Baseball/Softball rules question (1 Viewer)

[pantagrapher]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

 

[pantagrapher]

Lead runner is ejected from life.

Third base coach too.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

 

[jon_mx]

Ive never seen a difinitive rule about what constitutes a pop-up vs foul tip. I think its a judgement call, but I could be wrong. We all know it when we see it.

I posted it above and it is a judgment....'sharp and direct' into the catchers glove and caught.

I was referring more to the pop up rule vs a foul ball. If a tip is not "sharp and direct", that doesnt mean its necessarily a pop up either.

A pop up is not a legitimate distinction. It is either a foul ball or a foul tip. A foul tip must be caught to be considered a foul tip which counts the same as a strike. A foul ball can be caught for an out.

 

[Zow]

Bad form to deliberately let a ball drop to turn a double play (in a rec coed league)?

Last night, runner on first, one out, there was a liner hit towards me at SS, it was going to land a foot or two in front of me, but I could have pretty easily made the catch if I wanted to. I let it land, scooped it and turned the double play to end the inning. It wasn't too obvious that I deliberately let it land to most, but the smarter players there would have known. I thought after it might have been a #### move, but it was a tie game in the top of the 9th and my instincts kicked in.

Then, I led off the bottom of the inning with a walk off HR

ASA rules I think permit the umpire to make a judgment call that the batter is out and the play is a dead ball.

If the ump thought you legitimately missed it, then good play by you.

 

[Zow]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

Yep

 

[Zow]

Ive never seen a difinitive rule about what constitutes a pop-up vs foul tip. I think its a judgement call, but I could be wrong. We all know it when we see it.

In ASA men's tourneys generally the "line" is whether the ball is popped up higher than the batter's head.

I have no idea whether this is an official rule, but it's the one applied in sanctioned tournaments when I've seen it come up.

 

[Zow]

Bad form to deliberately let a ball drop to turn a double play (in a rec coed league)?

Last night, runner on first, one out, there was a liner hit towards me at SS, it was going to land a foot or two in front of me, but I could have pretty easily made the catch if I wanted to. I let it land, scooped it and turned the double play to end the inning. It wasn't too obvious that I deliberately let it land to most, but the smarter players there would have known. I thought after it might have been a #### move, but it was a tie game in the top of the 9th and my instincts kicked in.

Then, I led off the bottom of the inning with a walk off HR

There are softball leagues that play 9 innings? especially a coed?

Yeah, my local league. They used to play two 55 minute/7 inning games, then a few years back switched to one 90 minute/9 inning game. They rarely make it 9 innings, but it was really cold here last night and made for a quite a few quick innings.

This league also uses wooden bats for guys (official softball only, no bamboo), girls can use aluminum. I love the way they've set it up, makes it safer, makes it so you actually have to know how to hit a baseball, not "best bat wins", and generally creates lower scoring competitive games.

Love this. I've been pushing for my local leagues to make the change. Falling on deaf ears though.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Bad form to deliberately let a ball drop to turn a double play (in a rec coed league)?

Last night, runner on first, one out, there was a liner hit towards me at SS, it was going to land a foot or two in front of me, but I could have pretty easily made the catch if I wanted to. I let it land, scooped it and turned the double play to end the inning. It wasn't too obvious that I deliberately let it land to most, but the smarter players there would have known. I thought after it might have been a #### move, but it was a tie game in the top of the 9th and my instincts kicked in.

Then, I led off the bottom of the inning with a walk off HR

There are softball leagues that play 9 innings? especially a coed?

Yeah, my local league. They used to play two 55 minute/7 inning games, then a few years back switched to one 90 minute/9 inning game. They rarely make it 9 innings, but it was really cold here last night and made for a quite a few quick innings.

This league also uses wooden bats for guys (official softball only, no bamboo), girls can use aluminum. I love the way they've set it up, makes it safer, makes it so you actually have to know how to hit a baseball, not "best bat wins", and generally creates lower scoring competitive games.

Love this. I've been pushing for my local leagues to make the change. Falling on deaf ears though.

Probably because the people with the clout are 5'9, 150lbs and they wont be able to hit the ball 350 anymore.

 

[B Maverick]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

 

[Jules Winnfield]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

Nope.If the ball hasn't passed an infielder, not counting the the pitcher, or if it isn't an infield fly, the base offers no protection on a batted ball

 

[heckmanm]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

 

[jon_mx]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

. All that matters is if the runner is in fair territory when hit. Being on base makes no difference.

ETA: seems there are different rules for this.

 

[B Maverick]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

That seems to refer to infield fly rules. What about this one?

Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.

If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpires judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

 

[El Floppo]

id let it stand then blow middle

middle a handsome fella?

 

[Zegras11]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

Do you know what the batter gets credit for here? Not many people know...

 

[Jules Winnfield]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

Do you know what the batter gets credit for here? Not many people know...

Batter gets credit for a hit

 

[Jules Winnfield]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

That seems to refer to infield fly rules. What about this one?Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.

If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpires judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

What 7.08(b) refers to is the baserunners right to the base. I'm standing on third and there is a ball hit down the third base line. I've the right to my base and can stand on it as long as I don't hinder the third baseman in his attempt to field the ball. Standing on the base is not hindering the third baseman.Actually saw this in a Twins game about three years ago

 

[heckmanm]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

That seems to refer to infield fly rules. What about this one?

Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.

If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpires judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

The only reference to infield fly in 7.08 is the exception. Anytime it's NOT an infield fly, the baserunner is out if the ball hits them.

7.08(b) refers to "hindering the fielder", not to being hit by the ball. The runner doesn't have to leave the base, even if it prevents the fielder from getting to the ball.

 

[parrot]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

Nope.If the ball hasn't passed an infielder, not counting the the pitcher, or if it isn't an infield fly, the base offers no protection on a batted ball

Under NFHS rules she is safe if she is on a base.

8-1-2 When a fair ball touches a runner who is in contact with a base, the ball is dead or live depending on whether the closest fielder is in front of the base (live) or behind the base (dead). The runner is not out unless she intentionally interferes.


I'm fairly certain ASA has a similar rule.

 

[The Commish]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

There's no such thing. The base is 100% in fair territory.

 

[heckmanm]

We had an interesting one a couple seasons ago. Batter hit a soft liner toward third base. Girl on third base stood on the base and let the ball hit her, then when the ball hit the ground she broke for home and scored. She should have been called out for interference, but ump didn't know the rules and said everyone was safe and the run scored.

Girl is out on a ball hit fair even if standing on the base.There are more rules dealing with infielders and infield fly rule but in this case she is out

I am fairly sure this is incorrect. If you are standing on the base and get hit you are not out. If you are off the base and in fair territory and the ball has not passed any infielders (other then the pitcher) you are out.

Only out if intentionally got hit (threw her #### out to the ball to get hit while on the base)

MLB rules

7.08 Any runner is out when—

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

So, unless the "soft liner" was called an infield fly, she should have been called out.

Edit - unless she's standing on the foul-ground side of the bag, in which case it would have been a foul ball anyway.

There's no such thing. The base is 100% in fair territory.

If you have your left foot on 3B and the rest of you in foul territory, I don't think you'll get called out. Of course in that case it would probably be a foul ball anyway if it hit you, unless it hit your foot.

 

[Cjw_55106]

You have to be completely in foul territory or your are out. It's pretty simple.

 

[pantagrapher]

She intentionally let the ball hit her, making no effort to move out of the way. This was not some laser line drive that caught her by surprise. Then, when she saw that the third baseman had gone to the ground diving behind her to try to make the play, she broke for home and scored.

 

[B Maverick]

She intentionally let the ball hit her, making no effort to move out of the way. This was not some laser line drive that caught her by surprise. Then, when she saw that the third baseman had gone to the ground diving behind her to try to make the play, she broke for home and scored.

In that case its the umps judgement as to whether it was intentional or not. If it was, she is out. If it wasnt, everyone is safe and its a live ball.

Keeping in mind that mlb, softball and each association of softball may have different rules dictating this. So we could all be right.

 

[renesauz]

Ok...another Little League question, this time 9U Kid Pitch.

During a game we had an opposing batter swing and foul-tip a ball which was caught by our catcher. The Head Coach thought the batter should be out, but the umpire said no it counts as a strike. This went back and forth for about 5 minutes, with it ending having the batter finish his at bat.

What is the rule on when a caught foul tip is an out vs a strike? I've been looking online, but I only see that a foul tip is a strike when it is caught by the catcher, otherwise it is a foul ball. I keep score/stats for the team and having to discuss it with 3 coaches on our team and 2 on the other team had me running in circles, as no one could agree on it. Thoughts?

Strike unless the tip goes up in the air higher than the batters head.

If it would be strike three...it's a strikeout provided the ball never hit the ground.

 

[Tom Servo]

Ahem...

ETA: NSFW (language)

 

[jon_mx]

Ahem...

ETA: NSFW (language)

Good thing it was only a rec league.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Ahem...

ETA: NSFW (language)

Good thing it was only a rec league.

If a guy cant handle a ground ball, I dont think he's capable of raping another man to death.

 

[Godsbrother]

Ahem...

ETA: NSFW (language)

Sounds like a reasonable guy.

 

[GOB]

I admit I don't play a ton of softball, but if you are going to hide a fielder, put him at pitcher or catcher not the OF.

Seems like a promotion

 

[Cjw_55106]

I admit I don't play a ton of softball, but if you are going to hide a fielder, put him at pitcher or catcher not the OF.

Seems like a promotion

Im sure the guy was struggling in the infield, but not a guy you need to hide. Chances are if you cant catch a ball, you cant pitch either. Catcher is the only place to hide a guy in softball IMO.

 

[jon_mx]

I admit I don't play a ton of softball, but if you are going to hide a fielder, put him at pitcher or catcher not the OF.

Seems like a promotion

Im sure the guy was struggling in the infield, but not a guy you need to hide. Chances are if you cant catch a ball, you cant pitch either. Catcher is the only place to hide a guy in softball IMO.

Yes, but third base is probably the most difficult position to field. But any weakness in the field will be exploited by a decent team, so there is really no place to hide. Hitting a slow pitch softball in the general direction of a weak fielder is not all that difficult.

 

[El Floppo]

I admit I don't play a ton of softball, but if you are going to hide a fielder, put him at pitcher or catcher not the OF.

Seems like a promotion

Im sure the guy was struggling in the infield, but not a guy you need to hide. Chances are if you cant catch a ball, you cant pitch either. Catcher is the only place to hide a guy in softball IMO.

Yes, but third base is probably the most difficult position to field. But any weakness in the field will be exploited by a decent team, so there is really no place to hide. Hitting a slow pitch softball in the general direction of a weak fielder is not all that difficult.

if it's not all that difficult, then why aren't you hitting it where they ain't?

 

[jon_mx]

I admit I don't play a ton of softball, but if you are going to hide a fielder, put him at pitcher or catcher not the OF.

Seems like a promotion

Im sure the guy was struggling in the infield, but not a guy you need to hide. Chances are if you cant catch a ball, you cant pitch either. Catcher is the only place to hide a guy in softball IMO.

Yes, but third base is probably the most difficult position to field. But any weakness in the field will be exploited by a decent team, so there is really no place to hide. Hitting a slow pitch softball in the general direction of a weak fielder is not all that difficult.

if it's not all that difficult, then why aren't you hitting it where they ain't?

Softball players do generally have high batting averages.