timschochet
Footballguy
Great news. Very predictable, though.
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Arizona passes nation's toughest immigration law (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
PHOENIX — A federal judge on Wednesday blocked the most controversial parts of Arizona's immigration law from taking effect, delivering a last-minute victory to opponents of the crackdown.
The overall law will still take effect Thursday, but without the provisions that angered opponents — including sections that required officers to check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws.
The judge also put on hold parts of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places. In addition, the judge blocked officers from making warrantless arrests of suspected illegal immigrants.
"Requiring Arizona law enforcement officials and agencies to determine the immigration status of every person who is arrested burdens lawfully-present aliens because their liberty will be restricted while their status is checked," U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton ruled.
She ruled that the controversial sections should be put on hold until the courts resolve the issues. Other provisions of the law, many of them procedural and slight revisions to existing Arizona immigration statute, will go into effect at 12:01 a.m.
The ruling came just as police were making last-minute preparations to begin enforcement of the law and protesters were planning large demonstrations to speak out against the measure. At least one group planned to block access to federal offices, daring officers to ask them about their immigration status.
The volume of the protests will likely be turned down a few notches because of the ruling by Bolton, a Clinton appointee who suddenly became a crucial figure in the immigration debate when she was assigned the seven lawsuits filed against the Arizona law.
Lawyers for the state contend the law was a constitutionally sound attempt by Arizona — the busiest illegal gateway into the country — to assist federal immigration agents and lessen border woes such as the heavy costs for educating, jailing and providing health care for illegal immigrants.
Opponents argued the law will lead to racial profiling, conflict with federal immigration law and distract local police from fighting more serious crimes. The U.S. Justice Department, civil rights groups and a Phoenix police officer had asked the judge for an injunction to prevent the law from being enforced.
"There is a substantial likelihood that officers will wrongfully arrest legal resident aliens under the new (law)," Bolton ruled. "By enforcing this statute, Arizona would impose a 'distinct, unusual and extraordinary' burden on legal resident aliens that only the federal government has the authority to impose."
The law was signed by Republican Gov. Jan Brewer in April and immediately revived the national debate on immigration, making it a hot-button issue in the midterm elections.
The law has inspired rallies in Arizona and elsewhere by advocates on both sides of the immigration debate. Some opponents have advocated a tourism boycott of Arizona.
It also led an unknown number of illegal immigrants to leave Arizona for other American states or their home countries.
Federal authorities who are trying to overturn the law have argued that letting the Arizona law stand would create a patchwork of immigration laws nationwide that would needlessly complicate the foreign relations of the United States. Federal lawyers said the law is disrupting U.S. relations with Mexico and other countries and would burden the agency that responds to immigration-status inquiries.
Brewer's lawyers said Arizona shouldn't have to suffer from America's broken immigration system when it has 15,000 police officers who can arrest illegal immigrants.
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The overall law will still take effect Thursday, but without the provisions that angered opponents — including sections that required officers to check a person's immigration status while enforcing other laws.
The judge also put on hold parts of the law that required immigrants to carry their papers at all times, and made it illegal for undocumented workers to solicit employment in public places. In addition, the judge blocked officers from making warrantless arrests of suspected illegal immigrants.
"Requiring Arizona law enforcement officials and agencies to determine the immigration status of every person who is arrested burdens lawfully-present aliens because their liberty will be restricted while their status is checked," U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton ruled.
She ruled that the controversial sections should be put on hold until the courts resolve the issues. Other provisions of the law, many of them procedural and slight revisions to existing Arizona immigration statute, will go into effect at 12:01 a.m.
The ruling came just as police were making last-minute preparations to begin enforcement of the law and protesters were planning large demonstrations to speak out against the measure. At least one group planned to block access to federal offices, daring officers to ask them about their immigration status.
The volume of the protests will likely be turned down a few notches because of the ruling by Bolton, a Clinton appointee who suddenly became a crucial figure in the immigration debate when she was assigned the seven lawsuits filed against the Arizona law.
Lawyers for the state contend the law was a constitutionally sound attempt by Arizona — the busiest illegal gateway into the country — to assist federal immigration agents and lessen border woes such as the heavy costs for educating, jailing and providing health care for illegal immigrants.
Opponents argued the law will lead to racial profiling, conflict with federal immigration law and distract local police from fighting more serious crimes. The U.S. Justice Department, civil rights groups and a Phoenix police officer had asked the judge for an injunction to prevent the law from being enforced.
"There is a substantial likelihood that officers will wrongfully arrest legal resident aliens under the new (law)," Bolton ruled. "By enforcing this statute, Arizona would impose a 'distinct, unusual and extraordinary' burden on legal resident aliens that only the federal government has the authority to impose."
The law was signed by Republican Gov. Jan Brewer in April and immediately revived the national debate on immigration, making it a hot-button issue in the midterm elections.
The law has inspired rallies in Arizona and elsewhere by advocates on both sides of the immigration debate. Some opponents have advocated a tourism boycott of Arizona.
It also led an unknown number of illegal immigrants to leave Arizona for other American states or their home countries.
Federal authorities who are trying to overturn the law have argued that letting the Arizona law stand would create a patchwork of immigration laws nationwide that would needlessly complicate the foreign relations of the United States. Federal lawyers said the law is disrupting U.S. relations with Mexico and other countries and would burden the agency that responds to immigration-status inquiries.
Brewer's lawyers said Arizona shouldn't have to suffer from America's broken immigration system when it has 15,000 police officers who can arrest illegal immigrants.
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videoguy505
Footballguy
No idea why this was even in the bill to begin with. So obviously unconstitutional that it had no chance of surviving.
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm trying to find an exact transcript of the ruling- if I find one I will post it here. If anyone else finds it first, please post it.
Card Trader
Footballguy
Sheriff Joe is still going to round up a bunch of these turds, he's said as much whether it was blocked or not. America is behind Arizona for the most part, this will cost the Dems dearly.
timschochet
Footballguy
Just curious, videoguy- why is this unconstitutional?
Socrates11
Footballguy
Arizona should ignore the judge's ruling and give her and the government the bird.
timschochet
Footballguy
As for the Dems, you're correct, I think- at least short-term. Long term, I still think you're wrong.As for Sherrif Joe, if he wants to look like more of an idiot than he already is (though that would be difficult) I suppose he can do this if he wants- until he is properly arrested himself for breaking the law.
Card Trader
Footballguy
You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
videoguy505
Footballguy
Supreme Court had previously ruled (in the mid-80s, IIRC, don't remember if I linked to it earlier in this thread) that employment solicitation was constitutionally protected free speech. They'd already struck down similar laws.
timschochet
Footballguy
The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
timschochet
Footballguy
Do all constitutional protections pertain to any person within the United States, whether citizen, tourist, illegal, etc?
Card Trader
Footballguy
You mean the main reason other than the bill? Arizona's construction economy and housing economy has suffered, but the tech economy is booming. (clearly these people can't get those jobs)So they are fleeing to Los Angeles because of the Phoenix economy? You are wildly confused.The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
Phurfur
Footballguy
Talk about not having a clue!
MekaLekaHiMekaHineyHo
Footballguy
If I were Arizona's AG, I would consider the federal government accomplices in any crimes committed by illegals and bring charges whenever possible. You enable someone to do the crime and you are just as guilty.
"Theft, robbery, vandalism and drug smuggling have always been part of illegal immigration in Cochise County, but murder is not something the cattle ranchers along the Arizona-Mexico border expected to happen to Robert Krentz.
Police say Krentz, whose family has been ranching in southern Arizona since 1907, was gunned down early Saturday morning by an illegal immigrant while out on his ATV tending to fences and water lines on the family's 34,000-acre cattle ranch."
In this case, the charge should be negligent homicide.
"Theft, robbery, vandalism and drug smuggling have always been part of illegal immigration in Cochise County, but murder is not something the cattle ranchers along the Arizona-Mexico border expected to happen to Robert Krentz.
Police say Krentz, whose family has been ranching in southern Arizona since 1907, was gunned down early Saturday morning by an illegal immigrant while out on his ATV tending to fences and water lines on the family's 34,000-acre cattle ranch."
In this case, the charge should be negligent homicide.
Card Trader
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You, sir, are a legal scholar of the highest order. Please explain to me how you, as Arizona's AG, would skillfully prosecute around the rather basic legal principle of sovereign immunity, let alone the litany of other enormous problems you would encounter.MekaLekaHiMekaHineyHo said:
I anxiously await the opportunity to drink from your fountain of legal knowledge.
Card Trader
Footballguy
THere have been a lot of news reports on it, as well as the school system reporting an extremely high number of pullouts in high Hispanic population areas.B-Deep said:
This may be the dumbest post you've ever made. Care to back it up? There have been numerous articles about the flight of illegals from AZ over the last few months, and the economy has rarely if ever been cited. I'd love for you to show differently though. Please link to just ONE article that says the economy is the reason illegals are fleeing AZ.timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
FavreCo
Footballguy
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100728/ap_on_...cal_enforcement
An estimated 10.8 million people, about 26 percent of the state's population, are living illegally in California.
You have got to be ####### kidding.
An estimated 10.8 million people, about 26 percent of the state's population, are living illegally in California.
You have got to be ####### kidding.
Here's just one article on the subject:http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/id...E66O1JY20100725B-Deep said:
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
The glut of empty houses.B-Deep said:
FavreCo
Footballguy
Good one. So did they all go to where the economy is booming?timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
timschochet
Footballguy
No, I'm not going to back it up. Can Card Trader back his assertions up? The only way to be sure is to have a poll of illegal immigrants, and that's not happening. But in general illegals go where there is an economic demand for them, so my comment here is, I believe, based on reason.This may be the dumbest post you've ever made. Care to back it up? There have been numerous articles about the flight of illegals from AZ over the last few months, and the economy has rarely if ever been cited. I'd love for you to show differently though. Please link to just ONE article that says the economy is the reason illegals are fleeing AZ.timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
timschochet
Footballguy
MekaLekaHiMekaHineyHo said:
Issue an immediate arrest warrant for Obama and Holder!
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm guessing, (and I'm betting there is data out there to back me up though I don't have it in front of me) that the overall number of illegal immigrants coming into this country has declined in the last couple of years due to the economy. And this is a terrible thing, IMO. The more illegals we have, the stronger our economy, and vice-versa.Good one. So did they all go to where the economy is booming?timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
You think our economy would be better is we had 500 million illegals in this country?I'm guessing, (and I'm betting there is data out there to back me up though I don't have it in front of me) that the overall number of illegal immigrants coming into this country has declined in the last couple of years due to the economy. And this is a terrible thing, IMO. The more illegals we have, the stronger our economy, and vice-versa.Good one. So did they all go to where the economy is booming?timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
Yeah, that's what I thought. And, for the record, I backed up the other side, the one that is obvious to everyone but you.
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No matter what side of the immigration debate anyone comes down on, I think we should all be able to agree that Sheriff Joe is an idiot.Card Trader said:
videoguy505
Footballguy
Nah, they're all crammed into the same 2-3 houses.
timschochet
Footballguy
If that ever happened that would indicate to me that:1. We had a much larger country than we do now (perhaps Mexico has been annexed by then)2. We are about 20-30 times richer than we are now.So the answer to your question is an emphatic yes.You think our economy would be better is we had 500 million illegals in this country?I'm guessing, (and I'm betting there is data out there to back me up though I don't have it in front of me) that the overall number of illegal immigrants coming into this country has declined in the last couple of years due to the economy. And this is a terrible thing, IMO. The more illegals we have, the stronger our economy, and vice-versa.Good one. So did they all go to where the economy is booming?timschochet said:The main reason they have left the srtate is because the economy has gone down. Hopefully, Arizona's economy will recover, at which time I predict your friends will return.Card Trader said:You think Sheriff Joe is an idiot, but many love him, he enforces laws...which is kind of nice for a Sheriff. Either way, many of these worthless people have already fled the State, and many more are leaving now, so it has had a positive outcome before it's even been started
Socrates11
Footballguy
If that were true the economy would still be going strong. The illegals didn't start heading back until the economy started to falter. Illegals don't make a strong economy, they're attracted to a strong economy, like moths to a flame.Of course, let's forget that the working illegals tend to send lots of money back to Mexico, while they and their dependents use welfare/health/educational systems that suck up tax dollars. But hey, corporations and contractors love them because they can pay them much less without worrying about offering them benefits.
So to sum up your position: Slave labor makes for a stronger economy!!
timschochet
Footballguy
Well I still hope your sources are wrong and this is not the reason. As I wrote, for my part I was only guessing. None of your information has statistical data, so I hope I'm still right about this. But it looks like I'm probably not.And if you are right and I am wrong about the reasons illegals are fleeing Arizona, this is hardly cause for celebration. It's cause for shame, IMO. You think it is good for your state that these people leave. I think you are dead wrong.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
lol...not all people arrested are guilty
timschochet
Footballguy
You raise an interesting point, and I have to admit it doesn't seem logical. Perhaps there's something I'm missing?
Actually, you never said you were guessing that the reason illegals are leaving was the economy. The thing you said you were guessing about was that the number of illegals coming here had declined. But I think we all know you're pretty much guessing about all of this. Too bad you pretend to be knowledgeable about so many topics but are all too often just "guessing".
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videoguy505
Footballguy
Another one for the reading comprehension file.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes, but if they're arrested, then their liberty is already restricted, at least until they appear in court, right? Therefore it makes no sense that a check on immigration status would restrict liberty if it is already restricted. Much as I hate to admit it (because we are on opposite sides of the overall issue) Christo makes a lot of sense here, and the judge does not.
Card Trader
Footballguy
No, I don't think it's "good", I think it's damn terrific. It's a major cause for celebration and I think we should have a Citizen Pride parade downtown.
timschochet
Footballguy
When I am guessing, I say so. My overall opinion on the advantages of illegals I have backed up in this thread with statistical data and studies. You can choose to disagree (most people do) but the information is there.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think you should.
26% of the people in your own state are illegals. How's that done for the economy there, chief?
timschochet
Footballguy
Our economy would be worse if they were gone. Our economy would be better if they were made legal.26% of the people in your own state are illegals. How's that done for the economy there, chief?
LAUNCH
Footballguy
Could the cops really be any slower? They can have you sit in your car for 20-30 minutes for a seat belt ticket.
How is that relevant to the liberty issue?
