Avoid Mike Wallace, the Raven? (1 Viewer)

[stbugs]

Even his teammates called him to the floor on it.

I don't know why I bother. He's clearly either a staggering idiot or on a long fishing trip. I just can't help myself. I'm surprised he's not in the MOP pizza thread still yelling about how two 10" pizzas is more than one 18".

20 inches is more than 18 for goodness sake

That's what she said.

But seriously, one 18-inch pizza is considerably more pizza than two 10-inch pizzas.

As for Wallace, I owned him last year and had The Ticket, so I saw most of his snaps.

Based on my observations, I can tell you two things:

One, he improved as a route runner and did a lot more than run go routes. And he became a legitimate red zone weapon.

Two, when they did send him deep, Tanny rarely hit him. Tanny cost him at least four long TDs last year, if not more. Hit, say, just three of those and his PPR average goes up a couple points.

He has his flaws, yes, but he is a quality WR and I would happily select him at his current ADP or later as my 3rd or 4th WR.

How do you know it wasn't the other way around? Maybe Tanny put the ball where it was supposed to be and Wallace didn't run the route exactly as he should.

These things can go either way. It is obvious when a guy breaks out and the QB throws in or whatnot but we don't know how many times a QB/WR practice a play during the week and then the QB knows "on this play, I drop 3, I toss it just like this and there's my guy 37 yards down field" but then when the game comes around, the WR didn't run fast enough or ran too fast or whatever and didn't run that same route practiced.

I don't know which is likely to be more correct but it seems like there is a LOT of smoke that has followed Wallace everywhere he has been in terms of route running in general.

While it is true "things can go either way," in this case Wallace has proven in the past he can connect with a QB (Big Ben) on deep balls. Tannehill has yet to prove the same with any WR and was 28th in ypa last year. Benefit of the doubt goes to Wallace.

Yeah, I agree with Jack. I targeted Wallace last year based on his ADP being so low. He actually was pretty serviceable based on where I drafted him due to the TDs. I watched a few games (not as many as Jack) and every game I saw at least 1 or 2 balls where Wallace was wide open and the pass was way off the mark. The announcers mentioned a few times that Tannehill wasn't known/good at the long ball. I think Wallace finished around WR20ish in PPR and if Tannehill could throw a BB type of long ball (Bridgewater so far looks a lot better at that), he was easily a top WR2 last year.

I like Johnson as well and honestly, if they are both going around the 8th, might not be a bad strategy to pick up both as your WR3/4. You might end up playing both some weeks and you likely get a WR2 out of one of the 2. Rudolph is no threat. Last year he seemed to do little with Bridgewater (9 games, 24 receptions). Wallace and Johnson could both be solid and I for one won't shy away from Wallace again.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Even his teammates called him to the floor on it.

I don't know why I bother. He's clearly either a staggering idiot or on a long fishing trip. I just can't help myself. I'm surprised he's not in the MOP pizza thread still yelling about how two 10" pizzas is more than one 18".

20 inches is more than 18 for goodness sake

That's what she said.

But seriously, one 18-inch pizza is considerably more pizza than two 10-inch pizzas.

As for Wallace, I owned him last year and had The Ticket, so I saw most of his snaps.

Based on my observations, I can tell you two things:

One, he improved as a route runner and did a lot more than run go routes. And he became a legitimate red zone weapon.

Two, when they did send him deep, Tanny rarely hit him. Tanny cost him at least four long TDs last year, if not more. Hit, say, just three of those and his PPR average goes up a couple points.

He has his flaws, yes, but he is a quality WR and I would happily select him at his current ADP or later as my 3rd or 4th WR.

How do you know it wasn't the other way around? Maybe Tanny put the ball where it was supposed to be and Wallace didn't run the route exactly as he should.

These things can go either way. It is obvious when a guy breaks out and the QB throws in or whatnot but we don't know how many times a QB/WR practice a play during the week and then the QB knows "on this play, I drop 3, I toss it just like this and there's my guy 37 yards down field" but then when the game comes around, the WR didn't run fast enough or ran too fast or whatever and didn't run that same route practiced.

I don't know which is likely to be more correct but it seems like there is a LOT of smoke that has followed Wallace everywhere he has been in terms of route running in general.

All good points Shout but I've seen a lot of WRs in Miami from Mark Duper to Irving Fryar to Brandon Marshall and I can say that only Duper ever got the kind of separation I saw Wallace get in a Miami uniform and I bet I am not alone in that observation among Dolphins fans. Like I said, I believe both RT and MW will do well this year. I've seen Wallace going in the 7th as a WR3 type, that's a potential juicy fruit in that range. I like his value this year more so than other years.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I don't think the issue here is whether or not Wallace can run deep routes well. It's all the others.

The difficulty with Wallace is that he's too good to simply be a Terrance Williams / Kenny Stills type WR2, but not complete enough to be a true WR1. He's no better than a DeSean Jackson (although doesn't offer anything close the Desean in the open field on on PR). And he somehow managed to get paid (almost) like a Dez or DT. That was nice work on his and his agent's part. But he's certainly not worth that.

Hey Karma , I was going to link a highlight reel of MW on the tube but I misread your post. You're right, MW cannot hold a candle on punt returns to Jackson but he sure can get open and gain separation. I don't know every WR does that, some do but certainly not all, perhaps not even 1/4 to 1/2, not like Wallace does. If he were a more complete WR he would be deadly. Maybe the DBs give that to him because they know he can't function in the 5-15 yard range, just thinking out loud.

 

[Jack White]

I'm still avoiding anything near of thinking of him as a WR1. Peterson will be on perma-showcase this year and Johnson and Rudolph are formidable options. Add to that a second-year QB and this thing reeks of feast or famine, inconsistency, and a general recipe for the things you don't like on a FF team.

I'm sure he will have a couple of big play games and remind us of what he brings to the table but he's also going to be the guy that ends up 4/37 some days and I don't like that, for the price.

Almost every WR in the game (Antonio excluded) has the occasional 4/37 game.

 

[karmarooster]

karmarooster you asked for a take on the situation. I offered you my honest opinion yet you prefer to listen to rotoword it seems when what I say isn't what you wanted to hear.

Mike Wallace as you say is more than just a deep threat WR2. I disagree with your opinion that he isn't a complete WR capable of being a true WR1 but our definition of what a WR1 is may also not be the same.

It certainly is possible that Charles Johnson or another WR gets more targets/receptions/yards/TD than Mike Wallace does in 2015 but I think the most likely scenario is that Mike Wallace is the leader in all of these categories by seasons end. That could mean that Johnson is only a few catches behind Wallace or it could mean there is a bigger gap between their production, I think that depends on how much Rudolph, other TE and the RB are targeted, as well as Patterson and Wright.

The amount of money that Wallace makes isn't an issue that concerns me. Rick Spielman and the front office will handle that. It seems unfair to judge him based on how much money he made. It is immaterial to his value in FF.

Wallace has finished as a WR1 for fantasy in two of his six seasons. The worst he has placed in WR performance was 29th overall as a rookie. He has scored 8 or more TD in four out of six seasons.

If Charles Johnson doubled his production from last season we are looking at 62 receptions 950 yards 4TD

Mike Wallace has outperformed those numbers in every one of his six seasons. So I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Wallace to perform at least somewhat better than Johnson or any other Vikings WR does.

Alright to be fair I was having fun stirring the pot.. appreciate your opinion! I was interested to know if any homers had read about Wallace being clearly entrenched as the WR1 in the Norv Offense. If the take is "well, they signed him to a lot of money, and he's really good", I don't know that it's clearly settled. I think pro-CXJ fans are assuming he'll continue to grow and Wallace is a compliment, whereas pro-Wallace fans are assuming he'll rebound to his early Steelers days outside of MIA. I sort of wrote Wallace off as a deep threat that avoids contact because of way back when I was Pro-Antonio Brown while others were claiming Wallace was in a different league above him.

However, the "they signed him" argument was basically true with Greg Jennings, but that didn't work out well (mostly due to QB play, so not suuuper relevant, but somewhat). Anyways in a normal situation, we would just assume Wallace and CXJ would share looks as they have different, complimentary skill sets, but the Norv offense is so feast/famine between the X and the Z.

Looking forward to some training camp reports on who's lining up where!

 

[mr roboto]

Charles Johnson has the size/strength/build to be an all-around true #1 WR. But he hasn't done it yet (but looked good 2nd half of the year last year). In theory Johnson has the higher ceiling both in NFL utilization and FF value.

Wallace is more proven. Turner will get him the routes deep. My concern is that Teddy's strength is on intermediate throws, anticipation, touch. His deep ball is suspect (he did improve last year so let's hope that continues).

I could see Johnson with more targets and receptions, Wallace a couple hundred more yards and a couple more touchdowns. But I will say this - I truly believe Charles Johnson will be a top 10 WR in the NFL by 2016 or 2017.

 

[Biabreakable]

In reference to karmaroosters question about MIke Wallace since he was traded for:

The coaches and GM talked about how they respect what Mike Wallace can do. Spielman did want to sign Wallace over Greg Jennings and alegedly offered him more money than he got from the Dolphins, but Wallace chose Miami in part because of the difference in weather, but I also think because of Christian Ponder.

Since then Wallace and Bridgewater have been working out together in Florida with Xavier Rhodes the Vikings best corner providing Wallace competition.

During OTAs Wallace and Bridgewater have been putting in extra work after team activities.

In this thread there is a twitter feed of reactions from the first day of practicing in pads. You can read for yourself the multiple comments on Wallace making plays during the practice sessions. You also will see some positive comments about Johnson there as well. But not as many.

Mike Wallace is playing the Z role but has also played the X with the Steelers. His experience and position versatility should lead to him getting more offensive snaps than Johnson. At the end of last season Johnson played more snaps than any other WR.

Wallace is a lot better in the red zone than some people might think.

Wallace is excited about playing with Peterson because he knows how much attention Peterson will draw from the defense, which will provide a lot more one on one opportunities than he saw playing for Miami.

 

[karmarooster]

Thanks

I get a "rising tide lifts all boats" feeling here, with TB growing, AP back, second year in the Norv offense. Maybe even Rudolph is alive! I had success using both Wallace as a WR2 and CXJ as a WR3 in Fanduel last year, mostly with Wallace in the early to mid season and CXJ at the end. Always felt like I got lucky with Wallace as he'd turn a 5-65 into a decent game by adding a red zone TD.

 

[Biabreakable]

From Eric Thompsons article today:

Mike Wallace has been saying all the right things so far. More importantly, he's been doing all the right things on the field. He has already started to build a pretty strong rapport with Teddy. Labeling Wallace a "deep threat" is kind of accurate and misleading at the same time. How? His speed does make him a threat to go deep at any time, but where he really excels is getting separation underneath defenders that have started to back off. He was getting open at will on Tuesday afternoon on all sorts of short and intermediate routes, and Teddy found him nearly every time. And just to drive home the point of doing all the right things, Wallace and Bridgewater stayed late after practice to run wind sprints.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

As a Viking fan, I am starting to get excited about this WR corps. I haven't read anything bad about Wallace and Johnson so far, plus the talk of camp thus far has been Stefon Diggs who has been a standout. If Cordarrelle can step it up and Wright play well, there will be plenty to get excited about in Viking-land this year!!

 

[Faust]

Mike Wallace: Label me what you want, but don't call me a quitter

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/25254672/mike-wallace-label-me-what-you-want-but-dont-call-me-a-quitter

 

[Grahamburn]

Are we exploiting Wallace now? He's super cheap in early drafts. $4 in a 12 team .5 PPR with a $200 budget over the weekend.

 

[Biabreakable]

A nice blurb about Wallace in this article.

When Mike Wallace joined the Vikings this offseason, many believed his deep speed would open opportunities underneath for wide receivers like Charles Johnson and Jarius Wright. The vertical ability is still there, but Wallace has been a revelation in the passing game, catching nearly every ball thrown his way (24 targets, 20 catches) and making plays at every level of the secondary. Through four games, he has just one touchdown, but leads the team in targets, receptions, and yards.

Against the Broncos, he won the battle with 2014 Pro Bowl cornerback Chris Harris, taking advantage of his deep speed to keep Harris off balance. His stat line (8 catches, 83 yards, and a touchdown) doesn’t jump out on paper, but it was clear that Wallace wasn’t just the Vikings’ best receiver on Sunday; he’s also become Teddy Bridgewater’s most trusted target.

 

[Biabreakable]

Will Mike Wallace be with the Vikings Next Season?

After four weeks Wallace leads all Vikings WR with 195 offensive snaps 77% 24 targets 6 targets/game 20 receptions (83% of targets) 5 receptions/game 233 yards 48 yards/game 11.7ypc 1TD

The Vikings have struggled with pass protection and routes are sped up quite a bit because of that leading to the lower yards per reception.

Supposedly a good match up at home against KC who has struggled against the pass this season.

Wallace has a minor knee injury that he rested on Wednesday but on Thursday he said he expects to be able to play on Sunday.

 

[munygon2]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

 

[zamboni]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

Don't also rule out Stefon Diggs continuing to emerge. Charles Johnson hasn't done much and may be opening the door to the rookie.

 

[munygon2]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

I play in 3 leagues, and the 2 that are 12-teamers, Wallace isn't even owned. I was just not sure if he is being overlooked or what's going on. If TB sees him as his favorite, then he probably should be owned virtually everywhere.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

Don't also rule out Stefon Diggs continuing to emerge. Charles Johnson hasn't done much and may be opening the door to the rookie.

Eh, I think it is safe to assume Diggs isn't going to beat out Johnson or Wallace. He could be a nice player, but I am going to rule that out for this year. If you're a subscriber, have a look at Matt Harmon's reception perception articles - one of them goes into depth on these two. Both Wallace and Johnson are pretty damn good receivers, with Johnson actually being a little better in a few scenarios.

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

I play in 3 leagues, and the 2 that are 12-teamers, Wallace isn't even owned. I was just not sure if he is being overlooked or what's going on. If TB sees him as his favorite, then he probably should be owned virtually everywhere.

That's bizarre. Those can't be serious leagues or must have weird lineups (like start 2 WR with only 4 bench spots). Wallace and Johnson should both be owned in all 12 team leagues. I wouldn't trust Johnson in a lineup yet, but he should be owned. I haven't seen either guy dropped in any leagues I'm in (otherwise I'd have grabbed them!). This situation is a little like Detroit where the passing game just hasn't taken off. Calvin and Tate are only on pace for a combined 1875 yards and 3 TDs. Things should turn around for both teams and their top 2 wideouts.

 

[Shutout]

I'm still avoiding just based on the premise of inconsistency.

When the thread began, the question was about "fit". That has improved but now it is hard to envision a consistent presence. This is, once again, an Adrian Peterson team and the WRs and TEs on this team warrant enough consideration to prevent this from being a "look early, look often" case for Wallace.

I kind of wish Mike Wallace was a Carolina Panther.

 

[FF Ninja]

I'm still avoiding just based on the premise of inconsistency.

When the thread began, the question was about "fit". That has improved but now it is hard to envision a consistent presence. This is, once again, an Adrian Peterson team and the WRs and TEs on this team warrant enough consideration to prevent this from being a "look early, look often" case for Wallace.

I kind of wish Mike Wallace was a Carolina Panther.

That would've been amazing. It would be like his early years with the Steelers except maybe better.

But with any WR2/3, you have to expect some inconsistency. Assuming they figured some things out over the bye (not a given with Norv), the passing game should improve from terrible to mediocre which would be really nice for the #1 target. Given Wallace's ADP, I don't think anyone who drafted him can complain too much. He was pretty cheap this year, if I recall correctly.

With TB's tendency to look his way over Johnson and the idea that the passing game can't get much worse, I think Wallace is a decent trade target.

 

[Biabreakable]

I'm guessing he's a WR3 the rest of the season with an occassional WR1 type of day?

I think that's the case for most WR3 players. But for Wallace to be a WR3 you are betting that Bridgewater's stats remain terrible or that Charles Johnson becomes the featured WR that we thought he might be. As of right now, it seems Bridgewater has better chemistry with Wallace. I'm a little surprised by that, but such is life. TB is on pace for 3100 yards and 8 TDs. If he can increase that pace then I think it puts Wallace in WR2 territory.

Don't also rule out Stefon Diggs continuing to emerge. Charles Johnson hasn't done much and may be opening the door to the rookie.

Eh, I think it is safe to assume Diggs isn't going to beat out Johnson or Wallace. He could be a nice player, but I am going to rule that out for this year. If you're a subscriber, have a look at Matt Harmon's reception perception articles - one of them goes into depth on these two. Both Wallace and Johnson are pretty damn good receivers, with Johnson actually being a little better in a few scenarios.

Why assume anything?

Charles Johnson was limited in practice and will be listed as questionable on Sunday.

Johnson has not been winning contested catches which is something the Vikings want the X WR to be able to do at times.

Diggs has been very good at winning contested catch situations. According to Mike Wallace Diggs has been very consistent in practices all training camp leading up to now, and that is the reason he has been elevated to the active roster and given the opportunity to play.

Diggs is going to get opportunities and unless Charles Johnson starts making more plays than he has thus far this season he will see less and less snaps and opportunities. In which case Diggs could win the start over him. Norv Turner has said the players who do well in the games will get more opportunity.

Charles Johnson [SIZE=11pt]3 games 130 offensive snaps 52% 8 targets 6 receptions 46 yards 7.7ypc 0TD[/SIZE]

Week 1 55os 98% 3 targets 2 receptions 27 yards 13.5ypc

Week 2 60os 92% 3 targets 3 receptions 10 yards 3.3ypc

Week 3 15os 26% 2 targets 1 reception 9 yards

Not exactly lighting the world on fire when he was healthy. The first two games were a lot of snaps not much production. Then he got hurt.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Additionally, homers think that Brown is the better receiver. He is damn good, but Wallace is the better receiver.

Just to revisit this, within the last few days, Brown put up a 300 yard day which was one of the top 10 games in terms of yardage in the history of the league.

Meanwhile, Mike Wallace's Dolphins contract was called out by ESPN as one of the 25 worst contracts in football history (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14047374/ranking-25-worst-contracts-nfl-history-part-1)



I will never get tired of revisiting this thread. The levels of "wrongness" in here by TT haven't been seen since Custer.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Just cut the bum for Nate.

 

[Biabreakable]

MIke Wallace has been playing progressively worse since the Denver game.

A good deal of the blame is on Teddy for overthrowing Wallace multiple times when he has been open. However Wallace has dropped several catchable passes as well. He looks frustrated at times and I have heard criticism of his route running being imprecise. I think this may be building a lack of trust from Bridgewater that Wallace will make a play on the ball even if he does not throw it perfectly. This causes Bridgewater to look for other receivers and throws that are safer and perhaps less challenging for him to complete.

I could see this turning around for Wallace at some point still this season, but I think Diggs has earned Teddys trust more than Wallace has this season. That will extend to the coaches somewhat as well because Norv Turner has said they will play the players who make plays more than players who don't. Wallace is still the WR 2 by snap counts but I don't see him being targeted as much as he was in the first 3 weeks moving forward. Charles Johnson has been making plays which could lead to increased playing time for him at the expense of Wallace.

 

[apalmer]

Additionally, homers think that Brown is the better receiver. He is damn good, but Wallace is the better receiver.

Just to revisit this, within the last few days, Brown put up a 300 yard day which was one of the top 10 games in terms of yardage in the history of the league.

Meanwhile, Mike Wallace's Dolphins contract was called out by ESPN as one of the 25 worst contracts in football history (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14047374/ranking-25-worst-contracts-nfl-history-part-1)



I will never get tired of revisiting this thread. The levels of "wrongness" in here by TT haven't been seen since Custer.

Doesn't sound very fair to Custer.

 

[skycriesmary]

Jesus, this dude faded off the map. Change of scenery going to resurrect his career, or is he toast?

 

[FF Ninja]

Jesus, this dude faded off the map. Change of scenery going to resurrect his career, or is he toast?

Seriously. I would guess that in the right place he could still be very productive, but Minnesota isn't it. The team ranks 30th in the league in passing yards per game with 212 and dead last in passing touchdowns with 8. Hard to knock him when he's in that kind of situation, but at the same time, hard not to knock him when Charles Johnson missed time due to injury and a mid-round rookie is out producing him.

There's no way they keep him around for $11.5M next year. Maybe he has a Crabtree-esque resurgence in a place better suited for his skill set.

 

[Copeman]

This thread makes me laugh.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

This thread makes me laugh.

I flipped to that game yesterday just in time to see Wallace let a ball clang off his hands on an out route that would have gotten the Vikings a first down. Bridgewater hit him in stride, no defender coming at him, just plain dropped it. That was the only highlight I saw from him.

I actually feel bad for him at this point. I was kind of annoyed that he seemed to mail in a lot of his final season in Pittsburgh because they weren't dumb enough to give him $12 million a year, but he's fallen do far since then that now I just feel pity. Well, as much as you can feel for a guy getting paid more in one year to not catch footballs than I'll make in my entire life, that is. If he'd taken the Steelers' 5/50 offer, he'd probably be a perennial Pro Bowler, or at least close to it. He probably would have made the same money over the 5 years that he'll make after the Vikes cut him this offseason too. Only difference is that he'd have been able to sign another deal at prime money after that, now he's basically worthless.

I've never been so glad in retrospect that a player didn't re-sign with my team. If he signed that deal, they may not have been willing to extend Brown and he might have walked instead. :shudder:

 

[apalmer]

Jesus, this dude faded off the map. Change of scenery going to resurrect his career, or is he toast?

Seriously. I would guess that in the right place he could still be very productive, but Minnesota isn't it. The team ranks 30th in the league in passing yards per game with 212 and dead last in passing touchdowns with 8. Hard to knock him when he's in that kind of situation, but at the same time, hard not to knock him when Charles Johnson missed time due to injury and a mid-round rookie is out producing him.

There's no way they keep him around for $11.5M next year. Maybe he has a Crabtree-esque resurgence in a place better suited for his skill set.

Hard to knock Bridgewater when he's stuck with Wallace as a receiver.

 

[Godsbrother]

Jesus, this dude faded off the map. Change of scenery going to resurrect his career, or is he toast?

Seriously. I would guess that in the right place he could still be very productive, but Minnesota isn't it. The team ranks 30th in the league in passing yards per game with 212 and dead last in passing touchdowns with 8. Hard to knock him when he's in that kind of situation, but at the same time, hard not to knock him when Charles Johnson missed time due to injury and a mid-round rookie is out producing him.

There's no way they keep him around for $11.5M next year. Maybe he has a Crabtree-esque resurgence in a place better suited for his skill set.

Hard to knock Bridgewater when he's stuck with Wallace as a receiver.

I haven't watched enough of the Vikings to know what the problem is but when a team is ranked 30th in passing there is probably enough blame to spread around to the QB, o-line and WRs.

 

[FF Ninja]

Jesus, this dude faded off the map. Change of scenery going to resurrect his career, or is he toast?

Seriously. I would guess that in the right place he could still be very productive, but Minnesota isn't it. The team ranks 30th in the league in passing yards per game with 212 and dead last in passing touchdowns with 8. Hard to knock him when he's in that kind of situation, but at the same time, hard not to knock him when Charles Johnson missed time due to injury and a mid-round rookie is out producing him.

There's no way they keep him around for $11.5M next year. Maybe he has a Crabtree-esque resurgence in a place better suited for his skill set.

Hard to knock Bridgewater when he's stuck with Wallace as a receiver.

Where did I mention Bridgewater?

 

[SameSongNDance]

I dare someone to try to explain how he's still owned in 47% of Yahoo and 39% of ESPN leagues. He's WR105 in PPR.

 

[Arodin]

I dare someone to try to explain how he's still owned in 47% of Yahoo and 39% of ESPN leagues. He's WR105 in PPR.

I'll try...45% of yahoo leagues are public leagues with owners who haven't checked their lineups since they started 0-3 and lost Romo/Charles/Nelson/etc.

The other 2% are custom 30-team leagues that start 4WR and a flex?

 

[Warpig]

Minny is such a WR wasteland. Even Diggs is starting to disappear.

C. Patterson

C. Johnson

M. Wallace

The only person catching passes is Rudolph. Gross.

 

[Biabreakable]

Zimmer on Wallace: 'I Would Like Him Back' with Vikings

 

[dirtyjay]

Minny is such a WR wasteland. Even Diggs is starting to disappear.

C. Patterson

C. Johnson

M. Wallace

The only person catching passes is Rudolph. Gross.

Because Bridgewater isnt a good QB. He accounted for only 17 TDs. 17.

That is the fewest of any QB who played every game, and it is not close.

So it could be argued he is the worst QB in the league at production of those who are considered a franchise QB.

 

[Hankmoody]

Keep thinking that.

 

[cstu]

Minny is such a WR wasteland. Even Diggs is starting to disappear.

C. Patterson

C. Johnson

M. Wallace

The only person catching passes is Rudolph. Gross.

Because Bridgewater isnt a good QB. He accounted for only 17 TDs. 17.

That is the fewest of any QB who played every game, and it is not close.

So it could be argued he is the worst QB in the league at production of those who are considered a franchise QB.

Rk From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int TD% Int% Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A ANY/A Y/G W L T1 Carson Palmer 2004 2005 1-1 CIN NFL 29 29 608 941 64.61 6733 50 30 5.30 3.19 90.2 44 283 7.16 6.78 6.19 232.2 17 12 02 Kurt Warner 1998 1999 RAM NFL 17 16 329 510 64.51 4392 41 13 8.00 2.55 107.9 29 201 8.61 9.07 8.21 258.4 13 3 03 Roethlisberger 2004 2005 1-11 PIT NFL 26 25 364 563 64.65 5006 34 20 6.00 3.55 98.3 53 342 8.89 8.50 7.21 192.5 22 3 04 Bridgewater 2014 2015 1-32 MIN NFL 29 28 551 849 64.90 6150 28 21 3.30 2.47 87.0 83 556 7.24 6.79 5.59 212.1 17 11 0QB's who have completed 64% of their passes with a Y/A over 7.

His TD rate is low and his sacks are too high (career 8.9%).

Your expectations are too high if you think he should be better than this already.

 

[mr roboto]

Minny is such a WR wasteland. Even Diggs is starting to disappear.

C. Patterson

C. Johnson

M. Wallace

The only person catching passes is Rudolph. Gross.

Because Bridgewater isnt a good QB. He accounted for only 17 TDs. 17.

That is the fewest of any QB who played every game, and it is not close.

So it could be argued he is the worst QB in the league at production of those who are considered a franchise QB.

Don't confuse performance with production. The Vikings aren't starting him for your DFS fix.

 

[FF Ninja]

Minny is such a WR wasteland. Even Diggs is starting to disappear.

C. Patterson

C. Johnson

M. Wallace

The only person catching passes is Rudolph. Gross.

Because Bridgewater isnt a good QB. He accounted for only 17 TDs. 17.

That is the fewest of any QB who played every game, and it is not close.

So it could be argued he is the worst QB in the league at production of those who are considered a franchise QB.

Rk From To Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int TD% Int% Rate Sk Yds Y/A AY/A ANY/A Y/G W L T1 Carson Palmer 2004 2005 1-1 CIN NFL 29 29 608 941 64.61 6733 50 30 5.30 3.19 90.2 44 283 7.16 6.78 6.19 232.2 17 12 02 Kurt Warner 1998 1999 RAM NFL 17 16 329 510 64.51 4392 41 13 8.00 2.55 107.9 29 201 8.61 9.07 8.21 258.4 13 3 03 Roethlisberger 2004 2005 1-11 PIT NFL 26 25 364 563 64.65 5006 34 20 6.00 3.55 98.3 53 342 8.89 8.50 7.21 192.5 22 3 04 Bridgewater 2014 2015 1-32 MIN NFL 29 28 551 849 64.90 6150 28 21 3.30 2.47 87.0 83 556 7.24 6.79 5.59 212.1 17 11 0QB's who have completed 64% of their passes with a Y/A over 7.

His TD rate is low and his sacks are too high (career 8.9%).

Your expectations are too high if you think he should be better than this already.

This is not as meaningful as you think. Y/A and completion % are intertwined. If you complete a lot of passes, even if they are short, it increases your ypa over someone with a lot of incompletions. It would be more meaningful to state completion percentage and yards per completion. His TD/att is very poor and his TD:INT ratio is not good. If you use those two stats, he's probably in some pretty bad company.

Plus, Warner and Ben were WAY ahead of him on YPA and Palmer was pretty much carrying his team whereas Bridgewater is barely even a game manager. Palmer was 4th in the league in yards in 2005 and 1st in touchdowns (TB ranked 22 and 26 respectively despite playing all 16 games). Bridgewater's first two seasons aren't even in the same ballpark as Ben, Carson, or Kurt. Using those two stats to try to make a comparison is very misleading.

I should have prefaced this by saying I haven't formed a solid opinion on him. I just don't think your two stats mean anything. Bridgewater has been asked to do very little during his first two years and he has done very little. Not enough information to say he's good or bad. But if I had to guess, I'd say the tea leaves are indicating "mediocre".

 

[Faust]

I still remember a trade that went down in one of my leagues where Calvin Johnson was traded away for Mike Wallace plus a number of other depth players and a 2nd round rookie draft pick. The team owner who trades Calvin away for Wallace immediately starts crowing about how he fleeced the other team right after that trade goes down. As soon as a few of the other teams question the wisdom of making that trade he immediately posts the link to the following article:

Mike Wallace tops Calvin Johnson

The link above is an ESPN Insider article, so I have taken the liberty of posting another article that came out right after debunking it:

This Week In KC Joyner: Mike Wallace Is Better Than Calvin Johnson

As you can imagine the depth players didn't make up the drop off from Calvin to Mike Wallace and the 2nd round pick ended up being a bust, so to this day we are still having a good laugh over the "genius" of this trade.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Mike Wallace - WR - Vikings

Matt Vensel of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune predicts Mike Wallace won't be back with the Vikings next season.

It's a no-brainer. Wallace isn't worth his $11.45 million salary and it's unlikely he'd take a pay cut to stay with Minnesota. The Vikings are thin at wide receiver but Wallace isn't the solution. He hauled in just 39 catches for 473 yards and two touchdowns this season. Those were all career lows. The 29-year-old should fare better in a more pass-oriented offense but his days of being a top fantasy option are likely over.

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Jan 17 - 10:07 AM

 

[lod01]

I still remember a trade that went down in one of my leagues where Calvin Johnson was traded away for Mike Wallace plus a number of other depth players and a 2nd round rookie draft pick. The team owner who trades Calvin away for Wallace immediately starts crowing about how he fleeced the other team right after that trade goes down. As soon as a few of the other teams question the wisdom of making that trade he immediately posts the link to the following article:

Mike Wallace tops Calvin Johnson

The link above is an ESPN Insider article, so I have taken the liberty of posting another article that came out right after debunking it:

This Week In KC Joyner: Mike Wallace Is Better Than Calvin Johnson

As you can imagine the depth players didn't make up the drop off from Calvin to Mike Wallace and the 2nd round pick ended up being a bust, so to this day we are still having a good laugh over the "genius" of this trade.

Mike Wallace with a future HOF QB (Big Ben) vs Calvin and hack QBs and Calvin still smoked that loser every year. Wallace is a one trick pony and he's not even good at that unless he has a great QB. Dude is flat out garbage.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Additionally, homers think that Brown is the better receiver. He is damn good, but Wallace is the better receiver.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

The Minneapolis Star-Tribune's Matt Vensel doesn't expect Mike Wallace back with the Vikings in 2016.


At least not at his current $11.5 million cap number. The Vikings can release Wallace with zero dead-money hit on the salary cap, which makes this a complete no-brainer. Wallace posted a 39-473-2 line in his first season in Minnesota. The Vikings will move on with Stefon Diggs and Jarius Wright at the X and slot spots while looking for a big-bodied Z receiver on the outside.

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Feb 10 - 9:31 AM

 

[Faust]

Vikings cut Mike Wallace one year after trading for him, save $11.5M

 

[beef]

Was reading a rumor that Baltimore is interested at the right price.  Curious what that may be.

 

[B Maverick]

Was reading a rumor that Baltimore is interested at the right price.  Curious what that may be.

league minimum ?