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Are the events of January 6, 9/11 and Bombing Pearl Harbor on relatively the same level with regard to how bad they are? (1 Viewer)

I identify mostly Independent: Are the events of January 6, 9/11 and Bombing Pearl Harbor on relativ


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Joe Bryant

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Staff member
A poll can be a good way to get a pulse on how people feel about an issue.

The headline from Vice President Harris' speech yesterday was "Kamala Harris compares January 6 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 in anniversary speech at the Capitol"

"Certain dates echo throughout history, including dates that instantly remind all who have lived through them where they were, and what they were doing, when our democracy came under assault," Harris said. "Dates that occupy not only a place on our calendars, but a place in our collective memory: December 7th, 1941, September 11th, 2001, and January 6th, 2021."


Transcript here. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/politics/transcript-kamala-harris-january-6-anniversary-speech/index.html

This has generated discussion about what she actually meant by the comparison. 

Specifically, are the events on the same level for how bad they were? Or are they just on the same level for how memorable they are?

Most people I've talked to are asking if they are considered to be on the same level for how bad they were.

I can't ask Vice President Harris what she meant exactly. But I can ask you folks. I'm interested in what the forum thinks on this. 

I know people all don't fit into a nice neat box politically, but I'm asking the same question to 3 demographics. Please just answer the one that best fits you. 

 
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And for why I'm asking, I had a conservative friend ask me yesterday if the people on my forum thought they were on the same level.

I told him I wasn't sure and would ask. 

 
No, and the reason the VP should not have included 1/6 among other dates that will be remembered is because people who really don't want to discuss 1/6 would rather discuss how she compared them as equal.

Which she didn't. 

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????

 
The "events" and how bad they were are not on the same level.

Her comment on dates people will remember, however, is true.  Though, I maintain she should not have invoked those dates because immediately it opened her up for criticism that she was comparing the events in a different way.

And yeah...what Bass said...no way to vote on just one part of the poll.

 
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To answer your question, obviously no.  One led to years of death, suffering, and sacrifice across the world.  The other was snuffed out in one day.  Will the date stand out the same, probably so because of recency bias.

 
The "events" and how bad they were are not on the same level.

Her comment on dates people will remember, however, is true.  Though, I maintain she should not have invoked those dates because immediately it opened her up for criticism that she was comparing the events in a different way.

And yeah...what Bass said...no way to vote on just one part of the poll.


Hey sho...am I conservative, independant, or a filthy liberal bent on the destruction of this country per GG?

 
No, and the reason the VP should not have included 1/6 among other dates that will be remembered is because people who really don't want to discuss 1/6 would rather discuss how she compared them as equal.

Which she didn't. 

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????


I guess this is where we are in this day and age.  I'm not a Harris fan but don't have an issue with what she expressed.  Looking back on it, I guess it wasn't the best choice of words for the reasons you suggest.

 
I guess this is where we are in this day and age.  I'm not a Harris fan but don't have an issue with what she expressed.  Looking back on it, I guess it wasn't the best choice of words for the reasons you suggest.
'I remember where I was on 9/11. I remember where I was for the OJ verdict.'

You insensitive monster.......

 
No, and the reason the VP should not have included 1/6 among other dates that will be remembered is because people who really don't want to discuss 1/6 would rather discuss how she compared them as equal.

Which she didn't. 

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????
This is exactly it.  She wasn't comparing the events, but she was talking about dates that are immortalized because of bad things.  Now the people who want to sweep January 6th are only talking about this.  Even Joe started this poll when he probably knows that she isn't comparing the actual events.

 
Precisely....

9/11 was the first day of a new career.

OJ verdict was the day I received patent approved notification
Whoa. Cool. 

OJ verdict: my college roomie and I planned our day after we found out verdict was coming, we had to buy weed, and do laundry before the announcement. I was folding basketball shorts when he got off. 

 
No, and the reason the VP should not have included 1/6 among other dates that will be remembered is because people who really don't want to discuss 1/6 would rather discuss how she compared them as equal.

Which she didn't. 

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????
This is exactly right.  1/6 was a national embarrassment that should have ended a bunch of people's political careers.  The fact that it didn't is a disgrace.  Let's just stick that that.  Because when you link it to 9/11 (for example), then the conversation is going to be about whether that's a good comparison or not, and now we're not talking about the important thing which is that 1/6 was very bad.  Kind of similar to how people make dumb comparisons between vaccine mandates and Nazi Germany (but not as extreme).

 
This is exactly it.  She wasn't comparing the events, but she was talking about dates that are immortalized because of bad things.  Now the people who want to sweep January 6th are only talking about this.  Even Joe started this poll when he probably knows that she isn't comparing the actual events.
She could've said that without mentioning 9/11 or pearl harbor 

 
Jan 6 was a bad day, but in reality it was a couple thousand clowns that got caught up in some hysteria. With a little better preparation it would have been snuffed out in an hour or two.

Pearl Harbor attack entered the USA into a World War that lasted 6 years with millions of people getting killed.

 
No, for two reasons:

1)  Simply look at the body counts.  That sounds callous but is a significant factor in how we look at tragic days in our country's history.

2)  More than half the country thinks that 1/6/21 is nothing more than a protest gone too far.  The other dates have near, if not 100%, unanimity about the day/event being tragic. 

This is simply a talking point and a deflection from the train wreck that is the Biden presidency. 

 
Sorry Folks. I thought it would allow you to not vote on a question. My bad. 

Should be ok now with the "not applicable" option on each question. 

 
Of course not.  Did someone say they were equally bad?  I haven't seen anyone say that, and yes I watched the remarks yesterday.

 
No, for two reasons:

1)  Simply look at the body counts.  That sounds callous but is a significant factor in how we look at tragic days in our country's history.

2)  More than half the country thinks that 1/6/21 is nothing more than a protest gone too far.  The other dates have near, if not 100%, unanimity about the day/event being tragic. 

This is simply a talking point and a deflection from the train wreck that is the Biden presidency. 
Correct answer.  I can tell you where I was for the Kirk Gibson HR, OJ Chase, or Buster beating Tyson (not 1/6/21). However, it is an insult to compare anything to Pearl Harbor and 9/11.  

 
Correct answer.  I can tell you where I was for the Kirk Gibson HR, OJ Chase, or Buster beating Tyson (not 1/6/21). However, it is an insult to compare anything to Pearl Harbor and 9/11.  


True and I think it was a poor idea to bring them up together, but I think the point was the dates thing.  I remember where I was for the OJ Chase/verdict but I don't remember the date.  "1/6" is a date that will always be remembered, even by those who don't think it was that big of a deal.

 
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The people who attended the protest and subsequent riot need to be separated from the political leadership.

The protests at the capitol, which turned into riots were horrible.  Not everyone, probably not even a majority, but there were bad people there with bad intentions.  It was an embarrassment on many fronts.  Those people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  They should have been dealt with more forcibly by the capitol police from the beginning.  But I would say the same thing about the 2020 riots as well.  All that said, the comparison to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor is laughable.

I need to do more research on Trumps actions and plan to fully form an opinion.  Best I can tell right now is that he concocted a plan to contradict a legal election.  Did he really believe it was unlawful and was merely using the means at his disposal to fight it (as others have done in the past)?  Thats where I need to do more research, but I'd say right now I think that 1) He doesn't even believe his own bull#### and 2) The actions he was undertaking and planning to undertake were way too far and 3) Independent of 1&2 he had responsibility for talking down the protestors on 1/6, which he did not.

 
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NOT equally bad, but a date that will most certainly be remembered as a dark day in our history. The date an outgoing presidential administration tried to overturn an election. Third world county stuff. It will be studied for generations.

As for casualties and loss of life, no.

 
No, and the reason the VP should not have included 1/6 among other dates that will be remembered is because people who really don't want to discuss 1/6 would rather discuss how she compared them as equal.

Which she didn't. 

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????
Pretty much this....all this approach did was provide people with something other than the actual point to focus on, so of course that's what they're going to do.  Anything to ignore the severity of what happened on 1/6

 
Correct answer.  I can tell you where I was for the Kirk Gibson HR, OJ Chase, or Buster beating Tyson (not 1/6/21). However, it is an insult to compare anything to Pearl Harbor and 9/11.  


Well there was was wagging the dog going on as well.  Bidens ratings are in a free fall and  Harris has not been popular so she needed to do some pandering.

 
Of course not.  Did someone say they were equally bad?  I haven't seen anyone say that, and yes I watched the remarks yesterday.


What @massraider said above is exactly how it's happening.

Her people are idiots. There wasn't one intern in there who was like, "umm, if you mention those dates, people will jump on that, and say you are comparing Pearl Harbor"????
The headlines are literally: "Kamala Harris compares January 6 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 in anniversary speech at the Capitol"

https://www.businessinsider.com/kamala-harris-pearl-habor-911-comparison-jan-6-speech-2022-1

My conservative friends asked me about it. So I asked here. 

 
Not a good comparison. No comparison was needed, either.

Why do people so quickly turn to comparisons and analogies anyway? "Whataboutism", false equivalencies and the like make discussion/mutual understanding even more challenging.

 
Not same level.

Jan 6th is the only one from the three that was created by our own President misleading our own people which does make it unique and extremely disturbing.

 
Not a good comparison. No comparison was needed, either.

Why do people so quickly turn to comparisons and analogies anyway? "Whataboutism", false equivalencies and the like make discussion/mutual understanding even more challenging.
To avoid honest conversation and/or to allow hypocrites to point out people being hypocritical.  

 
She could've said that without mentioning 9/11 or pearl harbor 


Maybe she should have said, "Never forget, 6/1 is a day that will live in infamy"

And I think Joe should have based the poll on what she actually said rather than how the opposition framed it.  He explained it a bit in the body, but not in the title. That seems disingenuous to me.

 
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Probably no need for this pole to be anything but a yes or no.   This is one that would be close as any here to 100% as not on the same level.

 
What @massraider said above is exactly how it's happening.

The headlines are literally: "Kamala Harris compares January 6 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 in anniversary speech at the Capitol"

https://www.businessinsider.com/kamala-harris-pearl-habor-911-comparison-jan-6-speech-2022-1

My conservative friends asked me about it. So I asked here. 
Did you tell your conservative friends that she wasn't actually comparing the events, she was only comparing how the date of Jan. 6th will go down in infamy similar to those other dates.

 
compares <> saying they are equally bad
Sure, but now you're stuck explaining that distinction to people, when you should be talking instead about how 1/6 was bad.

That's why this was a dumb thing to say.  I'm surprised a professional speechwriter signed off on it, because it was easy to see ex ante how this would be a pointless distraction.

 
Maybe she should have said, "Never forget, 6/1 is a day that will live in infamy"

And I think Joe should have based the poll on what she actually said rather than how the opposition framed it.  He explained it a bit in the body, but not in the title. That seems disingenuous to me.
I also don't like the framing of the poll question. I didn't respond because I don't think they're "on the same level with regard to how bad they are", but I do believe its on a similar level to how it will be remembered. Like Watergate, it will always be remembered.

 
Blowing 1/6 completely out of proportion for political ends was completely the point. 

LOL @ "You know she could have blown this out of proportion respectfully without comically blowing it out of proportion. Now it's distracting from the hand we wanted to over play."

 
This topic allows me to note one of my current pet peeves - the near universal online misuse and misunderstanding of the word "compare."

"estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between"

You can "compare" two things and find them dissimilar.  Indeed, many if not most comparisons result in a finding of partial or complete dissimilarity. I can compare Laphroig 18 to Dewar's. They are both scotch, both light brown in color, both come in a bottle - otherwise nearly completely dissimilar liquids.

There's nothing wrong with "comparing" 1/6 to pearl harbor. It would be ridiculous to compare the two events and find them identical or substantially similar in historical scope, level of tragedy, etc.  It is perfectly reasonable to "compare" the two events and find them substantially dissimilar, but to note they are both memorable dates in our nation's history.  Most would say one of them is substantially more memorable than the other and of substantially more historical importance. I personally did not see the Harris speech, do not intend to see it, have no desire to see it and otherwise have no opinion on the topic.

 
While what happened on 1/6 was unprecedented in American history and a national embarrassment it’s not even in the same ballpark as either one of the other days. Harris should be ashamed of herself for the comparison.  

 

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