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Is this some new shtick?
Is the "issue" here the "solution" being proposed? There's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't think "backdoors for everyone" is the correct solution, so when we see that I expect people to take issue with it because it's not necessary. So, if people are up in arms over the court's request "backdoors for everyone". I get it. I don't have a problem with the court requesting access to the information though. That's where it should be left. If Apple needs to work on the device to get the data, then fine. It's for that specific device. Do what you need to do. I don't see a request like that being all that different than asking a bank to open a particular safety deposit box after warrants have been provided etc.
It's unfounded speculation, yes.Is this some new shtick?
Is it now "wild speculation" that Apple already knows how to get around their own code or do people really believe it's possible Apple was dumb enough not to give themselves an out in situations like this?
This is pretty much where I'm at too. As far as getting into this particular phone this isn't a privacy issue at all. The only issue is really about in what ways/how far Apple should be expected to go about helping. I agree backdoors everywhere isn't the right answer.
Each safety deposit box has it's own key, correct? Complying with this request would in theory make a "key" that would unlock all the safety deposit boxes, anywhere, at any time (in this case, iphones).
The fact you think this indicates you really don't have a good grasp on encryption and what the larger implications of creating a backdoor to the encryption are.
RIght...this gets to the "solution" part of my post. You don't need a key that opens all boxes...just the one box. And if the judge will settle for nothing less than "a key for all" then screw them. That's absurd.
The alternative is that Apple doesn't know their code OR they coded it this way on purpose. I have more faith in Apple than that. Has Apple come out and said they have no idea how to get around their own code? I had heard they don't think it's fair to ask them to do it. I think I'm pretty safe with this "wild speculation" or "unfounded speculation" here. They know what they have to do.
But they can't do that. They would have to make the master key in order to comply with what the government is requesting. I understand that the hope is that it's only used on this "one box", but no one would have any way to ensure that.
Except that when you create the software to hack into the iOS/iPhone, it then can be used for every iOS/iPhone.
Have they (Apple) come out and said they can't address just this specific phone? I'd like to see their reason why.
You don't understand encryption. To get an idea of it, search encryption ransom.Is this some new shtick?
Is it now "wild speculation" that Apple already knows how to get around their own code or do people really believe it's possible Apple was dumb enough not to give themselves an out in situations like this?
Essentially, yes. Have you not read Tim Cook's letter? If not, I suggest you do. Here are a few other links you could check out as well:
Yes. They would have to recreate iOS from scratch without the safeguards already in place in the current iOS. The new iOS without those safeguards could then be used on any iphone, anywhere, at any time.
So? I am confident the knowledge is already there. It's known within Apple what needs to happen. Knowing that makes this seem like a large strawman.
It's what I did for a living for 5+ years. Unless they don't know their own algorithm, there are ways around it.
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It's one thing to do this and distribute it to the whole user base. It's another to do this, inside Apple with FBI oversight on a specific device. I have a huge issue with the first scenario, no issue with the second.
never said I was an expertFor a guy who claims to be an expert on this subject matter (because, 5 years experience), Commish sure isn't acting like it.
Some of the questions you're asking here have been directly answered in various documents already.
Put down the keyboard, pick up the reading glasses. See ya tomorrow.
only that there are safe ways to get this that don't involve distributing a hacked version of the OS to all users everywhere. Didn't mean to get in the way of all the 
carry on.
This is pretty much where I stand on it too. If this is something the FBI wants Apple to do with all iOS devices going forward, then no, Apple shouldn't do it. But if it is a one off scenario and it's done by Apple and then they report back to the FBI what's there, then I don't have a problem with that.
Ok. Let's just trust that once the backdoor is created the FBI will promise cross their heart hope to die to ONLY use this way to break into Apple's encryption, JUST THIS ONCE. Seriously guys, we PROMISE!! Weren't you the one suggesting some of US were naive earlier??
Oh, I'm sure the gubmint will say "we won't do it again, scouts honor!" and then reproduce it at the NSA while subpoenaing Apple over and over so they don't get suspicious...
Let me ask a question. What's to stop Apple developers from creating this backdoor today? What would stop them from providing the specifics to the FBI? They could do this a billion times for the FBI as far as I'm concerned as long as there's a warrant.
When are you boys going to realize if you don't want problems... keep your private stuff off your electronic devices.... No photographic evidence of men's night out, no texting your girlfriends when you are married, stay off the face book when married so on and so forth... I was once told by an older gentleman..."Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open and you might f**king learn something"...Words to live by....Look around, this isn't 1995 grandpaA lot of people do. It's one of Apple's selling points with the Iphone. Have you heard of Apple Pay?
I guess you missed the last 8 words of what your copied and pasted - "there is no way to guarantee such control". This presumably wouldn't be one guy working on a new iOS version. It would be quite a few, possibly dozens - both apple employees as well as FBI agents. This could put apples own security code (there is a term for it, escapes me now) at risk. If that gets out somehow, it's totally game over for security on any iOS device. That new iOS would be worth millions (possibly hundreds of millions) to certain people/governments. I'm not sure its something that could be kept safe.
That wasn't in any of your links you provided me....where was this said by Apple? I find it hard to believe that Apple can't figure out how to put the software JUST on this particular device.
This is a potential risk already. Developers in the company could do this if they wanted to. Now, I will say, I see absolutely NO REASON for the FBI to be working on this. At that point I say screw them. They don't need to be part of this.
You guys aren't reading what I am saying at all. This isn't about creating backdoors and deploying them....I've already stated several times I would not be ok with that approach. All your links were about how backdoors and encryption were stupid and I agree. I've moved past this argument on to the actual problem at hand and potential solutions.The fact you think this indicates you really don't have a good grasp on encryption and what the larger implications of creating a backdoor to the encryption are.
of course it could. I would expect Apple do the needful to prevent that from happening just like they do the needful to make sure developers don't go throw out random backdoor code today. If Apple can keep their day to day development efforts from pushing out scary code like this, I am pretty sure they can keep this specific effort from getting pushed out.
And when the FBI has a phone with this unsecured OS installed, you don't think they could copy that OS and install it on other phones? Or release it to other agencies? It's really not a stretch to think that once the unsecured OS exists, it will get out.
If apple allows them to have it of course. the FBI is after the data on the phone right? Apple could easily give them all the data without giving them the phone or allowing the phone to leave the premises. It doesn't have to get out...if it gets out it's on Apple. That's why I am confident it wouldn't get out.
They should be allowed to anytime they have a proper warrant.
There doesn't need to be regulation outside of "comply with all data requests outlined in warrant" or some such. How they get the data (back door, complete refresh of loosened OS etc) is of no consequence. This thing seemed to go off the rails when the "backdoors for everyone" meme showed up. There's a large gap between "give me everything" and "give you nothing".
Don't they have a right to protect their company and brand, along with hundreds of millions of their customers?
