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Another killing at the hands of the Police (4 Viewers)

The Commish said:
What protests are you referring to when you make statements like this?
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Some right wing protests from the past decade+ off the top of my head:

  • Unite the Right in Charlottesville 
  • re-open (COVID)
  • Cliven Bundy
  • 2nd amendment rallies
There's a bunch of rallies, but I'm not sure if these qualify as protests or not:

  • Tea party
  • MAGA
 
moleculo said:
Some right wing protests from the past decade+ off the top of my head:

  • Unite the Right in Charlottesville 
  • re-open (COVID)
  • Cliven Bundy
  • 2nd amendment rallies
There's a bunch of rallies, but I'm not sure if these qualify as protests or not:

  • Tea party
  • MAGA
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And have many outside of the Unite the Right rally been highly categorized by posters or media as white nationalist protests/rallies?

Mentioning that there are elements among them is not categorizing the whole thing as white nationalist.

 
jon_mx said:
See how ridiculous the tactic is.  Trump is just doing exactly what the media has been doing for decades.  I am glad we can agree how ridiculous it is.  
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I think all of the focus on the looters compared to the protestors is ridiculous. So yes - on that we do agree.

 
bigbottom said:
Seriously, we’d rather bicker about curfews than make a single comment on this?  Not trying to shut down debate, and lord knows that I’m as guilty of arguing about minutiae as anyone, but this is the type of thing that will actually help us heal and get to a better place in this country. 
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I think that the more areas we can find and focus on where we have commonalities the better. In the end, we all have much more in common with each other than we do differences. We need to focus on and elevate those things while appreciating the diversity and things that make us different as well.

 
Sweet J said:
Son of a #####. I just dropped my daughter off to go into protest with a friend.  God dammit. Looks like I'm going to have to take ANOTHER day off of work to chaperone (for the record, her friend's dad will be with them; but . . . she's my baby girl, so would feel more comfortable being there).
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Update - the friend's dad dropped them off in dc because of course. ffffffuuuuuck.

 
mcintyre1 said:
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has a press conference coming soon for details on any potential additional charges against the other 3 officers involved in George Floyd's death. No rumors yet on whether there will or won't be more charges.
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I think Chauvin gets upped to 2nd degree murder and the officer(s?) that helped hold Floyd down get 3rd degree. The others voluntary manslaughter. Perhaps the cop who said "maybe we should roll him over" gets something less. 

 
jon_mx said:
See how ridiculous the tactic is.  Trump is just doing exactly what the media has been doing for decades.  I am glad we can agree how ridiculous it is.  
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Aren't you the guy that said Reagan's "states rights" speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi had nothing to do with race or racism? Sorry, but that's extremism and to call it so isn't ridiculous.

Maybe you should take a look at what the Republican Party has been doing for decades instead of harping on the media when they stumble on the truth every so often. Or should I stop reading about the systemic racism in the Democratic Party so we can all go back to the fairy tale that it was all about fiscal policy?

 
I'd like to hear more about the first autopsy and the ruling of heart disease and possible chemical intoxication as the cause of death (that came out with the original charges) and the difference between that and the two since that found that it was homicide by asphyxiation. That seems remarkably fishy to me and any Democrats involved should go down just as hard.

 
tonydead said:
:lol:   No it wasn't.  It was about people being outraged with people gathering, unless it is to riot, then it's ok.  I didn't bring up the curfew strawman.  
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Well, to be fair I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about given your one liners. The dialogue I'm involved with is about curfews. You said peaceful protestors were complicit with anarchists, and should go home. I thought the response to your post posed an interesting analogy asking how you would feel about covid carriers/spreaders being interspersed with non-carriers in violation of a possible future covid curfew... would you feel that curfew should be policed in a similarly forceful manner? Someone else then posted that was not analogous, as societal harm is resulting from these protests - but it's actually no different for the covid scenario posed, other than the societal harm is not as visible/tangible/immediate. 

I thought it was an interesting question, but not interesting enough to get further into a back/forth on it. It's a fair/unanswered question... life goes on. 

 
huthut said:
For a completely contrarian view, it feels like the police are more the rioters than 99.99% of the protesters. They are rioting with disproportionate aggression as a way to "punish" those that are not respecting their authority. Every time you see a news crew targeted or someone just standing there doing nothing get shot with a rubber bullet or tear gas canister it is angry flailing that people are not calling them sir and averting their eyes in deference. They are 3 year olds throwing a tantrum, only with weapons and a history of getting their way from throwing tantrums in the past. 
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It sure seems this way in Portland and also just looking at the number of journalists that have been targeted. I think it is close to 200 incidents now.

 
Stuart_Little said:
mcintyre1 said:
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has a press conference coming soon for details on any potential additional charges against the other 3 officers involved in George Floyd's death. No rumors yet on whether there will or won't be more charges.
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I think Chauvin gets upped to 2nd degree murder and the officer(s?) that helped hold Floyd down get 3rd degree. The others voluntary manslaughter. Perhaps the cop who said "maybe we should roll him over" gets something less. 
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One of the attorneys for Floyd's family recently said he believes more charges are coming, before the body is laid to rest. Not sure if he was told that or if that was his assumption. Now a press conference is scheduled. They couldn't possibly hold one now to announce no further charges, could they?

:scared:

 
urbanhack said:
It sure seems this way in Portland and also just looking at the number of journalists that have been targeted. I think it is close to 200 incidents now.
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And you see things like the Asheville cops destroying water and medical supplies set out for protestors. I mean  - what kind of people do that?

 
Stuart_Little said:
Aren't you the guy that said Reagan's "states rights" speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi had nothing to do with race or racism? Sorry, but that's extremism and to call it so isn't ridiculous.

Maybe you should take a look at what the Republican Party has been doing for decades instead of harping on the media when they stumble on the truth every so often. Or should I stop reading about the systemic racism in the Democratic Party so we can all go back to the fairy tale that it was all about fiscal policy?
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Lol...perfect example of attacking and discrediting.  The tactic is so thoroughly engrained in the left's dna, it is second nature.  Impossible ti advance any discussion.  

 
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Galileo said:
2nd degree for Chauvin  and other 3 to be charged as well according to CNN reporting of a Klobuchar tweet

ETA: https://twitter.com/amyklobuchar/status/1268240529034227713
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Star Tribune article citing "multiple law enforcement sources familiar with the case"

Attorney General Keith Ellison plans to elevate charges against the former Minneapolis police officer who knelt on George Floyd’s neck while adding charges of aiding and abetting murder against the other three officers at the scene, according to multiple law enforcement sources familiar with the case.

Ellison is expected to provide an update this afternoon on the state’s investigation into Floyd’s death. According to sources, former officer Derek Chauvin, recorded on video kneeling on Floyd’s neck as he begged for air on May 25, will now be charged with second-degree murder.

The other three officers at the scene — Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng and Thomas Lane — will also be charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder, according to the sources, who spoke on conditions of anonymity. Chauvin was arrested last Friday and charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter.

Thao was recorded watching as Chauvin continued to press on Floyd’s neck with his knee. Kueng was one of the first officers on the scene and helped pin Floyd down. Lane was detailed in earlier charges as pointing a gun at Floyd before handcuffing, and later asked whether officers should roll Floyd on his side as he was restrained.

The charges come just days after Gov. Tim Walz asked Ellison to take over the prosecution, which until Sunday had been led by the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office.
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whoknew said:
Is there any explanation for why these alleged government security forces have removed their badges, insignia, name plates, etc. and will not identify themselves? Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Link
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This is banana republic level ####.

Edit: In all seriousness, you should be able to stroll right past those guys and beat the hell out of any of them if they try to stop you.  They should be considered just random dudes on the street if they don't clearly identify themselves as LE.

 
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I know many/most can't stand Bill Simmons, but his podcast with DeRay Mckesson from Campaign Zero is pretty interesting. Their research lead to the 8 can't wait list of 8 policies that their research says decreases police violence by 72% (if all 8 are implemented).

The policies seem mostly intuitive, but apparently many departments don't have them as policy and very few have all 8.

A few things that surprised me as not part of the 8. More black police officers. Apparently it only begins to help when the percentage is above 35%, which he said isn't feasible in a lot of places.  Body cams, while great, for some reason aren't as effective as the other policies. Community policing he said, while it's good for morale and a great thing, they didn't find much evidence of it decreasing police violence.

 
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pollardsvision said:
I know many/most can't stand Bill Simmons, but his podcast with DeRay Mckesson from Campaign Zero is pretty interesting. Their research lead to the 8 can't wait list of 8 policies that their research says decreases police violence by 72% (if all 8 are implemented).

The policies don't seem mostly intuitive, but apparently many departments don't have them as policy and very few have all 8.

A few things that surprised me as not part of the 8. More black police officers. Apparently it only begins to help when the percentage is above 35%, which he said isn't feasible in a lot of places.  Body cams, while great, for some reason aren't as effective as the other policies. Community policing he said, while it's good for morale and a great thing, they didn't find much evidence of it decreasing police violence.
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The one thing I disagreed with him was when he said community policing was racist. That didn't even make any sense. Community policing should happen everywhere - regardless of location, demographics, etc.

ETA: I don't want that to take away from what Campaign Zero is doing. Really interesting stuff.

 
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pollardsvision said:
I know many/most can't stand Bill Simmons, but his podcast with DeRay Mckesson from Campaign Zero is pretty interesting. Their research lead to the 8 can't wait list of 8 policies that their research says decreases police violence by 72% (if all 8 are implemented).

The policies seem mostly intuitive, but apparently many departments don't have them as policy and very few have all 8.

A few things that surprised me as not part of the 8. More black police officers. Apparently it only begins to help when the percentage is above 35%, which he said isn't feasible in a lot of places.  Body cams, while great, for some reason aren't as effective as the other policies. Community policing he said, while it's good for morale and a great thing, they didn't find much evidence of it decreasing police violence.
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I'm a fan of Campaign Zero and data-based policy/discussions in general (who wouldn't be, right? Much of the data is intentionally made hard or impossible to find, though). Campaign Zero is listed on this excellent Obama.org page full of resources to (as they put it) get informed, take action, get engaged, and stand together. It also has a link to his town hall at 5 pm EST.

 
mcintyre1 said:
One takeaway people should have from the last ~6 years of BLM protesting is that, to some, there will never be an acceptable form of protest. Not kneeling during an anthem, not marching down the streets with signs and chants, not making an encampment outside a police precinct that killed someone, not blocking freeways with peaceful assembly. All have been decried as "divisive" etc. It's really saddening that the thing that seems to have finally, maybe turned a corner toward drastic responses to legitimate grievances (at least in Twin Cities) is violence, looting, and burning. 
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZTCKyCXYAEzLYk?format=jpg&name=medium

 
Da Guru said:
A Detroit pastor was on TV last night saying the police need to change their style but also called on the communities to help the police change by stop committing crimes. Stop robbing stores and assaulting  people so hopefully we don`t need to even call the police.  Lets all work together to make our streets safer.  People were nodding and clapping so I guess it was well received.
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Do you have a link to this?

 
Stuart_Little said:
I'd like to hear more about the first autopsy and the ruling of heart disease and possible chemical intoxication as the cause of death (that came out with the original charges) and the difference between that and the two since that found that it was homicide by asphyxiation. That seems remarkably fishy to me and any Democrats involved should go down just as hard.
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The first report was based off of the preliminary assessment which likely only included an initial physical exam and not a more thorough exam of organs, tox screen, etc. It was noted as being the preliminary exam at the time. I don’t remember the exact wording, but basically it was misread by most because it didn’t say that we wasn’t strangled, it was specific and indicated that he didn’t die because of a crushed windpipe. The further investigation showed that he was indeed asphyxiated by having body weight placed on him and cutting off oxygen, but it just wasn’t a crushed windpipe. 

Why the preliminary report was released the way it was without an explanation behind it, I don’t know.

 
jon_mx said:
Lol...perfect example of attacking and discrediting.  The tactic is so thoroughly engrained in the left's dna, it is second nature.  Impossible ti advance any discussion.  
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I'm asking questions which apparently you can't answer. Trumpian whining about being attacked (by questions!) makes perfect sense. You were discredited a long time ago but it's good to see you admit it so it's all out in the open for everyone to see. 

Yes, discussions are impossible when people post in bad faith which you have done dozens if not hundreds of times. Not opinion. Purposefully edited quotes and intentionally misleading posts meant to distort, pollute and derail legitimate discussion. I won't clutter up this thread, but if you want me to start posting them I am happy to do so elsewhere. I invite you to take a gander at my posting history and point out any instances where you feel I've done the same. I promise I won't cry about being persecuted and will address every one.

This Fox News/4chan game of never-ending deflections and victimology has got to end. The country has suffered enough. We've got the toughest challenge we've ever had as a country coming up and we'll never make it otherwise. At least not in a form any of us would want to live in or have future generations inherit.

 
Stuart_Little said:
The country (and the world) are uniting against Donald Trump and his whiny, beta-man attempts at authoritarianism. There were more protests and less looting yesterday than any day yet, and they'll be bigger yet today. The only way anything meaningful gets done is when we keep up the pressure. Don't forget that the 1968 Civil Rights Act came after a whole summer of protests.

Also don't forget that the "conservatives" on the Supreme Court gutted the 1965 Voting Rights Act a few years ago so the minority vote could be legally suppressed once again.

Our work is not done. Not by a long shot.
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Understood. Would you agree that voting en masse in 150 days would be the effective way to change then? Not to belittle the protests, but just thinking of how to actually achieve an outcome. The outcome for the bolded is not that hard to see how to achieve, there's already a mechanism in place to vote out a President. Frankly we don't need mass nationwide protests for that. Voter turnout is what's needed for that.

 
bigbottom said:
bigbottom said:
Here’s the first part:

https://youtu.be/So_PC3rHrXA

The video at this link shows part of the prayer in response:

https://www.click2houston.com/video/news/2020/06/01/white-people-kneel-ask-forgiveness-from-the-black-community-in-third-ward-pt-2-/
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Seriously, we’d rather bicker about curfews than make a single comment on this?  Not trying to shut down debate, and lord knows that I’m as guilty of arguing about minutiae as anyone, but this is the type of thing that will actually help us heal and get to a better place in this country. 
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Not sure how I missed it, but that was beautiful.  Thanks for sharing.

 
SoBeDad said:
Good timing: I wanted him to know just how welcome he is in West Virginia,” Justice said of Trump. “And any president, you know, we should absolutely welcome all but — maybe not Barack Obama. Nevertheless, we’ll welcome any president.

How would Obama be different from the rest of the living presidents?
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Maybe I’m missing something here but this seems to be much ado about nothing. I can totally imagine Cuomo or Newsome joking about not inviting Trump to something in their state. 

 
huthut said:
For a completely contrarian view, it feels like the police are more the rioters than 99.99% of the protesters. They are rioting with disproportionate aggression as a way to "punish" those that are not respecting their authority. Every time you see a news crew targeted or someone just standing there doing nothing get shot with a rubber bullet or tear gas canister it is angry flailing that people are not calling them sir and averting their eyes in deference. They are 3 year olds throwing a tantrum, only with weapons and a history of getting their way from throwing tantrums in the past. 
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I saw the escalation firsthand in Nashville.

  1. Crowd marches. Lots of shouting.
  2. Police show up. Booing, water bottles (nothing frozen, etc), it all dies down.
  3. Riot gear shows up. Yeah, that made the crowd more agitated. Eventually it got to a simmering of the worst of Step 2.
  4. And THEN the mounted police showed up. The mood turned. I got out of there.
 
facook said:
You're fighting a good fight bb, but it's not worth your effort.  This is the only thread I think I've ever come to the PSF expressly to see.  I stay out of this forum 99.99% of the time, because it's such cesspool.  I thought maybe I'd get thoughtful perspective on the events of the last week.  I guess I did, a tiny bit.  Mostly I regret the time I wasted reading all of this trolling, arguing, and bickering.  Take care, I'm out.
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@mcintyre1 has been doing the lord's work in here.  Sure there were 20 pages of arguing over tear gax vs pepper grenades, but there has been a lot of good information posted.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
Understood. Would you agree that voting en masse in 150 days would be the effective way to change then? Not to belittle the protests, but just thinking of how to actually achieve an outcome. The outcome for the bolded is not that hard to see how to achieve, there's already a mechanism in place to vote out a President. Frankly we don't need mass nationwide protests for that. Voter turnout is what's needed for that.
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I've given up trying to tell people this.  I hope they come to it naturally.  But a lot of people don't feel represented by either party right now

 
huthut said:
For a completely contrarian view, it feels like the police are more the rioters than 99.99% of the protesters. They are rioting with disproportionate aggression as a way to "punish" those that are not respecting their authority. Every time you see a news crew targeted or someone just standing there doing nothing get shot with a rubber bullet or tear gas canister it is angry flailing that people are not calling them sir and averting their eyes in deference. They are 3 year olds throwing a tantrum, only with weapons and a history of getting their way from throwing tantrums in the past. 
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Yea, most (not all) of what I've seen has been police using wildly over-aggressive tactics against peaceful protesters.  Even when the protesters aren't entirely peaceful I've never gotten the impression from watching the news coverage that the police actions have cooled things off.  It just stokes the flames.

 
The Commish said:
jon_mx said:
Biff84 said:
What protests are you talking about? If it’s Charlottesville, it most certainly was a white supremacist rally. If we’re talking the COVID protests, I don’t think anyone is talking them white supremacists but feel free to point me towards the people making that argument.
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It is a tactic that is commonly used in the media to seek out the most extremist person at a right-wing rally and try to characterize the whole group in those terms.  
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Doesn't answer the question....what protests have we seen the yield the behavior you are describing?  And when you say "we" in this forum, it reads as if you're talking about this forum.  I'd like to know who you're talking about or events you're talking about where this forum has behaved that way.....tia
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You're answering what you deem "trolling" and declairing how obtuse "the left" is to their behavior but not attempting to engage in any sort of meaningful questions.  It might help your cause a bit to clarify which events you've seen this forum's population behaving as you described above.

 
The Commish said:
You're answering what you deem "trolling" and declairing how obtuse "the left" is to their behavior but not attempting to engage in any sort of meaningful questions.  It might help your cause a bit to clarify which events you've seen this forum's population behaving as you described above.
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Lol...whatever dude.  The answer is all the time.   You are oblivious to it because you agree with the media's perspective.  The media excuses and covers for crappy behavior from the left.  The media had body bags ready when there was a second amendment rally in Virginia last year.  Turned out to be a peaceful rally.  The media/this forum is terrified of the right and think they are all racists.  Meanwhile they will rationalize and spin no matter how much violence is done in the name of liberal politics.  

 
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bigbottom said:
Maybe I’m missing something here but this seems to be much ado about nothing. I can totally imagine Cuomo or Newsome joking about not inviting Trump to something in their state. 
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In the middle of the largest protest of systemic racism, a governor jokes about not inviting the only black president. Tone deaf. 

He had to clarify his comments, and the mayor of Charleston said Obama would be welcome.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wchstv.com/amp/news/local/gov-justice-clarifies-comment-about-former-president-obama

 
jon_mx said:
One more laughing coward.  This place is going down the drain.  Nothing but mocking and nsme-calling.  Pathetic. 
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Let’s take a pause from arguing over whether the media treats white conservatives fairly (I’ll concede that they often do not) and focus on the issue of systemic racism and how we might be able to work together to heal the racial divide in this country. I am honestly interested in hearing your reaction/perspective on the video I posted earlier in this thread. I’ll link it again for your convenience. 
 

https://youtu.be/So_PC3rHrXA

 
jon_mx said:
One more laughing coward.  This place is going down the drain.  Nothing but mocking and nsme-calling.  Pathetic. 
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I hope your criticism is the same for this action for those on the right. Because there’s lots of laughing emoji reactions going around and it certainly isn’t only coming from one direction.    

 
jon_mx said:
Lol...whatever dude.  The answer is all the time.   You are oblivious to it because you agree with the media's perspective.  The media excuses and covers for crappy behavior from the left.  The media had body bags ready when there was a second amendment rally in Virginia last year.  Turned out to be a peaceful rally.  The media/this forum is terrified of the right and think they are all racists.  Meanwhile they will rationalize and spin no matter how much violence is done in the name of liberal politics.  
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But this is the problem...you keep saying all the time but can't bring up any specifics.  That seems awfully convenient.  And a complete generalization without anything to back it up.  All to bash the left.  Nobody is terrified of the right...nobody is saying or thinking they are all racists...that is a BS accusation to make Jon...don't complain about discourse as you do below and make those claims about people here.

jon_mx said:
One more laughing coward.  This place is going down the drain.  Nothing but mocking and nsme-calling.  Pathetic. 
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Then call that out all over jon...to think its just a few doing it to you ignores the rest of the problem. And I don't believe anyone has called you any names...yet you have claimed this forum thinks the right are racists and are scared of them.  Trashing people and the place on one hand, then complaining about discourse seems to be counter productive.

 
dkp993 said:
I hope your criticism is the same for this action for those on the right. Because there’s lots of laughing emoji reactions going around and it certainly isn’t only coming from one direction.    
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Id say it coming from about 3-4 on the right more often than anyone else.  And Im sure most could post 4 names and get the three Id be thinking of...

 
Great to see they upped the charges Chauvin, hope he gets everything coming to him. Don’t know enough about the other cops participation but if  deserving Good to see them held responsible as well. Coming down hard on the bad people is what will have an impact, not burning down churches and police stations. 

 
GoBirds said:
Great to see they upped the charges Chauvin, hope he gets everything coming to him. Don’t know enough about the other cops participation but if  deserving Good to see them held responsible as well. Coming down hard on the bad people is what will have an impact, not burning down churches and police stations. 
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You kind of skipped over the protesting there and went right to the looting. 

 
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