Antonio Bryant signs with the Bengals (2 Viewers)

[FUBAR]

How the heck does this guy keep getting big money? $7 million a year? He's a decent #2 but nowhere near a #1.

Not a #1, huh? Name 32 WR in the NFL who you think are better than Antonio Bryant. I'm sure that expert consensus will have him easily in the top 25.

steve smithsteve smith ( Nyg)

braylon

jennings

AJ

Moss

Fitz

boldin

Vjax

Crabtree

Ocho y Cinco

Garcon

Reggie Wayne

Mike sims-walker

Miles Austin

Colston

nate burleson

Marshall

harvin

sidney rice

d. mason

Welker

santana moss

Megatron

Bowe

Chris Chambers ( was electric with Kc last season)

Roddy White

thats 27 WR's right there..now I could see taking either Bowe or Chambers off that list, but you're still looking at some 26 WR's who are better than Bryant.

we might even be able to add Hakeem Nicks to that list..

You know you're reaching when you include Burleson.You know you're not paying attention when you don't mention DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Hines Ward, and Santonio Holmes. Not sure I'd take all of them over Bryant as my #1, but they're arguable and certainly over Burleson or Santana.

 

[Sabertooth]

Why so confident in this? He obviously had a great 2008, but didn't play in 2007, wasn't that good in 2006 (iirc) and was God-awful in 2009. I know he was hurt, but he also ran horrible routes and he quit on his team.

Brett Favre quit on two teams. He seemed to be fine last year.

You're comparing Brett Favre to Antonio Bryant?

Only the fact that both quit on their teams. Otherwise they are not really comparable. Both are males I guess.

 

[TheFanatic]

As an AB owner in a dynasty league, I can't think of a better place that he could've landed. Seriously. I am actually elated by this signing....

really? I like the signing just fine but I would have taken Houston, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, New Orleans, and maybe even Denver if Marshall indeed leaves. Some of those are unlikely, but I'm not even including the highly unlikely teams like Indy, New England or Green Bay.

Let's take them in order:Houston - Between the Andre Johnson and the other WR's, plus the TE, where is he going to get more than 40 balls?Miami - Not bad, but I think they spread the ball around a bit much for me. Maybe that changes if they had a legit #1WR there.Dallas - Miles Austin plus Witten leave very little for AB. Chicago - Not bad with Martz there but Cutler seems to be a flake to me. And how many balls is he catching on December in Soldier Field? Also, Martz would love to give the RB 100 catches if he could.New Orleans - There is not a move crowded WR corps than NO other than maybe NYG.Denver - if Marshall leaves, that would be a good place for him.Indy - Wayne, Garcon, Dallas Clark and a healthy Gonzo. AB probably only comes out in 4 WR sets on this squadNew England - Moss, Welker/Edelman and AB as the 3rd option? How would that be better than Cinci?Green Bay - Jennings, Driver (old), and the TE. I could see him taking over for Driver but that's not going to be starting the season. More likely next year. I would be just as happy with a Marshall-less Denver and maybe a Miami, but the rest I'll take Cinci over...

 

[FUBAR]

As an AB owner in a dynasty league, I can't think of a better place that he could've landed. Seriously. I am actually elated by this signing....

really? I like the signing just fine but I would have taken Houston, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, New Orleans, and maybe even Denver if Marshall indeed leaves. Some of those are unlikely, but I'm not even including the highly unlikely teams like Indy, New England or Green Bay.

Let's take them in order:Houston - Between the Andre Johnson and the other WR's, plus the TE, where is he going to get more than 40 balls?Miami - Not bad, but I think they spread the ball around a bit much for me. Maybe that changes if they had a legit #1WR there.Dallas - Miles Austin plus Witten leave very little for AB. Chicago - Not bad with Martz there but Cutler seems to be a flake to me. And how many balls is he catching on December in Soldier Field? Also, Martz would love to give the RB 100 catches if he could.New Orleans - There is not a move crowded WR corps than NO other than maybe NYG.Denver - if Marshall leaves, that would be a good place for him.Indy - Wayne, Garcon, Dallas Clark and a healthy Gonzo. AB probably only comes out in 4 WR sets on this squadNew England - Moss, Welker/Edelman and AB as the 3rd option? How would that be better than Cinci?Green Bay - Jennings, Driver (old), and the TE. I could see him taking over for Driver but that's not going to be starting the season. More likely next year. I would be just as happy with a Marshall-less Denver and maybe a Miami, but the rest I'll take Cinci over...

Depends on your point of view. He could easily be #2 in NO with the best QB in the league right now (or at least top 3), he's better than Garcon or Gonzo so #2 in Indy, He'd be right behind AJ in Houston... if you don't think he's a great talent I see your point of view, but if you think he's a top 32 WR in the NFL, I'd like to see him with a great or very good QB.

 

[QUEZILLA]

There was one instance on the way back from London where he said his knee felt better than it ever did until the Glazers made the team fly coach on the way back.

How do these things get started? Real pet peeve of mine. The Bucs obviously charter a plane, as every professional team does.You really think they flew 60 players, then coaches, cheerleaders, staff, owners and bigwigs over to Europe on Southwest or something? I mean there's a time when it's ok to call them out for being cheap and not signing players, and then there's a time when you kind of sound stupid.

Next rumor is the Bucs won't be feeding the players during training camp either. Bring your own sandwich.

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/11/6/1119380/...don-flight-bucs

Rick Stroud of the St. Petersburg Times reports that Bucs wide receiver Antonio Bryant will miss his second consecutive game, sitting out the team’s Week 10 matchup against the Dolphins due to knee soreness.

Bryant re-injured his arthroscopically repaired knee during the team’s flight back from London.

Another reason not to put an NFL franchise in London: the flight back is an injury risk. Steven Holder of the St. Petersburg Times reports that Antonio Bryant may miss this week's game due to a setback with his arthroscopically repaired knee - a setback that Bryant believes he suffered during the long (and cramped) flight back from London. Bryant reportedly sat in coach during the flight.

The most immediate question is: NFL players sit in coach? This certainly should not dispel the rumors that the Glazer family is facing financial difficulty. Last week, the Glazers vociferously denied reports from local radio stations and the Business Insider that they were victims of fraudster Bernie Madoff (with the Business Insider citing an unnamed Wall Street source who said the Glazers lost close to $400 million in the Ponzi scheme). There were also reports that the Glazers were shopping the Bucs, presumably because of the Glazers' highly leveraged buyout of Manchester United that left the club $1.8 billion in debt. The Glazers denied these reports as well.

Bottom line: the Bucs are a cheap franchise. This may or may not be related to rumors that the Glazers are experiencing their own financial crisis. But flying their team coach on a trans-Atlantic flight doesn't help their image of being dangerously cash-strapped.

As for the actual football implications of Bryant's injury, potentially losing their top receiving threat will not do rookie quarterback Josh Freeman any favors as he makes his first career start against the Packers this week. The Bucs are the last winless team in the league.

 

[QUEZILLA]

I think AB completely mailed it in last year like Randy Moss did in Oakland. Huge strike against his character imo but I think he still can perform at a high level.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think AB completely mailed it in last year like Randy Moss did in Oakland. Huge strike against his character imo but I think he still can perform at a high level.

Based on the stellar QB play I can see what you mean...

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As an AB owner in a dynasty league, I can't think of a better place that he could've landed. Seriously. I am actually elated by this signing....

really? I like the signing just fine but I would have taken Houston, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, New Orleans, and maybe even Denver if Marshall indeed leaves. Some of those are unlikely, but I'm not even including the highly unlikely teams like Indy, New England or Green Bay.

sometimes being a #2 or 1B, opposite a 1A in Chad is better than being the #1 in Miami, when you have Carson Palmer at QB. Not buying CP is damaged goods. His WRs or lackthereof caused his demise last year.

If you watched him play, it seemed to be more than just his WRs. He didn't look right at all. His velocity and accuracy was no where near where it used to be.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Brett Favre quit on two teams. He seemed to be fine last year.

Which two temas did he quit on?He was traded by the Packers (coming off a great season) and had a torn bicep muscle with the Jets.

 

[Sabertooth]

Brett Favre quit on two teams. He seemed to be fine last year.

Which two temas did he quit on?He was traded by the Packers (coming off a great season) and had a torn bicep muscle with the Jets.

You ask which two teams, and then you name them.

 

[Kirby]

As an AB owner in a dynasty league, I can't think of a better place that he could've landed. Seriously. I am actually elated by this signing....

really? I like the signing just fine but I would have taken Houston, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, New Orleans, and maybe even Denver if Marshall indeed leaves. Some of those are unlikely, but I'm not even including the highly unlikely teams like Indy, New England or Green Bay.

sometimes being a #2 or 1B, opposite a 1A in Chad is better than being the #1 in Miami, when you have Carson Palmer at QB. Not buying CP is damaged goods. His WRs or lackthereof caused his demise last year.

If you watched him play, it seemed to be more than just his WRs. He didn't look right at all. His velocity and accuracy was no where near where it used to be.

I think his velocity is fine. Accuracy wasn't there, but I think he's the type of QB that needs to throw to get in a groove. They were a run first team last year. You get him in a no huddle/2 minute situation and he's on fire. Throwing once every 3 downs... not so much.

 

[Osaurus]

I think AB completely mailed it in last year like Randy Moss did in Oakland. Huge strike against his character imo but I think he still can perform at a high level.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Brett Favre quit on two teams. He seemed to be fine last year.

Which two temas did he quit on?He was traded by the Packers (coming off a great season) and had a torn bicep muscle with the Jets.

You ask which two teams, and then you name them.

I'm missing the "quit" part and leaving that for you to fill in.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Despite the question marks, he was clearly the best UFA WR. Coles' contract a year ago was also 4 years/$28m and Bryant is better.

The expiring CBA hit the WR market hard - no good 4-5 year guys available. No one will approach the contract TJ Housh got last year from the Seahawks. I think Bryant was the third best available WR behind Walter and Burleson (among UFA's, released WR's and FA's who did not receive a qualifying offer). He's a solid #2 at best. Walter got $21.5 mil over five years with $8 mil guaranteed. Burleson signed first and got $11 mil guaranteed on a 5 year $25 mil contract from the Lions (Linehan pursued him hard and they signed him the first or second day of free agency.) I haven't yet seen how much of Bryant's contract is guaranteed, and the four year contract number doesn't tell us much. With the injury and negative history, Bryant's guaranteed money might be closer to Chambers' and Mason's contracts than it is to Walter's and Burleson's.

 

[thekidd2009]

As an AB owner in a dynasty league, I can't think of a better place that he could've landed. Seriously. I am actually elated by this signing....

really? I like the signing just fine but I would have taken Houston, Miami, Dallas, Chicago, New Orleans, and maybe even Denver if Marshall indeed leaves. Some of those are unlikely, but I'm not even including the highly unlikely teams like Indy, New England or Green Bay.

sometimes being a #2 or 1B, opposite a 1A in Chad is better than being the #1 in Miami, when you have Carson Palmer at QB. Not buying CP is damaged goods. His WRs or lackthereof caused his demise last year.

If you watched him play, it seemed to be more than just his WRs. He didn't look right at all. His velocity and accuracy was no where near where it used to be.

I think his velocity is fine. Accuracy wasn't there, but I think he's the type of QB that needs to throw to get in a groove. They were a run first team last year. You get him in a no huddle/2 minute situation and he's on fire. Throwing once every 3 downs... not so much.

I don't know, when I watched him throw last year, I immediately thought this guy lost his arm. Me and my brother were talking about how weak his arm looked because he noticed it as well.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I would be shocked if he didn't get more than $8m guaranteed.

 

[ChargersOH]

I would be shocked if he didn't get more than $8m guaranteed.

He's got a bad rep and not a ton of suitors. Plus, the Bengals played T.O. against him. He wasn't getting Housh like dinero.It's a smart move by them. They can ditch him next year if he turns into a problem, or if Matt Jones clearly outplays him and wins the #2 position.

 

[doowain]

I think his velocity is fine. Accuracy wasn't there, but I think he's the type of QB that needs to throw to get in a groove. They were a run first team last year. You get him in a no huddle/2 minute situation and he's on fire. Throwing once every 3 downs... not so much.

I don't know, when I watched him throw last year, I immediately thought this guy lost his arm. Me and my brother were talking about how weak his arm looked because he noticed it as well.

I posted the following in the Official Bengals thread. Keep in mind, I watched every down of every game this year.

There are three things with Carson (and the offense) last year that have/had me concerned.

#1 - There is definitely something not quite right with Carson's elbow. He had a pretty substantial injury to it and opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner. Unfortunately returning sooner I think meant not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there. I'm hoping another offseason of mixing in rest and the weight room gets him back to where he was. You guys have to remember. It was an elbow injury. Not his shoulder. He should still be able to sling it, but you gotta understand.....he rested it for many months before he started throwing again. I'm sure during that time he wasn't lifting either. You do that as an athlete and the muscle melts away.

#2 - This issue I saw sporadically throughout the year, but it really showed in the playoff loss. Carson was not stepping into his throws. I'm not sure if it was the 2005 playoff game injury messing with his head, but he didn't look comfortable in the pocket and he looked scared to follow through with his front leg. Mix that with his elbow still not 100% and you see a very off quarterback who, on the surface, looks like he's lost it. That his arm is shot. I don't think that's the case here. I may be wrong, but I feel confident in saying that he'll prove some folks wrong that have written him off.

#3 - The offensive playcalling was atrocious. I understand that we changed our identity last year. We had been missing (since 2006) a strong running game. We found it last year and I know you have to run to win. Having said that, it's as if we were content in just running the ball and playing defense. Now, the big question is why did we get so conservative? Was it Carson's arm? Was it the horrendous play at WR? Was it just bad play calling? Those questions will start to be answered now that they signed a legitimate threat at WR opposite Chad. Hopefully that opens up things in the offense. If so, that will start to tell us truly what we still have in Carson. I'm hopeful.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I would be shocked if he didn't get more than $8m guaranteed.

He's got a bad rep and not a ton of suitors. Plus, the Bengals played T.O. against him. He wasn't getting Housh like dinero.It's a smart move by them. They can ditch him next year if he turns into a problem, or if Matt Jones clearly outplays him and wins the #2 position.

Bryant signed in less than a week so I don't think he was desperate for a deal. This is a pretty good contract for a guy who was out of the league in 2007 and didn't produce in 2009.Whether it's a "smart move," I dunno, because this is the same team that just wasted $10m guaranteed on Coles.

 

[gandalas]

There was one instance on the way back from London where he said his knee felt better than it ever did until the Glazers made the team fly coach on the way back.

How do these things get started? Real pet peeve of mine. The Bucs obviously charter a plane, as every professional team does.You really think they flew 60 players, then coaches, cheerleaders, staff, owners and bigwigs over to Europe on Southwest or something? I mean there's a time when it's ok to call them out for being cheap and not signing players, and then there's a time when you kind of sound stupid. Next rumor is the Bucs won't be feeding the players during training camp either. Bring your own sandwich.

Hmm...not many postings from this guy after that article above... On the actual AB signing, I certainly hope that he is the same type of player that was with Cleveland back in 2005. He managed an 1000 yard season with the wonderful QB combination of Trent Dilfer and Charlie Frye, so you know he has been able to do a lot with not much talent throwing him the ball. If Palmer can come back fully healthy, I think he could definitely do well.

 

[Malabar]

I think his velocity is fine. Accuracy wasn't there, but I think he's the type of QB that needs to throw to get in a groove. They were a run first team last year. You get him in a no huddle/2 minute situation and he's on fire. Throwing once every 3 downs... not so much.

I don't know, when I watched him throw last year, I immediately thought this guy lost his arm. Me and my brother were talking about how weak his arm looked because he noticed it as well.

I posted the following in the Official Bengals thread. Keep in mind, I watched every down of every game this year.

There are three things with Carson (and the offense) last year that have/had me concerned.

#1 - There is definitely something not quite right with Carson's elbow. He had a pretty substantial injury to it and opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner. Unfortunately returning sooner I think meant not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there. I'm hoping another offseason of mixing in rest and the weight room gets him back to where he was. You guys have to remember. It was an elbow injury. Not his shoulder. He should still be able to sling it, but you gotta understand.....he rested it for many months before he started throwing again. I'm sure during that time he wasn't lifting either. You do that as an athlete and the muscle melts away.

#2 - This issue I saw sporadically throughout the year, but it really showed in the playoff loss. Carson was not stepping into his throws. I'm not sure if it was the 2005 playoff game injury messing with his head, but he didn't look comfortable in the pocket and he looked scared to follow through with his front leg. Mix that with his elbow still not 100% and you see a very off quarterback who, on the surface, looks like he's lost it. That his arm is shot. I don't think that's the case here. I may be wrong, but I feel confident in saying that he'll prove some folks wrong that have written him off.

#3 - The offensive playcalling was atrocious. I understand that we changed our identity last year. We had been missing (since 2006) a strong running game. We found it last year and I know you have to run to win. Having said that, it's as if we were content in just running the ball and playing defense. Now, the big question is why did we get so conservative? Was it Carson's arm? Was it the horrendous play at WR? Was it just bad play calling? Those questions will start to be answered now that they signed a legitimate threat at WR opposite Chad. Hopefully that opens up things in the offense. If so, that will start to tell us truly what we still have in Carson. I'm hopeful.

Just looking at the numbers thru the first 8 games, Palmer was on pace for 3700-28, 61.5% completion. Whether it was his elbow, playcalling, lack of a WR2/TE/pass-catching RB, Palmer slowed down.

 

[Capella]

There was one instance on the way back from London where he said his knee felt better than it ever did until the Glazers made the team fly coach on the way back.

How do these things get started? Real pet peeve of mine. The Bucs obviously charter a plane, as every professional team does.You really think they flew 60 players, then coaches, cheerleaders, staff, owners and bigwigs over to Europe on Southwest or something? I mean there's a time when it's ok to call them out for being cheap and not signing players, and then there's a time when you kind of sound stupid.

Next rumor is the Bucs won't be feeding the players during training camp either. Bring your own sandwich.

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/11/6/1119380/...don-flight-bucs

Rick Stroud of the St. Petersburg Times reports that Bucs wide receiver Antonio Bryant will miss his second consecutive game, sitting out the team’s Week 10 matchup against the Dolphins due to knee soreness.

Bryant re-injured his arthroscopically repaired knee during the team’s flight back from London.

Another reason not to put an NFL franchise in London: the flight back is an injury risk. Steven Holder of the St. Petersburg Times reports that Antonio Bryant may miss this week's game due to a setback with his arthroscopically repaired knee - a setback that Bryant believes he suffered during the long (and cramped) flight back from London. Bryant reportedly sat in coach during the flight.

The most immediate question is: NFL players sit in coach? This certainly should not dispel the rumors that the Glazer family is facing financial difficulty. Last week, the Glazers vociferously denied reports from local radio stations and the Business Insider that they were victims of fraudster Bernie Madoff (with the Business Insider citing an unnamed Wall Street source who said the Glazers lost close to $400 million in the Ponzi scheme). There were also reports that the Glazers were shopping the Bucs, presumably because of the Glazers' highly leveraged buyout of Manchester United that left the club $1.8 billion in debt. The Glazers denied these reports as well.

Bottom line: the Bucs are a cheap franchise. This may or may not be related to rumors that the Glazers are experiencing their own financial crisis. But flying their team coach on a trans-Atlantic flight doesn't help their image of being dangerously cash-strapped.

As for the actual football implications of Bryant's injury, potentially losing their top receiving threat will not do rookie quarterback Josh Freeman any favors as he makes his first career start against the Packers this week. The Bucs are the last winless team in the league.

Nah, not buying it. All that was is a brief twitter post with no background info. Maybe Bryant came back on his own or something, but the Bucs aren't flying coach. "Broke" is a relative term. Maybe the Glazers are broke as compared to NFL owner standards, but they still own a team outright that is worth 700 million dollars. They aren't flying their team to London on coach with the common folk to play a game in front of 80,000 people. Plus, I thought the NFL was picking up travel costs for that game.

 

[Capella]

There was one instance on the way back from London where he said his knee felt better than it ever did until the Glazers made the team fly coach on the way back.

How do these things get started? Real pet peeve of mine. The Bucs obviously charter a plane, as every professional team does.You really think they flew 60 players, then coaches, cheerleaders, staff, owners and bigwigs over to Europe on Southwest or something? I mean there's a time when it's ok to call them out for being cheap and not signing players, and then there's a time when you kind of sound stupid. Next rumor is the Bucs won't be feeding the players during training camp either. Bring your own sandwich.

Hmm...not many postings from this guy after that article above...

Hi. I'm gainfully employed.

 

[ChargersOH]

I would be shocked if he didn't get more than $8m guaranteed.

He's got a bad rep and not a ton of suitors. Plus, the Bengals played T.O. against him. He wasn't getting Housh like dinero.It's a smart move by them. They can ditch him next year if he turns into a problem, or if Matt Jones clearly outplays him and wins the #2 position.

Bryant signed in less than a week so I don't think he was desperate for a deal. This is a pretty good contract for a guy who was out of the league in 2007 and didn't produce in 2009.Whether it's a "smart move," I dunno, because this is the same team that just wasted $10m guaranteed on Coles.

AB has tremendous upside. I'd say it's a smart move because you're getting a potential top tier WR at a decent price. If he turns out to be a problem child, they are only out the 8 mil in guaranteed cash. Less then Coles, even.The reason he signed now is the Bengals pretty much said if he didn't, they'd pursue T.O.. As far as I could tell, there weren't any teams breaking the door down to sign the guy. Heck, Baltimore could've saved some draft choices if they thought he was as good as Boldin.

 

[FUBAR]

I would be shocked if he didn't get more than $8m guaranteed.

He's got a bad rep and not a ton of suitors. Plus, the Bengals played T.O. against him. He wasn't getting Housh like dinero.It's a smart move by them. They can ditch him next year if he turns into a problem, or if Matt Jones clearly outplays him and wins the #2 position.

Bryant signed in less than a week so I don't think he was desperate for a deal. This is a pretty good contract for a guy who was out of the league in 2007 and didn't produce in 2009.Whether it's a "smart move," I dunno, because this is the same team that just wasted $10m guaranteed on Coles.

AB has tremendous upside. I'd say it's a smart move because you're getting a potential top tier WR at a decent price. If he turns out to be a problem child, they are only out the 8 mil in guaranteed cash. Less then Coles, even.The reason he signed now is the Bengals pretty much said if he didn't, they'd pursue T.O.. As far as I could tell, there weren't any teams breaking the door down to sign the guy. Heck, Baltimore could've saved some draft choices if they thought he was as good as Boldin.

Do you think anyone thinks he's as good as Boldin, in real NFL terms?

 

[cvnpoka]

I think his velocity is fine. Accuracy wasn't there, but I think he's the type of QB that needs to throw to get in a groove. They were a run first team last year. You get him in a no huddle/2 minute situation and he's on fire. Throwing once every 3 downs... not so much.

I don't know, when I watched him throw last year, I immediately thought this guy lost his arm. Me and my brother were talking about how weak his arm looked because he noticed it as well.

I posted the following in the Official Bengals thread. Keep in mind, I watched every down of every game this year.

There are three things with Carson (and the offense) last year that have/had me concerned.

#1 - There is definitely something not quite right with Carson's elbow. He had a pretty substantial injury to it and opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner. Unfortunately returning sooner I think meant not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there. I'm hoping another offseason of mixing in rest and the weight room gets him back to where he was. You guys have to remember. It was an elbow injury. Not his shoulder. He should still be able to sling it, but you gotta understand.....he rested it for many months before he started throwing again. I'm sure during that time he wasn't lifting either. You do that as an athlete and the muscle melts away.

#2 - This issue I saw sporadically throughout the year, but it really showed in the playoff loss. Carson was not stepping into his throws. I'm not sure if it was the 2005 playoff game injury messing with his head, but he didn't look comfortable in the pocket and he looked scared to follow through with his front leg. Mix that with his elbow still not 100% and you see a very off quarterback who, on the surface, looks like he's lost it. That his arm is shot. I don't think that's the case here. I may be wrong, but I feel confident in saying that he'll prove some folks wrong that have written him off.

#3 - The offensive playcalling was atrocious. I understand that we changed our identity last year. We had been missing (since 2006) a strong running game. We found it last year and I know you have to run to win. Having said that, it's as if we were content in just running the ball and playing defense. Now, the big question is why did we get so conservative? Was it Carson's arm? Was it the horrendous play at WR? Was it just bad play calling? Those questions will start to be answered now that they signed a legitimate threat at WR opposite Chad. Hopefully that opens up things in the offense. If so, that will start to tell us truly what we still have in Carson. I'm hopeful.

where are you getting this stuff? it was widely reported that all the drs he talked to, including dr james andrews, advocated that he not have surgery. are you implying there was some sort of cover up or conspiracy?

 

[doowain]

He had a pretty substantial injury to it and opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner. Unfortunately returning sooner I think meant not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there. I'm hoping another offseason of mixing in rest and the weight room gets him back to where he was. You guys have to remember. It was an elbow injury. Not his shoulder. He should still be able to sling it, but you gotta understand.....he rested it for many months before he started throwing again. I'm sure during that time he wasn't lifting either. You do that as an athlete and the muscle melts away.

where are you getting this stuff? it was widely reported that all the drs he talked to, including dr james andrews, advocated that he not have surgery. are you implying there was some sort of cover up or conspiracy?

What? How do you get "cover up or conspiracy" from that sentence?I don't recall exactly which doctor said what, but I do remember the decision on whether to have surgery or not came down to a meeting between Carson and the team doctors. And it was reported here (IN CINCY) that he chose not to have the surgery, to just rest it, so that he could return to action SOONER. Had he went through with the surgery, it might not have accomplished anything more than just resting it would do. Also, he'd be out of commission longer.

That is what I meant by that sentence. I'm not sure how you could have possibly misconstrued it.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

AB has tremendous upside. I'd say it's a smart move because you're getting a potential top tier WR at a decent price. If he turns out to be a problem child, they are only out the 8 mil in guaranteed cash. Less then Coles, even.

I haven't seen a number reported but again, I'm guessing more like $12m guaranteed. I don't think Bryant will be gone after this year.

 

[cvnpoka]

What? How do you get "cover up or conspiracy" from that sentence?

I don't recall exactly which doctor said what, but I do remember the decision on whether to have surgery or not came down to a meeting between Carson and the team doctors. And it was reported here (IN CINCY) that he chose not to have the surgery, to just rest it, so that he could return to action SOONER. Had he went through with the surgery, it might not have accomplished anything more than just resting it would do. Also, he'd be out of commission longer.

That is what I meant by that sentence. I'm not sure how you could have possibly misconstrued it.

i didnt misconstrue anything. you straight up said that his arm was not as strong bc he did not have surgery. nowhere did i read anything of the sort. everything i read reported that surgery was not recommended by any dr.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4028101

elbow is 100%

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3742563

"Like I keep saying, if I knew I had to have the surgery, I'd already have it done," Palmer said. "I'll see what the doctors say, have it checked out and go with a professional decision from a doctor."

Palmer has visited five specialists who have concluded the quarterback has a worrisome injury. The ulnar collateral ligament is a thick triangular band and sources say only one of the three portions of the ligament is frayed...

...However, Palmer discovered that both passers had considerably more damage than he has experienced.

Sources say Palmer is using a timetable that would still allow him to have the surgery at the latest possible date,

 

[nightmare]

What is Bryant's role? The short, tough, stuff-ala Housh.

Or the deep stuff-C Henry. Caldwell, Jones, Bryant-Who does what?

Even if you figure that out before your ff draft, not one of those wr's

will make a good #2. Weak #2, probably, but too inconsistent.

If/when C Palmer gets 100%, You still should let this be some one else's head ache.

 

[BigJim®]

where are you getting this stuff? it was widely reported that all the drs he talked to, including dr james andrews, advocated that he not have surgery. are you implying there was some sort of cover up or conspiracy?

If he is still bothered by the injury it doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Seems like its just a tricky injury to diagnose, and 18 month TJ recovery is the elephant in the room. It's definitely not uncommon for doctors to advocate rest and rehab, and it is also not uncommon for that to fail as these particular ligaments don't heal well on their own and remain subject to full tear. Two Minnesota Twins pitchers in the past 3 seasons have been examined by Dr. Andrews and were recommended to rest/rehab in lieu of surgery. Both players subsequently tore the ligament which required Tommy John. F&L posted in his dynasty thread that Palmer was experiencing pain again at the beginning of last season and few would argue he was not himself throwing the ball in 2010. If that was the trade-off for avoiding surgery, I'd say the jury is still out on whether it was a good decision. "Was rehab the right choice?" (Neshek recommended rest/rehab by Andrews)

Liriano examined by Andrews

 

[QuizGuy66]

What is Bryant's role? The short, tough, stuff-ala Housh. Or the deep stuff-C Henry. Caldwell, Jones, Bryant-Who does what? Even if you figure that out before your ff draft, not one of those wr's will make a good #2. Weak #2, probably, but too inconsistent. If/when C Palmer gets 100%, You still should let this be some one else's head ache.

I think Bryant's going to be the stretch the field guy.-QG

 

[cvnpoka]

a multitude of drs recommended no surgery.prior to the season it was widely reported that palmer claimed his elbow 100%.yet poster above claims that foregoing surgery meant that

not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there

poster also said palmer

opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner

both of those points are in direct contradiction to everything that was reported prior to the season. he opted out of surgery bc the tear was minor and bc the drs recommended he not have it. he is quoted many times as saying that his elbow was 100%.

 

[doowain]

a multitude of drs recommended no surgery.

prior to the season it was widely reported that palmer claimed his elbow 100%.

yet poster above claims that foregoing surgery meant that

not at a 100% because his arm strength certainly wasn't there

poster also said palmer

opted out of surgery so that he could return sooner

both of those points are in direct contradiction to everything that was reported prior to the season. he opted out of surgery bc the tear was minor and bc the drs recommended he not have it. he is quoted many times as saying that his elbow was 100%.

I still don't know what you're getting at. It's like you are arguing for argument's sake. I, in no way, am contradicting preseason reports. I'm merely building on them because they obviously weren't completely accurate. And that's not because they lied to us and it's a big conspiracy. It's because there wasn't a set timetable for resting an injury like this. He tested the elbow before the season and he felt 100%, sure. None of us know for sure what was wrong with Carson this year, but clearly something was. And, as another poster stated above, his first half stats were on par with his career averages. Now, that would lend to his elbow being 100% at year's start. BUT, he faded down the stretch and it was evident that his elbow was no longer 100%. His accuracy and zip was not what it usually is. He fluttered passes that I just never saw from him before. It is my opinion, and that's all any of us can do here considering we aren't the ones examining him, his elbow wore down over the course of the season. And THAT would lead us to believe that his elbow wasn't exactly 100% at the start of the season. If you don't get that, you obviously weren't watching all season.

And, yes, he opted out of surgery for two reasons. #1 - so he could return sooner (TJ surgery could require 18 months away from action) and #2 - it wasn't guaranteed that surgery would help any more than just pure rest would. So, again, not getting what your problem with my post is.

No one is questioning whether the doctors told him to have surgery or not. So, unless you have something to add, move along.

 

[cvnpoka]

#1 - so he could return sooner (TJ surgery could require 18 months away from action) and #2 - it wasn't guaranteed that surgery would help any more than just pure rest would. So, again, not getting what your problem with my post is.

oh. nice save then.

 

[doowain]

#1 - so he could return sooner (TJ surgery could require 18 months away from action) and #2 - it wasn't guaranteed that surgery would help any more than just pure rest would. So, again, not getting what your problem with my post is.

oh. nice save then.

Go pick a word war with someone else. Thanks.

What? How do you get "cover up or conspiracy" from that sentence?

I don't recall exactly which doctor said what, but I do remember the decision on whether to have surgery or not came down to a meeting between Carson and the team doctors. And it was reported here (IN CINCY) that he chose not to have the surgery, to just rest it, so that he could return to action SOONER. Had he went through with the surgery, it might not have accomplished anything more than just resting it would do. Also, he'd be out of commission longer.

That is what I meant by that sentence. I'm not sure how you could have possibly misconstrued it.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Wow, Mikey Boy actually broke open the wallet there. At that price, I'm a bit more bummed that didn't just go ahead and try to get Boldin.But he's GOT to be better than Coles and I'm glad they've taken the pressure off of HAVING to draft a receiver with their first pick.And I don't think this automatically precludes TO coming here, but it'll definitely be a way favorable contract for the Bengals if he does.Overall, -QG

Except for the part about TO coming with a way favorable contract comment. To that I can give myself a to the fact that this coulda/woulda/shoulda been Boldin though.-QG