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Beisbol Hall of Fame (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SofaKings
- Start date
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Good, those two deserved it. The others on the ballot did not.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Who were the others on the ballot?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
NEW YORK (AP) -- Mark McGwire fell far short in his first try for the Hall of Fame, picked by 23.5 percent of voters while Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. easily gained baseball's highest honor.
Tarnished by accusations of steroid use, McGwire appeared on 128 of a record 545 ballots in voting released Tuesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Ripken was picked by 537 voters, appearing on 98.5 percent of ballots, falling just short of the record percentage of 98.84 set by Tom Seaver when he was selected on 425 of 430 ballots in 1992.
Gwynn was just behind with 532 votes, 97.6 percent.
Tarnished by accusations of steroid use, McGwire appeared on 128 of a record 545 ballots in voting released Tuesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Ripken was picked by 537 voters, appearing on 98.5 percent of ballots, falling just short of the record percentage of 98.84 set by Tom Seaver when he was selected on 425 of 430 ballots in 1992.
Gwynn was just behind with 532 votes, 97.6 percent.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Anyone that did not vote for Ripken and Gwynn should have their ballot removed and not be allowed to vote, period. For 15 years Gwynn was the best hitter in Baseball. There were voters that said they have no way of knowing if Gwynn and Ripken were on steroids but that's a lie. Cowherd this morning referenced this but it's true...if Gwynn was on steroids he ws on the Twinkie Steroids, or the Galzed steroids...that guy had a major weight problem for being a professional athlete. Both he and Ripken peaked from the ages of 24-34 where they got better and better and then they slowly eroded as they approached 40. Unlike Roger Clemens who has his best stuff in his 40s apparently. Clemens will get in 1st ballot though, he will get a pass on steroids.The hitters were on steroids and so were a lot of pitchers. But Cal and Tony were not steroid users and they were also two of the most liked. Ripken for his ironman show up everyday atitude...and Gwynn was just a nice guy.
videoguy505
Footballguy
Orel Hershieser, Albert Belle, Paul O'Neill, Bret Saberhagen, Jose Canseco, Tony Fernandez, Dante Bichette, Eric Davis, Bobby Bonilla, Ken Caminiti, Jay Buhner, Scott Brosius, Wally Joyner, Devon White, and Bobby Witt all received less than 28 votes and will NOT appear on future ballots. Only the Veterans Committee can consider them now.
B Maverick
Footballguy
travesty that McGwire is not in. The voters are trying to be on their high horse making a statement. Sad part is the statment isnt about McGwire's supposed steroids use, its about his actions in front of congress. Barry Bonds wasnt there yet his trainers are going to jail for him.
If Bonds gets voted in on the first ballot and Mac isnt in the voters should have their rights removed.
Mac hit 49 hrs as a rookie, before any steroid use was questioned. Barry could barely hit the ball out of the infield for his 1st 3 years.
Hypocrasy! or however you spell it.
If Bonds gets voted in on the first ballot and Mac isnt in the voters should have their rights removed.
Mac hit 49 hrs as a rookie, before any steroid use was questioned. Barry could barely hit the ball out of the infield for his 1st 3 years.
Hypocrasy! or however you spell it.
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
this is a pretty good argument, but I am still glad McGwire didn't get voted in.
I disagree... I whole-heartedly believe that Lee Smith and Goose Gossage should've gotten the nod by now. Ridiculous that the all-time saves leader is not in there!
whoknew
Footballguy
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Fixed.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
If Rice has a shot, it might be next year with a weak field. Tim Raines and David Justice are the most qualified out of that class.
Vladislav Tretiak
Footballguy
What about Bert Blyleven?
whoknew
Footballguy
Lee Smith had a lot of saves, but other than that, why should he get in?Certainly not before Bert Blyleven.I was listening to Keith Olbermann on the DPatrick show today and he said Dave Concepcion deserves to be in but not Alan Trammell. What a freakin' joke.Basically HOF voting is as irrelevant now as MVP and gold glove voting.
Kraft...
Footballguy
I always thought Ripken was a little over hyped but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall.
Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games.
Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games.
Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
pitt100
Footballguy
I second the motion! Along with Gossage, Blyleven and Rice. What a joke.
whoknew
Footballguy
Ripken is one of the greatest 2-3 shortstops of all time.Gwynn is the one who -- while great -- is overrated.And if you think Rice is a shoe-in, then how do you feel about Albert Belle? Or Dale Murphy?I always thought Ripken was a little over hyped but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall. Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games. Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
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stevegamer
Footballguy
I think it's very good that 2 things happened;
1. McGwire did not get in - this allows a real debate on his candidacy and the other steroid users who are coming down the road without passing judgement on his eventual enshrinement either way.
2. Harold Baines got 5% of the vote. This allows the DH position to get examined with more focus as Baines himself will be up again for election.
1. McGwire did not get in - this allows a real debate on his candidacy and the other steroid users who are coming down the road without passing judgement on his eventual enshrinement either way.
2. Harold Baines got 5% of the vote. This allows the DH position to get examined with more focus as Baines himself will be up again for election.
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M
MelvinTScupper
Guest
Yeah, first ballot not necessary. If he doesn't get in at all, it's a travishamockery.
dagogrease
Footballguy
Andre Dawson was one of the best outfielders I have ever seen. He did it all, hit for power, stole bases and played an unbelievable outfield with a rocket arm. The only reason he is not in is because he played most of his career in Montreal and bad Chicago teams.
Well, there's always next year I guess.
Well, there's always next year I guess.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Belle played 10 full seasons and is IMO not a terrible candidate, putting up .295/381/1239 for career totals before having to pack it in at 33. He'll probably never even sniff the HOF, but his numbers were pretty impressive.He finished Top 5 in:MVP voting 3 timesAVG twiceSLG 4 timesOPS 3 timesRuns twiceHits twiceTotal Bases 4 timesHR 6 timesRBI 6 timesRuns Created 4 timesExtra Base Hits 6 timesIMO, his 10 year stretch was every bit as good as Rice's, except that Belle literally had no other seasons to consider while Rice had another 5-6 of stats tacked on to make his career totals higher. And Rice played in a different era when offensive numbers were nowhere near as high league wide as when Belle played.
Thank you for the fix... left Hoffman out, huh? In any case, Lee Smith should be in there!
Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Just had the same discussion here at work!
whoknew
Footballguy
There are a lot better pitchers than Jack Morris who are not in the HOF. Starting with the aforementioned Bert Blyleven.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I guess.
They forgot someone though.
They forgot someone though.
whoknew
Footballguy
Have you ever seen Rice's home/road splits?Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Home .320 AVG, .374 OBP, .546 SLG, .920 OPSAway .277 AVG, .330 OBP, .459 SLG, .789 OPSHave you ever seen Rice's home/road splits?Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Just had the same discussion here at work!
whoknew
Footballguy
Pretty huge difference. Seems he was aided quite a bit by that gigantic green wall, eh?Home .320 AVG, .374 OBP, .546 SLG, .920 OPSAway .277 AVG, .330 OBP, .459 SLG, .789 OPSHave you ever seen Rice's home/road splits?Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Kraft...
Footballguy
Belle stacks up statistically but he played in a hitters era.Murphy not so much, other than Home Runs and maybe OBP where are they equal?Ripken is one of the greatest 2-3 shortstops of all time.Gwynn is the one who -- while great -- is overrated.And if you think Rice is a shoe-in, then how do you feel about Albert Belle? Or Dale Murphy?I always thought Ripken was a little over hyped but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall. Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games. Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
dagogrease
Footballguy
Can someone explain to me how Jay Buhner gets a vote????
whoknew
Footballguy
Career OPS+Rice 128Murphy 121Belle 143Now factor in Rice's H/R splits...Belle stacks up statistically but he played in a hitters era.Murphy not so much, other than Home Runs and maybe OBP where are they equal?Ripken is one of the greatest 2-3 shortstops of all time.Gwynn is the one who -- while great -- is overrated.And if you think Rice is a shoe-in, then how do you feel about Albert Belle? Or Dale Murphy?I always thought Ripken was a little over hyped but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall. Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games. Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
I might puke. There is something I actually agree with Olberdick about.Concepcion was the best SS in MLB for an entire decade.
whoknew
Footballguy
Even if this were true (and I'm not sure what ten year period this would be), so what?
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On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
here in lies the problem. the Baseball HOF is so watered down with non-hall of fame talent, it became a mockery years ago. and i am a HUGE Tony Perez fan.Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
oso diablo
Footballguy
which decade? and how so? he was not even an average hitter.
Kraft...
Footballguy
Aren't Murphy's career OPS+ numbers boosted by 4 superior seasons? Rice was a much more consistent producer long run.Career OPS+Rice 128Murphy 121Belle 143Now factor in Rice's H/R splits...Belle stacks up statistically but he played in a hitters era.Murphy not so much, other than Home Runs and maybe OBP where are they equal?Ripken is one of the greatest 2-3 shortstops of all time.Gwynn is the one who -- while great -- is overrated.And if you think Rice is a shoe-in, then how do you feel about Albert Belle? Or Dale Murphy?I always thought Ripken was a little over hyped but he definitely deserves to be in the Hall. Gwynn without a question, might be the best pure hitter of his generation. To bad he played in San Diego, would have like to see more of his games. Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I grew up watching Rice, and IMO he was just a better player at home vs on the road. The park may have helped some, but he just hit better at home. Most of Rice's HRs were going to be out anywhere and very few were 2 feet over the fence. He hit a lot of balls from left center to center, which at Fenway is pretty deep (420 feet). Add in the 37 foot wall, and IMO the park hurt his total rather than helped it.In 2006, Fenway (which has been modified a lot in in terms of the stands since Rice played) had a park factor of: Runs 1.031, Hits 1.041, 2B 1.368, 3B 1.000, HR 0.727.Pretty huge difference. Seems he was aided quite a bit by that gigantic green wall, eh?Home .320 AVG, .374 OBP, .546 SLG, .920 OPSAway .277 AVG, .330 OBP, .459 SLG, .789 OPSHave you ever seen Rice's home/road splits?Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Players that won't be on the ballot in the future...
Code:
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4Albert Belle 19 3.5Paul O'Neill 12 2.2Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3Jose Canseco 6 1.1Tony Fernandez 4 0.7Dante Bichette 3 0.6Eric Davis 3 0.6Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4Ken Caminiti 2 0.4Jay Buhner 1 0.2Scott Brosius 0 0.0Wally Joyner 0 0.0Devon White 0 0.0Bobby Witt 0 0.0
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oso diablo
Footballguy
like who? what % of all MLB players would be ok to be enshrined?
dagogrease
Footballguy
Not sure I agree with this. I have to give it up to baseball as you literally have to be a God to get in. The NFL lets in every Tom, Mike Munchak and Harry up for election...here in lies the problem. the Baseball HOF is so watered down with non-hall of fame talent, it became a mockery years ago. and i am a HUGE Tony Perez fan.Oh and Rice should be in, compare him to Tony Perez and it a no brainer.
Men-in-Cleats
Footballguy
Smith had a long career and quietly raked in the saves but I don't ever remember him being listed amongst the most dominant closers in the game. If you don't even have a year where you were considered the best in the game, why would you sniff the HOF? It isn't a longevity award.
Kraft...
Footballguy
Dude must have the record for the slowest walk from the pen to the mound. I've also never seen anyone wear a turtle neck in 90 degree heat as much as he used to.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I certainly never thought of Smith as a lights out closer, but he did rank Top 5 in saves 11 timesand IIRC he won 3 Rolaids Relief awards.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Fielding down?
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
so what? so what?you may not know this, but i am the biggest Dave Concepcion fan and that is the "so what".having said that, i don't need any other reasons.
Eephus
Footballguy
Ron Santo is
