Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
1) You should have re-raised PF with JJ, and holy god is this a loose game.2) Shove the 520 (eta: on the turn) and say gg if someone has AT/AJ/AA/rivers aces full.
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Assani's Poker Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Assani Fisher
- Start date
prefontaine
Footballguy
It's possible BB is making a stab at a really scary board. I've done that a time or two. No chance on UTG or UTG+1. The flat call worries me depending on how deep everyone at table is but there are too many combos you can beat that get involved here (TT, KQ, AK, AQ...doubt too many A-babies) to fold. Think you have to shove bc you only need about 25% equity here and you are going to be up against two AK/AQ a decent % of the time (the other you are drawing to 1 out vs AT). In that case you have to dodge only 9 outs on river so you have a ton of positive equity.
Sounds like you got in dead and that sucks but doesn't make it wrong. As far as what you did wrong. Nothing necessarily. Maybe you should 3 bet but that depends on table and dynamics and your play. Maybe you should have taken a stab on flop but that depends on table and dynamics and your play. Maybe you should fold on turn but that depends on table and dynamics and their play. Pretty hard do say you did anything wrong with the limited info.
Sounds like you got in dead and that sucks but doesn't make it wrong. As far as what you did wrong. Nothing necessarily. Maybe you should 3 bet but that depends on table and dynamics and your play. Maybe you should have taken a stab on flop but that depends on table and dynamics and your play. Maybe you should fold on turn but that depends on table and dynamics and their play. Pretty hard do say you did anything wrong with the limited info.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Thank you guys for the responses.
BF-Thank you for the step by step analysis.
GPJ- I actually didn't think this table was loose at all. When the money went in, there were usually a heck of a lot of good hands in play. Your advice was spot on.
Pre- Thank you also for the analysis of the range.
All three of you pegged it pretty well as far as what I was up against. I hated this hand and felt lost as it was happening. I really wondered if I should reraise preflop, but I really felt UTG+1 was incredibly strong. I had the chips counted out to raise, and just sheepishly called. He hadn't played a lot of hands and was out of position. Which is why I just called.
When the turn hit my initial reaction was dollar signs. However seeing three people before act, two of which I pegged as pretty tight players confused me. The hands before when money went in like this it was a battle royale. I realize based on your guys responses that I obviously psyched myself out. We had seen quads twice already. One hand was just brutal. board was KK797. Quad 7's took down the K9 and the K7 boat. Which I know has no relevance and I unfortunately allowed it to have relevance.
Somebody who wasn't in the hand called time on me, which I admit fully I was taking a long time but I thought it was pretty rude and it rattled me. I actually ended up folding because in the end I said to myself I am only in for 30 bucks and I like to have conviction when I am pushing in my whole stack. Feeling confused is not the way I want to push.
BB pushes all in. UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. At that point I am thinking I made the right decision as they all had me covered and then some and they all pushed in without hesitation. They show their cards and it is AQ v AK v TT, which means obviously my decision was wrong. I was shocked at how easily they threw it all in there with everybody else also throwing money in. I guess I figured one of them had A,10 or AJ or even that UTG+1 had AA. I just didn't peg the TT for just a smooth call with two in front and one left to act also.
Anyway thanks for the advice guys. All in all it was a very good night and I didn't let the hand affect me going forward. Just trying to learn from it.
BF-Thank you for the step by step analysis.
GPJ- I actually didn't think this table was loose at all. When the money went in, there were usually a heck of a lot of good hands in play. Your advice was spot on.
Pre- Thank you also for the analysis of the range.
All three of you pegged it pretty well as far as what I was up against. I hated this hand and felt lost as it was happening. I really wondered if I should reraise preflop, but I really felt UTG+1 was incredibly strong. I had the chips counted out to raise, and just sheepishly called. He hadn't played a lot of hands and was out of position. Which is why I just called.
When the turn hit my initial reaction was dollar signs. However seeing three people before act, two of which I pegged as pretty tight players confused me. The hands before when money went in like this it was a battle royale. I realize based on your guys responses that I obviously psyched myself out. We had seen quads twice already. One hand was just brutal. board was KK797. Quad 7's took down the K9 and the K7 boat. Which I know has no relevance and I unfortunately allowed it to have relevance.
Somebody who wasn't in the hand called time on me, which I admit fully I was taking a long time but I thought it was pretty rude and it rattled me. I actually ended up folding because in the end I said to myself I am only in for 30 bucks and I like to have conviction when I am pushing in my whole stack. Feeling confused is not the way I want to push.
BB pushes all in. UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. At that point I am thinking I made the right decision as they all had me covered and then some and they all pushed in without hesitation. They show their cards and it is AQ v AK v TT, which means obviously my decision was wrong. I was shocked at how easily they threw it all in there with everybody else also throwing money in. I guess I figured one of them had A,10 or AJ or even that UTG+1 had AA. I just didn't peg the TT for just a smooth call with two in front and one left to act also.
Anyway thanks for the advice guys. All in all it was a very good night and I didn't let the hand affect me going forward. Just trying to learn from it.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I think being able to make "crying calls" at the correct times is the mark of a really good poker player, and it's not easy. The lore and mythology around poker centers around having or not having "it", elaborate traps, huge bluffs with nothing, tells/reads etc. Sometimes it's about calling, knowing you very well may be beat, but knowing you've got the odds to do so. Not really sexy, but it's profitable. I think it's a great skill that limit players develop quicker than NL-only players.
I'd really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-No-Limit-Hold-Matt-Flynn/dp/188068540X
I'd really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-No-Limit-Hold-Matt-Flynn/dp/188068540X
r0llin_game
Footballguy
What's the other stack sizes. I'm more of a fan of flatting with JJ here, 3b is ok but I'd say 3b with the intention of folding to a 4b. I know there's a straddle but getting it in for a full buyin is terrible I think. Even with the descriptions of people showing down strong hands, with our stack size, we're running into AK/AQ way more often than AJ/AT. we have blockers for AJ so the only hand we're really ever behind is AT. If they have it, it's a cooler and I reload. Now after thinking about it, 3b is probably really bad pf if the game is pretty nitty. When you 3b, are you really thinking of 3b for value?
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
The most important factors in flatting vs 3betting JJ preflop here are who are the worst players at the table. If I think UTG+1 and the HJ are particularly bad and I have a good idea of how they play, I'd be more likely to 3bet an iso them. However, if I think one or both of them are some of the better players at the table, I'd look to call and try to play pots in position vs the weaker blinds and UTG.
Flop is standard, way ahead, way behind and players love to slowplay trips here.
Turn is a clear shove, imo, unless you have some incredible ability to read someone's soul and it says that they look for any reason to fold trips.
Flop is standard, way ahead, way behind and players love to slowplay trips here.
Turn is a clear shove, imo, unless you have some incredible ability to read someone's soul and it says that they look for any reason to fold trips.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
what do you mean the online game passed you by? unless you are out of the USA you can't even play.i'm sure the games are tougher now though with how few can play.What do you mean by high level poker concepts.... has theory in the game really advanced in the last 2-3 years?I've pretty well quit playing as well, but when i do sit down (granted at relatively lower limit games) I never feel outclassed.
prefontaine
Footballguy
I wouldn't speak for the weasel but imo, yes concepts have advanced a lot in NL ring. With training sites, books, videos, articles, and various other sources so readily available, the player willing to work out at can advance very quickly. The level of the average player has soared. Obviously it being very difficult for the casual player to get a game also has contributed a lot. It means sink or swim vs very good players and if you don't keep up you sink.
With more players understanding the advanced concepts, those that don't are getting left behind. Games can survive on one weak player. As long as you had some fish, you could be pretty average and not be exploited because you would win it back from the bad players. But that one fish goes and half the table may go from break even to losing. A lot of people that thought they were pretty good have become the losers at the table. And most of it is because they are weak-tight for where the games are now (what used to be a good fold has become a bad one bc the games have gotten so aggressive) and don't realize the mistakes they are making.
With more players understanding the advanced concepts, those that don't are getting left behind. Games can survive on one weak player. As long as you had some fish, you could be pretty average and not be exploited because you would win it back from the bad players. But that one fish goes and half the table may go from break even to losing. A lot of people that thought they were pretty good have become the losers at the table. And most of it is because they are weak-tight for where the games are now (what used to be a good fold has become a bad one bc the games have gotten so aggressive) and don't realize the mistakes they are making.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This would pretty much describe me. I used to wonder to myself how on earth people lost money online. I felt that playing conservative on several tables at a time would pretty much result in me having some yoyo just hand me money at some point.I used to play exclusively on pokerroom.com Then when they shut neteller down I stopped for a long time. Played on pokerstars however many months later(maybe even a year or more) and felt like I was the yoyo handing money away. At least my local casino still has enough idiots that I can usually just wait around for that one hand where some drunk guy decides that this hand will be the hand he bluffs and wins and he can show his buddies how good he is and make it a happy night for me.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Day 2? I thought it started on the 7th?Is there a website that tracks all the remaining players?
phatdawg
Footballguy
They have three Day 1s and two Day 2s. I frequently look at Pokernews and WSOP.com. I just happened to be looking at chip counts and saw Assani Fisher. Hard to miss the name.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Scroll to the bottomhttp://www.wsop.com/tourney/tourneydetails.asp?groupID=887
pantherclub
Footballguy
Holy hell he is right in the mix of it all.Super sweet.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Wait a tic, I am not seeing his name now
nevermind I am an idiot
nevermind I am an idiot
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Insoxicated
Same. Did he busto?
pantherclub
Footballguy
He just hasnt started 2 day therefor its not updatedI think
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
You may be looking at the first set of day 2 players. I don't think Assani has played in day 2 yet. You can check his data from Day 1B I think (upper right hand corner is a pull down menu to change the days so you can see different players. )
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
or maybe this is more appropriate:
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
About 6:30PM Central
southbound
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The odds are he's not going to win. 
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
He's doing well, not bleeding any chips.
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Insoxicated
NO WAY!We were all in here convinced he was a LOCK for a bracelet!Shucks... what do we do now?!The odds are he's not going to win.
rick6668
Footballguy
spOOfy
Footballguy
His odds of winning this year are better than ours.The odds are he's not going to win.
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Insoxicated
Yep. Still well above average stack I believe. Blinds/Antes are starting to become a factor at this point. The last 2 hours he was bleeding $3,400 per orbit if he wasn't picking anything up.
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Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Trying to calculate average stack...
6598 total entrants, each start with 30k chips = 197,940k chips
842 advance from 2A+2B,
2299 seat assignments for day 2C (seems high? Day 1C entrants = 3418)
3141 players left, dividing number of chips left by number of players = 63,018 chips per player
However given that 2/3rds of the players have only completed 1 day it may make sense.
If Day 1 cuts the number of entrants in half (guessing), average chip stack = 60k, if Day 2 cuts it in half again then average stack size should be ~120k.
Ok using some creative math...
Day 1C/2C players have an average stack size of:
44.6k = ((3418 x 30k) / 2299)
Day 1AB/2AB players (completed Day2) have an average stack size of:
113.3k = (((6598 - 3418) x 30k) / 842) - I think this is pretty close
6598 total entrants, each start with 30k chips = 197,940k chips
842 advance from 2A+2B,
2299 seat assignments for day 2C (seems high? Day 1C entrants = 3418)
3141 players left, dividing number of chips left by number of players = 63,018 chips per player
However given that 2/3rds of the players have only completed 1 day it may make sense.
If Day 1 cuts the number of entrants in half (guessing), average chip stack = 60k, if Day 2 cuts it in half again then average stack size should be ~120k.
Ok using some creative math...
Day 1C/2C players have an average stack size of:
44.6k = ((3418 x 30k) / 2299)
Day 1AB/2AB players (completed Day2) have an average stack size of:
113.3k = (((6598 - 3418) x 30k) / 842) - I think this is pretty close
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Insoxicated
$30k in chips to start IIRC.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
Thanks, fixed.So AF is about 23% above the average stack size (if my calcs are correct), not bad.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Pots of ice.
Jojo the circus boy
Footballguy
started with 6598 players @ t30k chips
now D3 with 1753 players w/ an average stack of t113k
the chip counts at WSOP are a little sketchy (2A and 2B are the same list, D3 is not combined of all D2's), it looks like AF is in ~570th place out of 1753 players entering D3 today.
...and that is not even accurate, wow their chip counts are a horrible mess on their website - Deeb is listed twice (both in 2A/B as well as in 2C).
Top 20
1 Gaelle Baumann 505,800 France
2 Mark Demirdjian 499,900 Canada
3 Shaun Deeb 460,900 USA
4 Michael Hack 457,000 USA
5 Marco Bognanni 452,100 Montserrat
6 Jonathan Fountain 435,400 USA
7 Randy Haddox 407,300 USA
8 John Leathart 404,900 USA
9 Randy Haddox 399,000 USA
10 Erik Hellman 397,900 Sweden
11 Kevin Davis 394,800 USA
12 Jan Kasten 391,800 Germany
13 Taylor Paur 391,600 USA
14 David Kluchman 383,000 USA
15 Jim Burns 381,600 USA
16 Matt Woodward 381,000 ???
17 Luke Brereton 372,000 USA
18 Jacob Schindler 371,600 USA
19 Thanh dat Tran 369,300 USA
20 Jeremy Allen 364,200 USA
now D3 with 1753 players w/ an average stack of t113k
the chip counts at WSOP are a little sketchy (2A and 2B are the same list, D3 is not combined of all D2's), it looks like AF is in ~570th place out of 1753 players entering D3 today.
...and that is not even accurate, wow their chip counts are a horrible mess on their website - Deeb is listed twice (both in 2A/B as well as in 2C).
Top 20
1 Gaelle Baumann 505,800 France
2 Mark Demirdjian 499,900 Canada
3 Shaun Deeb 460,900 USA
4 Michael Hack 457,000 USA
5 Marco Bognanni 452,100 Montserrat
6 Jonathan Fountain 435,400 USA
7 Randy Haddox 407,300 USA
8 John Leathart 404,900 USA
9 Randy Haddox 399,000 USA
10 Erik Hellman 397,900 Sweden
11 Kevin Davis 394,800 USA
12 Jan Kasten 391,800 Germany
13 Taylor Paur 391,600 USA
14 David Kluchman 383,000 USA
15 Jim Burns 381,600 USA
16 Matt Woodward 381,000 ???
17 Luke Brereton 372,000 USA
18 Jacob Schindler 371,600 USA
19 Thanh dat Tran 369,300 USA
20 Jeremy Allen 364,200 USA
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Assani Fisher US US BustedRead more: http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/2012-world-series-of-poker/event-61-no-limit-hold-em-main-event/chips.htm
pantherclub
Footballguy
damn that was quick. I wonder what happened.
Random
Footballguy
Probably a bad beat
pantherclub
Footballguy
or multiple bad beats.It will be interesting to learn what happen because that seemed rather quick.
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Insoxicated
Sometimes you run into a monster vs a bigger stack. Coulda been oversetted... hard to see that coming. Coulda been drawn out on. Who knows. definitely interested in hearing how it went down though. Glllll Assani. Sorry GB.
pantherclub
Footballguy
He made money though right.This is why I say the main event has to be the hardest tourney to win. Lots of donkeys just fishing and more times than not when you go head to head with them at some point they are going to catch some crap.Sometimes you run into a monster vs a bigger stack. Coulda been oversetted... hard to see that coming. Coulda been drawn out on. Who knows. definitely interested in hearing how it went down though. Glllll Assani. Sorry GB.
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Insoxicated
Nope, I don't believe he cashed in this event. He did cash in another though.He made money though right.This is why I say the main event has to be the hardest tourney to win. Lots of donkeys just fishing and more times than not when you go head to head with them at some point they are going to catch some crap.Sometimes you run into a monster vs a bigger stack. Coulda been oversetted... hard to see that coming. Coulda been drawn out on. Who knows. definitely interested in hearing how it went down though. Glllll Assani. Sorry GB.