Austria & Germany: Germany votes against mandatory vaccines, tide may be turning (1 Viewer)

[Insein]

Germany and Austria are imposing forced segregation of a group of people based on perceived illness. Never been tried before I think. Let's see how it goes. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/12/covid-austria-to-impose-lockdowns-on-millions-of-unvaccinated-people.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/11/15/1055839727/austria-and-germany-impose-restrictions-on-unvaccinated-people-as-covid-cases-su

 

[Desert_Power]

Good

 

[Insein]

Good

Now we see how it got to the camps back in the 30's. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Police are conducting spot checks of digital vaccine certificates, though there's skepticism about how effectively the lockdown can be enforced.

I too think it's a good idea to have armed police officers checking people's papers as they go about their daily lives.  

 

[Sparky Big Time]

Understand that the nations have the best of intentions.

Further understand that this systemic suppression of people does not unify or effectively suppress people. It is folly to think this happens without repercussions.

 

[Insein]

Understand that the nations have the best of intentions.

Further understand that this systemic suppression of people does not unify or effectively suppress people. It is folly to think this happens without repercussions.

I disagree with this notion. 

 

[Desert_Power]

Now we see how it got to the camps back in the 30's. 

Completely laughable analogy, but not surprising 

 

[Insein]

Completely laughable analogy, but not surprising 

Someone isn't laughing. 

Holocaust survivor equates Nazis treatment of Jews to today's treatment of unvaccinated

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Germany doesn't surprise.  They have a hateful history, unfortunately

 

[Mookie]

Someone isn't laughing. 

Holocaust survivor equates Nazis treatment of Jews to today's treatment of unvaccinated

Over 5 million COVID deaths, and I'd assume most of those are unvaccinated people, so I guess it's comparable in that sense.  

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Perhaps this is a good reference for why it is inaccurate and irresponsible to use the term "lockdown" to describe anything that happened in the US over the past 2 years.

 

[Herb]

Now we see how it got to the camps back in the 30's. 

I must have missed the part where they're rounding up the unvaccinated into train cars after stealing all of their possessions and transporting them to forced labor/death camps. You got a link?

 

[LawFitz]

I must have missed the part where they're rounding up the unvaccinated into train cars after stealing all of their possessions and transporting them to forced labor/death camps. You got a link?

I think his point is that it can be a slippery slope once the State starts an oppression campaign against a subset of citizens.

 

[Insein]

I must have missed the part where they're rounding up the unvaccinated into train cars after stealing all of their possessions and transporting them to forced labor/death camps. You got a link?

Give it another 6-12 months. We seem to be on the accelerated path. 

 

[Herb]

I think his point is that it can be a slippery slope once the State starts an oppression campaign against a subset of citizens.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think loaded language like this:

Give it another 6-12 months. We seem to be on the accelerated path. 

Doesn't really help the discussion.

 

[Insein]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that. I just think loaded language like this:

Doesn't really help the discussion.

Neither does asking for proof of internment camps being built and people being placed on trains. The parallels are literally slapping you on the face and you at best ignore it or at worst like desert power cheer it on. 

I always wondered how it could get to that point. We are literally seeing it happen before our eyes. 

 

[Gatorman]

This is kind of foolish, and I'm a liberal.  To me, the best way to handle this is as follows: If you have not taken the precaution of getting vaccinated, you will no longer receive free care when you get COVID, regardless if you are in a country with single payer or not.  IF you already had covid and think your antibodies are enough to keep you from getting it again, cool.  If you have been vaccinated, your medical care is still covered.  Should you be unable to pay for your treatment, a certain amount of "community service" hours willbe required to discharge the debt once you recover

Carry on.

 

[RCon]

I think the word "lockdown" is irresponsible, at least with regard to the first article linked in the OP.  Once you read the details, what is really happening is...

When COVID patients occupy 30% of ICU beds, the following regulations will go into effect: "Unvaccinated people will be banned from visiting non-essential public places like restaurants and movie theaters, and will not be permitted to use services that require close contact, such as beauty salons and barbers."

Yeah, my answer there is "good".  This isn't "rounding people up".  This isn't "forcing people to get vaxxed".  This isn't "lockdown".  These are some pretty basic restrictions.  Stop with the hysterics.

 

[Amused to Death]

This is kind of foolish, and I'm a liberal.  To me, the best way to handle this is as follows: If you have not taken the precaution of getting vaccinated, you will no longer receive free care when you get COVID, regardless if you are in a country with single payer or not.  IF you already had covid and think your antibodies are enough to keep you from getting it again, cool.  If you have been vaccinated, your medical care is still covered.  Should you be unable to pay for your treatment, a certain amount of "community service" hours willbe required to discharge the debt once you recover

Carry on.

Agreed. I don't agree with what Germany and Austria are doing (seems drastic) but I know some countries are doing the bolded. Seems appropriate.

 

[Herb]

Neither does asking for proof of internment camps being built and people being placed on trains. The parallels are literally slapping you on the face and you at best ignore it or at worst like desert power cheer it on. 

I always wondered how it could get to that point. We are literally seeing it happen before our eyes. 

You are correct about the bolded. I suck at "being better."

As for your slippery slope assertion, I tend to agree in principle, but being in healthcare I'm seeing the devastating effects of voluntary non-vaccination up close. I don't like the way any of this is playing out, from any direction. I often wonder whether or not this would be an issue if DJT had won in 2020. He would have wrapped himself in glory for "creating the greatest vaccine" and his followers would have just happily lined up and gotten the jab and none of this nonsense would be occurring.

 

[The General]

I think the word "lockdown" is irresponsible, at least with regard to the first article linked in the OP.  Once you read the details, what is really happening is...

When COVID patients occupy 30% of ICU beds, the following regulations will go into effect: "Unvaccinated people will be banned from visiting non-essential public places like restaurants and movie theaters, and will not be permitted to use services that require close contact, such as beauty salons and barbers."

Yeah, my answer there is "good".  This isn't "rounding people up".  This isn't "forcing people to get vaxxed".  This isn't "lockdown".  These are some pretty basic restrictions.  Stop with the hysterics.

Pretty much this.

 

[Insein]

You are correct about the bolded. I suck at "being better."

As for your slippery slope assertion, I tend to agree in principle, but being in healthcare I'm seeing the devastating effects of voluntary non-vaccination up close. I don't like the way any of this is playing out, from any direction. I often wonder whether or not this would be an issue if DJT had won in 2020. He would have wrapped himself in glory for "creating the greatest vaccine" and his followers would have just happily lined up and gotten the jab and none of this nonsense would be occurring.

And those that hated him would never have taken it. I wonder if the right would have labeled them anti-vaxxers or not. Doubtful. 

 

[LawFitz]

I often wonder whether or not this would be an issue if DJT had won in 2020. He would have wrapped himself in glory for "creating the greatest vaccine" and his followers would have just happily lined up and gotten the jab and none of this nonsense would be occurring.

I'd still be unvaxxed. But the Right would be admonishing the Left for not taking the Trump vax. Would simply be a different side of the exact same #### coin IMO.

 

[Mile High]

And those that hated him would never have taken it.

 

[The General]

I'd still be unvaxxed. But the Right would be admonishing the Left for not taking the Trump vax. Would simply be a different side of the exact same #### coin IMO.

You’d have the same 20% or whatever not taking it IMO.

 

[Herb]

And those that hated him would never have taken it. I wonder if the right would have labeled them anti-vaxxers or not. Doubtful. 

I hated him, and I would have taken it. I don't know of anyone personally that is currently vaccinated that would have gone that route. I can think of several that are currently not vaccinated that I think would be if he were still president and stumping at his rallies over how important it is to take 'his beautiful vaccine.'

 

[zoonation]

And those that hated him would never have taken it. I wonder if the right would have labeled them anti-vaxxers or not. Doubtful. 

This is complete nonsense.  

 

[Insein]

This is complete nonsense.  

Seriously? Not sidetracking this thread but Biden and Kamala both said they won't take the vax if Trump says to take it. There would have been plenty to take it on the Trump side and enough to offset on the other side not taking it especially if Trump was still in power. 

There still obviously would be people who would take it regardless and people who won't regardless. 

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I'm anti-mandate and do agree that full mandate does actually require more of the Lawfitz trademark "time and space."

On the other hand, I'm anti-"harm causing stupidity" which is 99% what the anti-vax seems to be hanging their hats on. Your case is mega-weak sauce and reeks of "fitting in with all the other gullible yahoos" baloney. This mess would be a hundred times easier to deal with if not for you all. So thanks for that.

I wish it was possible to go out there in the internets and erase all Covid and covid vax misinformation. It's my belief that if the actual scientific truth was easy to discern, and the only information available, anti-vaxxers would be few and far between, in the flat-earthers bin where they belong. 

 

[zoonation]

Seriously? Not sidetracking this thread but Biden and Kamala both said they won't take the vax if Trump says to take it. There would have been plenty to take it on the Trump side and enough to offset on the other side not taking it especially if Trump was still in power. 

The efficacy of the vaccine was not proven when those statements were made.  All we had at the time were Trumps proclamations, which anyone would be rightfully skeptical of given that he is a habitual liar.  

However, once the scientific community (worldwide) confirmed the vaccine was efficacious, anything Trump said would no longer factor into the decision making process.  Reasonable people also know that Trump had nothing to do with developing the actual vaccine. To suggest they would jeopardize their health because they hate Trump is ridiculous.  

 

[Insein]

The efficacy of the vaccine was not proven when those statements were made.  All we had at the time were Trumps proclamations, which anyone would be rightfully skeptical of given that he is a habitual liar.  

However, once the scientific community (worldwide) confirmed the vaccine was efficacious, anything Trump said would no longer factor into the decision making process.  Reasonable people also know that Trump had nothing to do with developing the actual vaccine. To suggest they would jeopardize their health because they hate Trump is ridiculous.  

Again to those that were taking it anyway, that would have sufficed but just like you acuse Trumpers of blindly following, there are millions that do the same on the other side. That's why we're here. People blindly following orders. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Do people really believe MAGA and Trump support is world wide in large numbers?

 

[Insein]

Do people really believe MAGA and Trump support is world wide in large numbers?

If you're told for 4 years non stop that someone is the next Hitler, you start to believe it. 

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I'd still be unvaxxed. But the Right would be admonishing the Left for not taking the Trump vax. Would simply be a different side of the exact same #### coin IMO.

There are plenty of vax resisting folks out there who are generally considered more liberal voters. I'd be pretty surprised if your take is actually right though. The "Covid's not really that bad man" and "Anti mask" sentiment was pretty much a righty position, no?. The vocal anti vax position seemed like their destiny. It sure is what they're being sold right now.

 

[RCon]

Seriously? Not sidetracking this thread but Biden and Kamala both said they won't take the vax if Trump says to take it. There would have been plenty to take it on the Trump side and enough to offset on the other side not taking it especially if Trump was still in power. 

There still obviously would be people who would take it regardless and people who won't regardless. 

Stop it.  What Kamala Harris said was:

If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely.  But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it. I’m not taking it.

She clearly indicated that she would take the vaccine if the health professionals said to take it.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Stop it.  That's not remotely what they said.

You stop it. They were two of the highest profile leading voices promoting vaccine hesitancy. GTFO with the exact quote nonsense. It was purely political and it's on video. 

 

[RCon]

You stop it. They were two of the highest profile leading voices promoting vaccine hesitancy. GTFO with the exact quote nonsense. It was purely political and it's on video. 

Kamala Harris absolutely did not promote vaccine hesitancy.  That's just an absolute lie propagated by Fox News.

"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely."

 

[zoonation]

Do people really believe MAGA and Trump support is world wide in large numbers?

What makes you ask that?  The obvious answer is no. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Kamala Harris absolutely did not promote vaccine hesitancy.  That's just an absolute lie propagated by Fox News.

"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely."

Nice try. Care to quote the whole thing? LINK

 

[zoonation]

You stop it. They were two of the highest profile leading voices promoting vaccine hesitancy. GTFO with the exact quote nonsense. It was purely political and it's on video. 

Lmao.  Put the Fox News down. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Lmao.  Put the Fox News down. 

My link was NBC, not Fox.

The syndrome is real.

 

[Insein]

Kamala Harris absolutely did not promote vaccine hesitancy.  That's just an absolute lie propagated by Fox News.

"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely."

Dude she literally said she's not taking it if Trump says to take it. Those words came out of her mouth. Just stop. 

This thread isnt for this anyway but Man.

Actually I take that back. This kind of revisionist view of recent events is exactly relevant. Thats how we get the cognitive dissonance to say certain groups of people deserve to be segregated by the government. Because it's not them and the government told them they are bad. 

 

[General Malaise]

Yup, I think the logical leap from trying to control the spread of a virus to Holocaust 2.0 is absolutely on fleek.

 

[FairWarning]

There are plenty of vax resisting folks out there who are generally considered more liberal voters. I'd be pretty surprised if your take is actually right though. The "Covid's not really that bad man" and "Anti mask" sentiment was pretty much a righty position, no?. The vocal anti vax position seemed like their destiny. It sure is what they're being sold right now.

My best friend thought COVID wasn’t that bad until he just got it.  He said he wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

 

[sho nuff]

Dude she literally said she's not taking it if Trump says to take it. Those words came out of her mouth. Just stop. 

This thread isnt for this anyway but Man.

Actually I take that back. This kind of revisionist view of recent events is exactly relevant. Thats how we get the cognitive dissonance to say certain groups of people deserve to be segregated by the government. Because it's not them and the government told them they are bad. 

You should probably look at everything she had to say..including believing the doctors about it and not him.  She promoted Trump hesitancy...not science/vaccine hesitancy.

 

[RCon]

Nice try. Care to quote the whole thing? LINK

I did, immediately above.  Nothing she said promoted vaccine hesitancy.  That's a lie propagated by Fox News, et.al.  This really isn't debatable if you read the full text.

 

[General Malaise]

You should probably look at everything she had to say..including believing the doctors about it and not him.  She promoted Trump hesitancy...not science/vaccine hesitancy.

Well, and to her credit, Trump suggested injecting bleach, so.....hard to fault her here.

 

[Dickies]

I think his point is that it can be a slippery slope once the State starts an oppression campaign against a subset of citizens.

 

 

[Insein]

Yup, I think the logical leap from trying to control the spread of a virus to Holocaust 2.0 is absolutely on fleek.

The logical leap of segregating a population on flimsy pretenses that offer no safety based on actual science is exactly how the Holocaust happened. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

This went into effect in Bavaria a couple weeks ago. Police aren't checking anyone. Culturally essential businesses, ie barber shops, restaurants, etc were already checking status and logging guests to contact trace in the case of a positive test. The threat of police coming and doing a quick check and issuing huge fines is enough to keep the businesses self policing themselves. Unvaxxed are still allowed to use essential businesses, ie grocery stores, drug stores, etc.