What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Apple v. US Government (1 Viewer)

Jobber said:
Can this get fasttracked to the SCOTUS? It'd be interesting to see how that goes.
Click to expand...
Probably should... I mean your house may or may not contain something that may or may not have any connection to a crime, so I figure we should check on a whim to be sure 

 
Jobber said:
Can this get fasttracked to the SCOTUS? It'd be interesting to see how that goes.
Click to expand...
Probably should... I mean your house may or may not contain something that may or may not have any connection to a crime, so I figure we should check on a whim to be sure. It's what our founding fathers would have wanted..Land of the Free, and all that. 

 
Jobber said:
Can this get fasttracked to the SCOTUS? It'd be interesting to see how that goes.
Click to expand...
Serious question - what would happen if that occurred today?  Do they wait on it till the 9th justice is appointed?  If not, what would a 4 to 4 outcome mean?

 
matttyl said:
Serious question - what would happen if that occurred today?  Do they wait on it till the 9th justice is appointed?  If not, what would a 4 to 4 outcome mean?
Click to expand...
They couldn't take it directly to the supreme court, it would have to be decided by a lower court and then appealed. A 4-4 decision means the lower court's ruling would stand.

 
I think it would be one thing if there were a statute compelling Apple to cooperate to effectuate a warrant.  There would still be a tough constitutional question, but I could see arguments both ways.

I think its absurd, however, to read the All Writs Act to authorize the DOJ to force Apple to cooperate.  I recognize that there is some persuasive precedent with Telecom companies, but even that gives an out if its an undue burden.  But I think New York Telephone Co., should ultimately be overturned. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
There is no fundamental right or high expectaion to privacy on your smart phone or any phone. The "strongest" right to privacy exisits in your domicile.
Click to expand...
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . .

Looks to me like effects is right there with houses.

 
Rohn Jambo said:
I already voiced my opinion on this issue when the terrorists attacked Paris.  The government does not have a spare key to every residence but they can get a court order to search my property with good justification.  Why does this not work for iPhones?

Anyway, it looks like Apple does have a "back door":

http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bernardino-shooters-apple-id-passcode-changed-government/story?id=37066070
Click to expand...
No one is arguing they can't try to access the terrorist's phone.

 
Christo said:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . .

Looks to me like effects is right there with houses.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree. I'm saying this expectation of privacy that your physical phone cannot ever be subject to search that everybody seems to be saying or worried about is false. If there is a valid warrant, then it is fair game just like anything else.

The government likely cannot force Apple to cooperate right now. But legislation getting passed that dictates that telecommunications devices be accessible to government search and seizure if a valid warrant is sworn is likely if they do not. Then they'd be forced to do so just like other companies are subject to certain government restrictions at the risk of their products being illegal. 

Should there be a black hole in surveillance that everybody knows about that can be easily exploited by criminals and terrorists?  Or should smartphones be subject to constitutional search and seizure like everything else?

i don't get the argument at all that these physical phones should be off limits even if there is a warrant. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I don't disagree. I'm saying this expectation of privacy that your physical phone cannot ever be subject to search that everybody seems to be saying or worried about is false. If there is a valid warrant, then it is fair game just like anything else.

The government likely cannot force Apple to cooperate right now. But legislation getting passed that dictates that telecommunications devices be accessible to government search and seizure if a valid warrant is sworn is likely if they do not. Then they'd be forced to do so just like other companies are subject to certain government restrictions at the risk of their products being illegal. 

Should there be a black hole in surveillance that everybody knows about that can be easily exploited by criminals and terrorists?  Or should smartphones be subject to constitutional search and seizure like everything else?

i don't get the argument at all that these physical phones should be off limits even if there is a warrant. 
Click to expand...
What's false is your claim that everyone is saying that your physical phone cannot ever be subject to search. No one is saying that. That's what's called a strawman.

 
Christo said:
What's false is your claim that everyone is saying that your physical phone cannot ever be subject to search. No one is saying that. That's what's called a strawman.
Click to expand...
Ok. So people are concerned that the government can force a private company to create something for them without legislation?

If the FBI were able to create the software on their own that could backdoor the phones, and they had a warrant, everybody is ok with that?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Ok. So people are concerned that the government can force a private company to create something for them without legislation?

If the FBI were able to create the software on their own that could backdoor the phones, and they had a warrant, everybody is ok with that?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for everybody.

 
The Commish said:
I don't know what LJ meant by "work with the government" here but do you think it's completely wrong of Apple to decrypt the stored data and provide it to the government?
Click to expand...
They're not being asked to decrypt the data. They're being forced to circumvent security features in their operating system.

 
A few notes from stuff I've read recently:

- apparently Apple has cooperated in about 70 cases with the FBI already.

- also apparently Apple has cooperated previously with the Chinese government 

- The police had a chance to unlock the Farooks' phone early on. They could have used the automatic login by accessing the wifi/network in the Farooks' home but either didn't think of it it couldn't because it had been ransacked by media and the public. So the SB police tech guy tried to reset the password which was botched and that led to the situation they are in today. 

- Apparently the data on iCloud was accessed by the Farooks' conspirators even though the police and Feds could not get to it.

- not sure that's all correct but that's what I recall from recent articles.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Christo said:
They're not being asked to decrypt the data. They're being forced to circumvent security features in their operating system.
Click to expand...
I know, which is :bs:

I'm asking you if you're ok with Apple helping them get the data without circumventing their operating system security?  There's a ton of middle ground here between where the gov't began and where Apple began.

 
With John McAfee (and his team) offering to unlock the phone for free, do you think there's enough grounds for apple to file an injunction on him? 

 
FattyVM said:
With John McAfee (and his team) offering to unlock the phone for free, do you think there's enough grounds for apple to file an injunction on him? 
Click to expand...
I don't know about any injunctions but John McAfee is a crazy person and if the FBI gives him the phone to unlock the most likely result is that he smashes it on a rock then runs off into the woods gibbering like a baboon.

 
matuski said:
The FBI screwing up the password reset is hilarious.
Click to expand...
Or just plain sad, supposedly there was evidence that the Farooks were acting as part of a cell in the SB area. It's a major f|up risking people's live and letting very bad guys get away.

Note - I think it as the local PD which screwed this up IIRC.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Or just plain sad, supposedly there was evidence that the Farooks were acting as part of a cell in the SB area. It's a major f|up risking people's live and letting very bad guys get away.

Note - I think it as the local PD which screwed this up IIRC.
Click to expand...
Having interacted with the IT departments of police departments, this comes as zero surprise.

 
:lmao:   at the idiots in here protecting a terrorists phone from being accessed. I guaran####ingtee you that if there was a hint of a plot to kill any one of you in that phone, you would be begging the gov't to get apple to access it and would be screaming that the gov't won't help you if they denied your request.

And get off the idea that the govt' will then want your phones. They could care less about your lame & meaningless facebook posts & tweets from your iphone. You are insignificant.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
lod01 said:
:lmao:   at the idiots in here protecting a terrorists phone from being accessed. I guaran####ingtee you that if there was a hint of a plot to kill any one of you in that phone, you would be begging the gov't to get apple to access it and would be screaming that the gov't won't help you if they denied your request.

And get off the idea that the govt' will then want your phones. They could care less about your lame & meaningless facebook posts & tweets from your iphone. You are insignificant.
Click to expand...

 
lod01 said:
:lmao:   at the idiots in here protecting a terrorists phone from being accessed. I guaran####ingtee you that if there was a hint of a plot to kill any one of you in that phone, you would be begging the gov't to get apple to access it and would be screaming that the gov't won't help you if they denied your request.

And get off the idea that the govt' will then want your phones. They could care less about your lame & meaningless facebook posts & tweets from your iphone. You are insignificant.
Click to expand...
:lmao:

 
First they came for the terrorist's government-issued iPhone 5c, which the FBI botched, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a terrorist.

Then they came for 12 more iPhones related to other various investigations, and I did not speak out— Because I was not being investigated.

Then they came for the passwords, metadata, and iCloud backups from everyone, and I did not speak out— Because I figured the NSA had already obtained all that illegally, and I have nothing to hide, so why bother?

Then they came for MY iPhone 6+, and I was like wtf? There was no way to tweet for help, and nobody there to retweet or tweet back, because their lives had been confiscated too. 

- johnnyrock

 
Apple trying to take a hard stance here/now so that they can with other countries where personal liberty protections are much worse.

It's not going to work.

 
Huh. Its almost like the FBI flat out lied about what it needed from Apple because it wanted a master program that lets them break into all iPhones. 

 
whoknew said:
Huh. Its almost like the FBI flat out lied about what it needed from Apple because it wanted a master program that lets them break into all iPhones. 
Click to expand...
Unpossible,  the government would never lie and should be trusted to have unfettered access to everything in your life. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Surveillance Expansion Snuck into Budget Bill
Replies
17
Views
496
RCon
R
Arizona Ron
Apple Buys "Beats By Dre" for $3 Billion
2 3
Replies
122
Views
3K
The Ref
The Ref
tommyboy
so, nobody's cell phone is safe from spying now
Replies
4
Views
553
MC Gas Money
MC Gas Money

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top