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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)

higgins said:
Not only getting sniped by Moncrief, but now English as well.... :scrambles:

I had this guy as a great pantheon starting center (1a) but took Dikembe (1b) first just to get the in-demand defensive specialist....

7'2", 250lb hulk -- All-time #27 pts, #5 rebounds (combined leagues), shot blocks not yet counted.

6.04 -- Artis Gilmore, 70's C.

@Doug B
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*posterity giggles at the gaggle of millenial bohunks selected before him*

 
modogg said:
Jokic is definitely up there, and i would have him as the 2nd best scorer who can;'t be stopped. But Embiid is close to 50/40/90 and is dominating when he needs to. Jokic is forced to do it all the time, but Embiid is doing in the framework of his team and saving up for the playoff run

will be fun to debate as the season goes on, but i do think i would take Embiid over Jokic if i even looked at it objectively. fun argument for both over those in the past too
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If I had an MVP vote and the season ended today, I would vote for Embiid. Not because he is a better offensive player, because he isn't, but because there is large difference between their defensive impact. Embiid's jump shooting is also going to regress to the mean which will pull his stats down in the second half. He's shooting 41.6% from 3 (career 31.9% prior to this year) and 59.8% from mid-range (38.7% prior to this year). That's nearly a third of his shots. He's also at 85.6% from the FT line compared to the rest of his career at 79.3%. Either he has made the biggest single season shooting leap in NBA history, or it's all a bit fluky. Due to the small sample size of ~170 jump shots, I'm assuming the latter.

Ultimately, they are both having better seasons than in the past for the same reason. They decided to show up in shape.

 
higgins said:
Not only getting sniped by Moncrief, but now English as well.... :scrambles:

I had this guy as a great pantheon starting center (1a) but took Dikembe (1b) first just to get the in-demand defensive specialist....

7'2", 250lb hulk -- All-time #27 pts, #5 rebounds (combined leagues), shot blocks not yet counted.

6.04 -- Artis Gilmore, 70's C.

@Doug B
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Damn. Thought for sure he was destined for my team.

 
6.05: SG Mitch Richmond, 1990s

Need a shooting guard with size (6'5", 220) to pair with Steph. Richmond had a versatile offensive game -- being able to create off the dribble, post up smaller guards, and drop back with an effective modern 3-ball against slower defenders. Highly prolific in what were then lower-tier franchises (Golden State and Sacramento), Richmond averaged 21.9+ ppg in each of his first ten seasons in the league. And unlike many high-volume scorers, Richmond was a plus defender

@Mister CIA

 
Kev4029 said:
If I had an MVP vote and the season ended today, I would vote for Embiid. Not because he is a better offensive player, because he isn't, but because there is large difference between their defensive impact. Embiid's jump shooting is also going to regress to the mean which will pull his stats down in the second half. He's shooting 41.6% from 3 (career 31.9% prior to this year) and 59.8% from mid-range (38.7% prior to this year). That's nearly a third of his shots. He's also at 85.6% from the FT line compared to the rest of his career at 79.3%. Either he has made the biggest single season shooting leap in NBA history, or it's all a bit fluky. Due to the small sample size of ~170 jump shots, I'm assuming the latter.

Ultimately, they are both having better seasons than in the past for the same reason. They decided to show up in shape.
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yeah, your points are valid, but i am leaning into Embiid making that big leap. I think we will see some regression, and i don't know if he ends the season 50/40/85, but i don't think it will drop a bunch either. 

i think there are some major differences this year. Last year's team was a literal trainwreck the way it was constructed and coached. You had 3 big guys in the paint all the time and there was no space to work or play. So i think one main reason is Doc coming in and refocusing the way the game is played. 

I think the other big one is natural maturation. Embiid loved just playing around the first 2 years of his career, and i think his growth can be attributed to growth outside of basketball (his life getting better settled with his wife and newborn) and mentally with his diet and conditioning. All kinds of rumours about his past habbits eating whatever he wanted, etc. and i think the new asst coaches coming in have helped hold him more accountable and more focused. 

Jury is possibly still out, and hopefully if our draft goes little longer it will help shape how Embiid is perceived. His touch on shooting is really impressive for a big man, seeing his free throw shooting and comparing to other big men is just crazy. His step back 3 at the end of regulation to tie it up against the Jazz for OT just shows that his shooting isn't flukey. And in the paint he can do what he wants. People can say Goebert is DPOY, but Embiid tore him for 41 and Simmons tore him for 42 the last time they played. 

His biggest downfall was his turnovers, and that would have held him back quite a bit. he has made significant strides this year with that and if he keeps that up i honestly think he can finish his career top 3 of all time. I wouldn't have said that last year, but with Morrey as GM for at least 5 years, and Doc's current coaching for 5 years, it seems like Embiid is set to be the focal point

 
I just got off the golf course.  I wanted Alex English so I am now going against the grain and selecting:

6.07 - Dolph Schayes - C/1960's

Stud in the old days. 

In the 1949–50 season, he was 6th in the league in assists, with 259. He led the NBA in rebounding in 1950–51 (in which he also had 10 of the top 14 individual rebounding games), with 1,080 and a 16.4-per-game average. He was third in the league in rebounding in 1952–53, with 920. In 1953–54, his 12.3 rebounds per game were fourth-best in the NBA.

In 1954–55, he led his team to the NBA championship.  In 1956–57, he led the league in minutes-per-game (39.6) and free throws (625), while grabbing 1,008 rebounds (3rd in the league) and averaging 22.6 points per game (4th in the league). In 1957, he set an NBA consecutive free throw record in a single game with 18. In 1957–58 he again led the league in minutes-per-game (40.5), and averaged a career-high 24.9 points per game, second in the league, while averaging 14.2 rebounds per game (fourth in the NBA).

Schayes led the NBA in free throw percentage three times: in 1958 (.904), 1960 (.892) and 1962 (.896).  In 1959, he scored a career-high 50 points in a game against the Celtics. In the NBA, he didn't miss a single game from February 17, 1952 to December 26, 1961, an NBA-record streak of 706 games. In 1960–61, he again led the league in free throws (with 680). In 1961, he became the first player in NBA history to amass 30,000 career total PRA (Points + Rebounds + Assists). He was the first person in the NBA to ever surpass 15,000 points.

A 12-time NBA All-Star, Schayes was a six-time All-NBA First Team honoree, and was also selected to the All-NBA Second Team six times. He came in second in MVP voting in 1958, and 5th in both 1956 and 1957. When he retired in 1964, he held the NBA records for games played (996), foul shots made (6,712), attempted (7,904), personal fouls (3,432) and was second in scoring (18,438) and third in rebounds (11,256).

In 1970, he was elected to the NBA 25th Anniversary Team as one of the top 12 retired players.

In 1972, he was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. He is also a member of the International Jewish Sports Hall of Fame, the US National Jewish Sports Hall of Fame, and the National Jewish American Sports Hall of Fame.

In 1996, he was selected as one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History.

Career highlights and awards

  • NBA champion (1955)
  • 12× NBA All-Star (1951–1962)
  • 6× All-NBA First Team (1952–1955, 1957, 1958)
  • 6× All-NBA Second Team (1950, 1951, 1956, 1959–1961)
  • NBA rebounding leader (1951)
  • NBA 25th Anniversary Team
  • NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
  • NBL Rookie of the Year (1949)
  • No. 4 retired by Philadelphia 76ers
  • Haggerty Award (1948)


@trader jake you are on the clock 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gally said:
I just got off the golf course.  I wanted Alex English so I am now going against the grain and selecting:

6.07 - Dolph Schayes - C/1960's

Stud in the old days.  @trader jake you are on the clock 
Click to expand...
12 All-NBA selections. The only 6 players that have more were selected in the top 18 in our draft. There are five others also with 12, they were gone by the 27th pick.

 
6.08 Chris Webber - PF 2000s

Webber reached a national audience as the best player in college basketball for two seasons while leading Michigan’s “Fab Five” to back-to-back championship games.  The brash confidence, black socks, baggy shorts, and (of course) sublime basketball on the court- primarily driven by Webber’s dominant play.  That squad had a cultural impact writers typically attribute to Iverson, but that team was four years ahead of the trend to push basketball’s hierarchy.

Webber brought all that and a bag of chips to the NBA, going #1 overall…and he wasn’t your average #1 pick.  He was the first sophomore since Magic Johnson to achieve that honor.  He was thought of so highly, the Warriors traded away the #3 pick and three future 1st rounders to land the all-around game of C-Webb.  Was he a big with positional diversity to match up with any opponent inside?  Was he a versatile playmaking wing?  The answer to both was yes.

Only some "questionable" refereeing in the 2002 Western Conference Finals kept that truly great, and highly entertaining, Sacramento Kings squad from their championship.  Chris Webber was a great, great player whose personality and energy could be felt through the television screen.  #4
 

 
trader jake said:
6.08 Chris Webber - PF 2000s

Webber reached a national audience as the best player in college basketball for two seasons while leading Michigan’s “Fab Five” to back-to-back championship games.  The brash confidence, black socks, baggy shorts, and (of course) sublime basketball on the court- primarily driven by Webber’s dominant play.  That squad had a cultural impact writers typically attribute to Iverson, but that team was four years ahead of the trend to push basketball’s hierarchy.

Webber brought all that and a bag of chips to the NBA, going #1 overall…and he wasn’t your average #1 pick.  He was the first sophomore since Magic Johnson to achieve that honor.  He was thought of so highly, the Warriors traded away the #3 pick and three future 1st rounders to land the all-around game of C-Webb.  Was he a big with positional diversity to match up with any opponent inside?  Was he a versatile playmaking wing?  The answer to both was yes.

Only some "questionable" refereeing in the 2002 Western Conference Finals kept that truly great, and highly entertaining, Sacramento Kings squad from their championship.  Chris Webber was a great, great player whose personality and energy could be felt through the television screen.  #4
 
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I thought about that but his lack of efficiency and he didn't come close to fulfilling his promise.  I felt that judging might ding him for not getting close to his potential. 

 
trader jake said:
6.08 Chris Webber - PF 2000s

Webber reached a national audience as the best player in college basketball for two seasons while leading Michigan’s “Fab Five” to back-to-back championship games.  The brash confidence, black socks, baggy shorts, and (of course) sublime basketball on the court- primarily driven by Webber’s dominant play.  That squad had a cultural impact writers typically attribute to Iverson, but that team was four years ahead of the trend to push basketball’s hierarchy.

Webber brought all that and a bag of chips to the NBA, going #1 overall…and he wasn’t your average #1 pick.  He was the first sophomore since Magic Johnson to achieve that honor.  He was thought of so highly, the Warriors traded away the #3 pick and three future 1st rounders to land the all-around game of C-Webb.  Was he a big with positional diversity to match up with any opponent inside?  Was he a versatile playmaking wing?  The answer to both was yes.

Only some "questionable" refereeing in the 2002 Western Conference Finals kept that truly great, and highly entertaining, Sacramento Kings squad from their championship.  Chris Webber was a great, great player whose personality and energy could be felt through the television screen.  #4
 
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Nice, he was the other one I had a hard time passing up at the turn. 

 
Being in the middle of the draft order is better than the ends, but it's still tough to anticipate who's on who's list.

 
6.09 Ben Wallace, C, 00s

There are two 4-time DPOY winners: Dikembe and Ben here. I don't know how much I love taking another 2000s guy here, but I think he does the most for my team in its current form. I really wanted Gilmore here and think he was a steal - had my eye on two of Thurmond/Dikembe/Gilmore/Wallace for like 3-4 rounds now as the guys to round out my squad. I really liked the Moncrief pick as a 6th man too.

This might be the roughest round between selections for me so far, pretty devastating to my board overall. I see like 5 other guys I think are fantastic picks waiting as well, so just going to have to hope one of them is there on the comeback. I'm fairly certain Wallace would not be. I gave a slight hesitation due to his height, before finding to nobody's surprise that he has the #wingspan of a 7'2" player. 

4x All Star

2x Rebounding champ

1x Block champ

1x NBA champ

4x DPOY

5x All NBA

6x All Defense

There's one other guy I'm going back and forth on over and over...pretty sure I'm going to second guess this for many rounds.

 
Gally said:
I thought about that but his lack of efficiency and he didn't come close to fulfilling his promise.  I felt that judging might ding him for not getting close to his potential. 
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In this format I really wanted versatility with the Pantheon squad.  Other than Mikan, every player on the squad thus far has multiple positional eligibility on Basketball reference.

George 'Iceman' Gervin: SG/SF
Larry Bird: SF/PF
Charles Barkley: PF/SF
George Mikan: C
Grant Hill: SF/SG
Chris Webber: PF/C

That type of diverse skill set pays huge dividends when facing the best of the best.  Got two big, bigs inside...good luck.  Have smaller players on the wing...you're toast.  Have a defensive weakness at a particular position...it will get exploited.  Also, with such a high level of intelligence and athleticism on the court for all these teams, the importance of 1on1 skills is much less than your average NBA game.  Same with a ball dominant player, especially at point guard.  Those aspects of a player's ability are important, just not as much when the best of the best are hoopin'.  Passing ability, rebounding, and the ability to match-up with vastly different line-up configurations are a must.

 
Instinctive said:
6.09 Ben Wallace, C, 00s

There are two 4-time DPOY winners: Dikembe and Ben here. I don't know how much I love taking another 2000s guy here, but I think he does the most for my team in its current form. I really wanted Gilmore here and think he was a steal - had my eye on two of Thurmond/Dikembe/Gilmore/Wallace for like 3-4 rounds now as the guys to round out my squad. I really liked the Moncrief pick as a 6th man too.

This might be the roughest round between selections for me so far, pretty devastating to my board overall. I see like 5 other guys I think are fantastic picks waiting as well, so just going to have to hope one of them is there on the comeback. I'm fairly certain Wallace would not be. I gave a slight hesitation due to his height, before finding to nobody's surprise that he has the #wingspan of a 7'2" player. 

4x All Star

2x Rebounding champ

1x Block champ

1x NBA champ

4x DPOY

5x All NBA

6x All Defense

There's one other guy I'm going back and forth on over and over...pretty sure I'm going to second guess this for many rounds.
Click to expand...
I've been very curious when people would start picking members of this Pistons team off the board. I loved watching Ben play.

 
Instinctive said:
6.09 Ben Wallace, C, 00s

There are two 4-time DPOY winners: Dikembe and Ben here. I don't know how much I love taking another 2000s guy here, but I think he does the most for my team in its current form. I really wanted Gilmore here and think he was a steal - had my eye on two of Thurmond/Dikembe/Gilmore/Wallace for like 3-4 rounds now as the guys to round out my squad. I really liked the Moncrief pick as a 6th man too.

This might be the roughest round between selections for me so far, pretty devastating to my board overall. I see like 5 other guys I think are fantastic picks waiting as well, so just going to have to hope one of them is there on the comeback. I'm fairly certain Wallace would not be. I gave a slight hesitation due to his height, before finding to nobody's surprise that he has the #wingspan of a 7'2" player. 

4x All Star

2x Rebounding champ

1x Block champ

1x NBA champ

4x DPOY

5x All NBA

6x All Defense

There's one other guy I'm going back and forth on over and over...pretty sure I'm going to second guess this for many rounds.
Click to expand...
arghhh, this one hurts a lot!!!!!! 

 
6.10 - Kyrie Irving, PG, 2010
Put him down for 25 points, 5.5 Assists, 1 steal and 2.5 3pts per game.
Champion, All-star, philanthropist and weirdo.

 
EYLive said:
6.10 - Kyrie Irving, PG, 2010
Put him down for 25 points, 5.5 Assists, 1 steal and 2.5 3pts per game.
Champion, All-star, philanthropist and weirdo.
Click to expand...
Do you lose points if your players decide they don't want to play or show up for things they agreed to in their contracts and don't tell anyone?

 
There are other guys I'd take over him if you just asked me in a vacuum, but in terms of skill sets he fits my team so well. I've looked at everybody left and they don't outweigh how much better he's about to make my pantheon team:

6.11 PF Kevin Love, 10s

5x All Star, 2x ALL-NBA, with career numbers of 18.2ppg and 11.1rpg and 37% career 3p %. 

PG Bob Cousy

SG Pete Maravich

SF Lebron James

PF Kevin Love

C Alonzo Mourning

BN: Willis Reed

You want to go big, we'll throw Mourning and Reed at you. You want to go small, Love will beat you up. With Lebron, Cousy, and Maravich running around passing through the lane I wanted a stand-still shooter. Love is my guy. 

@Ilov80s @ILoveJesus

 
Reminder the one hour clock starts tomorrow at 7am pacific / 10am eastern / something central. 
 

I’m not working tomorrow, so I won’t necessarily be up at the buttcrack of dawn, so if I could get some help moving things along in the morning that would be great.  
 

We’ve been doing pretty well so far, so hopefully we won’t need any / many skips. 
 

If someone was skipped and still hasn’t made up their pick, they can be skipped again. 
 

Please remember to @ the next person who’s up. Also, try to send a list if you’re going to be away for a while so you don’t get skipped. 
 

It’s also nice to @ the people who are on deck so they can get a warning and catch up before they’re on the clock. 
 

Clock ends at 5pm pacific and is off on weekends. 
 

 
Jayrod said:
Jokic is playing at an MVP level this season (and a lot of last season).

Love is a really good role player or the best player on a bad team.
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He has 1.5 really good years but that's not good enough for all time or even all decade teams. Same reason Doncic is a huge reach. 2 years that don't include winning championships just doesn't cut it.

 
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