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Another school shooting sigh Edit - looks like more than school (1 Viewer)

I'm all ears.
When I say there are other uses for guns I do not mean that all of these uses are an absolute need.  Guns can be used for protection, for hunting and recreation.

On a separate note, what would be the qualifications for guns that get banned?  Muzzleloaders?  Air-soft, pellet and BB guns?

 
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When I say there are other uses for guns I do not mean that all of these uses are an absolute need.  Guns can be used for protection, for hunting and recreation.

On a separate note, what would be the qualifications for guns that get banned?  Muzzleloaders?  Air-soft, pellet and BB guns?
Anything designed to kill a human. 

 
I don't think that's specific enough.
I think when we get down to that level of discriminance, we've done enough to make a significant dent in the problem. If something is questionable as to whether or not it's designed to kill a human, then I would favor on allowing it. Again, I just want to make a huge dent in our existing huge problem. I don't think everyone killing is ever going to be solved, so I've got no desire to get stuck down in the details. 

 
Epic Problem said:
Is this where sbomono comes in and tells us that he could kill just as many paper deers in 10 minutes with his crossbow as he could with his Remington 783?
Never shot bow or cross bow?  Actually I have only shot an elk 1x.  Targets are good for me now.  Thanks for asking guy!  

 
I just love this line of thinking too.  

No need for discussion and possible improvements, just please leave so we can kill each other off... 
Right up there with the people telling professional athletes to leave the US if they don't like they way they're treated.

 
How close to home does it need to be to change my mind? 

My brother in law committed suicide by shooting himself in the head in front of his girlfriend. Is that close enough or does it have to be a mass shooting?

Yet, his brother is out deer hunting right now. I'm headed out tomorrow to deer hunt with my son. And his sister (my wife) just spent 2 hours at the range last Friday shooting with our kids. 

 
Its an incredibly stupid analogy yet he keeps going to it. We have to be north of a dozen times that he's done it now. Its really something to behold.
Not really. It's only because you have a closed mind to see that they both pertain to something that is not necessary, but cause death to innocent people. 

As someone mentioned upstream, 99% of the lawful gun owners are going to be punished for the 1% that are killers. By the same token, reports are that the number of people that drink and drive is a much higher than 1% of all those that drink.

Posters keep stating that guns are only created to kill people. And then say that 99% of the population is using them lawfully. If they are so deadly, then why isn't it the other way around?

 
Not really. It's only because you have a closed mind to see that they both pertain to something that is not necessary, but cause death to innocent people. 

As someone mentioned upstream, 99% of the lawful gun owners are going to be punished for the 1% that are killers. By the same token, reports are that the number of people that drink and drive is a much higher than 1% of all those that drink.

Posters keep stating that guns are only created to kill people. And then say that 99% of the population is using them lawfully. If they are so deadly, then why isn't it the other way around?
Let's stop pretending these are the same things.  It gets the discussion nowhere.  

Sure, there are a lot of things that aren't necessary to daily life that kill innocent people.  It doesn't mean they all should be treated equally when problem solving how to address the risks to the general population. 

 
Let's stop pretending these are the same things.  It gets the discussion nowhere.  

Sure, there are a lot of things that aren't necessary to daily life that kill innocent people.  It doesn't mean they all should be treated equally when problem solving how to address the risks to the general population. 
Right, but guns and alcohol are two things that a large portion of the population use without killing people. Yet people want to ban only one of them?

And please don't confuse my ongoing comparison that I am not for tighter gun regulations. I resort to this when the conversation turns to an outright ban of firearms. I think it's just as ridiculous. Especially when the same arguments of can be used for both. 

 
So it was illegal for him to buy the guns he used but it was perfectly legal for him to buy the kit and build them :loco:

"Hundreds of websites offer ghost gun kits ranging in price from $450 to $1,000 — and requiring absolutely no background checks."

 
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If you're correct, then that shows how much of it is simply done for sport. While retailers who service the sport would be affected, retail has experienced far bigger issues. And people who give up one sport likely pick up another, so some other retailers stand to gain. In the end, the economic impact is likely a wash.

As for the ecosystem, yes a loss of a link in the food chain results in changes to the ecosystem. But we're talking about a sport where many hunters had to get a license to hunt in order to limit the number of game they caught because their presence in the ecosystem was so great that it was potentially causing extinction. This "sport" could use a reduction in participants in regards to ecosystem health. It would probably reduce participation to a point where the cost of regulating it isn't even necessary burden for tax payers anymore. Those who hunt could catch as much game as they want. 
I'm not sure your argument here is factually sound.  I think any wildlife biologist would tell you a sudden decrease of hunting (deer, if not most/all herbivores) would cause havoc in most ecosystems along with rural and suburban communities .  Not saying long term we wouldn't be in better shape, but there would be serious pains in getting to a new equilibrium.

 
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I'm not sure your argument here is factually sound.  I think any wildlife biologist would tell you a sudden decrease of hunting (deer, if not most/all herbivores) would cause havoc in most ecosystems along with rural and suburban communities .  Not saying long term we'd be in better shape, but there would be serious pains in getting to a new equilibrium.
I agree that wildlife biologists would say that. What I'm suggesting is that there are currently hunters who would kill far more game per year if they were legally allowed to. If a lot of hunters no longer hunt because guns aren't allowed, then simply end the game limits and those that continue to hunt can kill more game then they were before. It may be a wash. It might not. But it's certainly not going to be the extreme some are suggesting. 

 
I agree that wildlife biologists would say that. What I'm suggesting is that there are currently hunters who would kill far more game per year if they were legally allowed to. If a lot of hunters no longer hunt because guns aren't allowed, then simply end the game limits and those that continue to hunt can kill more game then they were before. It may be a wash. It might not. But it's certainly not going to be the extreme some are suggesting. 
Ahh I see.  Thanks for restating that.  I guess I didn't get it the first time.  I agree with that statement, at least it's worth trying.

 
Right, but guns and alcohol are two things that a large portion of the population use without killing people. Yet people want to ban only one of them?

And please don't confuse my ongoing comparison that I am not for tighter gun regulations. I resort to this when the conversation turns to an outright ban of firearms. I think it's just as ridiculous. Especially when the same arguments of can be used for both. 
If an area is flooding, and people are suggesting solutions to the flooding. would you compare water to beer and ask why they aren't attacking beer like they are attacking water? Would you call people hypocrites because they seem to have no problem with beer but have an obvisious problem with water?

The problem the US is suffering from is a ridiculous over-saturation of guns. We are 4% of the worlds population and posses 48% of the world's guns. You can compare guns to anything in the world, but if the US is not suffering from an over-saturation of what it is you are comparing guns to, then we don't have the same problem with whatever it is you are comparing guns to. 

Do you agree that the US experiences mass shootings at a rate 5 times higher than any other country in the world? If not, how do you contest the data that shows that we are?

Do you think that the US experiences drunk driving deaths at a rate 5 times higher than any other country in the world? If so, do you have data to show that?

 
If an area is flooding, and people are suggesting solutions to the flooding. would you compare water to beer and ask why they aren't attacking beer like they are attacking water? Would you call people hypocrites because they seem to have no problem with beer but have an obvisious problem with water?

The problem the US is suffering from is a ridiculous over-saturation of guns. We are 4% of the worlds population and posses 48% of the world's guns. You can compare guns to anything in the world, but if the US is not suffering from an over-saturation of what it is you are comparing guns to, then we don't have the same problem with whatever it is you are comparing guns to. 

Do you agree that the US experiences mass shootings at a rate 5 times higher than any other country in the world? If not, how do you contest the data that shows that we are?

Do you think that the US experiences drunk driving deaths at a rate 5 times higher than any other country in the world? If so, do you have data to show that?
I'm not arguing solutions, just banning. If an area was flooding, would you suggest we ban water for everyone? Even those people that are not effected by flooding?

You keep complaining about statistics. What percentage of the world's guns did we possess 10, 20, or 30 years ago? I don't contest the numbers you are posting. What I would argue is that if the guns are the problem, the increase in overall guns should match the increase in rate of shootings. If not, then it's an increase in bad people that's moving the needle. 

Let's apply stats to alcohol. The U.S. isn't even on the list of most alcohol consumed per capita. But, we rank third most in regards to percent of road accident deaths involving alcohol.

In 2015, 10,265 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (29%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.

Of the 1, 1,132 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2015, 209 (16%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.

In 2015, nearly 1.1 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That’s one percent of the 111 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year.
Does that 1% number sound familiar? Does that fact that innocent kids are being killed sound familiar? 

I could replace alcohol with firearms in a lot of the posts and people still won't see any similarity. Maybe if there was media coverage every 52 minutes people would think it's a bigger deal. 

 
I'm not arguing solutions, just banning. If an area was flooding, would you suggest we ban water for everyone? Even those people that are not effected by flooding?
If people didn't need water, yes I would suggest banning water... at least until the problem is under control. 

As I said somewhere in one these threads, if people needed guns, then banning would be an irrational solution. 

 
How many bans on something as big as guns have worked in history?  I know two that have failed miserably, alcohol and drugs.

 
How many bans on something as big as guns have worked in history?  I know two that have failed miserably, alcohol and drugs.
Haven't the links pointed to bans of guns or specific types of guns working elsewhere?  Oh, I assume that you are just talking about our country.  

They are not quite the same thing as drugs and booze, but I guess that shouldn't stop us from not trying something and just letting the problem continue.  

 
Haven't the links pointed to bans of guns or specific types of guns working elsewhere?  Oh, I assume that you are just talking about our country.  

They are not quite the same thing as drugs and booze, but I guess that shouldn't stop us from not trying something and just letting the problem continue.  
It's very possible that the number of shootings go down, I won't deny that.  What I do know is that there will still be the manufacture and sale of illegal guns.  Guns will will be shipped into the country.  The only people with guns will be criminals and no other civilians will have any except for those who rebel against our government and start their own militias.  There will be large groups of people who will stand up against the government as they feel their rights will be infringed on.

You may not see the same types of shootings as we're seeing now but there will be plenty of death from the banning of guns, at least for a few years.

 
Wow, that example sure escalated quickly.  
It's not all from me, I've read various opinions online and a lot of them feel this is what would happen.  It wouldn't surprise me at all.  We all know the people who have the most guns are the type that would not just give them up on their own.  Many are ex-military and feel very strong about the constitution, so strong that they would fight back.

It's possible that they're all talk too but I'm not too sure about that.

 

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