would take exception to Howard being easily the #1 (assuming we are saying Shaq is exclusively 90s and Tim Duncan was actually a PF - they were certainly better and I know you aren't making that argument) there were two other centers that I would have close behind Howard.
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It's also funny because Duncan is on the team with Howard.

Shaq is tough to place because he was one of the guys who really had like his 5-10 best years perfectly straddling two decades.

 
modogg said:
not over MJ, def over Pippen though
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Yeah I mean the fact that he and Shaq would have been together in my hypothetical, I think MJ is still gonna be locked in as the 2nd best player behind LeBron. Just meant to say McGrady would maybe have ended up more favorably looked on than Kobe if their situations were swapped. Just a fun hypothetical.

 
Jayrod said:
That's some fantasy sports thinking there.  McGrady didn't know how to win like Kobe and never defended at near the same level.  He was nearly as good at getting buckets over the season, but I'd give Kobe the ball with the game on the line 10 out of 10 times over McGrady.

ETA:  And I'm no Kobe fan.  I actually think he is overrated nowadays.
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At his very peak he was Kobe's equal or better in everything other than defense - he was a better rebounder, shooter, and initiator for much of his career. And while McGrady wasn't an all-defense talent, he was a fine defender. He's another guy that would greatly benefit from the heliocentric offenses of the current league.

And McGrady was consistently great in the playoffs, but his #2 in both Orlando and Houston were constantly hurt and McGrady had some significant injuries himself. His lack of playoff success was not due to performance on his part.

 
Kev4029 said:
At his very peak he was Kobe's equal or better in everything other than defense - he was a better rebounder, shooter, and initiator for much of his career. And while McGrady wasn't an all-defense talent, he was a fine defender. He's another guy that would greatly benefit from the heliocentric offenses of the current league.

And McGrady was consistently great in the playoffs, but his #2 in both Orlando and Houston were constantly hurt and McGrady had some significant injuries himself. His lack of playoff success was not due to performance on his part.
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I remember one of my favorite games to be at was a duel between McGrady and Dirk in 07 (I think). McGrady went for like 50, Dirk went for like 30/10...and University of Illinois grad Luther Head played like the whole game (I know that's technically a spotlight but LOL) as a key cog. Of course the Rockets lost.

 
4.10 - Wes Unseld, C - 1970

MVP and Rookie of the Year after averaging 13.8 points and 18.2 rebounds in 1968-69

 
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I thought about Mikan. But the "and prior" portion of the 1960's category seems like an afterthought and he'll probably be the only guy from the 50's taken.

 
So my pantheon team thus far is extremely athletic so we will be running a lot, so I need another athlete who can keep up. While Lebron and Cousy are excellent defenders, Maravich is somewhat lacking in that area, so I need a defensive anchor. A defensive anchor who can keep up and who can finish in a variety of ways. So I give you:

4.11 C Alonzo Mourning, 90s

career stats: 17.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 2.8bpg. But, his numbers before the kidney issue? 20.3ppg, 9.8rpg, 3.0bpg. 12th all-time in blocks and 6th all-time in blocks per game.

Led the league in blocks twice, won DPOY twice, twice 1st team All Defense, 7 time All-Star. He may very well have won more Defensive awards if it wasn't for somebody I won't name. 

PG Bob Cousy

SG Pete Maravich

SF Lebron James

PF 

C Alonzo Mourning

Me likey

@Ilov80s @iLoveBushCookie

 
Frostillicus said:
So my pantheon team thus far is extremely athletic so we will be running a lot, so I need another athlete who can keep up. While Lebron and Cousy are excellent defenders, Maravich is somewhat lacking in that area, so I need a defensive anchor. A defensive anchor who can keep up and who can finish in a variety of ways. So I give you:

4.11 C Alonzo Mourning, 90s

career stats: 17.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 2.8bpg. But, his numbers before the kidney issue? 20.3ppg, 9.8rpg, 3.0bpg. 12th all-time in blocks and 6th all-time in blocks per game.

Led the league in blocks twice, won DPOY twice, twice 1st team All Defense, 7 time All-Star. He may very well have won more Defensive awards if it wasn't for somebody I won't name. 

PG Bob Cousy

SG Pete Maravich

SF Lebron James

PF 

C Alonzo Mourning

Me likey

@Ilov80s @iLoveBushCookie
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Great pick for 2 reasons, first of all it is not who I was going to pick and second of all I had him ranked over big Wes.

 
Frostillicus said:
So my pantheon team thus far is extremely athletic so we will be running a lot, so I need another athlete who can keep up. While Lebron and Cousy are excellent defenders, Maravich is somewhat lacking in that area, so I need a defensive anchor. A defensive anchor who can keep up and who can finish in a variety of ways. So I give you:

4.11 C Alonzo Mourning, 90s

career stats: 17.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 2.8bpg. But, his numbers before the kidney issue? 20.3ppg, 9.8rpg, 3.0bpg. 12th all-time in blocks and 6th all-time in blocks per game.

Led the league in blocks twice, won DPOY twice, twice 1st team All Defense, 7 time All-Star. He may very well have won more Defensive awards if it wasn't for somebody I won't name. 

PG Bob Cousy

SG Pete Maravich

SF Lebron James

PF 

C Alonzo Mourning

Me likey

@Ilov80s @iLoveBushCookie
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I will wait a few minutes to see if I love bush cookie wants to make this pick

 
 I had narrowed this pick down to one of two guys about 5 picks ago and I'm surprised they're both still available.

Honestly, I think the other guy that I'm not picking would be a better foundation for a team. But I'm not picking the foundation, I'm looking for a guy to fit with who I already have. So my choice is:

4.13 - Paul Pierce - 00's SF

The Captain will join Cap, the Greek Freak and Flash as a great complimentary piece.  On top of being the undisputed team leader and Finals MVP in '08, a 10 time All-star and 4 time all-NBA, he was a very good 3 pt shooter at 36.8% for his career and a good defender.  I needing someone to provide spacing and make the consistently smart play who can play alongside other greats and Pierce is that guy.

Edit: to change my pick number to the correct pick.

 
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Jayrod said:
Great pick for 2 reasons, first of all it is not who I was going to pick and second of all I had him ranked over big Wes.
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Amen. I was SWEATING this one hard. 

4.12 Dominique Wilkins SF 80s (may move to 90s as he straddles perfectly)

I consider this a massive steal. He's as explosive as any athlete to ever play in the league. The rim will never be safe with him on the court. Plus, during the 2nd half of his career he showed he was a pretty solid shooter (NBA record of 23 straight made FTs). If he had played on a better team or if Atlanta had done a better job building around him I think he's a 2nd round caliber player.The no rings is an easy ding against him.  At 6'8" I think if dropped into today's NBA, he would be even more valuable which is hard to make sense of considering:

9x All Star

7x All NBA

Career average of 24.8 points, 6.7 rebounds and 2.5 assists 

2 seasons averaging over 30

14th all time in scoring, one of only 22 players with more than 25,000 points 

Tore his achilles and came back like it was an ankle sprain

Did this all against an elite era, carrying the Hawks against loaded Celtics, Lakers, Pistons and Bulls teams. He was every bit the player Zeke, Jordan, Bird and Magic were. He just never got a Pippen, McHale, Kareem around to help him. 

Then there is also the team building aspect. I needed an athletic wing and iso scorer in the worst way. 'Nique is pretty much a 10/10 in those categories. Defense wasn't his strong suit but I think with Russ and Zeke out there, he would put his length and athleticism to better use on defense. All world potential is there. 

 
Jayrod said:
 I had narrowed this pick down to one of two guys about 5 picks ago and I'm surprised they're both still available.

Honestly, I think the other guy that I'm not picking would be a better foundation for a team. But I'm not picking the foundation, I'm looking for a guy to fit with who I already have. So my choice is:

4.12 - Paul Pierce - 00's SF

The Captain will join Cap, the Greek Freak and Flash as a great complimentary piece.  On top of being the undisputed team leader and Finals MVP in '08, a 10 time All-star and 4 time all-NBA, he was a very good 3 pt shooter at 36.8% for his career and a good defender.  I needing someone to provide spacing and make the consistently smart play who can play alongside other greats and Pierce is that guy.
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Wait, I thought I was up?

 
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