Arian Foster (1 Viewer)

[GregR_2]

I noticed something in the week 2 upgrades/downgrades s

"He is now a must start in all formats as the Texans can be expected to give him the ball often now that they seem to finally have found a decent running back."

How much of a must start? Against Washington? Im curious what others think about this. I have other good options at RB and I dont want to make this a WDIS question. Just tell me your thoughts about the "Must Start" label.

I'd probably start him over everyone but the top 4 or so RBs until he proves unworthy of it.I think it's a mistake to put too much stock into the first game. But at the same time, the O-line has looked awesome in both the preseason and now the regular season, and Foster is showing running ability that is better than I thought he had. There is the question how the O-line will do against a bigger line, but I think I'd ride him until I have reason to do otherwise.

In my own case, in one league he's a clearcut starter (Barber or Cadillac are the other options)... but in the other I have AP and DeAngelo Williams. I started Foster over DeAngelo last week after much debate (yay me!), and I'm much more comfortable with doing so again this week. So I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Due to Foster's propensity to fumbling at critical times he earned the nickname "Fumblin' Foster" from many Tennessee fans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_FosterRead the paragraph's in the "college career" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_Foster

What part of "propensity to fumbling at critical times", "from many Tennessee fans", or "Foster was the recipient of a fumbled left-handed hand-off from injured quarterback Erik Ainge which was returned for a touchdown. Tennessee had been gaining momentum and pulled within 7 points of Florida in the second half of the game before the botched run play" shows that he has a worse history of fumbling than Slaton?I just don't get why people bother posting when they don't know the subject.

The subject is whether or not Foster has a propensity for Fumbling, history says yes.. Someone else actually had a career total either earlier in this thread or in another.. Foster had more career total fumbles then Slayton as per that persons research...Say whatever you want, I could care less what you think. I know some people will argue whether the print is black or dark grey.. The point is, Foster has a fumblers history, that could reserface, and his coach benched a fumbler who was blowing us away in previous seasons..

Being ignorant about it is just rude and daft on your part. I'm just showing what I've seen. Take the information into account or don't. Your choice.

Tiki Barber had the same problem early on. It's fixable as he proved. Foster hasn't (yet) demonstrated that it's an issue in the NFL, which is what counts. Nobody cares much about college.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Regardless of which RB's you would or would not give for Foster, I wouldn't make any trade for Foster until after next week where the odds are pretty good that he will score less than this week. It would be very foolish to buy in at the peak value. Not saying he won't be great all year, just saying this is the worst time to buy. A little patience goes a long way.

No one is expecting him to duplicate week 1. However, if he has merely a good game (as opposed to an outstanding one like vs the colts), then I think his value goes up. I think there is a reasonable chance of that happening.

Washington's run D seems a bit better test then Indy's.. Will be interesting to see how the game plan might change.

I agree that this is the worst time to pick up Foster. But I'm not sure how good Washington's run D is. Dallas' two best RBs only had 16 carries combined, but they cut through the Redskins' run D like butter:M. Barber: 8 carries for 39 yeards, a 4.9 ypc averageF. Jones: 8 carries for 38 yards, a 4.8 ypc averageReally, makes you wonder why Dallas didn't run the ball more last Sunday.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Regardless of which RB's you would or would not give for Foster, I wouldn't make any trade for Foster until after next week where the odds are pretty good that he will score less than this week. It would be very foolish to buy in at the peak value. Not saying he won't be great all year, just saying this is the worst time to buy. A little patience goes a long way.

No one is expecting him to duplicate week 1. However, if he has merely a good game (as opposed to an outstanding one like vs the colts), then I think his value goes up. I think there is a reasonable chance of that happening.

Washington's run D seems a bit better test then Indy's.. Will be interesting to see how the game plan might change.

I agree that this is the worst time to pick up Foster. But I'm not sure how good Washington's run D is. Dallas' two best RBs only had 16 carries combined, but they cut through the Redskins' run D like butter:M. Barber: 8 carries for 39 yeards, a 4.9 ypc averageF. Jones: 8 carries for 38 yards, a 4.8 ypc averageReally, makes you wonder why Dallas didn't run the ball more last Sunday.

Dallas also had two scrubs on the offensive line.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

I'm a 'Skins fan. The NT situation is unsettled and probably THE defensive weakness, and Carter and Orakpo are natural DE's who are new at the OLB postions and therefore at making plays in space. Without a solid NT, the entire defense is at risk, particularly on running plays. I think the Texans will be able to run on them absent a dramatic (and unexpected) turnaround in that defense by week 2.

Edit- and yes, Garrett's an idiot for not calling more running plays.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I'm a 'Skins fan. The NT situation is unsettled and probably THE defensive weakness, and Carter and Orakpo are natural DE's who are new at the OLB postions and therefore at making plays in space. Without a solid NT, the entire defense is at risk, particularly on running plays. I think the Texans will be able to run on them absent a dramatic (and unexpected) turnaround in that defense by week 2.

Edit- and yes, Garrett's an idiot for not calling more running plays.

This is bad coaching. I understand that Dallas has a ton of weapons at receiver. But it seems egotistical to go with the passing game that's still a work in progress when their running game is doing so well.

 

[chem]

Foster or Pierre Thomas the rest of the way?

 

[Nightly Mistake]

I'm a 'Skins fan. The NT situation is unsettled and probably THE defensive weakness, and Carter and Orakpo are natural DE's who are new at the OLB postions and therefore at making plays in space. Without a solid NT, the entire defense is at risk, particularly on running plays. I think the Texans will be able to run on them absent a dramatic (and unexpected) turnaround in that defense by week 2.

Edit- and yes, Garrett's an idiot for not calling more running plays.

This is bad coaching. I understand that Dallas has a ton of weapons at receiver. But it seems egotistical to go with the passing game that's still a work in progress when their running game is doing so well.

Agreed. Garrett and Reid stand alone in this regard. It's amazing to watch and I know it's maddening for fans of those teams.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I noticed something in the week 2 upgrades/downgrades s

"He is now a must start in all formats as the Texans can be expected to give him the ball often now that they seem to finally have found a decent running back."

How much of a must start? Against Washington? Im curious what others think about this. I have other good options at RB and I dont want to make this a WDIS question. Just tell me your thoughts about the "Must Start" label.

I'd start him as a top 10 back..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Typically it's up to the individual who alleges something to prove it, not the other way around. If i say you have a history of being a thief, then it really shouldn't be up to you to prove your innocence, but up to me to prove your guilt. I would need to link to arrests, convictions, etc.

I don't have to prove anything, to anyone, I'm here trying to figure the situation out, not trying to prove anyone wrong or right. Get to the point of the forum. This forum was constructed to share opinions and information...

I'd really like if someone would share a link where we can see all of Foster's college stats, including the fumbles. Because I've not been able to find it.

Finding stats on college fumbles is very difficult, although it still makes sense to look before regurgitating nicknames IMO. I've looked at a bunch of different sites, including going back into individual box scores from games, but they don't list the fumbles for some reason. The stats I quoted are from this profile:Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange

Tendency to Fumble: Foster has 11 fumbles on 650 career carries, with just four of those miscues resulting in turnovers. He can carry the ball in either arm and secures it well when going through traffic. Even when he puts the ball on the ground, he has the vision to locate and recover it. He can handle pitch-outs and does a nice job of extending for the ball when working out of the backfield as a receiver. GRADE: 6.2

I added his reception totals to get the 733 touches, which I assume is accurate but don't know for sure. I'm guessing they put his total fumbles, not just fumbles on rushing attempts, but this is the only place I've seen an actual number quoted. Even if you only want to use 11 on 650, it's not horrible. FYI, that "Tendency to Fumble" grade of 6.2 is well above his overall grade of 5.72 (according to this report).

I've followed Foster since college, my good friend is a big Tennessee fan, and we've had this discussion dozens of times. He got the "nickname" due to a couple of untimely fumbles (one of which wasn't even his fault according to your Wiki link), not because of the volume of fumbles. I'm not saying he's never fumbled, just that his "problem" is way overblown. Likewise, Kubiak's "reputation" is way overblown too, having him as a coach is actually a pretty big positive for a RB IMO. I think I've backed up my claims with factual evidence in this thread, while pretty much every one on the other side just keeps throwing out nicknames and reputations without any actual evidence to back it up whatsoever.

Do you have a link to the above quote? I was sure I looked at NFLdraftscout. I must have missed a page..

 

[humpback]

I'm telling you, this stuff is hard to find . It's via CBS- ton's of info. in here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/518611

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm telling you, this stuff is hard to find . It's via CBS- ton's of info. in here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/518611

I wonder if that number takes into account fumbles that occurred while receiving, or while on kick returns... 11 fumbles hardly deserves the reputation of a fumbler... Hard for me to believe the name "Fumbling Foster" is based on 11 career fumbles.Kudos to you for finding that. Based on how long I looked and read, trying to find the answer, I bet you spent a bit of time there... I started going through all of the box scores, but could only find defensive stats on fumbles. I considered going play by play, but I thought better of it... It really doesn't mean that much to me.

 

[humpback]

I'm telling you, this stuff is hard to find . It's via CBS- ton's of info. in here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/518611

I wonder if that number takes into account fumbles that occurred while receiving, or while on kick returns... 11 fumbles hardly deserves the reputation of a fumbler... Hard for me to believe the name "Fumbling Foster" is based on 11 career fumbles.Kudos to you for finding that. Based on how long I looked and read, trying to find the answer, I bet you spent a bit of time there... I started going through all of the box scores, but could only find defensive stats on fumbles. I considered going play by play, but I thought better of it... It really doesn't mean that much to me.

Like I said, I looked all over trying to find the actual numbers (not just recently mind you), and this is the only place I've found them. That's kind of my point though- reputations aren't always deserved, and you should probably do a lot more digging before forming a strong opinion. The reason he got that nickname wasn't because of the number of fumbles, it was because a couple of them came at very bad times. Probably the biggest one was in that game vs. Florida, but that was a botched hand off, which wasn't really his fault. People take things and run with it, so the "Fumbling Foster" misnomer grew. Personaly, I would have less of a problem with "choke artist" than I would will "Fumbling Foster". Same thing with Kubiak's "reputation"- if you actually dig deep into the evidence, it is different from the perception.

 

[The Dynasty]

Heard a guy on the Cowboys radio post game show call him Arian "Nation" Foster

 

[timschochet]

There is not a single player I would trade Arian Foster for. I might, of course, feel differently in a few weeks, but right now I believe he will end up this year as the MVP of fantasy football.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

There is not a single player I would trade Arian Foster for. I might, of course, feel differently in a few weeks, but right now I believe he will end up this year as the MVP of fantasy football.

+1Priest Holmes esque

 

[Chairshot]

I traded Foster and Naanee for Fitzgerald and Beanie before the Week 3 games.

Not feeling too great about that now...

 

[kinghill]

Unfortunately I don't have this guy on any of my rosters, but for those that do, I think you'll be riding him to a championship like I did Domanick Davis (Williams) in 2004.

 

[Judge Smails]

Unfortunately I don't have this guy on any of my rosters, but for those that do, I think you'll be riding him to a championship like I did Domanick Davis (Williams) in 2004.

I think the great majority of his owners will get to the playoffs - just not too sure about his matchups once they get there.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

 

[Concept Coop]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

 

[Koya]

Unfortunately I don't have this guy on any of my rosters, but for those that do, I think you'll be riding him to a championship like I did Domanick Davis (Williams) in 2004.

I think the great majority of his owners will get to the playoffs - just not too sure about his matchups once they get there.

Good point here, so lets discuss.Week 14: Its Baltimore, but home in Houston. Most important of all, these are not all time Baltimore Defensive Teams - not yet at least. Will Reed be able to return and make a difference? Lets remember, in two weeks you have had 100+ and a score from Hillis and 80 yards and two scores from Mendhenhall. Both on teams without so much as an option passing. Week 15: Tenn in Tenn. This could be a tough game. Tenn is a tough, physical team and will be at home. Probably the game I am most concerned about - but if Houston can keep clicking and AJ is healed by then, not necessarily the end of the world. Week 16: At Denver. Im not worried here, could be a high scoring day and a good one for Arian - for those able to get past week 15.Week 17: For those who have Championships in Week 17, Jax is hardly scary, especially considering they are just out of it.So yes, a tougher than average road. If Baltimore rounds into form, it could be really tough early going but unless you get a boatload in return for AF in a trade, or get ADP, what is recommended?

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

Not predicting his actual production is one thing. Calling him too slow, etc., and being completely 100% wrong about his physical attributes is something else. Go back and reread the earlier comments by many people.

 

[mdlane]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

What's the point? As of week 4, he's untradable - it's not as though I'm going to hand over an established performing talent like AP for Foster, and it's not as though Foster owners are going to settle for anything less. So we'll all have to take a seat and see if Foster can keep his head on straight for a full season. I got burned by him last year when he fumbled the ball at the goal line on the first series and was benched for the entire game during championship week. I still think that Foster, mixed with Kubiak, is a potential time bomb situation that can go off and disrupt seasons at any point. So now we can all sit back and see if he can maintain this unabashed success for 16 weeks.

 

[Koya]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

What's the point? As of week 4, he's untradable - it's not as though I'm going to hand over an established performing talent like AP for Foster, and it's not as though Foster owners are going to settle for anything less. So we'll all have to take a seat and see if Foster can keep his head on straight for a full season. I got burned by him last year when he fumbled the ball at the goal line on the first series and was benched for the entire game during championship week. I still think that Foster, mixed with Kubiak, is a potential time bomb situation that can go off and disrupt seasons at any point. So now we can all sit back and see if he can maintain this unabashed success for 16 weeks.

I dont necessarily agree. Yes, all things being equal, ADP owners wont bite and Foster owners wont likely take much (anything?) less... but if a team is desperate for a WR, would Gore plus a good WR warrant a trade? Or mendenhall? you get my drift.What about a 2QB league. Someone may have Foster taken in the 6th round, and as such has ADP and Mendenhall - but is really hurting as D. Anderson and Kolb won't cut it at QB. Foster in a deal for Manning? I'd trade foster in such a situation.

 

[Concept Coop]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

Not predicting his actual production is one thing. Calling him too slow, etc., and being completely 100% wrong about his physical attributes is something else. Go back and reread the earlier comments by many people.

No need to go back and read it. Derrick Ward, who looked like an average COLLEGE runningback in Tampa, was able to do what Foster has been doing all year. Foster is not slow, quite the opposite for his size, actually - good burst too. But he lacks wiggle, is not great at breaking tackles, has average vision and balance, and runs upright. He is a good NFL running back. But there are a lot of good RBs in the NFL. He is not a special talent. He is just in a special situation. Redraft gold; dynasty fool's gold.

 

[I Love Your Fantasy Team]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Message Board INFORCER.

 

[Koya]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Message Board INFORCER.

WTF is an INforcer?

 

[I Love Your Fantasy Team]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Message Board INFORCER.

WTF is an INforcer?

It's like an ENFORCER, but with an 'i' = iNFORCER

 

[GregR_2]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

Not predicting his actual production is one thing. Calling him too slow, etc., and being completely 100% wrong about his physical attributes is something else. Go back and reread the earlier comments by many people.

No need to go back and read it. Derrick Ward, who looked like an average COLLEGE runningback in Tampa, was able to do what Foster has been doing all year. Foster is not slow, quite the opposite for his size, actually - good burst too. But he lacks wiggle, is not great at breaking tackles, has average vision and balance, and runs upright. He is a good NFL running back. But there are a lot of good RBs in the NFL. He is not a special talent. He is just in a special situation. Redraft gold; dynasty fool's gold.

I've said from before the season started that the Texans O-line was playing well in the running game and was going to be a big part of Foster's success.But though I agree with you that he's in a great situation... average vision? Duuuuuuuuude......

He probably is amongst the elite RBs in the NFL in terms of vision and patience. It's his best attribute and it's obvious in spades if you watch him play. I don't think I've seen a game yet where the announcers weren't discussing it, it is so obvious. It's obvious in the way that "Barry Sanders is elusive" is obvious if you've ever watched him play.

I'll also add that he has shown a lot more wiggle than people give him credit for. A lot more than I thought he had before preseason started. You can see it in quite a few of his runs, but it really stands out in in a few examples. The play against the Colts he had defenders in the backfield as soon as he got the ball, and made 3 sick jump cuts in turning a several yard loss into a 5 yard gain. The long gain on the play to the left against the Raiders where he made two different defenders whiff air in the open field and picked up another 20 or so yards as a result.

I don't think he's the second coming of Walter Payton by any means. But if you think he's not got any special talents, or if you think Derrick Ward is a comparable RB with him, you haven't been watching him. He's showing himself to be above average in most categories, including wiggle and moving the pile, and elite when it comes to vision and patience. The single biggest difference between he and Slaton/Ward is that the latter run into the backs of their own linemen while Foster almost always lets the play set up and makes the right decision when a hole shows itself. When I try to think of a RB to compare with him in regard to vision and patience, Marshall Faulk is the player that he reminds me of the most.

 

[DLR]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

Not predicting his actual production is one thing. Calling him too slow, etc., and being completely 100% wrong about his physical attributes is something else. Go back and reread the earlier comments by many people.

No need to go back and read it. Derrick Ward, who looked like an average COLLEGE runningback in Tampa, was able to do what Foster has been doing all year. Foster is not slow, quite the opposite for his size, actually - good burst too. But he lacks wiggle, is not great at breaking tackles, has average vision and balance, and runs upright. He is a good NFL running back. But there are a lot of good RBs in the NFL. He is not a special talent. He is just in a special situation. Redraft gold; dynasty fool's gold.

I've said from before the season started that the Texans O-line was playing well in the running game and was going to be a big part of Foster's success.But though I agree with you that he's in a great situation... average vision? Duuuuuuuuude......

He probably is amongst the elite RBs in the NFL in terms of vision and patience. It's his best attribute and it's obvious in spades if you watch him play. I don't think I've seen a game yet where the announcers weren't discussing it, it is so obvious. It's obvious in the way that "Barry Sanders is elusive" is obvious if you've ever watched him play.

I'll also add that he has shown a lot more wiggle than people give him credit for. A lot more than I thought he had before preseason started. You can see it in quite a few of his runs, but it really stands out in in a few examples. The play against the Colts he had defenders in the backfield as soon as he got the ball, and made 3 sick jump cuts in turning a several yard loss into a 5 yard gain. The long gain on the play to the left against the Raiders where he made two different defenders whiff air in the open field and picked up another 20 or so yards as a result.

I don't think he's the second coming of Walter Payton by any means. But if you think he's not got any special talents, or if you think Derrick Ward is a comparable RB with him, you haven't been watching him. He's showing himself to be above average in most categories, including wiggle and moving the pile, and elite when it comes to vision and patience. The single biggest difference between he and Slaton/Ward is that the latter run into the backs of their own linemen while Foster almost always lets the play set up and makes the right decision when a hole shows itself. When I try to think of a RB to compare with him in regard to vision and patience, Marshall Faulk is the player that he reminds me of the most.

Truth.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Any Foster haters care to chime in now?

Austin Collie Haters chime in too. LT haters, where are you guys? Everyone that didn't know that Kyle Orton would be tearing it up, you need to admit that you were wrong! And those that questioned Zack Miller and Aaron Hernandez...you should be ashamed.

Not predicting his actual production is one thing. Calling him too slow, etc., and being completely 100% wrong about his physical attributes is something else. Go back and reread the earlier comments by many people.

No need to go back and read it. Derrick Ward, who looked like an average COLLEGE runningback in Tampa, was able to do what Foster has been doing all year. Foster is not slow, quite the opposite for his size, actually - good burst too. But he lacks wiggle, is not great at breaking tackles, has average vision and balance, and runs upright. He is a good NFL running back. But there are a lot of good RBs in the NFL. He is not a special talent. He is just in a special situation. Redraft gold; dynasty fool's gold.

Yeah right. A cut-back runner has poor vision. I guess Emmitt was legally blind, right?

 

[Concept Coop]

I've said from before the season started that the Texans O-line was playing well in the running game and was going to be a big part of Foster's success.

But though I agree with you that he's in a great situation... average vision? Duuuuuuuuude......

He probably is amongst the elite RBs in the NFL in terms of vision and patience. It's his best attribute and it's obvious in spades if you watch him play. I don't think I've seen a game yet where the announcers weren't discussing it, it is so obvious. It's obvious in the way that "Barry Sanders is elusive" is obvious if you've ever watched him play.

I'll also add that he has shown a lot more wiggle than people give him credit for. A lot more than I thought he had before preseason started. You can see it in quite a few of his runs, but it really stands out in in a few examples. The play against the Colts he had defenders in the backfield as soon as he got the ball, and made 3 sick jump cuts in turning a several yard loss into a 5 yard gain. The long gain on the play to the left against the Raiders where he made two different defenders whiff air in the open field and picked up another 20 or so yards as a result.

I don't think he's the second coming of Walter Payton by any means. But if you think he's not got any special talents, or if you think Derrick Ward is a comparable RB with him, you haven't been watching him. He's showing himself to be above average in most categories, including wiggle and moving the pile, and elite when it comes to vision and patience. The single biggest difference between he and Slaton/Ward is that the latter run into the backs of their own linemen while Foster almost always lets the play set up and makes the right decision when a hole shows itself. When I try to think of a RB to compare with him in regard to vision and patience, Marshall Faulk is the player that he reminds me of the most.

"If I've ever watched him play"...come down off the high-horse, Texan fan. And please put the Marshall Faulk Comparison away. You sound silly accusing me of having never watched this guy play, then comparing him to one of the best RBs of all time. Please tell me how they are comparable. Because (in 6 games) you are of the opinion he is good at waiting for his blocks...in a zone blocking scheme? Is that kind of like being a good at getting open with Peyton Manning throwing you the ball? "Arian, our lineman are going to stretch block, and double to the left. This will create a cut back lane right. Use your great vision!"

When has he shown great vision? Great vision is displayed when you get yards that aren't there for other runningbacks. When does Arian do that? If he has great vision, then most backs in the old Denver days did too. He does a good job getting to the hole, getting his pads square and running down hill. He does a good job of feeling the cutback lane too. But that does not require great vision in most cases, especially against the Colts, Raiders, and Cowboys, when they are worried about Andre.

This past week is the only game of his that I haven't watched every snap. There is nothing about him I would call elite, but I am not a Texan fan, so of course you will have a different opinion. And based on the numbers, you want to know the ONLY difference between Ward and Foster? Foster's stroll to the endzone was longer than Ward's. Foster showed good speed, which you will see I have given him credit for, but most NFL RBs make that play.

 

[Concept Coop]

Yeah right. A cut-back runner has poor vision. I guess Emmitt was legally blind, right?

What? What does Emmitt Smith have to do with anything? Please tell me you are not comparing them. A cut-back runner? You mean a runningback in a zone blocking scheme? Maybe you should Google or Wiki "Zone Blocking". Foster cuts back because the offense he plays in is designed to create cutback lanes. You are acually making an argument against Foster having great vision by mentioning the zone blocking.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Yeah right. A cut-back runner has poor vision. I guess Emmitt was legally blind, right?

What? A cut-back runner? You mean a runningback in a zone blocking scheme? Maybe you should Google or Wiki "Zone Blocking". Foster cuts back because the offense he plays in is designed to create cutback lanes. You are acually making an argument against Foster having great vision by mentioning the zone blocking.

So you're telling me that a guy who is supposed to find cut-back lanes from any number of potential developing gaps doesn't have good vision? I believe it's you who needs some education. I know it's tough to accept that your team is the second best in its own state, but deal with it. This isn't making you look good, Don Quixote.

 

[Concept Coop]

Yeah right. A cut-back runner has poor vision. I guess Emmitt was legally blind, right?

What? A cut-back runner? You mean a runningback in a zone blocking scheme? Maybe you should Google or Wiki "Zone Blocking". Foster cuts back because the offense he plays in is designed to create cutback lanes. You are acually making an argument against Foster having great vision by mentioning the zone blocking.

So you're telling me that a guy who is supposed to find cut-back lanes from any number of potential developing gaps doesn't have good vision? I believe it's you who needs some education. I know it's tough to accept that your team is the second best in its own state, but deal with it. This isn't making you look good, Don Quixote.

2nd best? Who won the game? Who dominated the game actually? Who has made the playoffs?You don't understand. In a zone blocking scheme, your cutback lanes are designed into the play. That is different than being in space and making a cut back based on your vision.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Yeah right. A cut-back runner has poor vision. I guess Emmitt was legally blind, right?

What? A cut-back runner? You mean a runningback in a zone blocking scheme? Maybe you should Google or Wiki "Zone Blocking". Foster cuts back because the offense he plays in is designed to create cutback lanes. You are acually making an argument against Foster having great vision by mentioning the zone blocking.

So you're telling me that a guy who is supposed to find cut-back lanes from any number of potential developing gaps doesn't have good vision? I believe it's you who needs some education. I know it's tough to accept that your team is the second best in its own state, but deal with it. This isn't making you look good, Don Quixote.

2nd best? Who won the game? Who dominated the game actually? Who has made the playoffs?You don't understand. In a zone blocking scheme, your cutback lanes are designed into the play. That is different than being in space and making a cut back based on your vision.

Exactly.

 

[Concept Coop]

Exactly.

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly.

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

In man blocking the running-back knows exactly where the hole will be before the snap. He takes the ball full speed ahead, no thinking, no hesitation, and no adjustments. The scheme is great for down-hill runners, and though useful, vision is not needed.

The ZBS, on the other hand, requires a little more from the running back, at least in a mental aspect, since the hole is dictated by the defense's actions at the snap of the ball. The running back not only has to be able to see how blocking develops, but be able to make the correct decision on where to go, and he has to do it without hesitation.

Link

 

[Herm23]

I posted this in the Houston RBBC thread, but this may be a better place for it, so posting it here.

The reality of the situation is that in rare circumstances, you do NOT have to be an elite, top 3 talent to PLAY like an elite, top 3 talent. Arian Foster reminds me eerily of another player who I never felt was an elite talent but played better than anyone in football over his dominant run- Priest Holmes. In certain situations, a system can HELP a player, but that system can play so perfectly into the player's wheelhouse that he takes the opportunity and runs with it to a much greater extent than anyone else could. In other words, at times, a system can ALLOW a player to play at an elite, top 3 level despite the fact that he wouldn't play at nearly the same level anywhere else. While the system may be the basis for his success, it is entirely possible that the system maximizes the player's specific skillset to the point that he is able to play at a greater level than other players that may be "more talented".

To use an analogy, let's say I'm great at drawing cirles, but below average at drawing squares. If I had a job that forced me to draw both circle and squares, I would perfrom at a decent level, but would not excel. If I had a job that forced me to draw only squares, I would be below average. However, if I had a job that allowed me to draw only circles, I would become one of the elite members of the workforce, as it plays to my specific skillset. Meanwhile, another employee may in fact be BETTER at drawing then me, but not quite as good at drawing circles specifically. If I were at a job that maximized my ability to draw circles, I would in fact be capable of performing better than my co-worker...despite the fact that he is a better drawer!

Sometimes, systems fit a player PERFECTLY. This was the case with Priest, as I don't think he would have faired NEARLY as well in essentially any other offense in the NFL. Some players make their own space, but don't do as well when the space is given to them. Conversely, some players can't turn nothing into something, but are superb when the holes are there for them. Not everyone is an other-wordly, transcendent talent like Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc..., who are capable of doing both. Did Priest benefit greatly from the offense, coach, etc... in place? Sure. That being said, I'm not sure any other running back in the NFL would have faired as well as Priest did in his situation, as it absolutely played right into his exact skillset. It's rare, but it does happen and I think we have the potential makings of this very thing with Foster and Houston.

I began by thinking Foster was a flash in the pan who was doomed to die a painfull fantasy death at the hand of Gary Kubiak, if not this year then next. However, one play in particular yesterday changed my mind. It was a simple 3rd quarter swing pass that he caught in the left flat. He was one on one with a defender, juked, left the defender standing, showed extremely impressive burst to get the corner, turned up field, and then showed impressive vision by making a cutback. In the end, what should have been a 5 yard gain turned into 31. In my mind, that turned Foster from simply a product of the system to a player with the POTENTIAL to turn into the next Priest Holmes (note that I said POTENTIAL. There is still a long, long way to go before he gets to that point). Normal system backs don't look as good as he has looked while benefiting from the system- it HAS to go beyond just the system, at least from what my eyeball test is telling me. In dynasty, I STILL think the smart and safe move is to sell high if you can get legit top 5 talent for him, but I no longer think that it is that far fetched to believe he can maintain this into the forseeable future. Once upon of time, you could essentially have replaced Arian Foster's name with Priest Holmes and had this exact same debate. We all know how well that turned out for everyone saying to sell him...

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly.

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

The result of this system is that it creates holes and cutback lanes anywhere, and those holes tend to be fairly small and only open for brief amounts of time. As such, its of utmost importance that the runner have great vision, running instincts, burst (conspicuous acceleration), tackle breaking ability and decisiveness.

Link

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly. :X

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

1. the back side guard wont have the time to decide that he cant overtake and possibly get all the way to the front side ILB or mike and have an angle to block him. Now he could try and block him into the zone or the power serge as alot of zone blocking coaches call it and rely on the backs vision to cut it back, however our dl is now being zone blocked away from the play 1 on 1 if the back cuts back he will be in a world of hurt. plus our backside ILB is always slow to go for cut backs just the way any good 3-4 team does it when the nose is 2 gapping.

Link

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly. :X

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

A "1C" is a runner (he can be either powerful or fast) who starts to run in one direction, and when he sees a hole open up in the defense he cuts back to that opening and runs in a straight line. . . . But 1Cs must have patience and vision. They must be able to run towards the direction of the play, have the vision to not commit until the see an opening, and the discipline to make "one cut" towards the hole and to stick with it. They must also have the confidence to pick a hole, since the coordinator doesn't pick it for him, but rather it is based off a read or series of reads.

Link

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly. :X

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

#2) has the vision to see the hole. A lot of times a RB will run right past the hole because they don’t see the lineman break away to the second level. This usually results in a loss of yards. The RB needs to understand the scheme and know where the Double team is going to be and watch for the lineman that breaks away.

Link

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly. :X

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

While this organized chaos is occurring, the running back in the system that Dennison, Turner and company were supposedly running will create what are called cut-back lanes. The running back has to do two things at once, and they are polar opposites. He has to wait until a lane develops (if he doesn't, everyone knows. He looks like he's trying to find his girlfriend in a crowd of other athletes). Or, he needs to make a single cut into or through a hole and to get quickly into the second level. It's not an easy skill to learn and a lot of running backs just aren't cut out for it. It's also true that you are usually cutting back 'against the grain' of the play.

But if it works, when it works, there are great lanes that go backward, 'against the grain'. It's the RB's job to find that crease, and to hit it at exactly the perfect moment since such holes open and close quickly; at times, almost immediately.

Link

 

[Concept Coop]

Exactly. :X

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

The result of this system is that it creates holes and cutback lanes anywhere, and those holes tend to be fairly small and only open for brief amounts of time. As such, its of utmost importance that the runner have great vision, running instincts, burst (conspicuous acceleration), tackle breaking ability and decisiveness.

Link

The system creats holes and cutback lanes. Did you read that part? The System. Creates. Holes and Cutback lanes. The System.I know what a zone blocking scheme is. An article explaining it to those that don't, is of no value to our conversation. The strengths listed are not more valuable in a zone blocking scheme, other than decisiveness. Unless your game plan is to push pile 4 yards by running into the lineman's back, ala goal line runs, you need all of those stregnths regardless of the scheme your are running. And the article provided does nothing to suggest that Arian Foster is elite at any of those things. Unless it also suggests the same about Tatum bell and Mike Anderson.

 

[GregR_2]

I've said from before the season started that the Texans O-line was playing well in the running game and was going to be a big part of Foster's success.

But though I agree with you that he's in a great situation... average vision? Duuuuuuuuude...... :X

He probably is amongst the elite RBs in the NFL in terms of vision and patience. It's his best attribute and it's obvious in spades if you watch him play. I don't think I've seen a game yet where the announcers weren't discussing it, it is so obvious. It's obvious in the way that "Barry Sanders is elusive" is obvious if you've ever watched him play.

I'll also add that he has shown a lot more wiggle than people give him credit for. A lot more than I thought he had before preseason started. You can see it in quite a few of his runs, but it really stands out in in a few examples. The play against the Colts he had defenders in the backfield as soon as he got the ball, and made 3 sick jump cuts in turning a several yard loss into a 5 yard gain. The long gain on the play to the left against the Raiders where he made two different defenders whiff air in the open field and picked up another 20 or so yards as a result.

I don't think he's the second coming of Walter Payton by any means. But if you think he's not got any special talents, or if you think Derrick Ward is a comparable RB with him, you haven't been watching him. He's showing himself to be above average in most categories, including wiggle and moving the pile, and elite when it comes to vision and patience. The single biggest difference between he and Slaton/Ward is that the latter run into the backs of their own linemen while Foster almost always lets the play set up and makes the right decision when a hole shows itself. When I try to think of a RB to compare with him in regard to vision and patience, Marshall Faulk is the player that he reminds me of the most.

"If I've ever watched him play"...come down off the high-horse, Texan fan. And please put the Marshall Faulk Comparison away. You sound silly accusing me of having never watched this guy play, then comparing him to one of the best RBs of all time. Please tell me how they are comparable. ...

Just how much clearer do you need me to get in what aspects I said was comparable between them when I said "When I try to think of a RB to compare with him in regard to vision and patience..."?

Because (in 6 games) you are of the opinion he is good at waiting for his blocks...in a zone blocking scheme? Is that kind of like being a good at getting open with Peyton Manning throwing you the ball? "Arian, our lineman are going to stretch block, and double to the left. This will create a cut back lane right. Use your great vision!"

When has he shown great vision? Great vision is displayed when you get yards that aren't there for other runningbacks. When does Arian do that? If he has great vision, then most backs in the old Denver days did too. He does a good job getting to the hole, getting his pads square and running down hill. He does a good job of feeling the cutback lane too. But that does not require great vision in most cases, especially against the Colts, Raiders, and Cowboys, when they are worried about Andre.

This past week is the only game of his that I haven't watched every snap. There is nothing about him I would call elite, but I am not a Texan fan, so of course you will have a different opinion. And based on the numbers, you want to know the ONLY difference between Ward and Foster? Foster's stroll to the endzone was longer than Ward's. Foster showed good speed, which you will see I have given him credit for, but most NFL RBs make that play.

Yes, he's BETTER at waiting for his blocks and reading where to make his cut.

I don't know what I can say to you if you've watched the first 3 Texans games and haven't seen his vision and patience, and noticed how it compares to Slaton who you'd have seen in those games If you haven't heard the announcers talking about it. All I can do is point you to all the people who see it that you don't. Let's just do a simple little sample. Google for: Arian Foster vision ... and let's see what we get.

Link 1: "Three different plays that show Arian Foster's excellent vision"

Link 2: "Foster's vision and ability to make the backside cut is fantastic"

Link 3: "Vision" is from an advertisement, not related to Foster.

Link 4: "It's second-year running back Arian Foster who has them burning up ... He's got great, great vision"

Link 5: "Arian Foster was great yesterday as well running with speed, power, and great vision."

Link 6: "in the context of "look how much better Arian Foster's vision is than Steve Slaton's""

Link 7&8: repeat of link 1 video

Link 9: "WHAT I SAW FROM THE HIGH-LIGHTS OF ARIAN FOSTER WAS THAT HE HAS GREAT VISION AND FOLLOWED HIS BLOCKING WITH DECEPTIVE"

Link 10: "I've often said that if you could combine Montario Hardesty's burst with Arian Foster's vision and intangibles"

Link 11: "Strong back with good size, patience and vision. However, runs very upright"

Link 12: (from Scout.com incidentally) "His vision is unbelievable and has great shiftness and quickness"

Page after page it goes on. No one saying he has just average, adequate, or any other mediocre descriptive when discussing how good of vision he has. Obviously I'm not the only one who has seen it. The link from an actual scouting service calls his vision "unbelievable".

 

[Nightly Mistake]

Exactly.

You still don't get it. But that is okay.

Educate yourself, Grasshopper.

One aspect that the Cardinals don't have to worry about though is if Edge can flourish in a zone blocking scheme. He's not only been highly successful in the system in the past but he's possibly even more suited to it now. Edge has never been particularly fast but always been quick and had excellent vision, two things that are vital in a "one cut and go" system like the zone.

Link

 

[Nightly Mistake]

The system creats holes and cutback lanes. Did you read that part? The System. Creates. Holes and Cutback lanes. The System.I know what a zone blocking scheme is. An article explaining it to those that don't, is of no value to our conversation. The strengths listed are not more valuable in a zone blocking scheme, other than decisiveness. Unless your game plan is to push pile 4 yards by running into the lineman's back, ala goal line runs, you need all of those stregnths regardless of the scheme your are running. And the article provided does nothing to suggest that Arian Foster is elite at any of those things. Unless it also suggests the same about Tatum bell and Mike Anderson.

Yes, the system. As opposed to what? Disorganized chaos? This ain't pee wee football, son. Every NFL team has a system. And we're talking about the RB's vision. Stay on point. This scheme requires good vision, and Arian Foster has it. End of story.

 

[Concept Coop]

The system creats holes and cutback lanes. Did you read that part? The System. Creates. Holes and Cutback lanes. The System.I know what a zone blocking scheme is. An article explaining it to those that don't, is of no value to our conversation. The strengths listed are not more valuable in a zone blocking scheme, other than decisiveness. Unless your game plan is to push pile 4 yards by running into the lineman's back, ala goal line runs, you need all of those stregnths regardless of the scheme your are running. And the article provided does nothing to suggest that Arian Foster is elite at any of those things. Unless it also suggests the same about Tatum bell and Mike Anderson.

Yes, the system. As opposed to what? Disorganized chaos? This ain't pee wee football, son. Every NFL team has a system. And we're talking about the RB's vision. Stay on point. This scheme requires good vision, and Arian Foster has it. End of story.

It does not require great vision. It sets up cutback lanes for you. That is different than seeing your own natural cutbacks in space, which is what backs with great vision do. And if a silly article aimed at those that don't know what a zone blocking scheme is, suggests that Arian Foster has great vision, does it not do the same for every RB that has EVER played in the system? Your argument, if based off of this article, is moot; completely moot.