This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
And on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??Everybody at my house over the age of 30 started discussing this on 1st down.
I'm 32 and I said that they should, my 28 year old wife asked me why. Maybe 30 is the magic age.You dont get it. Yes it was obviously the right call. The genius part was the idea to hold everyone. Were all you over 30s calling to hold to buy more time? Exactly
I believe the "penalty" for an infraction in the end zone IS the safety, so you don't get the points AND the distance off the free kick.
Phil Simms didn't think of it and he's 58. However, Jim Nantz did bring it up, and he's only 53.
A play like that should be unsportsmanlike conduct in my opinion. Too much advantage given to the punting team. I'd be surprised if they didn't change it. The issue is that it's a subjective penalty based on game situation (deliberate holding/tackling at the end of the game to waste time) so they need to implement it just right. Penalty could either be time back on the clock, say 5 seconds, or 15 yards on the free kick. Both of those could have made a difference last night, but the game was lost on the horrible play calling of the 49ers from the Ravens 7 yard line.
Which is where the genius part comes in.
YepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
Some call it common sense.'Leroy Hoard said:
then you would make for a terrible coachYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
First off, you would never have known that the punter would have run off as much time as he did.Situation A) So in saying that you would have to assume it would take at most 4 seconds to take the safety, maybe less. Leaving 12 seconds left. (in the scenario that there were 16 seconds left instead of 12) Now putting them within a FGThe free kick gets returned to around the 50, maybe less but maybe more. It takes about 5-6 seconds. Your down to 6-7 seconds. Situation B) You punt, even if its fair caught its going to take up atleast 8 seconds. A solid punt is about 45 yrds so lets say 40. They get the ball around the Balt 45 with now 8 seconds left. What position would you rather be in???Situation A) 6-7 seconds to get 10-15 yards and try a 52-55 yrd FG?Situation B) 8 seconds left to get a TD from the 45?Add the fact that Akers kicked a 63 yard FGYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
Don't be so sure, sonny. Years ago Buddy Ryan sent 3 or 4 extra players (14 or 15 guys!) on his punt team to a) stop the return and b) worse case - take time off the clock and repunt.We were also discussing the possibility of a fair catch kick, if the kick following the safety was short.You dont get it. Yes it was obviously the right call. The genius part was the idea to hold everyone. Were all you over 30s calling to hold to buy more time? Exactly
Resetting the clock makes sense...Agree that, penalty or not, the game situation doesn't change. The bigger issue is how do you not call such blatant penalties? There is a clear tendency to keep the flags in the pocket in the play-offs and more so in the SB. What's a penalty in week 5 should be a penalty now.
What's more important, imo, is that they stay consistent within the game. Call the 4th quarter the same way they did the 1st, which they did pretty well. It was borderline enough in the context of the game that it could've drawn a flag with little disagreement from impartial observers, but they were letting a ton go all game and everyone on the field knew it. Including Crabtree who got away with it two plays prior, and had been borderline himself on other plays throughout the game.
less likely to fumble on a straight run
how do you guys feel about tanking a ff game to get a better playoff match up?
I don't care one way or another about that, but things don't always work out like you expect them to.
care to give us an example?
Using the punter at least gives the impression that they might punt. Buys them a couple extra seconds and leads SF to keep a man deep for the punt (rather than up on the line trying to tackle the ball carrier).I guess they could have snapped it an up-back in the punt formation and had him run around, but then the ball is closer to the defenders. I think what they did killed more clock than any other formation/play would have.
You are being very generous with field position here. 40 yards on a punt under pressure from your own EZ, what do you think he gets from the 20 with no pressure and walking start? Also, with 6-7 seconds and no TO's you are getting one positive play that has to be a TD. No way the def is allowing you OOB and anything under 10 is not enough to clock it.Either way they have to get to the EZ with no TO's. The 3 point difference is not a factor and the gain in field position is significant.First off, you would never have known that the punter would have run off as much time as he did.Situation A) So in saying that you would have to assume it would take at most 4 seconds to take the safety, maybe less. Leaving 12 seconds left. (in the scenario that there were 16 seconds left instead of 12) Now putting them within a FGThe free kick gets returned to around the 50, maybe less but maybe more. It takes about 5-6 seconds. Your down to 6-7 seconds. Situation B) You punt, even if its fair caught its going to take up atleast 8 seconds. A solid punt is about 45 yrds so lets say 40. They get the ball around the Balt 45 with now 8 seconds left. What position would you rather be in???Situation A) 6-7 seconds to get 10-15 yards and try a 52-55 yrd FG?Situation B) 8 seconds left to get a TD from the 45?Add the fact that Akers kicked a 63 yard FGYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
what is this i dont even.
How do you feel about taking a delay of game if your kicker would rather have it moved 5 yards back? Cheating?
Imagine a basketball coach having his team down by 1 point with 20 seconds left and the other team having the ball. Then he just lets the other team run the clock out. Reporter: "Coach, why didn't you foul?"Coach: "well, I felt that would be cheating"
The only situation I'm familiar with is that they won't call holding if the player being held gets a sack. They'll even announce at times, "There is no penalty for holding on the offense because the player got a sack." I'm not aware of that applying anywhere else.
I'm not sure if their grades carry over to the next season. One reason they are graded during the season is to see who gets to ref in the playoffs and Super Bowl. So, I'm not sure how much incentive to do a good job is added from grading in the Super Bowl. Of course, they have an incentive to do a good job simply based on the desire to do a good job and not be ridiculed for the rest of their lives.
Wrong account?
On my phone
You have a separate account for your phone?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've never heard anything remotely similar to that. Would love to see a video of this. Even so, it goes against what the officials are supposed to be doing. If a guy is getting held, they are supposed to throw the flag. If he happens to get a sack, it doesn't make it not a hold...it gets declined. If they throw a flag for hands to the face, but after discussing with another official, they realize the first guy had a bad angle and it wasn't really a penalty, they still announce why there was no penalty. We saw this during the SB with a double offsides call against the Niners. There is literally no way for there to be two enforced penalties on the play, but they still said "offsides - 55, declined. Offsides - 99. 5 yards". The officials didn't throw flags because they failed at their job, likely for the same reason as a schmuck like Phil Simms: they got confused during a rare situation. What happens if - stupidly - the Baltimore punter, as he scrambled around the end zone, saw one of the Baltimore gunners was 20 yards downfield and chucked it to him for what ended up being a 95 yard game-clinching TD? "Sorry, we didn't throw a flag for holding because we assumed the safety would take place anyway and it would be declined."
huh ?and take an endless amount of penalties to run out the game clock.
I think I do remember seeing an exchange on NFL Network's "SoundFX" from SB45 where a Steeler's player is yelling at the ref for not calling holding and the ref says if it hadn't been a sack they would have. I have it on DVR still. I'll check when I get home.
I'd say deliberately breaking the rule and using the consequence to your advantage, fully aware of the penalty, is good strategy. Breaking rules and hoping to get away with it is cheating. As others have pointed out, teams use other rules violations to their advantage. Its a calculated risk where the team wants the penalty.You're trying to blur the line. And no, you haven't hit a nerve with me - you're just being purposely obtuse for the sake of being argumentative it seems.
Of course not.
He punted 47 yrds with no pressure, worst case he punts its 35. They still need a TD and I was being very generous saying a punt play only takes 8 seconds cause it takes longer than that. Also, you say that if there were 6 seconds left down 3 at the 50 that the only play is go for a TD?? DO YOU WATCH FOOTBALL? IF balt wants to play this whole no passes on the sideline then it opens up a chance for going for a TD and winning the game straight up. They would never leave themselves with that shot. SF runs a a couple guys down the field and Balt has to play to stop the TD. That means you can keep one guy breaking to either sideline or Kaep running it for 10 to 15.You are being very generous with field position here. 40 yards on a punt under pressure from your own EZ, what do you think he gets from the 20 with no pressure and walking start? Also, with 6-7 seconds and no TO's you are getting one positive play that has to be a TD. No way the def is allowing you OOB and anything under 10 is not enough to clock it.Either way they have to get to the EZ with no TO's. The 3 point difference is not a factor and the gain in field position is significant.First off, you would never have known that the punter would have run off as much time as he did.Situation A) So in saying that you would have to assume it would take at most 4 seconds to take the safety, maybe less. Leaving 12 seconds left. (in the scenario that there were 16 seconds left instead of 12) Now putting them within a FGThe free kick gets returned to around the 50, maybe less but maybe more. It takes about 5-6 seconds. Your down to 6-7 seconds. Situation B) You punt, even if its fair caught its going to take up atleast 8 seconds. A solid punt is about 45 yrds so lets say 40. They get the ball around the Balt 45 with now 8 seconds left. What position would you rather be in???Situation A) 6-7 seconds to get 10-15 yards and try a 52-55 yrd FG?Situation B) 8 seconds left to get a TD from the 45?Add the fact that Akers kicked a 63 yard FGYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
A free-kick punt actually goes about 10-12 yards further than normal recorded punts because they are kicking from the line of scrimmage. So a solid free-kick punt would be about 55-60 yards IMO.First off, you would never have known that the punter would have run off as much time as he did.Situation A) So in saying that you would have to assume it would take at most 4 seconds to take the safety, maybe less. Leaving 12 seconds left. (in the scenario that there were 16 seconds left instead of 12) Now putting them within a FGThe free kick gets returned to around the 50, maybe less but maybe more. It takes about 5-6 seconds. Your down to 6-7 seconds. Situation B) You punt, even if its fair caught its going to take up atleast 8 seconds. A solid punt is about 45 yrds so lets say 40. They get the ball around the Balt 45 with now 8 seconds left. What position would you rather be in???Situation A) 6-7 seconds to get 10-15 yards and try a 52-55 yrd FG?Situation B) 8 seconds left to get a TD from the 45?Add the fact that Akers kicked a 63 yard FGYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
Yeah Balt's kick was 60 yrds I think. But it got returned to the 50A free-kick punt actually goes about 10-12 yards further than normal recorded punts because they are kicking from the line of scrimmage. So a solid free-kick punt would be about 55-60 yards IMO.First off, you would never have known that the punter would have run off as much time as he did.Situation A) So in saying that you would have to assume it would take at most 4 seconds to take the safety, maybe less. Leaving 12 seconds left. (in the scenario that there were 16 seconds left instead of 12) Now putting them within a FGThe free kick gets returned to around the 50, maybe less but maybe more. It takes about 5-6 seconds. Your down to 6-7 seconds. Situation B) You punt, even if its fair caught its going to take up atleast 8 seconds. A solid punt is about 45 yrds so lets say 40. They get the ball around the Balt 45 with now 8 seconds left. What position would you rather be in???Situation A) 6-7 seconds to get 10-15 yards and try a 52-55 yrd FG?Situation B) 8 seconds left to get a TD from the 45?Add the fact that Akers kicked a 63 yard FGYepAnd on top of that, you say you thought of that on first down. If there was 16 seconds left on 4th down, you still think the punt is obvious??
That would have been hilarious... if he was moving forward, well, forward progress wouldn't have been stopped, eh?As far a genius goes, they should have used the Polish Goal Line Defense.'The_Man said:
Where indeed did 12punch come from and has he always been stupid?
