***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (1 Viewer)

[modogg]

We should have done a worst in show category for negative points. The “best” of the worst team only gets minus 1 point. The worst of the worst gets minus 16 points.  Would have led to some awesome discussions. 

i don't know what others think, but i would be happy to run this back with another draft compilation. Not sure how we could tweak it, but focusing more on later years (2000-2005, 2006-2010, etc. and go with 2020-2025) could maybe be an option. Maybe allow a draft this way with us being able to draft the same players, but using a salary cap concept instead. 

Maybe base off of something like 2k ratings and cap the total number of points a team can have (i think they range from 1-100, so maybe a starting 5 with a total of like 380 or something?). Might be easier to oversee too because it would be up to players to make their calls and submit their lineups.

Maybe we just do one a sample draft like that from 2020-2025 and base off of this:  https://nba2kw.com/list/nba-2k21-all-player-ratings/. not sure how we would count future players coming in, or value over the course of the 5 years (Lebron has a 97 for 2K1, my guess is he isn't that high by 2025), but could be a fun way to draft again especially with the playoffs coming in a month or so

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings

Judging

I took all the rankings provided to me (11 total judges) and averaged all the scores for an overall ranking.  Ties will be broken based on which team had the most judges ranking it higher (we had one this time).  I also made the executive decision to adjust one set of rankings for one judge who gave himself a 16 and this decade wasn’t really close to getting that kind of a score.  I moved them down to match the top other judge’s score (which was still a bit of an outlier, but at least it’s better than a 16).  Let’s clean this up going forward.

We had some very clear top tiers and bottom tiers in this decade (very similar to the actual teams in the 80s), with a soft middle that had some pretty wide ranges of judging.  There were some goofy players in the 1980s, and there were definitely some goofy 80s teams in our drafting.

On to the rankings. . .

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS DIVISION

The Clippers make our second appearance in our bad teams divisions (won’t be the last time either).  They had a .312 winning % for the entire decade, but their crappiness goes beyond just their win-loss record.  In the 1981-82 season, the franchise was sold for a paltry $12.5M to Donald Sterling who would end up being one worst professional sports owners of all time (and top two for worst Donalds).  Sterling was fined one year for publicly guaranteeing the Clippers would lose enough games to get a high enough draft pick to select Ralph Sampson (they didn’t).  He was also fined for continuing to make his players fly coach on commercial flights to and from games.  Some hotels refused to house the Clippers because of non-payment disputes, and the team almost missed a game once because a bussing company stranded them at the airport after Sterling failed to pay for previous trips.  Sterling tried unsuccessfully to relocate the Clippers to Los Angeles a couple times, then finally did it without league approval in 1984.  The league sued Sterling for $25M, he countersued for $100M, and ultimately the league let him move to L.A. with just a $6M fine. 

The Clippers played in the crappy L.A. Sports Arena upon their move.  The only good thing about their games there was when my buddies and I would buy cheap seats to USC basketball games, sneak down to floor level because nobody was there and no one cared, then we’d wait/hide out after the games to go see the visiting NBA players show up for the Clippers games that started later in the day.  I ended up with some sweet autographs from those days and even high-fived both Dr. J and Magic one year (we flipped off Bird).

The other thing that happened to the Clippers this decade was the beginning of the Clippers Triangle or the Clippers Curse, where key players continually got seriously injured every year.

The teams in this tier are almost as bad as the Clippers were, but at least their team owners aren’t racist d-bags (at least as far as I am aware, I’ve been trying to stay out of the Politics Forum lately).

16th place - 1 point

Kev4029  - Johnny Moore, Byron Scott, Jim Paxon, Cedric Maxwell, RIck Mahorn

Average Score: 2.09   Best: 5   Worst: 1

15th place - 2 points

Modogg  - Mugsy Bogues, World B. Free, Orlando Woolridge, Calvin Natt, Mike Gminski

Average Score: 2.73   Best: 6   Worst: 1

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

CLEVELAND CAVALIERS DIVISION

The Cavs had a measly .398 winning percentage for the decade, but it was even worse before they turned things around late in the decade.  During the first 7 years of the 80s the Cavs averaged only 27 wins a season, headlined by an epic 15-67 season with a 24 game losing streak in 1981-82 (they somehow made the playoffs in 1985 with a 36-46 record in that span too).  Like the Clippers, the Cavs troubles were impacted greatly by an all-time horrible owner.  You know you are bad when the league has to create a rule with your name to keep future owners from making moves as bad as you did.  This is how we have the Stepien Rule, for owner Ted Stepien who bought the team in 1980 and kept giving away all their draft picks and making horrendous trades.  In Stepien’s 3 years as owner, the team went 66-180 and made six head coaching changes.  Once Stepien sold to the Gunds, things turned around a bit and set the franchise up for a solid late-80s run into the 90s, but the Cavs overall decade was still pretty awful overall.

The teams in this incredibly tight tier likewise made poor draft decisions that hampered them in the 80s.  Hopefully things can turn around in the 90s like the Cavs did.

14th place - 3 points

EYLive  - Norm Nixon, Eddie Johnson, Mike Mitchell, Truck Robinson, Swen Nater

Average Score: 4.73   Best: 11   Worst: 2

13th place - 4 points

Frosty  - Ricky Green, Rolando Blackmon, Purvis Short, Michael Cage, Tree Rollins

Average Score: 4.82   Best: 10   Worst: 1

12th place - 5 points (Gally won the tie break 7 judges to 4 over Frosty)

Gally - Ray Williams, Jeff Malone, Paul Pressey, Larry Nance, James Edwards

Average Score: 4.82   Best: 8   Worst: 2

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

DALLAS MAVERICKS DIVISION

As we transition from the bad teams of the decade to the good teams, the best example for this transition is the expansion Dallas Mavericks.  This expansion team in 1980-81 (named after the TV Western and co-owned at the time by James Garner) had an awful 15-67 record.  Kiki VanDeWeghe was their first draft choice, but he refused to play for an expansion team, so the Mavs traded him for a couple future draft picks.  Those picks turned into Rolando Blackman in 81 and Sam Perkins in 84, who helped the franchise make a successful turn for the second half of the decade (along with their other draft selections from their incredible 81 draft class Mark Aguirre and Jay Vincent).  The Mavs incredible drafting at the beginning of the decade set them up to make the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years of the decade, but never were able to get past the juggernaut Showtime Lakers team in the West.

The teams in this tier drafted well like the Mavericks, but weren’t able to make it all come together to get past the best teams in the era.

11th place - 6 points

Scoobus  - Doc Rivers, Otis Birdsong, Alex English, A.C. Green, Benoit Benjamin

Average Score: 6.55   Best: 10   Worst: 4

10th place - 7 points

Timschochet  - Spud Webb, Danny Ainge, James Worthy, Kiki VanDeWege, Bill Cartwright

Average Score: 7.00   Best: 9   Worst: 2

9th place - 8 points

Mister CIA  - Sleepy Floyd, Andrew Toney, Mark Aguirre, Terry Cummings, James Donaldson

Average Score: 7.27   Best: 11   Worst: 4

 

[higgins]

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

PHILADELPHIA 76ERS DIVISION

Man, did I love this team in the first half of the decade (at least when they weren’t playing against the Lakers).  The Sixers had the third best record in the decade with a .652 winning %, only missed the playoffs once in the decade, making the finals three times and winning the 1983 championship.  An incredible roster with multiple hall of famers headlined by one of the leagues true superstars.

These teams are all well-balanced with some excellent players here, but the judges couldn’t rank them up with the all-time greats in the top tiers.

8th place - 9 points

Higgins  - Maurice Cheeks, Reggie Theus, Xavier McDaniel, Buck Williams, Roy Tarpley

Average Score: 8.82   Best: 13   Worst: 5

7th place - 10 points

Yo Mama  - Michael Adams, Sidney Moncrief, Dale Ellis, Mychal Thompson, Robert Parish

Average Score: 9.36   Best: 13   Worst: 5

6th place - 11 points

Doug B  - Lafayette Lever, Ron Harper, Thurl Bailey, Kevin McHale, Joe Barry Carroll

Average Score: 10.55   Best: 13   Worst: 7

5th place - 12 points

Instinctive  - Micheal Ray Richardson, Alvin Robertson, Marques Johnson, Ralph Sampson, Bill Laimbeer

Average Score: 11.18   Best: 16   Worst: 3

 

[Gally]

The teams in this incredibly tight tier likewise made poor draft decisions that hampered them in the 80s.  Hopefully things can turn around in the 90s like the Cavs did.

12th place - 5 points (Gally won the tie break 7 judges to 4 over Frosty)

Gally - Ray Williams, Jeff Malone, Paul Pressey, Larry Nance, James Edwards

Average Score: 4.82   Best: 8   Worst: 2

My only poor draft decision for the 80's was waiting so long to fill out my team for this decade.  But was that really a poor decision?  There just wasn't any good value as the draft went along. 

I really liked the build of the team considering four of the five guys were drafted in the 23, 24, 27, & 29th rounds with only Larry Nance being taken "early" in the 9th round.  I pegged the team right around 12th so it finished as expected, although I did have myself 11th in my personal listing.  

 

[Yo Mama]

I always debate how fast to roll out the results. Going a little faster today since I’ve already delayed things enough, plus I’ve got all kinds of meetings today. 

 

[Yo Mama]

My only poor draft decision for the 80's was waiting so long to fill out my team for this decade.  But was that really a poor decision?  There just wasn't any good value as the draft went along. 

I really liked the build of the team considering four of the five guys were drafted in the 23, 24, 27, & 29th rounds with only Larry Nance being taken "early" in the 9th round.  I pegged the team right around 12th so it finished as expected, although I did have myself 11th in my personal listing.  

Yeah, bear with me. I try to find some thread that ties the teams to the narrative. Your decision was waiting too long on this decade I guess. 

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

BOSTON CELTICS DIVISION

The Celtics of the 1980s were one of the all-time marquee dynasties in NBA history.  They had a winning percentage for the decade of .722 that was ever so slightly the top of the 80s, made the playoffs every year, made it to the finals five times and won three championships, and featured one of the all-time great teams in their 1985-86 iteration.  I absolutely hated them.  I hated Bird and his stupid facial hair, I hated McHale and his Frankenstein body and flagrant fouls, I hated Maxwell and his stupid towel waving, Parish you’re cool, I hated those whiny cheap shot guys Ainge and Sichting, DJ is alright, I hated their stupid gym with a crappy floor and no AC, I hated their endless supply of ugly big men who were only there to give hard fouls (Kite, Roberts, etc).  BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

The teams in this tier were both incredibly good, but fell just short of the teams in the top tier in the rankings.  I don’t hate these teams.

4th place - 13 points

Jayrod  - Dennis Johnson, Adrian Dantley, Jamaal Wilkes, Dan Roundfield, Jeff Ruland

Average Score: 12.64   Best: 14   Worst: 10

3rd place - 14 points

Trader Jake - Derek Harper, Michael Cooper, Larry Bird, Sam Perkins, Mark Eaton

Average Score: 13.45   Best: 16   Worst: 6

 

[Yo Mama]

Yeah, bear with me. I try to find some thread that ties the teams to the narrative. Your decision was waiting too long on this decade I guess. 

Although I’m glad people are reading the writeups and not jus scrolling down to just look at the rankings. 

 

[scoobus]

Although I’m glad people are reading the writeups and not jus scrolling down to just look at the rankings. 

Writeups have been phenomenal.

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings, continued

LOS ANGELES LAKERS DIVISION

Showtime baby!  The greatest and most fun team in NBA history fighting an epic battle of good versus evil, a free-flowing modern game versus boring traditional “fundamental” basketball, inclusion and diversity versus the nefarious forces of racism and white supremacy.

[Steps off soap box]  The Showtime Lakers had a winning percentage of .721 for the decade (close enough that I’m calling it a tie for first), made the playoffs every year, made the finals an incredible eight times, and won the championship five times (with the first back to back wins in 20 years).  Clearly the best franchise of the decade and it wasn’t really close in my 100% unbiased opinion.

Our two teams in the top tier had icons at many positions and were ranked highly by all of our judges.

2nd place - 15 points

Ilov80s  - Isiah Thomas, Walter Davis, Dominique Wilkins, Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma

Average Score: 14.91   Best: 16   Worst: 12

1st place - 16 points

Wikkidpissah  - Magic Johnson, Darrell Griffith, Bernard King, Wayman Tisdale, Patrick Ewing

Average Score: 15.09   Best: 16   Worst: 12

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Final Rankings

16 pts - Wikkidpissah  - Magic Johnson, Darrell Griffith, Bernard King, Wayman Tisdale, Patrick Ewing

15 pts - Ilov80s  - Isiah Thomas, Walter Davis, Dominique Wilkins, Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma

14 pts - Trader Jake - Derek Harper, Michael Cooper, Larry Bird, Sam Perkins, Mark Eaton

13 pts - Jayrod  - Dennis Johnson, Adrian Dantley, Jamaal Wilkes, Dan Roundfield, Jeff Ruland

12 pts - Instinctive  - Micheal Ray Richardson, Alvin Robertson, Marques Johnson, Ralph Sampson, Bill Laimbeer

11 pts - Doug B  - Lafayette Lever, Ron Harper, Thurl Bailey, Kevin McHale, Joe Barry Carroll

10 pts - Yo Mama  - Michael Adams, Sidney Moncrief, Dale Ellis, Mychal Thompson, Robert Parish

9 pts - Higgins  - Maurice Cheeks, Reggie Theus, Xavier McDaniel, Buck Williams, Roy Tarpley

8 pts - Mister CIA  - Sleepy Floyd, Andrew Toney, Mark Aguirre, Terry Cummings, James Donaldson

7 pts - Timschochet  - Spud Webb, Danny Ainge, James Worthy, Kiki VanDeWege, Bill Cartwright

6 pts - Scoobus  - Doc Rivers, Otis Birdsong, Alex English, A.C. Green, Benoit Benjamin

5 pts - Gally - Ray Williams, Jeff Malone, Paul Pressey, Larry Nance, James Edwards

4 pts - Frosty  - Ricky Green, Rolando Blackmon, Purvis Short, Michael Cage, Tree Rollins

3 pts - EYLive  - Norm Nixon, Eddie Johnson, Mike Mitchell, Truck Robinson, Swen Nater

2 pts - Modogg  - Mugsy Bogues, World B. Free, Orlando Woolridge, Calvin Natt, Mike Gminski

1 pts - Kev4029  - Johnny Moore, Byron Scott, Jim Paxon, Cedric Maxwell, RIck Mahorn

 

[Yo Mama]

1980s Rankings Details

16 - Wikkidpissah  - 12,13,15,15,15,16,16,16,16,16,16

15 - Ilov80s  - 12,14,15,15,15,15,15,15,16,16,16

14 - Trader Jake - 6,13,13,14,14,14,14,14,15,15,16

13 - Jayrod  - 10,10,11,13,13,13,13,14,14,14,14

12 - Instinctive  - 3,6,12,12,12,12,12,12,12,14,16

11 - Doug B  - 7,9,10,10,10,11,11,11,12,12,13

10 - Yo Mama  - 5,6,7,8,9,10,10,11,11,13,13

9 - Higgins  - 5,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,10,11,13

8 - Mister CIA  - 4,4,5,5,6,7,9,9,9,11,11

7 - Timschochet  - 2,3,7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,9

6 - Scoobus  - 4,4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10

5 - Gally - 2,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,8

4 - Frosty  - 1,1,2,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10

3 - EYLive  - 2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,11,11

2 - Modogg  - 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,6

1 - Kev4029  - 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4,4,5

 

[scoobus]

1980s Rankings

Judging

I took all the rankings provided to me (11 total judges) and averaged all the scores for an overall ranking.  Ties will be broken based on which team had the most judges ranking it higher (we had one this time).  I also made the executive decision to adjust one set of rankings for one judge who gave himself a 16 and this decade wasn’t really close to getting that kind of a score.  I moved them down to match the top other judge’s score (which was still a bit of an outlier, but at least it’s better than a 16).  Let’s clean this up going forward.

Name names! Controversy!

 

[Yo Mama]

Combined Standings (60s, 70s, 80s)

36 - Ilov80s  (16, 5, 15)

35 - Trader Jake (9, 12, 14)

35 - Yo Mama  (11, 14, 10)

33 - Wikkidpissah  (8, 9, 16)

32 - Jayrod  (4, 15, 13)

28 - Instinctive  (15, 1, 12)

27 - Timschochet  (12, 8, 7)

26 - Higgins  (1, 16, 9)

25 - Kev4029  (13, 11, 1)

25 - Gally (10, 10, 5)

24 - Frosty  (14, 6, 4)

23 - EYLive  (7, 13, 3)

23 - Doug B  (5, 7, 11)

15 - Scoobus  (6, 3, 6)

12 - Mister CIA  (2, 2, 8 )

9 - Modogg  (3, 4, 2)

 

[Gally]

Yeah, bear with me. I try to find some thread that ties the teams to the narrative. Your decision was waiting too long on this decade I guess. 

I know you have to tie stuff together.  I wonder if there is a way that really shows who did the most with the least and vice versa.  Maybe overall draft pick average?.  I averaged pick 352 which placed it almost in the 22nd round and finished 12th.  I think that is fairly good value.

 

[Jayrod]

Once again, Magic is overrated and Bird underrated.  Like a used car salesman, Magic has everyone looking at the shiny wax job on the car and forgetting about the engine that is sputtering under the hood.  Griffith and Tisdale were both in the bottom tier of players at their positions (no offense @wikkidpissah) and should have drug this team down below the top spot.

 

[scoobus]

I know you have to tie stuff together.  I wonder if there is a way that really shows who did the most with the least and vice versa.  Maybe overall draft pick average?.  I averaged pick 352 which placed it almost in the 22nd round and finished 12th.  I think that is fairly good value.

I used a 6th rounder and finished one spot above you lol. Dammit Benoit!

 

[Gally]

I hit on 5 places exactly (Wikkid, 80's, Instinctiv, Doug B, and Kev).  My biggest misses basically just flipped spots in Timmy and Frosty (I had Frosty higher).  Everybody else was +/- 1 place (except for Yo Mama who I had 3 places lower than his finish).

 

[Jayrod]

I know you have to tie stuff together.  I wonder if there is a way that really shows who did the most with the least and vice versa.  Maybe overall draft pick average?.  I averaged pick 352 which placed it almost in the 22nd round and finished 12th.  I think that is fairly good value.

@trader jake and @Doug B both finished 4 spots higher than their average draft position for this era.

Trader Jake has been killing it.  Here is his average draft position rank vs. actual finish in each era so far:

• 60's - 15th ADP - #8 finish = +7 spots
  
• 70's - 7th ADP - #5 finish = +2 spots
  
• 80's - 7th ADP - #3 finish = +4 spots
  
• Total of +13 over his expected ranks based on draft position
  

Meanwhile, team Jayrod:

• 60's - 12th ADP - #13 = -1 spot
  
• 70's - 3rd ADP - #2 = +1 spot
  
• 80's - 4th ADP - #4 = 0 change
  
• Net change of 0 for the draft
  

At least I haven't screwed it up, I guess. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

Once again, Magic is overrated and Bird underrated.  Like a used car salesman, Magic has everyone looking at the shiny wax job on the car and forgetting about the engine that is sputtering under the hood.  Griffith and Tisdale were both in the bottom tier of players at their positions (no offense @wikkidpissah) and should have drug this team down below the top spot.

it was weird, actually - i had intended to have Paul Pressey @ the 2 and Jeff Ruland @ the 4 and i was gonna go into a whole shpiel how i would create mismatches at so many positions for Magic to exploit and create a pre-triangle triangle thang and ####. i knew i could wait on those last two, but i waited too long and got sniped on both. looking back, the Leprechaun was lookin out for me cuz, after i plugged in my NCAA-superstar/small-market-mercenary PlanB guys, i looked at the 5 and realized this was hella better squad than the one i designed ("my" team woulda been 5-6 spots down). just a cumminatcha crew on every level. thx for recognizing & rewarding, y'all - guess i have to turn my iconoclast badge at the next meeting, with my first-ever FFA draft win on any level. nufced

ETA: sorry 'bout your pooch, @Yo Mama's fam...

 

[Jayrod]

it was weird, actually - i had intended to have Paul Pressey @ the 2 and Jeff Ruland @ the 4 and i was gonna go into a whole shpiel how i would create mismatches at so many position for Magic to exploit and create a pre-triangle triangle thang and ####. i knew i could wait on those last two, but i waited too long and got sniped on both. looking back, the Leprechaun was lookin out for me cuz, after i plugged in my NCAA-superstar/small-market-mercenary PlanB guys, i looked at the 5 and realized this was hella better squad than the one i designed. just a cumminatcha crew on every level. thx for recognizing & rewarding, y'all - guess i have to turn my iconoclast badge at the next meeting, with my first-ever FFA draft win on any level. nufced

I'm know they had talent, but their NBA careers were not good.  My objective rankings had them literally as the #16 players at their positions in the era.

 

[BobbyLayne]

1980s Rankings Details

16 - Wikkidpissah  - 12,13,15,15,15,16,16,16,16,16,16

15 - Ilov80s  - 12,14,15,15,15,15,15,15,16,16,16

14 - Trader Jake - 6,13,13,14,14,14,14,14,15,15,16

13 - Jayrod  - 10,10,11,13,13,13,13,14,14,14,14

12 - Instinctive  - 3,6,12,12,12,12,12,12,12,14,16

11 - Doug B  - 7,9,10,10,10,11,11,11,12,12,13

10 - Yo Mama  - 5,6,7,8,9,10,10,11,11,13,13

9 - Higgins  - 5,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,10,11,13

8 - Mister CIA  - 4,4,5,5,6,7,9,9,9,11,11

7 - Timschochet  - 2,3,7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,9

6 - Scoobus  - 4,4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10

5 - Gally - 2,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,8

4 - Frosty  - 1,1,2,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10

3 - EYLive  - 2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,11,11

2 - Modogg  - 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,6

1 - Kev4029  - 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4,4,5

Interesting. Pretty close to mine except the top spot which was quite different:

Ilov80s 68 16 points

Trader Jake 15 points

Jayrod 14 points

Yo Mama 13 points

Wikkidpissah 12 points

Higgins 11 points

Frosty 10 points

Doug B 9 points

Scoobus 8 points

Timschochet 7 points

Instinctive 6 points

Mister CIA 5 points

Modogg 4 points

Gally 3 points

EYLive 2 points

Kev4029 1 point

 

[modogg]

Combined Standings (60s, 70s, 80s)

9 - Modogg  (3, 4, 2)

the Titanic is sinking.... but here come the future winners 

Teams with MJ, A.I. (the Answer to the ?) and Embiid will be dominating the fools on the hardwood 

"1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6ers.....  10, 9, 8, 76ers......"

ETA: we should have had a draft spot for which organizations/teams have the best theme music. Sixers i think own the top spot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiF410dFVM&ab_channel=Philadelphia76ers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QpRL03yPCs&ab_channel=NBC10Philadelphia

 

[Jayrod]

I was further off the final rankings in this era than the 2 previous.

I was 3 spots lower on wikkid, Mister CIA & Frosty

I was 2 spots higher on Scoobus & Modogg

I was off 1 spot on 7 others and got 3 matched up.

Total movement was 20 spots vs. 16 in each of the previous eras.

 

[Zegras11]

1980s Final Rankings

16 pts - Wikkidpissah  - Magic Johnson, Darrell Griffith, Bernard King, Wayman Tisdale, Patrick Ewing

15 pts - Ilov80s  - Isiah Thomas, Walter Davis, Dominique Wilkins, Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma

Tom ChambersWS79.0 YR16 AS4 MIN30.6 18.1 6.1 2.1 PER16.5 120 200

Wayman TisdaleWS45.7 YR12 AS0 MIN28.4 15.3 6.1 1.3 PER15.7 317 677
----------------------

 

Walter DavisWS76.9 YR15 AS 6 MIN27.9 18.9 3.0 3.8 PER19.1 104 207

Darrell GriffithWS22.0 YR10 AS0 MIN28.0 16.2 3.3 2.1 PER14.6 218 720


WS, YRS played, AS games, AVG MIN played, scoring avg, reb, assists, PER score, Top lame 500 rank, top 1000 rank.

I had these teams 1-2.  Magic not a huge gap over Isiah.  WIlkins not a huge gap over King.  Ewing not a huge gap over Sikma.  So Edge to Wikkid there on those three for sure, 2 players to one.

But Chambers and Davis are dramatically better than Tisdale and Griffith.

Chambers is drastically better than Tisdale in everything but REB.  Same with Davis.  The differences between these two and the other three pairs are far greater.   Chambers would also crush Tisdale in an in game match up.

Wikkid, you have a great team for sure there.  I just can't see how it's better than that team.  Could some one explain their reasoning?  What am I missing here? 

 

[Yo Mama]

Thinking I may have gone a little overboard with my Lakers vs Celtics rants . . . Nah, on second thought I think it was just fine and reasonable. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

I'm know they had talent, but their NBA careers were not good.  My objective rankings had them literally as the #16 players at their positions in the era.

among the many misconceptions i've seen among the young'uns here is how differently-conceived was basketball in the hinterlands before the Trey Era startrack-or-tank ethic. the Detroits & KCs & Clevs & LACs had no mobility and trapped a lotta guys in an endless twunnies-for-the-munnies cycle. had my two superstar scrubs ever had a reason...........

i'm kinda glad to show how much better they'd look running under Magic's passes and having Ewing cover their liabilities and King making sure everyone was "up" for the game.

 

[Zegras11]

I was further off the final rankings in this era than the 2 previous.

same me for me also.

 

[Yo Mama]

.

I had these teams 1-2.  Magic not a huge gap over Isiah.  WIlkins not a huge gap over King.  Ewing not a huge gap over Sikma.  So Edge to Wikkid there on those three for sure, 2 players to one.

But Chambers and Davis are dramatically better than Tisdale and Griffith.

Chambers is drastically better than Tisdale in everything but REB.  Same with Davis.  The differences between these two and the other three pairs are far greater.   Chambers would also crush Tisdale in an in game match up.

Wikkid, you have a great team for sure there.  I just can't see how it's better than that team.  Could some one explain their reasoning?  What am I missing here? 

Magic not being a huge gap over Isiah

 

[Zegras11]

Magic not being a huge gap over Isiah

still doesn't make up that difference

 

[Jayrod]

among the many misconceptions i've seen among the young'uns here is how differently-conceived was basketball in the hinterlands before the Trey Era startrack-or-tank ethic. the Detroits & KCs & Clevs & LACs had no mobility and trapped a lotta guys in an endless twunnies-for-the-munnies cycle. had my two superstar scrubs ever had a reason...........

i'm kinda glad to show how much better they'd look running under Magic's passes and having Ewing cover their liabilities and King making sure everyone was "up" for the game.

But if we were drafting based on woulda, coulda, shoulda, your 2000's team would win this thing.

This was supposed to be based on actual NBA achievements....which Tisdale and Griffith had very little of.

 

[wikkidpissah]

But if we were drafting based on woulda, coulda, shoulda, your 2000's team would win this thing.

This was supposed to be based on actual NBA achievements....which Tisdale and Griffith had very little of.

so sue me

 

[BobbyLayne]

Hey guys, my NBA interest started to wane with the ascension of MJ / decline of the Bad Boys. I don’t think I would be able to render quality judging in the remaining decades so I’m going to bow out.

Thanks for inviting me @Yo Mama and always great spending time with old friends @Doug B @higgins @Ilov80s @Jayrod @Mister CIA @timschochet @wikkidpissah  (no offense to the folks who weren’t doing TimDrafts in the oughts.)

Happy Easter and see ya on The Pool.

 

[Yo Mama]

Hey guys, my NBA interest started to wane with the ascension of MJ / decline of the Bad Boys. I don’t think I would be able to render quality judging in the remaining decades so I’m going to bow out.

Thanks for inviting me @Yo Mama and always great spending time with old friends @Doug B @higgins @Ilov80s @Jayrod @Mister CIA @timschochet @wikkidpissah  (no offense to the folks who weren’t doing TimDrafts in the ought.)

Happy Easter and see ya on The Pool.

Thanks BL, you’re input and insights were great. Thanks for helping out!

I’ll tag you again when we do the Best in Show and Pantheon judging in case you’re interested. 

 

[Zegras11]

Interesting. Pretty close to mine except the top spot which was quite different:

Ilov80s 68 16 points. (16)

Trader Jake 15 points (6)

Jayrod 14 points (14)

Yo Mama 13 points (10)

Wikkidpissah 12 points (15)

Higgins 11 points (8)

Frosty 10 points (2)

Doug B 9 points (13)

Scoobus 8 points (5)

Timschochet 7 points (9)

Instinctive 6 points (12)

Mister CIA 5 points (7)

Modogg 4 points (3)

Gally 3 points (4)

EYLive 2 points (11)

Kev4029 1 point (1)

I put mine next to yours.  #6-11 for me was all pretty close. They should all get 8's or 9's. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I had Wikkid on top and my team at 15. I have my very objective (but not perfect) system. So far it's lined up really closely with the final results so I feel good about it. Magic was such a high scorer in my system that it made the difference and pushed Wikkid past me. Also I didn't knock any points off for the Ewing pick. I decided just that if it was close enough, I would use that to split the difference. It wasn't close enough. That's just the power a single all time great like Magic can do in baseball to elevate a team. I also really valued winning titles. 

 

[Jayrod]

@trader jake and @Doug B both finished 4 spots higher than their average draft position for this era.

Trader Jake has been killing it.  Here is his average draft position rank vs. actual finish in each era so far:

• 60's - 15th ADP - #8 finish = +7 spots
  
• 70's - 7th ADP - #5 finish = +2 spots
  
• 80's - 7th ADP - #3 finish = +4 spots
  
• Total of +13 over his expected ranks based on draft position
  

Meanwhile, team Jayrod:

• 60's - 12th ADP - #13 = -1 spot
  
• 70's - 3rd ADP - #2 = +1 spot
  
• 80's - 4th ADP - #4 = 0 change
  
• Net change of 0 for the draft
  

At least I haven't screwed it up, I guess. 

@Gally since you asked the question, here is your team's ADP vs. final ranking:

• 60's - 7th ADP - #7 = 0 change
  
• 70's - 5th ADP - #7 = -2 spots
  
• 80's - 14th ADP -  #12 = +2 spots
  
• Net change of 0 for the draft 

 

[Ilov80s]

Hey guys, my NBA interest started to wane with the ascension of MJ / decline of the Bad Boys. I don’t think I would be able to render quality judging in the remaining decades so I’m going to bow out.

Thanks for inviting me @Yo Mama and always great spending time with old friends @Doug B @higgins @Ilov80s @Jayrod @Mister CIA @timschochet @wikkidpissah  (no offense to the folks who weren’t doing TimDrafts in the ought.)

Happy Easter and see ya on The Pool.

Awesome, thanks for the debates. It's best you leave now with the memory of me winning because I will be sinking fast over the next 3 decades. See you in the Lions thread. 

 

[Yo Mama]

1990s Rosters and Judging

- Writeups today

- Rankings due end of day tomorrow

- I’ll release results over the weekend

Modogg  - John Stockton, Michael Jordan, Dan Majerle, Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman

Timschochet  - Nick Van Exel, Penny Hardaway, Bryon Russell, Dennis Rodman, Shawn Bradley

Wikkidpissah  - Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Lewis, Danny Manning, Arvydas Sabonis

Jayrod  - Kenny Smith, Steve Smith, Derrick McKey, Christian Laettner, Hot Rod Williams

Ilov80s  - Kenny Anderson, Joe Dumars, Sean Elliott, Juwan Howard, Rony Seikaly

Frosty  - Terry Porter, Doug Christie, Glen Rice, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo Mourning

EYLive  - Mark Jackson, Alan Houston, Toni Kukoc, Charles Oakley, Jayson Williams

Instinctive  - Nate McMillan, Drazen Petrovic, Michael Finley, Dale Davis, Elden Campbell

Trader Jake - Mark Price, Hersey Hawkins, Grant Hill, Charles Barkley, Brad Daugherty

Gally - Terrell Brandon, Isaiah Rider, Scottie Pippen, Tom Gugliotta, Dino Radja

Mister CIA  - Gary Payton, Rod Strickland, Cedric Ceballos, Horace Grant, Hakeem Olajuwon

Doug B  - Micheal Williams, Mitch Richmond, Detlef Shrempf, Antonio McDyess, David Robinson

Higgins  - Tim Hardaway, Reggie Miller, Eddie Jones, Clifford Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo

Scoobus  - Mookie Blaylock, John Starks, Chris Mullin, Vin Baker, Kevin WIllis

Kev4029  - Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, Anthony Mason, Karl Malone, Rik Smits

Yo Mama  - Damon Stoudamire, Latrell Sprewell, Glenn Robinson, Otis Thorpe, Vlade Divac

 

[Instinctive]

So I ended up where I think I probably belonged for the 80s. But a 6 and a THREE?!

@BobbyLayne I saw you said you're the six - what was the thought?

And a 3...that feels like someone did a little RNG or something given may of the bottom teams. 

 

[modogg]

I was further off the final rankings in this era than the 2 previous.

I was 3 spots lower on wikkid, Mister CIA & Frosty

I was 2 spots higher on Scoobus & Modogg

I was off 1 spot on 7 others and got 3 matched up.

Total movement was 20 spots vs. 16 in each of the previous eras.

gracias. my teams seem to not be aligned with the judges views, so hoping my later teams can bring it back. Was surprised with my 60s and 70s team being so low, cross-referenced it with basketball-reference and i had most of those guys in or near the top 200 (i think) 

 

[Jayrod]

I had Wikkid and my team at 15. I have my very objective (but not perfect) system. So far it's lined up really closely with the final results so I feel good about it. Magic was such a high scorer in my system that it made the difference and pushed Wikkid past me. Also I didn't knock any points off for the Ewing pick. I decided just that if it was close enough, I would use that to split the difference. It wasn't close enough. That's just the power a single all time great like Magic can do in baseball to elevate a team. I also really valued winning titles. 

I use my objective calculations to generate an average overall ranking, an average score and average position ranking for each team and then I do subjective analysis to the teams after that for team fit, best era fit, etc.

Wikkid's average score was 1st due to how high Magic & Ewing both scored, but then his avg ranking was 6th and his average position ranking was 7th.  I just couldn't justify putting a team with that many holes in the #1 spot.  I wouldn't have been surprised to see his team fall anywhere between #2-5, but #1 did surprise me.

 

[Yo Mama]

Can you imagine the Magic versus Bird takes back then if Twitter, etc existed?

 

[trader jake]

Can you imagine the Magic versus Bird takes back then if Twitter, etc existed?

It would probably read like the comments sections of the various my side/your side political websites. 

As an aside, much appreciation to everyone for taking the time to judge and offer their opinions.  Of course we're not all going to agree on rankings, but everyone has been able to disagree without being disagreeable.   It's appreciated.

 

[Jayrod]

Jayrodsquad of the 1990's

I'll go ahead and get this out of the way early.  I don't think this is the worst team in the era despite the ADP.  They all actually played at least 7 seasons in the era and are in their primary position.

• PG - Kenny "the Jet" Smith - 2x champion, 39.9% career 3pt average, his shot had sidespin, great analyst
  
• SG - Steve "Smitty" Smith - 1x champ, 1x All-star, 3x's over 20 ppg, great NFL wide receiver and punt returner
  
• SF - Derrick "Heavy D" McKey - 2x all-Defensive, once had a triple double, part of the "Big Mac" trio in Seattle
  
• PF - Christian Laettner - 1x All-star, made Dream Team over Shaq, has no nickname but "most hated player ever"
  
• C - Hot Rod "John" Williams - 44th on career block list (45th bpg), his real name is John, doesn't actually own a hot rod
  

 

[BobbyLayne]

Can you imagine the Magic versus Bird takes back then if Twitter, etc existed?

Saw the Big E (pre-Magic days) in his sophomore year h.s. at Lansing Everett. The next two years the local station televised Lansing Eastern (Jay Vincent) VS Everett. They announced his decision to stay home to play at MSU over the PA system at OUR h.s. in the middle of class. Few days before that somebody saw him wearing U of M socks on the playground, ran a story about it.  

Never saw Bird until the 1979 NCAAs. Wasn’t much of a Championship Game but that rivalry really revitalized the league. They went from late night tape delayed Finals to the big time. The NBA went to a whole other level.

Bird at this peak (1982-83 to 1985-86) was in the GoAT discussion, which was unheard of for a cornerman. MJ made that notion seem trite within a few years. But I don’t recall anyone seriously championing Magic as the GoAT, ever. He was a singular player from go but unique never equated to best ever.