wikkidpissah
Footballguy
THAT sweet. dont remember it being used at large. shoulda been, but i guess it was more a player thing
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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
Jayrod
Footballguy
7.04 - Dennis "DJ" Johnson - 80's SG
I got the 2 guys I really wanted coming in to this turn of the draft and they are great compliments to each other both off the bench on my pantheon team and as the central tandem on my 80's team. Dantley can score and rebound and DJ can do the rest (with a little scoring from time to time).
DJ was a 9 time all-defensive player, 5 x all-star, 2 x all-NBA, Finals MVP, a 3 x NBA champion and a hall of famer. He was famous for both shutting down opponents guards (i.e. Magic Johnson in the 1984 Finals) and clutch plays (buzzer beater in game 4 of '85 championship, finishing the layup after Bird's steal vs. Pistons).
He's a winner, a grinder and an all-time great defender. I missed out on Hondo, but DJ is the next best thing.
@Ilov80s
I got the 2 guys I really wanted coming in to this turn of the draft and they are great compliments to each other both off the bench on my pantheon team and as the central tandem on my 80's team. Dantley can score and rebound and DJ can do the rest (with a little scoring from time to time).
DJ was a 9 time all-defensive player, 5 x all-star, 2 x all-NBA, Finals MVP, a 3 x NBA champion and a hall of famer. He was famous for both shutting down opponents guards (i.e. Magic Johnson in the 1984 Finals) and clutch plays (buzzer beater in game 4 of '85 championship, finishing the layup after Bird's steal vs. Pistons).
He's a winner, a grinder and an all-time great defender. I missed out on Hondo, but DJ is the next best thing.
@Ilov80s
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Weird, I always thought of him more as a PG, but it looks like he played more SG in the first half of his career. Nice pick.
trader jake
Footballguy
Gotta admit, I was hoping a team would hurt their chemistry with the Vinsanity addition, but Tim already has Wilt, Harden, and Rodman. So...nice value pick?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
7.05 Joe Dumars SG 90s
6x All Star, 3x All NBA, 2x Champion, 5x All Defense
Pairing him up with his old backcourt mate Isiah since we know then can work flawlessly together. He’s going to provide clutch scoring, the 3 point shooting I need and first class perimeter defense that’s going to be important in a pantheon matchup where most teams have multiple elite perimeter scorers.
PG Isiah Thomas
SG Joe Dumars, Jimmy Butler
SF Dominique Wilkins
PF Bob Pettit, Bob McAdoo
C Bill Russell
Earlier critique was not enough shooting, I think Dumars and McAdoo just added that dimension, improved spacing and gave me a lot of flexibility. McAdoo being the original stretch 4 gives me a nice counter to Pettit. McAdoo can also go to center for a small lineup. If I want to get defensive, Butler can kick to 3 with Dumars at 2.
6x All Star, 3x All NBA, 2x Champion, 5x All Defense
Pairing him up with his old backcourt mate Isiah since we know then can work flawlessly together. He’s going to provide clutch scoring, the 3 point shooting I need and first class perimeter defense that’s going to be important in a pantheon matchup where most teams have multiple elite perimeter scorers.
PG Isiah Thomas
SG Joe Dumars, Jimmy Butler
SF Dominique Wilkins
PF Bob Pettit, Bob McAdoo
C Bill Russell
Earlier critique was not enough shooting, I think Dumars and McAdoo just added that dimension, improved spacing and gave me a lot of flexibility. McAdoo being the original stretch 4 gives me a nice counter to Pettit. McAdoo can also go to center for a small lineup. If I want to get defensive, Butler can kick to 3 with Dumars at 2.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
He was the Celts PG cuz they didnt have one - never one til then and not a good enough one to be so for any but the Greatest Front Line of All Time.. My favorite thing about him is that he hated Danny Ainge (sry for 29th-rd spotlighting) so much there were long periods he wouldnt pass him the ball directly. Danny would buzz around him til he'd almost throw it at his head, but he'd dump the ball to Bird for a touch pass on those occasions.
Jayrod
Footballguy
So long as the employ a team psychiatrist, they should be fine.Gotta admit, I was hoping a team would hurt their chemistry with the Vinsanity addition, but Tim already has Wilt, Harden, and Rodman. So...nice value pick?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
He was my consolation prize if I lost DJ through the turn. I like your scoring/defensive mix.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
THERE's the guy who was my perfect 6th man who i couldnt take w Pearl on the board. Strokestrokestroke, stopstopstop, let's win this and go home. a true champ in every respect. sorry to see him stuck in a backcourt w that petulatnt li'l #### again, good a match as it was....
Instinctive
Footballguy
I guess I should have taken Dumars over Schayes with my last pick. I flipped a coin and went with the older player due to scarcity. Back to the drawing board.
Instinctive
Footballguy
That's the first guy I feel like was sniped from me. ####.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Schayes - same as Black Jesus for me - 3x the star Dumars or most of the last 25 players taken ever thought of being. Dumars is just beautifully necessary, behind only Kevin Garnett as Most Complimentary
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Going with a yin and yang personality. Joe D and Russell to balance out Zeke and Butler. Any insight into what Pettit’s personality was?
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
met him (knew his brother in Reno). classic ol' boy, fascistically good manners, which puts a northern fella off. never stopped working on his game, but never really started working on making his teammates better. not selfish til he hadda be, tho - would have thrived in a Court of Dreams situation. and Russ loved/hated him dearly, so would value him as a teammate.
The real question was whether or not Schayes would have made it back. Looking at the players that have gone I think Schayes would have made it back. I agree I think Schayes is a better selection but trying to hit the middle and get both. haha
Jayrod
Footballguy
What are your thoughts on DJ? You'd take Dumars over him? I was back and forth a bit on them both, but DJ had a lot of postseason success as well in the clutch and seemed a great teammate (plus a key for 2 of the C's 16).
Instinctive
Footballguy
@wikkidpissah sent you a 2-man list. Hoping they aren't the next two picks lol. Appreciate if you can post for me if I'm not here.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
hard to say. even tho @Yo Mama put "1960s (and prior)" right up front, folks appear to have thought the 40s/50s were out. Schayes is one of only a half-dozen old white boys whose game would have converted without significant impact, so he was overdue when you did take him
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
yeah, i'd take Dumars first. but there's nobody else i would choose in the guard division of "rag him til he spits at you" body-up kinda defense over DJ and it's hard to deny any selection where a player's the all-time best @ sumn.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Yeah I’m thinking people are leery of how the 40s/50s guys will match up against the 60s guys, but I agree there are a number of the older guys who would hold their own in the 60s. Plus I’m assuming some of the judges will factor in accolades and accomplishments into the rankings and not just who would be who in a pick up game.
Jayrod
Footballguy
In the 40's, the NBA seemed more like golf...very white and exclusive. 50's was better, but not great (also went from 11 teams in 1950 down to 8 in 1959). At least for me, that's why I can't justify ranking them high enough to be drafted yet.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
60's weren't much better. Was never more than 30 African-Americans in the league at any given time IIRC.
Jayrod
Footballguy
He's one of only 4 guys I see making enough impact from the 50's era and justifying a pantheon spot (with Mikan, Cousy and Pettit).
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I had been looking at him for a couple rounds but already having Pettit and Russell he didn’t really fit in and was probably too big of a risk to invest that heavily into the 50s-60s era.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
well, there's aspects of it i miss, the way i miss 2-pt basketball (interesting idea for an expansion league) now, esp since, as a just-under-6'4, 50-inch shoulder, white New England power fwd, it's the game i learned how to be valuable in. but i recognized early on that about 3/4 of Mikan - all due credit for refining the post - was size and Cousy's game was so much based on being faster/shiftier than other white boys (he totes would have made his magic work somehow, tho - he was.....is indomitable). The more factotum positions hold up better than for Mr Insideses and Outsideses and pure shooters are pure shooters, so there are some who'd hold up no sweat.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
I'm here. Let me catch up.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
7.6 SG Bill Sharman, 60s
Frostillicus
Footballguy
So my 60s team will have Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman running around outside with Willis Reed in the middle. That's a nice start.
Jayrod
Footballguy
higgins
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
7.08 Chauncey Billups PG, Naughties (per list for @Instinctive)
whyohwhyohwhy didn't Pitino understand how to use the mofo?!?! He was our Tim Duncan consolation prize!!!!
@trader jake
whyohwhyohwhy didn't Pitino understand how to use the mofo?!?! He was our Tim Duncan consolation prize!!!!
@trader jake
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
Instinctive
Footballguy
Thank you sir! Just wrapped a meeting, so have some time to write-up Mr. Billups at 7.08:
I really wanted Dumars. Had a list of like 6 guys that have all gone in the past few picks, of which Billups is basically the last remaining one. Maybe the best shooter of the bunch (Dumars was actually a really good shooter too, hitting close to 40% on like 5 attempts a game for a five-year stretch), a fantastic pace setter, and another grinder on defense.
I'm at the point where I think everyone else is playing for second in the 2000s teams.
Chauncey Billups
Tracy McGrady
(insert literally anyone, #### you could put me down and this would be the best 2000s team still)
Dirk Nowitzki
Ben Wallace
Four pantheon-worthy guys in one decade, and they have a fantastic fit. All athletes. All good rebounders. Dirk a great hockey assister, Ben can cover anyone on the frontcourt, and Billups anyone in the backcourt. McGrady and Billups both do enough playmaking and have enough off-ball skills to split the load extremely well.
Billups also slots in nicely as a floor general to backup Oscar or play alongside him, to guard the best guy in the backcourt, and to light it up from outside - in addition to a pretty darn good finisher and FT draw-er.
ETA: 5x All Star, 3x All NBA, 2x All Defense (although like 5 more he should have that somehow Kobe got which is absolutely ridiculous), and a Finals MVP.
I really wanted Dumars. Had a list of like 6 guys that have all gone in the past few picks, of which Billups is basically the last remaining one. Maybe the best shooter of the bunch (Dumars was actually a really good shooter too, hitting close to 40% on like 5 attempts a game for a five-year stretch), a fantastic pace setter, and another grinder on defense.
I'm at the point where I think everyone else is playing for second in the 2000s teams.
Chauncey Billups
Tracy McGrady
(insert literally anyone, #### you could put me down and this would be the best 2000s team still)
Dirk Nowitzki
Ben Wallace
Four pantheon-worthy guys in one decade, and they have a fantastic fit. All athletes. All good rebounders. Dirk a great hockey assister, Ben can cover anyone on the frontcourt, and Billups anyone in the backcourt. McGrady and Billups both do enough playmaking and have enough off-ball skills to split the load extremely well.
Billups also slots in nicely as a floor general to backup Oscar or play alongside him, to guard the best guy in the backcourt, and to light it up from outside - in addition to a pretty darn good finisher and FT draw-er.
ETA: 5x All Star, 3x All NBA, 2x All Defense (although like 5 more he should have that somehow Kobe got which is absolutely ridiculous), and a Finals MVP.
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Yo Mama
Footballguy
The Minneapolis ones are fine thoughThis is why I don’t count most of those Celtics titles in my personal record book.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
This is the one makes me laugh most (even more than Artis Gilmore) to see new-age centers taken ahead of. If he had Shaq's knees, we'd still be talking about him. He was just too big & hoppy for dem knees. Yet he showed up and he showed up and he showed up for the Motor City year after year with naught but suffering and no hope a nuttin, still gave us some beyootiful ball like no one else's. First guy i rooted for in the NCAAs (mostly cuz nobody knew who da #### St Bonaventure was - at least Jacksonville was a place) and my favorite of the 2nd tier 70s centersI don't need another center but...
7.07 - Bob Lanier, C, 1970
He'll show up and give me 25 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks every night.
I may have messed up my own short list but maybe I gave someone else a headache too.
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Instinctive
Footballguy
I think in a vacuum I prefer Billups. But in the decades format, where I think the 2000s are easier to find, I preferred Dumars.
trader jake
Footballguy
7.09 Mark Price - PG 1990s
Criminally underrated because he played in the same period as John Stockton (and Jordan). He was that classic pass first point guard who was the very best player I’ve ever watched at splitting the high double-team when teams tried to get the ball out of his hands. He was tough as hell on defense and was just so damn smart, always getting into passing lanes and having a nose for the ball.
With these team breakdowns I identified him as a great pick that would fall way too far and I’m glad I sweated it out and still landed him. Think about this, for his entire career Price shot over 50% from 2pt, over 40% from 3pt, and over 90% from the free throw line. In his prime, in back-to-back-to-back seasons he shot .952, .947, and .948 from the charity stripe - this made end of game situations a done deal. With his ball-handling skills and knock down accuracy from deep, his skills would only be elevated in today’s game, but back then he was so damn tough. Just a rock at the point. #25
Criminally underrated because he played in the same period as John Stockton (and Jordan). He was that classic pass first point guard who was the very best player I’ve ever watched at splitting the high double-team when teams tried to get the ball out of his hands. He was tough as hell on defense and was just so damn smart, always getting into passing lanes and having a nose for the ball.
With these team breakdowns I identified him as a great pick that would fall way too far and I’m glad I sweated it out and still landed him. Think about this, for his entire career Price shot over 50% from 2pt, over 40% from 3pt, and over 90% from the free throw line. In his prime, in back-to-back-to-back seasons he shot .952, .947, and .948 from the charity stripe - this made end of game situations a done deal. With his ball-handling skills and knock down accuracy from deep, his skills would only be elevated in today’s game, but back then he was so damn tough. Just a rock at the point. #25
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nice- really was hoping he would survive another pass through. Second person after Bird to join the 50-40-90 club. He was Steve Nash like with his great shooting.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
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