American held hostage by al Qaeda appeals to Obama... (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

If he deserted he deserves to be prosecuted for that, now that he's back. But even if he deserted he was still held hostage, an American held hostage and I'm glad we rescued him. (Unless you're Jules Winnifield and think he defected- what nonsense.)

As for the release of people, this was NOT a 5 for 1 exchange. This is was part of a larger deal that we've been working on for some time in order to bring about negotiations between the Taliban and the Karzai government. The release of this American was only a small part of that larger deal, which apparently is quite complex.

Prove this please.

Per Wiki:

For months, U.S. negotiators sought to arrange the transfer of five Taliban detainees held at Guantanamo Bay detention camp to the Gulf state of Qatar. The transfer was intended as one of a series of confidence-building measures designed to open the door to political talks between the Taliban and Afghan President Hamid Karzai's government.[50] That move – at the center of U.S. strategy for ending the long, costly conflict in Afghanistan – was supposed to lead directly to Bowe's release. The Taliban has consistently called for the United States to release those held at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for freeing Western prisoners. But the Guantanamo transfer proposal ground to a halt when the Taliban rejected U.S. conditions designed to ensure transferred Taliban would not slip away and re-emerge as military leaders.[51] Ultimately, the Obama administration agreed to the prisoner exchange allowing Bergdahl to be released on May 31, 2014.[52]

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I thought the Roman Polanski thread was the apex of tim's work around here, but I was obviously underestimating his abilities.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Maybe we injected some kind of micro-GPS into the bad guys we released. That way, when they go back and join their evil friends it's drone time!

If not....This should be standard protocol ....

I like this idea

 

[StrikeS2k]

If he deserted he deserves to be prosecuted for that, now that he's back. But even if he deserted he was still held hostage, an American held hostage and I'm glad we rescued him. (Unless you're Jules Winnifield and think he defected- what nonsense.)

As for the release of people, this was NOT a 5 for 1 exchange. This is was part of a larger deal that we've been working on for some time in order to bring about negotiations between the Taliban and the Karzai government. The release of this American was only a small part of that larger deal, which apparently is quite complex.

Prove this please.

Per Wiki:

For months, U.S. negotiators sought to arrange the transfer of five Taliban detainees held at Guantanamo Bay detention camp to the Gulf state of Qatar. The transfer was intended as one of a series of confidence-building measures designed to open the door to political talks between the Taliban and Afghan President Hamid Karzai's government.[50] That move – at the center of U.S. strategy for ending the long, costly conflict in Afghanistan – was supposed to lead directly to Bowe's release. The Taliban has consistently called for the United States to release those held at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for freeing Western prisoners. But the Guantanamo transfer proposal ground to a halt when the Taliban rejected U.S. conditions designed to ensure transferred Taliban would not slip away and re-emerge as military leaders.[51] Ultimately, the Obama administration agreed to the prisoner exchange allowing Bergdahl to be released on May 31, 2014.[52]

Well, if Wikipedia says it it must be true. Did you read the statements from the Afghan government? They apparently weren't part of this "plan." Don't you think it would be wise to include them in the "plan" instead of pissing them off? Or maybe this is just a bunch of BS. Seriously, do you really think we would trust the Taliban to follow through on a pinky swear promise to be more cooperative with the Afghan government that they despise?

 

[Captain Quinoa]

That was a rhetorical question, because I know what's wrong. If this were anybody but Obama, the country would celebrate that we got one of ours back safely and be damned of the cost. But not with Obama. Whatever he does has got to be wrong.

Right. Except all the people on page one who said we don't negotiate with terrorists (including noted right-wing nutjob NCCommish).

Negotiating actually puts more Americans in that region at risk of being kidnapped. Can't negotiate with terrorist.

Sucks for him. A good reason why Pakistan shouldn't be on Americans' travel plans.

Very callous attitude by some of you guys. You realize the kidnappers make them say these things

Sorry if it seems callous but it's the truth. We can't negotiate with them at all or kidnappings will go off the charts. And we aren't going to stop bombing AQ with drones.

This seems like a non-issue. Yes, it's very sad and unfortunate. However, we cannot negotiate with terrorists and when he went to that part of the world he assumed the risk. Clearly this is an AQ ploy to get involved with the U.S. elections. I'm curious to see if and how the republicans make this an issue??

I feel for his guy and also for OUR POTUS. I'm no fan of President Obama's but I know that these are the decisions that suck the most. The ones that maybe a no brainer but still your letting an American life, that is being held in the balance, sway the terrorists way. I think that is why we have a policy that we don't negotiate with terrorist (period). I just hope that this guy can somehow escape but as history shows this will most likely end badly. Unless, of course, we discover where he is and the President sends in a rescue team. I would be heavily on the Obama train for at least a week or so, if that happened. I assume Mr. President won't be getting much sleep until this has run it's course for good or bad.

Oh and those quotes were not even in reference to suspected deserter Bergdahl, but rather some unsuspecting 70 year old contractor.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I thought the Roman Polanski thread was the apex of tim's work around here, but I was obviously underestimating his abilities.

Have you read the NSA thread?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What a laugh.

Guess who showed up for the Sunday morning talk shows?

Yep, Susan Rice.

He served the United States with honor and distinction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdGe0uP7W-c

 

[StrikeS2k]

If he actually deserted and joined the Taliban voluntarily, which is what people here seem to be implying, then yes the trade makes no sense and deserves not only criticism but incredulity. And for precisely that reason, I'm not buying it.

No one is saying he joined the Taliban. Heck, I don't think anyone thinks he was a member of the Taliban either voluntarily or involuntarily. God, you're horrible.

You don't even read the posts here do you? Jules Winnifield wrote:

He deserted (no proof) and it looks like he defected (no proof).

Assuming that's what he meant, who else said it? Because you said "people" are saying it in this thread. That suggests at a minimum two, but more a general theme that you're getting. If you are just referring to Jules why didn't you simply quote or address him? If you're referring to more than him please specify which other posts are part of your assertion.

Bump for Tim.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I thought the Roman Polanski thread was the apex of tim's work around here, but I was obviously underestimating his abilities.

To bad Bergdahl didn't defend his post like Tim is defending his.

 

[Reaper]

Whatever emotional strings are being pulled - we must remember not to become the thing we hate. That is all I got to say.

Not sure it applies though. This is US SOP and has been forever. We do not reward terrorists for taking hostages. No matter how old, cute, lovable they may be.

This is insane.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Tim. Stay down. Seriously.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If he deserted he deserves to be prosecuted for that, now that he's back. But even if he deserted he was still held hostage, an American held hostage and I'm glad we rescued him. (Unless you're Jules Winnifield and think he defected- what nonsense.)

As for the release of people, this was NOT a 5 for 1 exchange. This is was part of a larger deal that we've been working on for some time in order to bring about negotiations between the Taliban and the Karzai government. The release of this American was only a small part of that larger deal, which apparently is quite complex.

Prove this please.

Per Wiki:

For months, U.S. negotiators sought to arrange the transfer of five Taliban detainees held at Guantanamo Bay detention camp to the Gulf state of Qatar. The transfer was intended as one of a series of confidence-building measures designed to open the door to political talks between the Taliban and Afghan President Hamid Karzai's government.[50] That move – at the center of U.S. strategy for ending the long, costly conflict in Afghanistan – was supposed to lead directly to Bowe's release. The Taliban has consistently called for the United States to release those held at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for freeing Western prisoners. But the Guantanamo transfer proposal ground to a halt when the Taliban rejected U.S. conditions designed to ensure transferred Taliban would not slip away and re-emerge as military leaders.[51] Ultimately, the Obama administration agreed to the prisoner exchange allowing Bergdahl to be released on May 31, 2014.[52]

Tim, that source article was from 5/9/12. Obama could have made this deal a long time ago, with or without Bergdahl.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/10/us-usa-afghanistan-prisoner-idUSBRE8481BI20120510

This is Andrew McCarthy's response, among other:

Obama’s overriding goal has been to end the war, not to win it — as if it were possible, by walking away, to end a war that the enemy started and continues to fight. The president has thus announced that our forces — which aren’t being permitted to prosecute a war anyway — are being pulled out. Less than 10,000 will remain as sitting ducks from an abandoned mission by the end of this year, and all of them will be withdrawn by the end of 2016. The president knows the Taliban are ascendant, aggressive, and biding their time until they can seize control again. He knows that the Taliban’s official return will be a boon to al-Qaeda, which Taliban leadership continues to support. So Obama is trying to portray a humiliating American defeat as an Obama foreign-affairs triumph: The Taliban’s return will be made to look like a negotiated peace settlement instead of a surrender. The prisoner swap is just the latest accommodation of the Taliban on the road to this sorry outcome.

Considering Obama's goals, it is impossible to defend the surge, it's impossible to defend the continuation of the war into his second term, it's impossible to understand why he did not just hand over these 5 criminal, killing maniacs and let us all get on with getting out of there.

How many US soldiers have died during Obama's administration when the whole goal was to just leave, not win?

Really, the whole thing is plain awful.

 

[whoknew]

Guys are coming out of the woodwork dumping on Bardahl on the Spartan Brigade's Facebook Page.

Bergdahl told his parents he was "ashamed to even be American." Bergdahl, who mailed home boxes containing his uniform and books, also wrote: "The future is too good to waste on lies. And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong."....this says it all if it's true

I say we welcome him home with a firing squad. hes a piece of trash and everyone from ft rich knows it the only person less American than that man is the president for giving up 5 hvt's for the dog turd

Hope they hang him once in custody then recapture the 5 we have to give up for this ###..... He isn't worth the air he takes up, and I hope the army finally tells his family of how worthless and a disgrace to the (United States, the Army, to Paratroopers, and to 4/25)

Michelle Johnson Roach, maybe if you knew the truth and the sacrifices made from people in our units in Alaska to find this ##### you wouldn't feel the way you do. I feel worse for the kids who have to grow up fatherless cause their daddies died looking for this punk. What was ignorant about what Brandon Fall said??? He's completely right Bergdahl has some splainin to do....

They even made a T-shirt to welcome him home.

Not enough proof for Tim.

In fairness, there's little, if any, proof in that paragraph that he is/was a deserter.

The CNN article, however, had a bunch of quotes about him. Its all pretty circumstantial, but there does seem to be a lot of people who were there and are convinced he deserted.

Convinced? Do you really believe he was taken hostage while in the latrine? Or lagging behind on patrol when there was no patrol that evening. Seriously?

I'm not 100% convinced he was a deserter, but I'd certainly like to hear more about the situation (including his current explanation). It doesn't look good for him. What's the normal penalty for desertion during wartime? Is it greater than 5 years?

That said, I'm still glad they got him back, don't have a problem with prisoner exchanges, am pissed at Obama for breaking his vow to close Guantanamo, and didn't agree with a continued presence long after we should have left Afghanistan.

 

[timschochet]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

 

[timschochet]

I thought the Roman Polanski thread was the apex of tim's work around here, but I was obviously underestimating his abilities.

Really? Did you read what Da Guru wrote? And I'm the problem? Expected more from you.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

 

[timschochet]

If he deserted he deserves to be prosecuted for that, now that he's back. But even if he deserted he was still held hostage, an American held hostage and I'm glad we rescued him. (Unless you're Jules Winnifield and think he defected- what nonsense.)

As for the release of people, this was NOT a 5 for 1 exchange. This is was part of a larger deal that we've been working on for some time in order to bring about negotiations between the Taliban and the Karzai government. The release of this American was only a small part of that larger deal, which apparently is quite complex.

I hope so. 5-1 seems like a steep price to pay. Obama could have negotiated and jewed them down to a 2-1 type deal.

Did you think this was funny when you wrote it out? Provocative? What? What was your aim here?

 

[Bojang0301]

Congress was too busy telling the Redskins to change their names rather than focus on any other important thing in the US.

 

[timschochet]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

 

[Hang 10]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

How would you characterize the following:

The Afghan president is angry at being kept in the dark over a deal to free five Taliban leaders in exchange for a captured U.S. soldier, and accuses Washington of failing to back a peace plan for the war-torn country, a senior source said on Monday.

Does that sound like he was included on the deal?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Per Newsweek, which states Karzai himself as the source.

http://www.newsweek.com/president-hamid-karzai-reportedly-angry-over-prisoner-deal-252968

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

The official close to the palace also said Karzai was worried about further deals being cut without his knowledge.

"It indicates that other deals could be negotiated behind the president's back," he said.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If he deserted he deserves to be prosecuted for that, now that he's back. But even if he deserted he was still held hostage, an American held hostage and I'm glad we rescued him. (Unless you're Jules Winnifield and think he defected- what nonsense.)

As for the release of people, this was NOT a 5 for 1 exchange. This is was part of a larger deal that we've been working on for some time in order to bring about negotiations between the Taliban and the Karzai government. The release of this American was only a small part of that larger deal, which apparently is quite complex.

Prove this please.

Per Wiki:

For months, U.S. negotiators sought to arrange the transfer of five Taliban detainees held at Guantanamo Bay detention camp to the Gulf state of Qatar. The transfer was intended as one of a series of confidence-building measures designed to open the door to political talks between the Taliban and Afghan President Hamid Karzai's government.[50] That move – at the center of U.S. strategy for ending the long, costly conflict in Afghanistan – was supposed to lead directly to Bowe's release. The Taliban has consistently called for the United States to release those held at Guantanamo Bay in exchange for freeing Western prisoners. But the Guantanamo transfer proposal ground to a halt when the Taliban rejected U.S. conditions designed to ensure transferred Taliban would not slip away and re-emerge as military leaders.[51] Ultimately, the Obama administration agreed to the prisoner exchange allowing Bergdahl to be released on May 31, 2014.[52]

Tim. Right here and now. DId you edit any of this post on Wiki?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

It should be our policy to never negotiate with Islamic fundamentalist....These people can't be trusted....It wouldn't surprise me to see this Bergdahl guy end up killing a bunch of Americans (Fort Hood Style) while the 5 detainees we released re-join the fight.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

Read this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/karzai-soldier-release-swap-deal-violates-u-s-afghan-agreement-n120061

And then, please, shut the hell up. You're ruining this thread as you did the NSA thread. You're so off base in here it truly makes me question your patriotism.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

Read this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/karzai-soldier-release-swap-deal-violates-u-s-afghan-agreement-n120061

And then, please. ####. You're ruining this thread as you did the NSA thread. You're so off base in here it truly makes me question your patriotism.

Patriotism? Tim is Taliban.

 

[timschochet]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

THIS is your response????

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the another version of President Obama; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Fixed

 

[timschochet]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

Read this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/karzai-soldier-release-swap-deal-violates-u-s-afghan-agreement-n120061

And then, please, shut the hell up. You're ruining this thread as you did the NSA thread. You're so off base in here it truly makes me question your patriotism.

Strike, frankly I'm sick and tired of you telling me to shut the hell up. You're not a moderator. You don't own this forum. And I don't care if you question my patriotism or not; what's important is that I don't question it.

This negotiation was apparently the culmination of talks that have been going on for years. Karzai may not like it, but there is NO WAY he did not know about it. As for his whining, #### him. If he whines too much we can get rid of him tomorrow and install another puppet.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

Read this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/karzai-soldier-release-swap-deal-violates-u-s-afghan-agreement-n120061

And then, please, shut the hell up. You're ruining this thread as you did the NSA thread. You're so off base in here it truly makes me question your patriotism.

Strike, frankly I'm sick and tired of you telling me to shut the hell up. You're not a moderator. You don't own this forum. And I don't care if you question my patriotism or not; what's important is that I don't question it.

This negotiation was apparently the culmination of talks that have been going on for years. Karzai may not like it, but there is NO WAY he did not know about it. As for his whining, #### him. If he whines too much we can get rid of him tomorrow and install another puppet.

Then exaplain why the Taliban says they have no desire to join the peace talks.

Karzai's not joining peace talks and neither is the Taliban, apparenly the US did not include either party to the peace talks in this little scheme.

And why the hell should the Taliban negotiate ANYTHING when the US is leaving soon. They just got their Top 5 most wanted leaders back and they're holding all the cards.

The article you posted was from 2012, when at least we still held a little leverage. That's gone now.

 

[shader]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

You are well-known for stating this over and over. As such, it doesn't allow for you to see objectively when it comes to his foreign policy.

 

[timschochet]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

You need to stop listening so much to what these crazies are saying and pay attention to what the bottom line goals are for us. To put it simply:

1. We have to leave Afghanistan, and soon.

2. We need to prevent the Taliban from taking control of the entire country once we leave, so we don't have to go back.

3. Most important of all, we need to prevent Islamist forces sympathetic to the Taliban from gaining the upper hand politically in Pakistan, LONG TERM.

If you understand that these goals are what's really important, ESPECIALLY #3, then you can see this all as a chess match for us- a modern version of the "Great Game" that Britain played in the 19th century in the same region. What you're seeing here is small moves. I happen to think they are good small moves, really the only moves we can make at this time, but we won't know the long term results for some time.

 

[fantasycurse42]

IDK how anyone sees this as a good deal... The absolute only way this is a good deal is if we implanted these jerkoffs with some sort of device that they are unaware is implanted - If so, kudos, otherwise this is terrible!

If this guy really cost soldiers their life, I have no issue with him being charged... That would really be the icing on the cake - We give up 5 key terror suspects for one bad soldier who is then jailed.

 

[StrikeS2k]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

Tim, it's been established above that Karzai was not include in this deal.

Established by whom? You? Andrew McCarthy? Strikes2K? Are you guys visiting the State Department?

Tim,

Read this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/karzai-soldier-release-swap-deal-violates-u-s-afghan-agreement-n120061

And then, please, shut the hell up. You're ruining this thread as you did the NSA thread. You're so off base in here it truly makes me question your patriotism.

Strike, frankly I'm sick and tired of you telling me to shut the hell up. You're not a moderator. You don't own this forum. And I don't care if you question my patriotism or not; what's important is that I don't question it.

This negotiation was apparently the culmination of talks that have been going on for years. Karzai may not like it, but there is NO WAY he did not know about it. As for his whining, #### him. If he whines too much we can get rid of him tomorrow and install another puppet.

Blah Blah Blah. You ask for proof about ANYTHING. You have nothing to disprove Karzai's statement. Your contention that he is lieing is not compelling. As usual, you form your worldview and try to frame the "facts" to fit it. Prove he's lieing. Otherwise, much like your support of Obama who has been known to lie himself a bit, you have nothing.

And you still haven't responded to my question about you generalizing the way you interpreted one person's statement to your worldview, and generalizing that to be some type of general consensus of the thread. I get sick of you pulling crap like that. Don't mischaracterize what is said in a thread to support your stupid arguments.

You're screwing up another thread, I hope you're happy.

Hey, here's a good thought exercise for you. Who is the bigger "hero", This guy or Snowden? You should start a poll.

 

[shader]

If these 5 guys somehow plot a major terror attack, it's the end of Obama's legacy. He'll never recover.

 

[timschochet]

So what we have here is a complicated diplomatic deal, the type that the Obama administration has performed again and again in this region and for which I give them great credit- he is probably the best foreign policy President in my lifetime. And as part of that deal, an American hostage is going to be released, which is a great victory for us- even though from what I'm reading, it's essentially an added bonus. The real key was getting negotiations between Karzai and the Taliban- central to our being able to leave Afghanistan. Karzai, who is a corrupt thug (but OUR corrupt thug) doesn't like it much, apparently, but we have to do this.

You are well-known for stating this over and over. As such, it doesn't allow for you to see objectively when it comes to his foreign policy.

Of course it's a subjective POV. But it's not like I started out with it and then seek to defend it by defending everything he does. This particular deal, among others, helps to confirm my conviction.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

You need to stop listening so much to what these crazies are saying and pay attention to what the bottom line goals are for us. To put it simply:

1. We have to leave Afghanistan, and soon.

2. We need to prevent the Taliban from taking control of the entire country once we leave, so we don't have to go back.

3. Most important of all, we need to prevent Islamist forces sympathetic to the Taliban from gaining the upper hand politically in Pakistan, LONG TERM.

If you understand that these goals are what's really important, ESPECIALLY #3, then you can see this all as a chess match for us- a modern version of the "Great Game" that Britain played in the 19th century in the same region. What you're seeing here is small moves. I happen to think they are good small moves, really the only moves we can make at this time, but we won't know the long term results for some time.

I posted this already, but it already answers your questions:

Then explain why the Taliban says they have no desire to join the peace talks.

Karzai's not joining peace talks and neither is the Taliban, apparenly the US did not include either party to the peace talks in this little scheme.

And why the hell should the Taliban negotiate ANYTHING when the US is leaving soon. They just got their Top 5 most wanted leaders back and they're holding all the cards.

The article you posted was from 2012, when at least we still held a little leverage. That's gone now.

The Great Game was played by some of the greatest foreign policy minds of all time. There is not one single of them who would have waited two years until after their leverage had disappeared to simply hand over assets that would help lead directly to Nos. 2 & 3 actually taking place.

The AQ & Taliban forces just got a huge morale boost; our allies in AFG are running for cover.

 

[Kal El]

Tim, just stop. This deal was decent at best, and with more information coming out constantly, it's starting to look like we got screwed on this trade. Obama is far from the best foreign policy president, in fact, I'd put him near the bottom of the list. The president has done next to nothing to strengthen the US's position, and in fact has appeared to weaken it in several instances. You've been shown facts, however circumstantial, surrounding this person's apparent departure and subsequent loss of life in the attempts to find him. Now I don't know this man from Adam, but as I understand it, soldiers are not stupid people, otherwise they don't survive. There are several credible sources saying this man wanted to meet with Taliban, openly discussed desertion/ going AWOL, and was seen acting strangely around the time he disappeared. Now you can keep fighting, or you can see that maybe there's something to the soldiers' accounts of this person.

 

[HellToupee]

another tim thread

 

[timschochet]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

You need to stop listening so much to what these crazies are saying and pay attention to what the bottom line goals are for us. To put it simply:

1. We have to leave Afghanistan, and soon.

2. We need to prevent the Taliban from taking control of the entire country once we leave, so we don't have to go back.

3. Most important of all, we need to prevent Islamist forces sympathetic to the Taliban from gaining the upper hand politically in Pakistan, LONG TERM.

If you understand that these goals are what's really important, ESPECIALLY #3, then you can see this all as a chess match for us- a modern version of the "Great Game" that Britain played in the 19th century in the same region. What you're seeing here is small moves. I happen to think they are good small moves, really the only moves we can make at this time, but we won't know the long term results for some time.

I posted this already, but it already answers your questions:

Then explain why the Taliban says they have no desire to join the peace talks.

Karzai's not joining peace talks and neither is the Taliban, apparenly the US did not include either party to the peace talks in this little scheme.

And why the hell should the Taliban negotiate ANYTHING when the US is leaving soon. They just got their Top 5 most wanted leaders back and they're holding all the cards.

The article you posted was from 2012, when at least we still held a little leverage. That's gone now.

The Great Game was played by some of the greatest foreign policy minds of all time. There is not one single of them who would have waited two years until after their leverage had disappeared to simply hand over assets that would help lead directly to Nos. 2 & 3 actually taking place.

The AQ & Taliban forces just got a huge morale boost; our allies in AFG are running for cover.

The Taliban is holding all the cards. Yeah, sure, right. Thanks to Obama's military surge, their infrastructure has almost been completely destroyed. They are a shell of the group they once were. The only cards they hold are millions of Muslims sympathetic to Islamism who MIGHT be upset if we completely destroy the Taliban- which is the main reason we haven't done it. These 5 guys who have been rotting in prison aren't going to add anything to the Taliban strength. We've eliminated that strength.

 

[Hang 10]

IDK how anyone sees this as a good deal... The absolute only way this is a good deal is if we implanted these jerkoffs with some sort of device that they are unaware is implanted - If so, kudos, otherwise this is terrible!

If this guy really cost soldiers their life, I have no issue with him being charged... That would really be the icing on the cake - We give up 5 key terror suspects for one bad soldier who is then jailed.

Should be some room for him at Gitmo.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, just stop. This deal was decent at best, and with more information coming out constantly, it's starting to look like we got screwed on this trade. Obama is far from the best foreign policy president, in fact, I'd put him near the bottom of the list. The president has done next to nothing to strengthen the US's position, and in fact has appeared to weaken it in several instances. You've been shown facts, however circumstantial, surrounding this person's apparent departure and subsequent loss of life in the attempts to find him. Now I don't know this man from Adam, but as I understand it, soldiers are not stupid people, otherwise they don't survive. There are several credible sources saying this man wanted to meet with Taliban, openly discussed desertion/ going AWOL, and was seen acting strangely around the time he disappeared. Now you can keep fighting, or you can see that maybe there's something to the soldiers' accounts of this person.

Ka El, maybe it's all true. Maybe this dude was a deserter and fond of the Taliban, and maybe this deal was a horrible one for us and just makes us weaker. Maybe.

But all of this is based on conjecture, and its coming from the same sources who have been critical of Obama for just about every foreign policy decision and who have been wrong about most of that criticism. I don't believe the Taliban is a danger to us any longer. What is dangerous to us are Pakistanis who might be sympathetic to the Taliban. That's what we have to deal with.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

You need to stop listening so much to what these crazies are saying and pay attention to what the bottom line goals are for us. To put it simply:

1. We have to leave Afghanistan, and soon.

2. We need to prevent the Taliban from taking control of the entire country once we leave, so we don't have to go back.

3. Most important of all, we need to prevent Islamist forces sympathetic to the Taliban from gaining the upper hand politically in Pakistan, LONG TERM.

If you understand that these goals are what's really important, ESPECIALLY #3, then you can see this all as a chess match for us- a modern version of the "Great Game" that Britain played in the 19th century in the same region. What you're seeing here is small moves. I happen to think they are good small moves, really the only moves we can make at this time, but we won't know the long term results for some time.

I posted this already, but it already answers your questions:

Then explain why the Taliban says they have no desire to join the peace talks.

Karzai's not joining peace talks and neither is the Taliban, apparenly the US did not include either party to the peace talks in this little scheme.

And why the hell should the Taliban negotiate ANYTHING when the US is leaving soon. They just got their Top 5 most wanted leaders back and they're holding all the cards.

The article you posted was from 2012, when at least we still held a little leverage. That's gone now.

The Great Game was played by some of the greatest foreign policy minds of all time. There is not one single of them who would have waited two years until after their leverage had disappeared to simply hand over assets that would help lead directly to Nos. 2 & 3 actually taking place.

The AQ & Taliban forces just got a huge morale boost; our allies in AFG are running for cover.

The Taliban is holding all the cards. Yeah, sure, right. Thanks to Obama's military surge, their infrastructure has almost been completely destroyed. They are a shell of the group they once were. The only cards they hold are millions of Muslims sympathetic to Islamism who MIGHT be upset if we completely destroy the Taliban- which is the main reason we haven't done it. These 5 guys who have been rotting in prison aren't going to add anything to the Taliban strength. We've eliminated that strength.

So then why do you think Obama wants Karzai to negotiate with them if they are so weak?

If they're so whipped, why don't we either finish them off or let Karzai and his successor do it? And why make the trade at all to such a decimated group?

 

[Billy Bats]

Said Bergdahl's former squad leader, Greg Leatherman: "I'm pleased to see him returned safely. From experience, I hope that he receives adequate reintegration counseling. I believe that an investigation should take place as soon as health care professionals deem him fit to endure one."

"It was unbelievable," the soldier said. "All because of the selfish act of one person. The amount of animosity (toward him) is nothing like you've ever seen before."

http://us.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html?c=&page=4

 

[igbomb]

Tim, not sure why you don't just walk away from this thread. No goodbyes or explanation or anything. You're not debating anyone, just getting insulted.

 

[Billy Bats]

Sorry guys, but Karzai has consistently lied to the news media, just as he has lied to his own people, just as he has lied to us. He's the 21st century version of President Diem; he's our thug, we're stuck with him only because the other dudes are far worse. Maybe he didn't know about the deal, though I find that extremely doubtful, because it's been under negotiations for months now. More likely, he didn't know about Obama's final decision process to execute it, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone.

Apparently the Taliban isn't on board either.

"It won't help the peace process in any way, because we don't believe in the peace process," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said on Sunday.

You need to stop listening so much to what these crazies are saying and pay attention to what the bottom line goals are for us. To put it simply:1. We have to leave Afghanistan, and soon.

2. We need to prevent the Taliban from taking control of the entire country once we leave, so we don't have to go back.

3. Most important of all, we need to prevent Islamist forces sympathetic to the Taliban from gaining the upper hand politically in Pakistan, LONG TERM.

If you understand that these goals are what's really important, ESPECIALLY #3, then you can see this all as a chess match for us- a modern version of the "Great Game" that Britain played in the 19th century in the same region. What you're seeing here is small moves. I happen to think they are good small moves, really the only moves we can make at this time, but we won't know the long term results for some time.

I posted this already, but it already answers your questions:

Then explain why the Taliban says they have no desire to join the peace talks.

Karzai's not joining peace talks and neither is the Taliban, apparenly the US did not include either party to the peace talks in this little scheme.

And why the hell should the Taliban negotiate ANYTHING when the US is leaving soon. They just got their Top 5 most wanted leaders back and they're holding all the cards.

The article you posted was from 2012, when at least we still held a little leverage. That's gone now.

The Great Game was played by some of the greatest foreign policy minds of all time. There is not one single of them who would have waited two years until after their leverage had disappeared to simply hand over assets that would help lead directly to Nos. 2 & 3 actually taking place.

The AQ & Taliban forces just got a huge morale boost; our allies in AFG are running for cover.

The Taliban is holding all the cards. Yeah, sure, right. Thanks to Obama's military surge, their infrastructure has almost been completely destroyed. They are a shell of the group they once were. The only cards they hold are millions of Muslims sympathetic to Islamism who MIGHT be upset if we completely destroy the Taliban- which is the main reason we haven't done it. These 5 guys who have been rotting in prison aren't going to add anything to the Taliban strength. We've eliminated that strength.

Yea they'll probably have to go work at CVS stocking shelves since they'll have nothing else to do.

 

[Kal El]

Tim, just stop. This deal was decent at best, and with more information coming out constantly, it's starting to look like we got screwed on this trade. Obama is far from the best foreign policy president, in fact, I'd put him near the bottom of the list. The president has done next to nothing to strengthen the US's position, and in fact has appeared to weaken it in several instances. You've been shown facts, however circumstantial, surrounding this person's apparent departure and subsequent loss of life in the attempts to find him. Now I don't know this man from Adam, but as I understand it, soldiers are not stupid people, otherwise they don't survive. There are several credible sources saying this man wanted to meet with Taliban, openly discussed desertion/ going AWOL, and was seen acting strangely around the time he disappeared. Now you can keep fighting, or you can see that maybe there's something to the soldiers' accounts of this person.

Ka El, maybe it's all true. Maybe this dude was a deserter and fond of the Taliban, and maybe this deal was a horrible one for us and just makes us weaker. Maybe.But all of this is based on conjecture, and its coming from the same sources who have been critical of Obama for just about every foreign policy decision and who have been wrong about most of that criticism. I don't believe the Taliban is a danger to us any longer. What is dangerous to us are Pakistanis who might be sympathetic to the Taliban. That's what we have to deal with.

That's probably because a lot of his foreign policy decisions haven't been very good. The Taliban may still be a danger to us, and it might not be, but it's still a very real problem in the region there, and our trade quite probably made their lives a lot harder.