Begining of the end for the Pats ? (1 Viewer)

[Sheriff66]

With the team getting 1 more year older, the Spygate scandal possibly expanding, and the historic choke in SB XLII. Can the team recover ? I honestly think this was the beginging to the end of their run, thoughts ?

 

[Banger]

Anyone predicting the demise of the Pats is premature. They are still a great team and will be back, they just lost a game. It happens.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

 

[Sheriff66]

Anyone predicting the demise of the Pats is premature. They are still a great team and will be back, they just lost a game. It happens.

This wasn't just any loss, this was one of those back breaking, soul crushing losses that are hard to recover from. It's been awhile since this team won a SB and they are not getting any younger, it just cannot go on forever.

 

[dgreen]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel.

 

[Sheriff66]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I think Moss stays and Samuel leaves. Bruschi, Seau, Harrison, Vrabel are all getting up there as well.

 

[Banger]

Anyone predicting the demise of the Pats is premature. They are still a great team and will be back, they just lost a game. It happens.

This wasn't just any loss, this was one of those back breaking, soul crushing losses that are hard to recover from. It's been awhile since this team won a SB and they are not getting any younger, it ust canot go on forever.

I agree that it's a huge loss and they do have personnel situations that have to be addressed but at the end of the day they'll still have BB, Brady, Welker, their line, Seymour, Thomas, etc. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Bruschi, Seau and Harrison. They could have some holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball but the Pats aren't going to fall apart. They won't go undefeated but they'll still win their division and be back and dangerous in the playoffs. This is coming from a guy that doesn't like the Pats at all and was thrilled to see them lose but they are and will continue to be a very good team IMO.

 

[Sheriff66]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

No doubt, but how many rookie CBs step in and play like Samuel(if the take a CB) ? What about the ageing LBs ?

 

[dgreen]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel.

If you don't see the difference between the Patriots and the previous SB losers, then I don't know what to say. NE is not Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Carolina, Oakland, or St. Louis.

 

[Sheriff66]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel.

If you don't see the difference between the Patriots and the previous SB losers, then I don't know what to say. NE is not Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Carolina, Oakland, or St. Louis.

This team has not looked dominate in months, I'm not saying they are not going to be a good team, but the Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Jags, Browns all look to be able to beat this team on any given Sunday. They have a tough road to haul in the AFC...

 

[dgreen]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel.

If you don't see the difference between the Patriots and the previous SB losers, then I don't know what to say. NE is not Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Carolina, Oakland, or St. Louis.

This team has not looked dominate in months, I'm not saying they are not going to be a good team, but the Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Jags, Browns all look to be able to beat this team on any given Sunday. They have a tough road to haul in the AFC...

I agree with all of that. I disagree with predicting the Patriots will suffer from the "Super Bowl Loser Curse" and that they are about to spiral downward.

 

[Jeff Haseley]

Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison and especially Seau are really getting up there in age. Not to mention Moss and Faulk on offense. The draft can only do so much and then it's grooming all over again. I would not be surprised to see them trade out of the 7th pick in the draft to get two picks in the first or a first and an early second. The window of opportunity is definitely closing and I'm not sure if they will ever have the talent on the field that they had this season. Their OL was definitely embarrassed in the SB. I'll be surprised if that unit plays the same way next year like they did this year, plus injuries can play a big role too. In other words, I don't see another run at 19-0 anytime soon.

 

[Banger]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel. :whoosh:

If you don't see the difference between the Patriots and the previous SB losers, then I don't know what to say. NE is not Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Carolina, Oakland, or St. Louis.

This team has not looked dominate in months, I'm not saying they are not going to be a good team, but the Colts, Chargers, Steelers, Jags, Browns all look to be able to beat this team on any given Sunday. They have a tough road to haul in the AFC...

They've been in close games for years and have nearly always made the plays to win, look at last years playoffs vs. the Chargers. Those teams were all playoff teams (Brown's almost) and they still won every one of those games regardless of the domination.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think that depends what the OP means by the beginning of the end.

I would agree with an above post that this is probably the best team that they'll have. And yes, there is the problem of Moss and Samuel both wanting to get paid and the older than dirt LBs. I still think that they have a great core group of players and will be in contention for a few more years.

I think that the O side of the ball will be fine with Maroney, Brady, Watson, and the WRs. What concerned me in the playoffs and last night is the age of the LBs and Harrison. I think they really started to show their age this year towards the end of the season, and that would be a lot of key players to replace on the D side of the ball. Long story short, I think for the next couple years they'll be the Colts of a few years ago - great O, but their D is not good enough to win the games any more. They'll still be in the playoffs and might sneak into another Super Bowl. With that O I think you are crazy if you think they'll self destruct and go 5-11 next year because of this loss, but they sure aren't going to be going for a perfect season next year either.

 

[Despyzer]

How many players were on this team that were on that first winning Patriots team? I ask to point out the fact that Belicheck/Piolli have done a pretty good job of replacing parts on the fly. Guys get older, others leave, and yet the Patriots continue to be a top franchise.

 

[Godsbrother]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

And don't forget they play in the AFC East and next season only face three teams that made the 2007 playoffs. Of course teams change from year to year but right now they look to have a very favorable schedule.

 

[set57hike]

If they lose 4 or 5 more games next year, they are still going to the playoffs.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Patriots will still be one of the best teams in the NFL next year. I would think they would go heavy on upgrading the defense in the draft, and Moss is likely to be resigned, so the offense will essentially be the same, minus Stallworth, most likely.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I agree but you mention something, for a few years. The difference between the Pats and many of the teams is they're team is dedicated to win. They're not the only one, but Kraft and all the way down will keep this team competitive or they'll find a way the following year to make it happen.

 

[Sheriff66]

I think that depends what the OP means by the beginning of the end. I would agree with an above post that this is probably the best team that they'll have. And yes, there is the problem of Moss and Samuel both wanting to get paid and the older than dirt LBs. I still think that they have a great core group of players and will be in contention for a few more years. I think that the O side of the ball will be fine with Maroney, Brady, Watson, and the WRs. What concerned me in the playoffs and last night is the age of the LBs and Harrison. I think they really started to show their age this year towards the end of the season, and that would be a lot of key players to replace on the D side of the ball. Long story short, I think for the next couple years they'll be the Colts of a few years ago - great O, but their D is not good enough to win the games any more. They'll still be in the playoffs and might sneak into another Super Bowl. With that O I think you are crazy if you think they'll self destruct and go 5-11 next year because of this loss, but they sure aren't going to be going for a perfect season next year either.

Glad to see you were at the game last night...Let me say that by no way, shape or form did I mean this team was going to go 5-11 next year. I'm talking in a line graph type of sense, where the line goes up to a peak, then down. I see this Super Bowl loss and the begining of the line on it's way down, it cannot continue to just go up, up, up forever. Brady is no spring chicken himself at 30. Here is a list of 30 somethings....A. Thomas 30Vrabel 32K. Faulk 31Colvin 30Seau 39Moss 30Hochstein 30Bruschi 34Harrison 35A lot of big names on there...

 

[DoubleG]

Anyone predicting the demise of the Pats is premature. They are still a great team and will be back, they just lost a game. It happens.

That's what people said about the Bears last year. In fact, that's what most people say about most teams that lose in the Superbowl - like the Bears, Seahawks, etc.I'm not predicting their demise - in their division they will likely make the playoffs next year, but their defense (particularly at LB) is getting old and they have some decisions to make in terms of FA (as mentioned above). IF they can stay healthy (especially at O-line) they should be a solid team for a while. But the fact is their defense is good - but slipping and their offense looked very ordinary last night with some O-lineman dinged up. I could very easily see, with a few injuries to that O-line and the loss of a FA or two, them sliding to a 9-7 or even 8-8 team, who then won't be getting early byes and playing at home (if they make the playoffs at all).

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I agree but you mention something, for a few years. The difference between the Pats and many of the teams is they're team is dedicated to win. They're not the only one, but Kraft and all the way down will keep this team competitive or they'll find a way the following year to make it happen.

Definitely - however Moss and Samuel are true difference makers - the Pats actually don't have that many elite talents, the kind of player that creates matchup nightmares and singlehandedly turns games. Moss and Samuel are both in that category, and losing either of them turns a major strength into a push at best, if not a weakness.

 

[Sheriff66]

Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison and especially Seau are really getting up there in age. Not to mention Moss and Faulk on offense. The draft can only do so much and then it's grooming all over again. I would not be surprised to see them trade out of the 7th pick in the draft to get two picks in the first or a first and an early second. The window of opportunity is definitely closing and I'm not sure if they will ever have the talent on the field that they had this season. Their OL was definitely embarrassed in the SB. I'll be surprised if that unit plays the same way next year like they did this year, plus injuries can play a big role too. In other words, I don't see another run at 19-0 anytime soon.

Great post

 

[dgreen]

Anyone predicting the demise of the Pats is premature. They are still a great team and will be back, they just lost a game. It happens.

That's what people said about the Bears last year.

Really? I thought the Bears were prime candidates for a fall based on one simple fact: No QB.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I agree but you mention something, for a few years. The difference between the Pats and many of the teams is they're team is dedicated to win. They're not the only one, but Kraft and all the way down will keep this team competitive or they'll find a way the following year to make it happen.

Definitely - however Moss and Samuel are true difference makers - the Pats actually don't have that many elite talents, the kind of player that creates matchup nightmares and singlehandedly turns games. Moss and Samuel are both in that category, and losing either of them turns a major strength into a push at best, if not a weakness.

Ya, true but then again who knows who you get in the draft. You made a good post in another thread on how well the Giants rookies performed this year, especially down the stretch.The Pats could very well use their picks and add strength to their team. Only time will tell but if I have to say if this is the beginning of the end or not, I guess I'd side with the NOT side because I just think NE is committed to excellence. They'll reload somehow someway.

 

[jonessed]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I agree but you mention something, for a few years. The difference between the Pats and many of the teams is they're team is dedicated to win. They're not the only one, but Kraft and all the way down will keep this team competitive or they'll find a way the following year to make it happen.

Definitely - however Moss and Samuel are true difference makers - the Pats actually don't have that many elite talents, the kind of player that creates matchup nightmares and singlehandedly turns games. Moss and Samuel are both in that category, and losing either of them turns a major strength into a push at best, if not a weakness.

I doubt they lose Moss. He'll be back. I think people are grossly underestimating the loss of Samuel though. Corners of his caliber are hard to find.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison and especially Seau are really getting up there in age. Not to mention Moss and Faulk on offense. The draft can only do so much and then it's grooming all over again. I would not be surprised to see them trade out of the 7th pick in the draft to get two picks in the first or a first and an early second. The window of opportunity is definitely closing and I'm not sure if they will ever have the talent on the field that they had this season. Their OL was definitely embarrassed in the SB. I'll be surprised if that unit plays the same way next year like they did this year, plus injuries can play a big role too. In other words, I don't see another run at 19-0 anytime soon.

Them being an older team is all the more reason in my opinion to use the NO. 7 pick. These guys still have another year in them. I don't think the Patriots go in the "rebuilding" direction because they went 18-1 this season. I'd recommend using their draft picks to find a difference maker, probably a top safety or cornerback in the draft.

 

[Sheriff66]

I dont think they can keep both Moss and Samuel, and that will be a big hit on at least one side of the ball. I also think the Giants did a lot to destroy the mystique the Pats had built up this year. This was definitely the best team they're going to be able to assemble for a few years.

I agree but you mention something, for a few years. The difference between the Pats and many of the teams is they're team is dedicated to win. They're not the only one, but Kraft and all the way down will keep this team competitive or they'll find a way the following year to make it happen.

Definitely - however Moss and Samuel are true difference makers - the Pats actually don't have that many elite talents, the kind of player that creates matchup nightmares and singlehandedly turns games. Moss and Samuel are both in that category, and losing either of them turns a major strength into a push at best, if not a weakness.

Ya, true but then again who knows who you get in the draft. You made a good post in another thread on how well the Giants rookies performed this year, especially down the stretch.The Pats could very well use their picks and add strength to their team. Only time will tell but if I have to say if this is the beginning of the end or not, I guess I'd side with the NOT side because I just think NE is committed to excellence. They'll reload somehow someway.

This is not meant as a slap, but if anyone should know about downfall it should be a Cowboys fan, after the dominate 90's run, it's been 13 years since they have won a playoff game ? Nothing is a given, as we saw last night.

 

[BigTex]

If I recall correctly they have 37 players over the age of 30.

 

[Sheriff66]

If I recall correctly they have 37 players over the age of 30.

I didn't see that many when I looked, but quite a few of the core players are getting up there, and once Brady is done, that could be the real death blow. Remember, Spygate is not over yet either.

 

[Banger]

If I recall correctly they have 37 players over the age of 30.

I didn't see that many when I looked, but quite a few of the core players are getting up there, and once Brady is done, that could be the real death blow. Remember, Spygate is not over yet either.

Ya, once Brady is done it's a totally different discussion but he's got 5 years, at a minimum of top football left.

 

[Sheriff66]

If I recall correctly they have 37 players over the age of 30.

I didn't see that many when I looked, but quite a few of the core players are getting up there, and once Brady is done, that could be the real death blow. Remember, Spygate is not over yet either.

Ya, once Brady is done it's a totally different discussion but he's got 5 years, at a minimum of top football left.

That is without injuries, once a player hits 30, injuries are very tough to bounce back from.

 

[geoff8695]

I don't really care for the Patriots or their head coach, but I'm not writing them off anytime soon either. Sure they will lose a player or two, but it shouldn't be enough to keep them from being amongst the elite teams again next season.

Unless you are predicting Brady's ankle is going to become a chronic problem or that he will miss significant playing time with injuries, then I just don't see all the 'doom and gloom' predictions. The Pats aren't going to be facing the Giants D-line again anytime soon, (and remember the Patriots actually defeated these same Giants in NY just a few weeks ago, despite missing almost half their starting offensive line). Besides, next year I only see three games that would scare me if I'm the Patriots. Best of all, they get to play in the AFC East, and IMO the out of division schedule is easier than 2007.

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[msommer]

I don't really care for the Patriots or their head coach, but I'm not writing them off anytime soon either. Sure they will lose a player or two, but it shouldn't be enough to keep them from being amongst the elite teams again next season.

Unless you are predicting Brady's ankle is going to become a chronic problem or that he will miss significant playing time with injuries, then I just don't see all the 'doom and gloom' predictions. The Pats aren't going to be facing the Giants D-line again anytime soon, (and remember the Patriots actually defeated these same Giants in NY just a few weeks ago, despite missing almost half their starting offensive line). Besides, next year I only see three games that would scare me if I'm the Patriots. Best of all, they get to play in the AFC East, and IMO the out of division schedule is easier than 2007.

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I remember a stat from a few years ago, how the Pats usually crush the other team when they meet them the second time of the season - guess this time the Giants adjusted the best...

 

[Road Warriors]

...I remember a stat from a few years ago, how the Pats usually crush the other team when they meet them the second time of the season - guess this time the Giants adjusted the best...

You can't scheme your way to a W if you get dominated on the LOS. The Giants D line won the 1:1 battles, especially up the middle. Great game from the Giants.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

For now . . . a lot can happen between now and draft day.

 

[BassNBrew]

People were writing them off after losing to the Colts last year. A second for Welker and a fourth for Moss and they instantly move to the top of the heap.

 

[Sheriff66]

People were writing them off after losing to the Colts last year. A second for Welker and a fourth for Moss and they instantly move to the top of the heap.

Not writing them off at all, they will still be a good team for a few years to come, but at some point there is going to be a dropoff. Can't the Chargers, Steelers, Colts, Browns or Jags get better too ?

 

[BassNBrew]

People were writing them off after losing to the Colts last year. A second for Welker and a fourth for Moss and they instantly move to the top of the heap.

Not writing them off at all, they will still be a good team for a few years to come, but at some point there is going to be a dropoff. Can't the Chargers, Steelers, Colts, Browns or Jags get better too ?

To me "beginning of the end" = "writing them off". They would have been much better served losing a game or two during the regular season this year.

 

[switz]

Moss came to play for a winner. He's got to be thinking twice now about re-signing with the Pats. Samuel is going to sign somewhere else. I can't see their LB corps staying intact. Stallworth will likely be cut and then possible re-signed, but he may go elsewhere.

It will be tough for them to be a great team next year.

 

[Sheriff66]

People were writing them off after losing to the Colts last year. A second for Welker and a fourth for Moss and they instantly move to the top of the heap.

Not writing them off at all, they will still be a good team for a few years to come, but at some point there is going to be a dropoff. Can't the Chargers, Steelers, Colts, Browns or Jags get better too ?

To me "beginning of the end" = "writing them off". They would have been much better served losing a game or two during the regular season this year.

Decline can be slow, you don't have to go from 18-1 to 2-14 in one year for it to be the begining of the end. When most people get a divorce, they begining of the end started years and years before the papers are signed. Get it now ?

 

[Sheriff66]

Moss came to play for a winner. He's got to be thinking twice now about re-signing with the Pats. Samuel is going to sign somewhere else. I can't see their LB corps staying intact. Stallworth will likely be cut and then possible re-signed, but he may go elsewhere.It will be tough for them to be a great team next year.

Some team has to be saying to themselves "If we take Moss from them, even if we overpay a lot, we will have a better shot at the SB with Moss NOT in N.E.."

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Don't forget they have the 7th pick in the draft.

Don't forget they will lose a first rounder this year (and potentially more), along with either Moss or Samuel.

If you don't see the difference between the Patriots and the previous SB losers, then I don't know what to say. NE is not Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia, Carolina, Oakland, or St. Louis.

It's real easy to say that now. For example, let's take the Bears. The previous Super Bowl loser. It's real easy to say now that the Pats are a much better team than the Bears, but was it easy to say that right after the Super Bowl last year? Sure, Grossman's stock was as low as it had ever been, but the rest of the team, especially the defense was dominant. Very few thought they would fall off this year. And they did. Just because the Pats had the year they did this year, doesn't make it impossible for them to suffer the same fate next year.

 

[Morton Muffley]

My God this is a silly discussion....between the ridiculous clarifier that this game represents a down cycle (so, you are predicting they won't go 19-0...way to go out on a limb!) and switz's usual junk (Moss second guessing himself? really? is that really what you think?) I'm surprised some of you manage to tie you own shoes.

Here's the reality:

If Vegas released its odds for next year's Superbowl do any of you really think that NE would not be at/near the top? Now, I'm not saying the Pats would be favored vs. the field, but I'd bet that they are a right up there. So, have they peaked? Well unless you are predicting they go 19-0 next year (or 18-1) then yeah they've probably peaked...but guess what, 13-3 teams (or worse) win the SB all the time. You just have to get hot/lucky at the right time. The Pats got hot and very lucky in 2001. They got hot and mildly lucky in 2003/2004. In 2007 they cooled off and got mildly unlucky (let's be honest some of those Manning throws were lucky to not have been picked off much less completed!).

It's fine line between winning and losing in the NFL and those of you who view Wins and Losses as somehow definitive statements are really missing alot. The Pats were are very good team this year, but they got lucky in order to go undefeated in the regular season...replay that regular season 100 times and I'll bet they go undefeated fewer than 5 times and average 14 wins.

 

[Sheriff66]

My God this is a silly discussion....between the ridiculous clarifier that this game represents a down cycle (so, you are predicting they won't go 19-0...way to go out on a limb!) and switz's usual junk (Moss second guessing himself? really? is that really what you think?) I'm surprised some of you manage to tie you own shoes.

Here's the reality:

If Vegas released its odds for next year's Superbowl do any of you really think that NE would not be at/near the top? Now, I'm not saying the Pats would be favored vs. the field, but I'd bet that they are a right up there. So, have they peaked? Well unless you are predicting they go 19-0 next year (or 18-1) then yeah they've probably peaked...but guess what, 13-3 teams (or worse) win the SB all the time. You just have to get hot/lucky at the right time. The Pats got hot and very lucky in 2001. They got hot and mildly lucky in 2003/2004. In 2007 they cooled off and got mildly unlucky (let's be honest some of those Manning throws were lucky to not have been picked off much less completed!).

It's fine line between winning and losing in the NFL and those of you who view Wins and Losses as somehow definitive statements are really missing alot. The Pats were are very good team this year, but they got lucky in order to go undefeated in the regular season...replay that regular season 100 times and I'll bet they go undefeated fewer than 5 times and average 14 wins.

Thread is not silly at all, we may have witnessed the begining of the end of Pats dominance. The core players are not getting any younger, Brady included, and a crushing loss to kill perfection. You think the Pats will continue to just go back to the bowl every other year from here on out ? Don't tool the thread up please...

 

[Morton Muffley]

My God this is a silly discussion....between the ridiculous clarifier that this game represents a down cycle (so, you are predicting they won't go 19-0...way to go out on a limb!) and switz's usual junk (Moss second guessing himself? really? is that really what you think?) I'm surprised some of you manage to tie you own shoes.

Here's the reality:

If Vegas released its odds for next year's Superbowl do any of you really think that NE would not be at/near the top? Now, I'm not saying the Pats would be favored vs. the field, but I'd bet that they are a right up there. So, have they peaked? Well unless you are predicting they go 19-0 next year (or 18-1) then yeah they've probably peaked...but guess what, 13-3 teams (or worse) win the SB all the time. You just have to get hot/lucky at the right time. The Pats got hot and very lucky in 2001. They got hot and mildly lucky in 2003/2004. In 2007 they cooled off and got mildly unlucky (let's be honest some of those Manning throws were lucky to not have been picked off much less completed!).

It's fine line between winning and losing in the NFL and those of you who view Wins and Losses as somehow definitive statements are really missing alot. The Pats were are very good team this year, but they got lucky in order to go undefeated in the regular season...replay that regular season 100 times and I'll bet they go undefeated fewer than 5 times and average 14 wins.

Thread is not silly at all, we may have witnessed the begining of the end of Pats dominance. The core players are not getting any younger, Brady included, and a crushing loss to kill perfection. You think the Pats will continue to just go back to the bowl every other year from here on out ? Don't tool the thread up please...

STOP STOP STOP!!!Please stop with the "tooling it up" nonsense.

Please stop building a straw man to tear down - where did I say they were ""just go back to the bowl every other year from here on out"?

Please stop dismissing everything I said merely because it doesn't fit with your original hypothesis.

Please stop doing what the media does (i.e. vacillating between "THIS IS THE GREATEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF MODERN SPORT" and "THIS IS THE END, THERE"LL NEVER RECOVER FROM THIS")

My point, if you'd cared to read/comprehend it, was that there is a middle ground. I recognize that the team (particularly the defense) is old and that they face FA losses. On the other hand, they do have a high draft pick, a decent cap situation, play in a weak division, have a great QB/coach/personnell man. Would I be shocked if they didn't get to the SB again in the next two years? Absolutely not. But that's because it's really hard to get to the SB not because I think they are on some significant slide. If Asante Samuel makes that INT, people are talking about this being the greatest team ever. Well, he didn't make the play and now you and many others are burying them. Does that make any sense to you? Cuz it doesn't to me. All I'm asking for is a little perspective. Perhaps you/others are too close to give that right now, but I think in time you'll see that this discussion really is quite silly.

 

[Sheriff66]

My God this is a silly discussion....between the ridiculous clarifier that this game represents a down cycle (so, you are predicting they won't go 19-0...way to go out on a limb!) and switz's usual junk (Moss second guessing himself? really? is that really what you think?) I'm surprised some of you manage to tie you own shoes.

Here's the reality:

If Vegas released its odds for next year's Superbowl do any of you really think that NE would not be at/near the top? Now, I'm not saying the Pats would be favored vs. the field, but I'd bet that they are a right up there. So, have they peaked? Well unless you are predicting they go 19-0 next year (or 18-1) then yeah they've probably peaked...but guess what, 13-3 teams (or worse) win the SB all the time. You just have to get hot/lucky at the right time. The Pats got hot and very lucky in 2001. They got hot and mildly lucky in 2003/2004. In 2007 they cooled off and got mildly unlucky (let's be honest some of those Manning throws were lucky to not have been picked off much less completed!).

It's fine line between winning and losing in the NFL and those of you who view Wins and Losses as somehow definitive statements are really missing alot. The Pats were are very good team this year, but they got lucky in order to go undefeated in the regular season...replay that regular season 100 times and I'll bet they go undefeated fewer than 5 times and average 14 wins.

Thread is not silly at all, we may have witnessed the begining of the end of Pats dominance. The core players are not getting any younger, Brady included, and a crushing loss to kill perfection. You think the Pats will continue to just go back to the bowl every other year from here on out ? Don't tool the thread up please...

STOP STOP STOP!!!Please stop with the "tooling it up" nonsense.

Please stop building a straw man to tear down - where did I say they were ""just go back to the bowl every other year from here on out"?

Please stop dismissing everything I said merely because it doesn't fit with your original hypothesis.

Please stop doing what the media does (i.e. vacillating between "THIS IS THE GREATEST TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF MODERN SPORT" and "THIS IS THE END, THERE"LL NEVER RECOVER FROM THIS")

My point, if you'd cared to read/comprehend it, was that there is a middle ground. I recognize that the team (particularly the defense) is old and that they face FA losses. On the other hand, they do have a high draft pick, a decent cap situation, play in a weak division, have a great QB/coach/personnell man. Would I be shocked if they didn't get to the SB again in the next two years? Absolutely not. But that's because it's really hard to get to the SB not because I think they are on some significant slide. If Asante Samuel makes that INT, people are talking about this being the greatest team ever. Well, he didn't make the play and now you and many others are burying them. Does that make any sense to you? Cuz it doesn't to me. All I'm asking for is a little perspective. Perhaps you/others are too close to give that right now, but I think in time you'll see that this discussion really is quite silly.

It's not silly at all, everything has a begining and end. This wasn't just a loss, this was a crushing, last minute, hard to recover from type loss. You can dismiss it however you like, but it's a fact. They have not won the SB since 04, this was their best shot to do so IMO, and they couldn't get it done. Brady hasn't been all that special in the playoffs in years, and the #7 pick isn't a guarentee that all holes will be properly filled in the off season. Everyone will be gunning for this team like it is their SB for the next few years, and there are a number of good teams in the AFC and NFC. The window is not going to stay open forever like you seem to believe, and if you cared to read/comprehend my posts above, you would see that I think the end will come slowly, and Brady eventually retiring being the nail in he coffin.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

The Patriots peaked at around the 10 or 11 game mark this season. They continued winning but they didn't look near as dominant as the season went on. They were extremely lucky against Baltimore. The Chargers played them straight up without Gates and Tomlinson and with a little luck would have won that game.

I see the Pats going 9-7 next year. Their defense will really start to suffer, but if they keep Moss they will still be great on offense. If they lose Moss to free agency I don't think they will make the playoffs next year. Time is not on their side with an aging defense.

 

[((Morpheus))]

I see the Pats going 9-7 next year. Their defense will really start to suffer, but if they keep Moss they will still be great on offense. If they lose Moss to free agency I don't think they will make the playoffs next year. Time is not on their side with an aging defense.

free agency down? briggs would look great in a pats uniform.