Barry or Emmitt? (1 Viewer)

[PatsFanCT]

It's Barry now, it was Barry then, and it will always be Barry going forward.

And it's not even close. Hell, it's not even a debate or opinion. It is pure fact.

 

[Truman]

Pure fact is Emmitt has more career rushing yards than Barry, and that's without even comparing playoff resumes.

 

[Yenrub]

Pulling out the grade school "quitter" tag just doesn't apply to guys playing in the NFL. Sanders played 10 years in a league that physically destroys players for life. He was an amazing talent that left his mark on the game & he got out on his own terms with his health intact. Good for him. He was the greatest running back I ever saw play & he did it with class.

The quitting thing is not a judgment on Barry, it's just a fact. Call it "walking away," call it riding off into the "sunset." Whatever you want to call it, he did it. And saying it's "grade school" doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why are we trying to put a positive spin on it? Don't bother with the saving his body argument, it's not a mystery why he left. He finally fessed up to it after a few years, he was sick of losing.And seriously man, how can you speculate what motivates a player to keep playing? I mean who are we to make that judgment? Jerry Rice's last few years weren't exactly epic. Favre's last year? You seriously think these guys only care about records and stats? Maybe it's just me, but I think walking away from a game you've probably played for 25+ years would be extremely emotional and difficult. It's such a dramatic change in their lives and everyone does it on their own terms. Some like Barry walk away early. Some like Elway have their career peek at just the right time. Some like Favre cling on as long as possible. Everyone falls somewhere in between.

Really, the Smith fans can't argue that Sanders was the better runner so we hear about the heart that Smith had, we hear about what a quitter that Sanders is. He quit on his team right before the season started, the team was not prepared, he quite because of the losing. How Sanders left the game should play no part in his assessment as a player, but it always is brought up.

In truth, Sanders retirement wasn't a surprise to the Lions at all, they just thought he was bluffing. Yes, Sanders mentioned that the losing got to him in the end. He also talked that he was tired of the constant rebuilding that the Lions were going through. They had drafted Charlie Batch & were planning to throw him in as the starter, let Glover go over a minor contract issue. They had also let another lineman (maybe Lomas Brown) go in that period.

My favorite quote from Sanders describing the situation was, "My desire to exit the game is greater than my desire to remain in it."

As you said, "I mean, who are we to make that judgement?" Right?

Good post, dude. I don't think it's fair to use the "quitting" to take away from what Barry actually did. But it does make me question his leadership and his impact on his peers, in terms of raising their level of play over the course of his 10 year career. For example, people often equate Smith's Week 17 Game where he injured his shoulder against the Giants with him being tough, but that was all leadership and heart, man. Single handedly carried his decimated team that day and secured a much needed 1st Round BYE that eventually resulted in a Super Bowl Title. While quitting is just one of the many arguments that Emmitt supporters have, the hands down #1 argument that Barry supporters have is the surrounding cast. But that in my mind is using Emmitt's strength and erroneously turning it against him. That team was as dominant as it was BECAUSE of Emmitt. He led and carried them, it was pretty clear how bad they played when he was hurt or when he was holding out. They didn't just plug in some backup and turn him loose.

Actually the #1 argument for Barry supports can be found in post 10 of this thread My linkFor the 9 seasons that Barry & Emmitt played in the NFL at the same time Barry gained more yards on less carries than Emmitt

 

[sspunisher]

Pulling out the grade school "quitter" tag just doesn't apply to guys playing in the NFL. Sanders played 10 years in a league that physically destroys players for life. He was an amazing talent that left his mark on the game & he got out on his own terms with his health intact. Good for him. He was the greatest running back I ever saw play & he did it with class.

The quitting thing is not a judgment on Barry, it's just a fact. Call it "walking away," call it riding off into the "sunset." Whatever you want to call it, he did it. And saying it's "grade school" doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why are we trying to put a positive spin on it? Don't bother with the saving his body argument, it's not a mystery why he left. He finally fessed up to it after a few years, he was sick of losing.And seriously man, how can you speculate what motivates a player to keep playing? I mean who are we to make that judgment? Jerry Rice's last few years weren't exactly epic. Favre's last year? You seriously think these guys only care about records and stats? Maybe it's just me, but I think walking away from a game you've probably played for 25+ years would be extremely emotional and difficult. It's such a dramatic change in their lives and everyone does it on their own terms. Some like Barry walk away early. Some like Elway have their career peek at just the right time. Some like Favre cling on as long as possible. Everyone falls somewhere in between.

Really, the Smith fans can't argue that Sanders was the better runner so we hear about the heart that Smith had, we hear about what a quitter that Sanders is. He quit on his team right before the season started, the team was not prepared, he quite because of the losing. How Sanders left the game should play no part in his assessment as a player, but it always is brought up.

In truth, Sanders retirement wasn't a surprise to the Lions at all, they just thought he was bluffing. Yes, Sanders mentioned that the losing got to him in the end. He also talked that he was tired of the constant rebuilding that the Lions were going through. They had drafted Charlie Batch & were planning to throw him in as the starter, let Glover go over a minor contract issue. They had also let another lineman (maybe Lomas Brown) go in that period.

My favorite quote from Sanders describing the situation was, "My desire to exit the game is greater than my desire to remain in it."

As you said, "I mean, who are we to make that judgement?" Right?

Good post, dude. I don't think it's fair to use the "quitting" to take away from what Barry actually did. But it does make me question his leadership and his impact on his peers, in terms of raising their level of play over the course of his 10 year career. For example, people often equate Smith's Week 17 Game where he injured his shoulder against the Giants with him being tough, but that was all leadership and heart, man. Single handedly carried his decimated team that day and secured a much needed 1st Round BYE that eventually resulted in a Super Bowl Title. While quitting is just one of the many arguments that Emmitt supporters have, the hands down #1 argument that Barry supporters have is the surrounding cast. But that in my mind is using Emmitt's strength and erroneously turning it against him. That team was as dominant as it was BECAUSE of Emmitt. He led and carried them, it was pretty clear how bad they played when he was hurt or when he was holding out. They didn't just plug in some backup and turn him loose.

Actually the #1 argument for Barry supports can be found in post 10 of this thread My linkFor the 9 seasons that Barry & Emmitt played in the NFL at the same time Barry gained more yards on less carries than Emmitt

This is a wild guess right here, but I'll go out on a limb and guess 60-70% of Emmitt's TDs were within the 5 yard line, which significantly drops his YPC. Same with short yardage situations where he was just diving for the marker. Who watched a lot of Detroit games way back in the day? I'm not sure if they had a speciality short yard back, but I'm sure Barry wasn't used in these situations as exclusively as Emmitt was.BTW, one real nasty argument against Barry was that TURF in Detroit. You can say it doesn't matter all you want, but it wasn't a coincidence that he disappeared in every single away playoff game the Lions ever had in the 90's. Emmitt thrived in the playoffs, he didn't disappear in them, home or away. Sure he played in way more playoff games, but go ahead and average the stats if you want, willing to bet Emmitt's yardage and TDs would blow Barry's away. I'm surprised how lopsided the voting is, not only here, but on NFL Network as well. Must be a Dallas thing, everyone hates the Cowboys.

 

[Yenrub]

Pulling out the grade school "quitter" tag just doesn't apply to guys playing in the NFL. Sanders played 10 years in a league that physically destroys players for life. He was an amazing talent that left his mark on the game & he got out on his own terms with his health intact. Good for him. He was the greatest running back I ever saw play & he did it with class.

The quitting thing is not a judgment on Barry, it's just a fact. Call it "walking away," call it riding off into the "sunset." Whatever you want to call it, he did it. And saying it's "grade school" doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why are we trying to put a positive spin on it? Don't bother with the saving his body argument, it's not a mystery why he left. He finally fessed up to it after a few years, he was sick of losing.And seriously man, how can you speculate what motivates a player to keep playing? I mean who are we to make that judgment? Jerry Rice's last few years weren't exactly epic. Favre's last year? You seriously think these guys only care about records and stats? Maybe it's just me, but I think walking away from a game you've probably played for 25+ years would be extremely emotional and difficult. It's such a dramatic change in their lives and everyone does it on their own terms. Some like Barry walk away early. Some like Elway have their career peek at just the right time. Some like Favre cling on as long as possible. Everyone falls somewhere in between.

Really, the Smith fans can't argue that Sanders was the better runner so we hear about the heart that Smith had, we hear about what a quitter that Sanders is. He quit on his team right before the season started, the team was not prepared, he quite because of the losing. How Sanders left the game should play no part in his assessment as a player, but it always is brought up.

In truth, Sanders retirement wasn't a surprise to the Lions at all, they just thought he was bluffing. Yes, Sanders mentioned that the losing got to him in the end. He also talked that he was tired of the constant rebuilding that the Lions were going through. They had drafted Charlie Batch & were planning to throw him in as the starter, let Glover go over a minor contract issue. They had also let another lineman (maybe Lomas Brown) go in that period.

My favorite quote from Sanders describing the situation was, "My desire to exit the game is greater than my desire to remain in it."

As you said, "I mean, who are we to make that judgement?" Right?

Good post, dude. I don't think it's fair to use the "quitting" to take away from what Barry actually did. But it does make me question his leadership and his impact on his peers, in terms of raising their level of play over the course of his 10 year career. For example, people often equate Smith's Week 17 Game where he injured his shoulder against the Giants with him being tough, but that was all leadership and heart, man. Single handedly carried his decimated team that day and secured a much needed 1st Round BYE that eventually resulted in a Super Bowl Title. While quitting is just one of the many arguments that Emmitt supporters have, the hands down #1 argument that Barry supporters have is the surrounding cast. But that in my mind is using Emmitt's strength and erroneously turning it against him. That team was as dominant as it was BECAUSE of Emmitt. He led and carried them, it was pretty clear how bad they played when he was hurt or when he was holding out. They didn't just plug in some backup and turn him loose.

Actually the #1 argument for Barry supports can be found in post 10 of this thread My linkFor the 9 seasons that Barry & Emmitt played in the NFL at the same time Barry gained more yards on less carries than Emmitt

This is a wild guess right here, but I'll go out on a limb and guess 60-70% of Emmitt's TDs were within the 5 yard line, which significantly drops his YPC. Same with short yardage situations where he was just diving for the marker. Who watched a lot of Detroit games way back in the day? I'm not sure if they had a speciality short yard back, but I'm sure Barry wasn't used in these situations as exclusively as Emmitt was.BTW, one real nasty argument against Barry was that TURF in Detroit. You can say it doesn't matter all you want, but it wasn't a coincidence that he disappeared in every single away playoff game the Lions ever had in the 90's. Emmitt thrived in the playoffs, he didn't disappear in them, home or away. Sure he played in way more playoff games, but go ahead and average the stats if you want, willing to bet Emmitt's yardage and TDs would blow Barry's away. I'm surprised how lopsided the voting is, not only here, but on NFL Network as well. Must be a Dallas thing, everyone hates the Cowboys.

A few years ago I think the Sporting News had Barry significantly higher than Emmitt

 

[BSanders2009]

Guys,

I think the poll itself tells the whole story here. I can see if it was 60-40 or 50-50 but OVER 80% SUPPORT BARRY SANDERS. That's not a coincidence or a product of sampling error when there is that much of a discrepancies in votes. If you notice, about 50% of the posts are Emmitt supporters while only 17% of the pollers believe Emmitt is king here. They're fishing for believers...You will never be able to change their mind, no matter what facts you throw at them. So, just let them continue on in their fantasy land where Emmitt rules. LOL However, this debate is OVER!! The fat lady has sung!

 

[Shane Falco]

Pure fact is Emmitt has more career rushing yards played many more games than Barry, and that's without even comparing playoff resumes.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Barry Sanders ran behind a good offensive line. All you ever hear is how great Barry would have been if he had the Cowboy O-line.....he had a good one. It wasn't as good ad the Cowboy line but it was good, probably the Lions O-line hasn't been as solid as that O-line since.Barry Sanders did things Emmitt Smith couldn't do. His ability to stop and go a different direction was phenominal, best I've ever seen at it. Barry was a fantastic runner but was not the leader the Lions needed him to be. Barry didn't need a different O-line, Barry needed someone on the Lions who was a true leader to help take that burden off his shoulders. Barry ended his career by quitting on his team and left them with very little time to fill a huge gap before the start of the season and helped send the Lions into a huge tailspin.Emmitt Smith doesn't get the credit he deserves due to playing on a great team but he was the best player of the bunch and that alone should tell you something. Emmitt was a great team leader, played well when it counted most and if the Cowboys had a chance to trade Emmitt straight up for Barry looking back at how everything went down they would not pull that trigger.As a Cowboy fan but native Detroiter for 40 years I've battled this argument with friends soooooo many times it hurts my head. I'm fine with the fact that people under appreciate what Emmitt Smith did to become the all time rushing leader in NFL history and ignore how weird it was when Barry's father had to speak for him in the Detroit papers and then Barry quit.Nobody can ever knock Barry for his ridiculous moves as a runner but I can knock him for how he chose to end his career. As a Cowboy fan, I would never give up what Emmitt did for Dallas compared to what Barry did for Detroit.Barry Sanders even today isn't around the Lions, one of their greatest players ever. It is just odd to me how he just disappeared.Barry over Emmitt as a runner but there's a lot more that goes into football than just being a runner and Emmitt's accomplishments in his life speaks to that.

I just couldn't disagree more with how you have the 2 pegged. Sanders always came off as a quite, humble person who never wanted the spotlight on him. The way he retired didn't surprise me a bit, it was totally in character for him. Every player retires, some stick around till they are no longer effective & are thrown out. Sanders left on his own terms, leaving at the top of his game. Records meant very little to Sanders, who as a rookie, needed 10 yards to lead the NFL but decided not to reenter the final game once the game was in hand. He also chose to retire with the all time rushing record in his sight, it just wasn't important to him in the overall picture.Smith was the opposite, after scoring a TD Smith would tear off his helmet & run to the cameras. They actually created a rule to eliminate that practice because of him. He hung around piling up yardage as a shell of his all pro days, in order to add as many yards to his record as possible. It was his driving force over his last few seasons. He was a guy that always layed out on the ground after a big hit, drawing attention to himself, even though you knew he was getting up & wasn't hurt. We used to have a drinking game where everyone chugged a beer every time Smith would lay on the ground until the announcers questioned whether he was hurt. After he retires he embarrasses himself as an announcer because he loves the limelight.One loved the spotlight, while the other didn't want anything to do with it.

This is a very bias way of looking at it, which is why you disagree with my view as much as you said. The way he retired was a disrespect to his remaining teammates as well as the millions of fans in Detroit which you conviently left out of your entire argument. He retired/quit very close to the beginning of the season leaving Detroit in a tailspin, he retired with his Dad basically giving the information to the Detroit papers and media instead of himself, to say the least it was very odd at the time.When I saw all that behavior, I started to think back at him just handing the football to the refs after a TD. I wondered if it wasn't so much as being humble or was it some sort of lack of confidence in his personality. I don't know so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he deserves it but still, if I'm being honest those kind of thoughts ran through my mind as he left the NFL shortly before the next season started.Then the way you spin how Emmitt ran to the cameras...come on, the guy scored a ton of huge TD's, he hardly ran to the camera after each TD. If you saw him run and it was close to a camera, then I guess that's how you're making your argument. I saw just about every Dallas game when he was playing and I can't say he was the kind of player who would run to a camera after a TD. He was the kind of player who would run to the center of the field and slam down a football on the Dallas star after Terrell Owens disrespected the star as a leadership move. Do you think if Barry Sanders was in that position he would have ran to the center and slammed down the ball? I don't, I'm positive of it and I think it was cool of Emmitt to do that after what Terell Owens did back then. Sometimes you need more than just flipping the ball to the ref when you're the type of player Barry Sanders was for the Detroit Lions.FWIW, I am not a Dallas slappy who thinks they can do no wrong. I am very critical of the Cowboys and if you ever visit the Cowboy thread during the season I'm often add odds with how they do things and of players. I love Barry Sanders and one of the coolest moments I have experienced at a NFL game was when 88,000 fans at a soldout Silverdome game was just chanting, BARRY, BARRY, BARRY after he had an incredible afternoon. So I get what Barry is to Detroit but he was not a player without flaws as so many seem to forget over time.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Put Barry behind that Dallas O line and he probably owns all the RB records

The Cowboys would have never traded Emmitt for Barry.

No one is saying that, lol.Why do people post a response to something that wasnt even mentioned? Dang voices in their head!

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Pure fact is Emmitt has more career rushing yards than Barry, and that's without even comparing playoff resumes.

Dude, look at previous posts, we compared stats, Emmitt looks like a padestrian compared to Barry.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Since Barry only played 10 years we will use the first 10 years of Emmitt's career.Barry had 3062 carries for 15,269 yards, an average of 1526.9 yards a year, and a 5.0 ypc average.Emmitt had 3243 carries for 13,963 yards, and average of 1396.3 yards per year, and a 4.3 ypc average.More carries and Less yards for Emmitt? That don't seem right of someone who should win this battle.Emmitt did have more TDs thru that time, but thats a by product of the team you are on being better.

For people who dont like to look at previous posts a page back because its too much work.Here it is again. I think this is very telling.

 

[Shane Falco]

Put Barry behind that Dallas O line and he probably owns all the RB records

The Cowboys would have never traded Emmitt for Barry.

No one is saying that, lol.Why do people post a response to something that wasnt even mentioned? Dang voices in their head!

and a wrong response at that. Jerry Jones would have made that move in a heartbeat just for the publicity

 

[mcd]

Just to throw some facts on the thought that Emmitt was a TD machine & Sanders was so bad that the Lions pulled him when in scoring position. Emmitt scored 164 TDs on 4409 carries, or on .037% of his runs. Sanders scored 99 TDs on 3062 runs, or .032% of his runs. For a guy that was pulled at the goal line, Sanders is remarkably close in percentage of TD runs, much closer than I would have thought considering Sanders didn't get the one or two yard plunges that Smith did. To put in perspective, Walter Payton was at .028%.

 

[sspunisher]

Guys,I think the poll itself tells the whole story here. I can see if it was 60-40 or 50-50 but OVER 80% SUPPORT BARRY SANDERS. That's not a coincidence or a product of sampling error when there is that much of a discrepancies in votes. If you notice, about 50% of the posts are Emmitt supporters while only 17% of the pollers believe Emmitt is king here. They're fishing for believers...You will never be able to change their mind, no matter what facts you throw at them. So, just let them continue on in their fantasy land where Emmitt rules. LOL However, this debate is OVER!! The fat lady has sung!

I can't speak for all the Pro-Emmitt guys, but I'm not fishing for supporters, I'm fishing for a good debate. Ignoring someone's data and just rambling off your own stats isn't a debate, that's just blindly believing in your idea no matter what someone else says. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how Barry disappeared in the playoffs when his team wasn't at home.On a somewhat related note. I just finished taking a Logic/Philosophy course last semester. The entire class was about arguing and putting together good arguments vs bad arguments. It was a boring class at first but it's amazing how it applies to the way people argue football. "Appealing to Popularity." Lol, google it.

 

[mcd]

Guys,I think the poll itself tells the whole story here. I can see if it was 60-40 or 50-50 but OVER 80% SUPPORT BARRY SANDERS. That's not a coincidence or a product of sampling error when there is that much of a discrepancies in votes. If you notice, about 50% of the posts are Emmitt supporters while only 17% of the pollers believe Emmitt is king here. They're fishing for believers...You will never be able to change their mind, no matter what facts you throw at them. So, just let them continue on in their fantasy land where Emmitt rules. LOL However, this debate is OVER!! The fat lady has sung!

I can't speak for all the Pro-Emmitt guys, but I'm not fishing for supporters, I'm fishing for a good debate. Ignoring someone's data and just rambling off your own stats isn't a debate, that's just blindly believing in your idea no matter what someone else says. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how Barry disappeared in the playoffs when his team wasn't at home.On a somewhat related note. I just finished taking a Logic/Philosophy course last semester. The entire class was about arguing and putting together good arguments vs bad arguments. It was a boring class at first but it's amazing how it applies to the way people argue football. "Appealing to Popularity." Lol, google it.

Well, a four game sample size is rather small. In 3 of the 4 games Sanders didn't get 15 carries, which would imply to me that the opponents defense was overplaying Sanders, leaving Detroit little option but to look elsewhere.I specifically remember both the Packers & Eagles games, where Sanders couldn't get out of the backfield because the defense was stacked to stop him. Really, Krieg completed less than 50% of his passes against a Packer team that was sitting 8 men in the box on nearly every play. Sanders averaged negative yards in that game, if you saw the game GB sold out & had Sanders in the backfield every time he touched the ball. In the Eagles game Mitchell threw 4 int. in the first half, they were down by 38-7 at half & Sanders carried the ball 10 times as they basically threw every play.Not defending Sanders over that 4 game span, but I took it as how one dimensional the Lions really were when facing a quality opponent.

 

[cobalt_27]

Pure fact is Emmitt has more career rushing yards than Barry, and that's without even comparing playoff resumes.

Yup. More yards, more heart, more rings.Emmitt > Barry

 

[sspunisher]

Guys,I think the poll itself tells the whole story here. I can see if it was 60-40 or 50-50 but OVER 80% SUPPORT BARRY SANDERS. That's not a coincidence or a product of sampling error when there is that much of a discrepancies in votes. If you notice, about 50% of the posts are Emmitt supporters while only 17% of the pollers believe Emmitt is king here. They're fishing for believers...You will never be able to change their mind, no matter what facts you throw at them. So, just let them continue on in their fantasy land where Emmitt rules. LOL However, this debate is OVER!! The fat lady has sung!

I can't speak for all the Pro-Emmitt guys, but I'm not fishing for supporters, I'm fishing for a good debate. Ignoring someone's data and just rambling off your own stats isn't a debate, that's just blindly believing in your idea no matter what someone else says. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how Barry disappeared in the playoffs when his team wasn't at home.On a somewhat related note. I just finished taking a Logic/Philosophy course last semester. The entire class was about arguing and putting together good arguments vs bad arguments. It was a boring class at first but it's amazing how it applies to the way people argue football. "Appealing to Popularity." Lol, google it.

Well, a four game sample size is rather small. In 3 of the 4 games Sanders didn't get 15 carries, which would imply to me that the opponents defense was overplaying Sanders, leaving Detroit little option but to look elsewhere.I specifically remember both the Packers & Eagles games, where Sanders couldn't get out of the backfield because the defense was stacked to stop him. Really, Krieg completed less than 50% of his passes against a Packer team that was sitting 8 men in the box on nearly every play. Sanders averaged negative yards in that game, if you saw the game GB sold out & had Sanders in the backfield every time he touched the ball. In the Eagles game Mitchell threw 4 int. in the first half, they were down by 38-7 at half & Sanders carried the ball 10 times as they basically threw every play.Not defending Sanders over that 4 game span, but I took it as how one dimensional the Lions really were when facing a quality opponent.

Yea I just wonder why he gets the benefit of the doubt while other players, coaches or even teams are crucified for not producing when it counts in the form of playoff wins and championships. Barry's YPC truly is amazing considering how long he sustained it for. I'm definitely not losing sight of that. But the great ones are notorious for taking over a game when it counts. I guess it just makes me wonder why people dismiss the holes in Barry's resume so easily when they talk about him.

 

[bonesman]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Just to throw some facts on the thought that Emmitt was a TD machine & Sanders was so bad that the Lions pulled him when in scoring position. Emmitt scored 164 TDs on 4409 carries, or on .037% of his runs. Sanders scored 99 TDs on 3062 runs, or .032% of his runs. For a guy that was pulled at the goal line, Sanders is remarkably close in percentage of TD runs, much closer than I would have thought considering Sanders didn't get the one or two yard plunges that Smith did. To put in perspective, Walter Payton was at .028%.

Did you say that with a straight face? I can't read it with one.

 

[cobalt_27]

Just to throw some facts on the thought that Emmitt was a TD machine & Sanders was so bad that the Lions pulled him when in scoring position. Emmitt scored 164 TDs on 4409 carries, or on .037% of his runs. Sanders scored 99 TDs on 3062 runs, or .032% of his runs. For a guy that was pulled at the goal line, Sanders is remarkably close in percentage of TD runs, much closer than I would have thought considering Sanders didn't get the one or two yard plunges that Smith did. To put in perspective, Walter Payton was at .028%.

Did you say that with a straight face? I can't read it with one.

Your comprehension skills are PADESTRIAN. He's agreeing with you.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

Just to throw some facts on the thought that Emmitt was a TD machine & Sanders was so bad that the Lions pulled him when in scoring position. Emmitt scored 164 TDs on 4409 carries, or on .037% of his runs. Sanders scored 99 TDs on 3062 runs, or .032% of his runs. For a guy that was pulled at the goal line, Sanders is remarkably close in percentage of TD runs, much closer than I would have thought considering Sanders didn't get the one or two yard plunges that Smith did. To put in perspective, Walter Payton was at .028%.

Did you say that with a straight face? I can't read it with one.

Your comprehension skills are PADESTRIAN. He's agreeing with you.

Typos is your response? reallys, LOLHave you tried typing from this blackberry?

Either way, your in the minority, so continue to make your case. But the first 10 years of Emmitts career compared to the 10 years of Barrys career aint even close. Continue with records and TDs, but its clear the board does not agree with you. So attack away.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

 

[Go Blue]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I understand the records and Emmitt is a good RB, no doubt. I just don't understand how anyone can say that because he ran for more yards, he's a better RB. Obviously if you play on a better team, your going to have more chances to score Td's. Your going to question Barry's heart becuase he was sick of losing??? Seriously?? I'm pretty sure we all know that winning is MUCH more fun than losing. Why don't you ask Carson Palmer.

Vinny Testeverde passed for 6K more career yards than Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas. That's a big difference. Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring and Dan Marino doesn't. The facts are that Montana and Unitas are head and shoulders above Testeverde, just as Marino is head and shoulders above Dilfer. Sometimes the better players don't put up the stats that the other players do because they didn't play as long.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I understand the records and Emmitt is a good RB, no doubt. I just don't understand how anyone can say that because he ran for more yards, he's a better RB. Obviously if you play on a better team, your going to have more chances to score Td's. Your going to question Barry's heart becuase he was sick of losing??? Seriously?? I'm pretty sure we all know that winning is MUCH more fun than losing. Why don't you ask Carson Palmer.

Vinny Testeverde passed for 6K more career yards than Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas. That's a big difference. Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring and Dan Marino doesn't. The facts are that Montana and Unitas are head and shoulders above Testeverde, just as Marino is head and shoulders above Dilfer. Sometimes the better players don't put up the stats that the other players do because they didn't play as long.

I never said that because he ran for more yards he is a better RB. I'd say to most who side with Emmitt, that's only an interesting datapoint in the entire equation. Nobody disputes that Barry was a superior runner to practically everyone who played the game. But, as anyone who played the game also knows, particularly those who played the RB position, there is a lot more to a RB than shifting in and out of traffic. Barry had gaps in his repertoire. He couldn't get the tough yard, his improvisation killed drives, he was a sub-par blocker on pass plays, and he was mostly a sullen, sulking figure on the sidelines, and he quit the game of football and abandoned his teammates in a selfish act because at least 51% of him wanted to quit, so he did. There's a lot that goes into being a great teammate and a great RB. Running with the football is a huge part of it, and I think his statistics (and this poll) reveal just how important that contribution is. But, those who lived in the Emmitt era, saw him punish teams week in and week out every single ####### year for a decade+...that's what leads to the yards, the TDs, the heart, the rings. Barry doesn't hold a coin to Emmitt in any of the things that matter most. But, he's got you guys and your 80%, which I'm sure makes him feel swell.

 

[BSanders2009]

I never said that because he ran for more yards he is a better RB. I'd say to most who side with Emmitt, that's only an interesting datapoint in the entire equation. Nobody disputes that Barry was a superior runner to practically everyone who played the game. But, as anyone who played the game also knows, particularly those who played the RB position, there is a lot more to a RB than shifting in and out of traffic. Barry had gaps in his repertoire. He couldn't get the tough yard, his improvisation killed drives, he was a sub-par blocker on pass plays, and he was mostly a sullen, sulking figure on the sidelines, and he quit the game of football and abandoned his teammates in a selfish act because at least 51% of him wanted to quit, so he did. There's a lot that goes into being a great teammate and a great RB. Running with the football is a huge part of it, and I think his statistics (and this poll) reveal just how important that contribution is. But, those who lived in the Emmitt era, saw him punish teams week in and week out every single ####### year for a decade+...that's what leads to the yards, the TDs, the heart, the rings. Barry doesn't hold a coin to Emmitt in any of the things that matter most. But, he's got you guys and your 80%, which I'm sure makes him feel swell.

"Sulking on the sideline"????? What were you watching on the sideline? Barry never complained publicly, he never bashed his teams and was probably the most humble player to play the game. His behaviour on and off the field was unmatched.And regarding your claim of Emmitt punishing teams week in and week out, the GUY AVERAGED 1.26 YPC after first contact vs Barry's 3.7. That doesn't sound too punishing to me!! When are these Emmitt preachers going to admit that the offensive line had ALOT to do with his sucess. And despite the benefit of his O-line, Barry still outrushed him each season on average by more than 100 per season on significantly less carries. And it was documented that Barry's TD/rush ratio was not far offat all from Emmitt despite being removed from goal line rushes as Fontes' attempt to preserve Barry.As for the rest of your arguments, as well as sspunisher, they are so out there that they're not even worth arguing.This is not a close debate.

 

[adrenaline]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I understand the records and Emmitt is a good RB, no doubt. I just don't understand how anyone can say that because he ran for more yards, he's a better RB. Obviously if you play on a better team, your going to have more chances to score Td's. Your going to question Barry's heart becuase he was sick of losing??? Seriously?? I'm pretty sure we all know that winning is MUCH more fun than losing. Why don't you ask Carson Palmer.

Vinny Testeverde passed for 6K more career yards than Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas. That's a big difference. Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring and Dan Marino doesn't. The facts are that Montana and Unitas are head and shoulders above Testeverde, just as Marino is head and shoulders above Dilfer. Sometimes the better players don't put up the stats that the other players do because they didn't play as long.

I never said that because he ran for more yards he is a better RB. I'd say to most who side with Emmitt, that's only an interesting datapoint in the entire equation. Nobody disputes that Barry was a superior runner to practically everyone who played the game. But, as anyone who played the game also knows, particularly those who played the RB position, there is a lot more to a RB than shifting in and out of traffic. Barry had gaps in his repertoire. He couldn't get the tough yard, his improvisation killed drives, he was a sub-par blocker on pass plays, and he was mostly a sullen, sulking figure on the sidelines, and he quit the game of football and abandoned his teammates in a selfish act because at least 51% of him wanted to quit, so he did. There's a lot that goes into being a great teammate and a great RB. Running with the football is a huge part of it, and I think his statistics (and this poll) reveal just how important that contribution is. But, those who lived in the Emmitt era, saw him punish teams week in and week out every single ####### year for a decade+...that's what leads to the yards, the TDs, the heart, the rings. Barry doesn't hold a coin to Emmitt in any of the things that matter most. But, he's got you guys and your 80%, which I'm sure makes him feel swell.

It's just 80% of us realize that a lot of RBs could have done what Smith did on that Dallas team, we also realize very few in history could do what Barry did.

 

[cobalt_27]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I understand the records and Emmitt is a good RB, no doubt. I just don't understand how anyone can say that because he ran for more yards, he's a better RB. Obviously if you play on a better team, your going to have more chances to score Td's. Your going to question Barry's heart becuase he was sick of losing??? Seriously?? I'm pretty sure we all know that winning is MUCH more fun than losing. Why don't you ask Carson Palmer.

Vinny Testeverde passed for 6K more career yards than Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas. That's a big difference. Trent Dilfer has a Superbowl ring and Dan Marino doesn't. The facts are that Montana and Unitas are head and shoulders above Testeverde, just as Marino is head and shoulders above Dilfer. Sometimes the better players don't put up the stats that the other players do because they didn't play as long.

I never said that because he ran for more yards he is a better RB. I'd say to most who side with Emmitt, that's only an interesting datapoint in the entire equation. Nobody disputes that Barry was a superior runner to practically everyone who played the game. But, as anyone who played the game also knows, particularly those who played the RB position, there is a lot more to a RB than shifting in and out of traffic. Barry had gaps in his repertoire. He couldn't get the tough yard, his improvisation killed drives, he was a sub-par blocker on pass plays, and he was mostly a sullen, sulking figure on the sidelines, and he quit the game of football and abandoned his teammates in a selfish act because at least 51% of him wanted to quit, so he did. There's a lot that goes into being a great teammate and a great RB. Running with the football is a huge part of it, and I think his statistics (and this poll) reveal just how important that contribution is. But, those who lived in the Emmitt era, saw him punish teams week in and week out every single ####### year for a decade+...that's what leads to the yards, the TDs, the heart, the rings. Barry doesn't hold a coin to Emmitt in any of the things that matter most. But, he's got you guys and your 80%, which I'm sure makes him feel swell.

It's just 80% of us realize that a lot of RBs could have done what Smith did on that Dallas team, we also realize very few in history could do what Barry did.

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

 

[adrenaline]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

 

[Truman]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

 

[spider321]

Just like the poll results...NO CONTEST.

Next...

 

[adrenaline]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

How is a link to a rant in post 94 real data compared to post 30? If you're disputing the facts in post 30 prove them wrong. The arguement in the (94) link is Smith was still good on a mediocre Cowboys team 1998-2000. Yes Smith did make the pro bowl in 1998 & 1999 and he did still have multiple pro bowl OLs those 2 years. Sanders only had multiple pro bowl OLs 1 season his entire career. < See how I was able to look that up without a link to real data from you.

 

[Tau837]

With regard to the references to short yardage, I Googled for splits and found splits at ESPN beginning in 1993. ESPN uses down and distance splits of 1-2 yards to go and 3-7 yards to go (and others less applicable to short yardage, like <6 to go and 6+ to go, etc.). So I added up the 1-2 yards to go splits for all downs and used those to represent a look at short yardage carries

Sanders from 1993 to 1998: 175/750/11 (4.29 ypc); those were 9.3% of his carries; average of 29.2 carries per season

Smith from 1993 to 2004: 452/1380/63 (3.05 ypc); those were 13.2% of his carries; average of 37.7 carries per season

Comments:

1. As expected, Emmitt has a greater % of short yardage carries. There are likely multiple reasons for this, but the margin here (3.9% more short yardage carries as a percentage of overall carries) is probably narrower than many may have expected. He played on a better team and in a better offense, which provided more short yardage opportunities.

2. Sanders definitely wasn't as bad as people think at short yardage. 4.29 ypc with 1-2 yards to go is ridiculously good. His coaches probably did Sanders and the Lions a disservice by not giving him more short yardage opportunities.

3. This isn't really conclusive, since it is likely that Smith had a greater percentage of his short yardage carries close to the goal line, thus limiting the length of his runs. This took too long for me to also compile the carries within the opposing 10 yard line, which is as close as these ESPN splits get.

All that said, I don't think the fact that Smith had a greater percentage of short yardage runs comes close to explaining away the difference in their ypc. He averaged 8.5 more such carries per season... not a big deal.

 

[mcd]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

Really?? The only information in your quoted post conveniently chooses a time frame that excludes Sanders. So Smith ran for 3900 yards over a 3 year span when he was 29-31 years old. Unfortunately Sanders only played till he was 30 so lets not even look at that. So some guys opinion piece that excludes Sanders from the study is your "real data"?Carry on!

 

[adrenaline]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

Really?? The only information in your quoted post conveniently chooses a time frame that excludes Sanders. So Smith ran for 3900 yards over a 3 year span when he was 29-31 years old. Unfortunately Sanders only played till he was 30 so lets not even look at that. So some guys opinion piece that excludes Sanders from the study is your "real data"?Carry on!

If you reread that you will see that I in fact didn't choose the time period, one of your fellow Emmitt supporters did. Do you have something to contribute?

 

[mcd]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

Really?? The only information in your quoted post conveniently chooses a time frame that excludes Sanders. So Smith ran for 3900 yards over a 3 year span when he was 29-31 years old. Unfortunately Sanders only played till he was 30 so lets not even look at that. So some guys opinion piece that excludes Sanders from the study is your "real data"?Carry on!

If you reread that you will see that I in fact didn't choose the time period, one of your fellow Emmitt supporters did. Do you have something to contribute?

If you reread my post you will see it's not directed at you, but at Truman reost 94. I'm not sure how it could be read any other way, if you still don't understand let me know & I'll walk you through it.

 

[adrenaline]

You present this assertion as though it can be empirically validated. Can you provide data to support this argument. Show your work.Otherwise, you're using mysticism to extrapolate the proposed outcomes here, and I'm cool with that and all. Makes for good beer games. But, as a stand-alone argument, feel free to duck now before you get slaughtered by dataheads know a thing or two about decimating these types of flimsy arguments.

Besides 80% of us being able to see this there's some pretty good data in post #30 that Emmitt supporters haven't touched.

There's a stream of consciousness rant without a source if that's what you mean. We know Barry didn't have the vision Emmitt did so I don't know how relevant the 'data' is anyway. Emmitt was great at following his blockers, that will mean you don't take as much contact.Still waiting on a response to real data in post #94 that is sourced and linked.

Really?? The only information in your quoted post conveniently chooses a time frame that excludes Sanders. So Smith ran for 3900 yards over a 3 year span when he was 29-31 years old. Unfortunately Sanders only played till he was 30 so lets not even look at that. So some guys opinion piece that excludes Sanders from the study is your "real data"?Carry on!

If you reread that you will see that I in fact didn't choose the time period, one of your fellow Emmitt supporters did. Do you have something to contribute?

If you reread my post you will see it's not directed at you, but at Truman reost 94. I'm not sure how it could be read any other way, if you still don't understand let me know & I'll walk you through it.

Oops.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

debated to death and half the people are on the wrong side of the argument

What half is that?... it looks more like > 5:1 in favor of Barry. I'd assume the other 20 percent are Cowboys fans or possibly former owners.

Approximately 80% of the SP has no idea what they're looking at when they watch football. So that sounds about right.

What is going on here? I guess this explains why some people are not taken seriously on the board.I wouldnt be going around on one of the best football sites calling people who are in the majority idiots, when its clear your in the minority.

Relax. I've been around long enough to see this same thread started a gazillion times before you even signed on to FBG. You'll get accustomed to the hyperbole shtick before too long.

I've learned on this board, people dont like the schtik, so continue as you will. But I'll just stick to the facts....and a nice facts is the vote count, lol.

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

Do you even read what you type before you post it? You said Barry had no heart? How do you even compare that when its obvious they both had heart? First off...this thread really should have no bashing of to that extreme, as they were both fantastic.This is the most off base post, not to mention saying some one has more heart is by definition an opinion. Were you not in school that day when they were teaching about facts and opinions?

Cobalt, you are full of schtik, and you expect to earn respect or be taken seriously? Its funny to watch you cave on your schtik in front of everyone. I use to be just like you when it came to posting, full of schtik, then I realized everyone hates schtik...and the people who use it. :X

 

[cobalt_27]

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

:X

Emmitt has the heart, the rings, the yards, the touchdowns. Barry quit on his team and his fans. Those are the facts of the case. You just hyperventilated and vomited smilies on the board.

Now, if you want to compare post-career achievements, Barry wins hands down. I don't know what the hell he's doing with his life--or what he's quit since football--but I am pretty sure he hasn't been the ###-clown that Emmitt has been in his post-retirement life.

See, I can be fair and balance. Enjoy your day.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

:X

Emmitt has the heart, the rings, the yards, the touchdowns. Barry quit on his team and his fans. Those are the facts of the case. You just hyperventilated and vomited smilies on the board.

Now, if you want to compare post-career achievements, Barry wins hands down. I don't know what the hell he's doing with his life--or what he's quit since football--but I am pretty sure he hasn't been the ###-clown that Emmitt has been in his post-retirement life.

See, I can be fair and balance. Enjoy your day.

Here is the poll PFT just started this morning, notice how many more votes Barry has, its not even close---> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/the-emmitt-vs-barry-poll/

 

[cobalt_27]

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

:X

Emmitt has the heart, the rings, the yards, the touchdowns. Barry quit on his team and his fans. Those are the facts of the case. You just hyperventilated and vomited smilies on the board.

Now, if you want to compare post-career achievements, Barry wins hands down. I don't know what the hell he's doing with his life--or what he's quit since football--but I am pretty sure he hasn't been the ###-clown that Emmitt has been in his post-retirement life.

See, I can be fair and balance. Enjoy your day.

Here is the poll PFT just started this morning, notice how many more votes Barry has, its not even close---> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/the-emmitt-vs-barry-poll/

Looks like 10% know how to pick a winner...and the best RB of the two. Good for them.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

:X

Emmitt has the heart, the rings, the yards, the touchdowns. Barry quit on his team and his fans. Those are the facts of the case. You just hyperventilated and vomited smilies on the board.

Now, if you want to compare post-career achievements, Barry wins hands down. I don't know what the hell he's doing with his life--or what he's quit since football--but I am pretty sure he hasn't been the ###-clown that Emmitt has been in his post-retirement life.

See, I can be fair and balance. Enjoy your day.

Here is the poll PFT just started this morning, notice how many more votes Barry has, its not even close---> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/the-emmitt-vs-barry-poll/

Looks like 10% know how to pick a winner...and the best RB of the two. Good for them.

According to PFT, its 9000 to 1000 Barry! ...and you say that, lol.Everyone knows about Emmitt's touchdowns and rushing record, but yet more then enough football fans seem to think Barry is better. Does it make him better by a fact? No it will never be a fact, it just will always be the opinion of many, that Barry is way better...and according to the percentages...undebatable!

 

[GregR_2]

With regard to the references to short yardage, I Googled for splits and found splits at ESPN beginning in 1993. ESPN uses down and distance splits of 1-2 yards to go and 3-7 yards to go (and others less applicable to short yardage, like <6 to go and 6+ to go, etc.). So I added up the 1-2 yards to go splits for all downs and used those to represent a look at short yardage carriesSanders from 1993 to 1998: 175/750/11 (4.29 ypc); those were 9.3% of his carries; average of 29.2 carries per seasonSmith from 1993 to 2004: 452/1380/63 (3.05 ypc); those were 13.2% of his carries; average of 37.7 carries per seasonComments:1. As expected, Emmitt has a greater % of short yardage carries. There are likely multiple reasons for this, but the margin here (3.9% more short yardage carries as a percentage of overall carries) is probably narrower than many may have expected. He played on a better team and in a better offense, which provided more short yardage opportunities.2. Sanders definitely wasn't as bad as people think at short yardage. 4.29 ypc with 1-2 yards to go is ridiculously good. His coaches probably did Sanders and the Lions a disservice by not giving him more short yardage opportunities.3. This isn't really conclusive, since it is likely that Smith had a greater percentage of his short yardage carries close to the goal line, thus limiting the length of his runs. This took too long for me to also compile the carries within the opposing 10 yard line, which is as close as these ESPN splits get.All that said, I don't think the fact that Smith had a greater percentage of short yardage runs comes close to explaining away the difference in their ypc. He averaged 8.5 more such carries per season... not a big deal.

Nice job, you've rocked this thread. I went looking for splits data for them but couldn't find it, am going to bookmark those ESPN pages. Was thinking I might mail Chase and Doug about if they can add this kind of thing to PFR.

 

[BSanders2009]

Amen, Just Cuz!! And what I find ironic is that, although the Barry-supporters have provided plenty of facts to support their case, the Emmitt-supporters keep preaching with no proof of anything at all. And yet, the Emmitt-supporters, who are in the significant minority, need more "real data"??? Are you kidding me? If anything, the Emmitt followers need to step up their game with more in-depth facts to support their case. And don't feed us more crap about the more yards and touchdowns. On a per season basis, we have proven that Barry was superior in yards per season and close in TDs per season, despite a lesser-quality offensive line. So, let's see what other "FACTS" OR "REAL DATA" you have for us! I'm excited to hear them. Otherwise, you don't have an argument. Sorry. Everything heavily supports Barry in these posts and in the polls.

 

[cobalt_27]

More yards, more TDs, more heart, more rings. I like facts.

I like them too, but too bad thats an opinion.

Nope. All 4 are facts. Put up a poll and see if you get more than 20% choosing Barry having more heart than Emmitt. I think the facts stack up pretty well that that guy had no heart, the way he quit football and quit on his team. On the eve of camps starting up, no less. He gave up on football just 2 years after resigning, what, a 5-6 year deal? He refused to pay the Lions back portions of his signing bonus, which is preposterous (and lost that case, thankfully). No discussion with his teammates or coaches or players. Just a faxed statement. Too bad they didn't have Twitter back in the day. That would have been classy.

:X

Emmitt has the heart, the rings, the yards, the touchdowns. Barry quit on his team and his fans. Those are the facts of the case. You just hyperventilated and vomited smilies on the board.

Now, if you want to compare post-career achievements, Barry wins hands down. I don't know what the hell he's doing with his life--or what he's quit since football--but I am pretty sure he hasn't been the ###-clown that Emmitt has been in his post-retirement life.

See, I can be fair and balance. Enjoy your day.

Here is the poll PFT just started this morning, notice how many more votes Barry has, its not even close---> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/the-emmitt-vs-barry-poll/

Looks like 10% know how to pick a winner...and the best RB of the two. Good for them.

According to PFT, its 9000 to 1000 Barry! ...and you say that, lol.Everyone knows about Emmitt's touchdowns and rushing record, but yet more then enough football fans seem to think Barry is better. Does it make him better by a fact? No it will never be a fact, it just will always be the opinion of many, that Barry is way better...and according to the percentages...undebatable!

So, what you're saying is that 11% know what they're talking about. Look at that, 1% increase in just a few hours. Excellent to see.Clearly, it is debatable. Otherwise, the OP (that would be you) wouldn't have started a poll to begin with. It's a good debate. And, I applaud how energetic you have been in defense of your position, no matter how misguided it is.